Copa America

[SoddyNole]

Due to public demand I thought a soccer thread would be nice addition to these boards.

Here is a nice wiki right up on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_América_Centenario

The tournament is June 3rd - 26th.



USA is coming off a 4 straight win streak and 6-1 so far in 2016

Unfortunately we get a trial by fire by having our first match tomorrow at 8 est vs Colombia the 3rd ranked team in the world (USA 31st)

This tournament is comprised of 10 members from:

CONMEBOL:

Argentina (#1 ranking)
Boliva (82)
Brazil (7)
Chile (5)
Colombia (3)
Ecuador (13)
Paraguay (44)
Peru (48)
Uruguay (9)
Venezuela (77)

and 6 teams from:

CONCACAF:

USA (31st ranking)
Mexico (16)
Costa Rica (23)
Jamaica (46)
Haiti (74)
Panama (56)


The USA is slotted for Group A:
USA
Colombia
Costa Rica
Paraguay

Group A schedule:
June 3 United States vs. Colombia Santa Clara, California
June 4 Costa Rica vs. Paraguay Orlando, Florida
June 7 United States vs. Costa Rica Chicago
June 7 Colombia vs. Paraguay Pasadena, California
June 11 United States vs. Paraguay Philadelphia
June 11 Colombia vs. Costa Rica Houston

Each group's top two teams will advance to the eight-team knockout round.

Average Soccer Power Index rank by group:

A: 22.75
B: 32.75
C: 33.5
D: 31.5

Even though our first match will be tough the path is easier out of Group A.

USA!......USA!.......USA!

I love the national pride that comes along with these events and lets hope for the best, it will not be easy.

 

[SoddyNole]

Did not realize this went to TC move to LR if needed.

 

[tennisump]

Very excited about this event. Will be interesting to see where JK lines players up and which ones he chooses.

 

[FSuMan5030]

We probably have to toughest group, but me thinks costa rica may be a little overrated and our team game will likely allow us to win our final two games and advance with 6

 

[seminole88]

Would be surprised if USA made it out of group. Despite winning, they haven't looked great, they are old, and I'm not sure Klinsmann is the man for the job.

 

[ChiefsT99]

I had no idea we were playing the Columbia University in our first match.

 

[GarnetGuy]

Does it get any slower than this time of the year?!??!???

 

[fsUTampa]

I'm pretty sure kickoff for Colombia is 9:30pm eastern.

And if we go young, we have a shot. If we go old, Jurgen might be on the hot seat prior to next round of WC qualifying.

 

[Rishi]

We probably have to toughest group, but me thinks costa rica may be a little overrated and our team game will likely allow us to win our final two games and advance with 6

Keylor Navas is the obvious key to Costa Rica. If he isn't completely on his game they have no shot. He controls every aspect of their game. He gives (and takes) his team confidence based on his play.

 

[SoddyNole]

Well somehow after going down in the first game 2-0 to Colombia we managed to come out of Group A as the leader. We will play the runner up of Group B which could be Brazil, Peru or Ecuador to be determined after they play each other tonight. There are a lot of variables on who advances out of this group and will just be easier to just wait and see:

Ecuador vs. Haiti, 6:30 p.m. EST
Brazil vs. Peru, 8:30 p.m. EST

 

[seminoleed]

That was arguably the best game I've ever seen the USMNT play, and certainly the mental toughness of the 2nd half was most impressive. This is what I like about Jurgen--he's been there, done that at the highest levels, and that mind set is what he's trying to instill in the team. IF (big if) he can do that, it'll help offset the obvious talent discrepancies the US has against other nations.

 

[fsUTampa]

It was by far the best defensive effort by a single player (Brooks) that I've ever seen for the USMNT. If he continues that, we'll have a shot against anyone.

 

[seminoleed]

And when the defense inevitably broke down, Guzan was there to clean up. He and Brooks were the stars of the night, to be sure.

 

[kc78]

Surprised that we came out leading group A. With the way Brazil wound up getting knocked out, are we better off with the match vs Ecuador or would it have been better to draw Peru? I hear the announcers claiming that Peru is the better team but the FIFA rankings have Ecuador as a much higher ranked team.

Ecuador is ranked 13th while Peru is ranked 48th. We're ranked 31st. From that ranking alone it seems we got the tougher match and Colombia winds up getting the easier match thanks to Peru's Hand of God goal.

Thoughts from those who know more?

 

[SoddyNole]

Surprised that we came out leading group A. With the way Brazil wound up getting knocked out, are we better off with the match vs Ecuador or would it have been better to draw Peru? I hear the announcers claiming that Peru is the better team but the FIFA rankings have Ecuador as a much higher ranked team.

Ecuador is ranked 13th while Peru is ranked 48th. We're ranked 31st. From that ranking alone it seems we got the tougher match and Colombia winds up getting the easier match thanks to Peru's Hand of God goal.

Thoughts from those who know more?

Speaking of which it is time for this event to get video replay. There was another match this weekend were hand ball was called where the defender had his hand and arm behind his back and he slightly turned into the ball which hit the top of his shoulder, literally almost hit him in the head. A penalty kick was given to the other team. You add that to the Peru hand of god goal, lol, and both would have easily reversed with video replay.

I don't know any details on Ecuador other than Haiti's defense had a lot of problems in this tournament and made their opponents look very good.

 

[kc78]

Speaking of which it is time for this event to get video replay. There was another match this weekend were hand ball was called where the defender had his hand and arm behind his back and he slightly turned into the ball which hit the top of his shoulder, literally almost hit him in the head. A penalty kick was given to the other team. You add that to the Peru hand of god goal, lol, and both would have easily reversed with video reply.

I don't know any details on Ecuador other than Haiti's defense had a lot of problems in this tournament and made their opponents look very good.

Agree. All goals at the very least, need to have replay in place. I'd also like to see all "Cards" have replay component, or at the very least an option like in the NFL for a coach to challenge a card. Those two could be done fairly simply without disrupting play too much. I'd love to see an option for offsides to have replay but I can't think of a way to do that and allow the game to still flow properly. The only way I can think is to allow the play to continue on an offsides for at least long enough for the current run of play to finish after which a replay could be used, but in many cases it would be far too disruptive to play (Although it could be considered on a goal that is scored).

I know that the USA has petitioned FIFA for the right to test video replay in the USL levels next year I believe and if it goes well to bring it to MLS play. Eventually I think we'll get it for all International Events like this, but its going to take a while.

 

[fsUTampa]

I would've much rather to have played Brazil or Peru than Ecuador. We played Ecuador in a friendly a few weeks ago. Beat them 1-0, but that was on a late goal in a game that we were dominated 95% of the time. If we escape Ecuador (I'm fully expecting a loss), we get Argentina in the semis. Then Mexico/Colombia winner in the final, most likely.

 

[kc78]

I don't know that I would have preferred Brazil, but I would have loved to seen Peru. I think we could have taken Peru and been the favorites. I'm expecting a loss in this game, especially with the idiot Yedlin being red carded. They have a very fast and create front four as best I can see. Yedlin and Brooks seem to be the only players with the speed to recover. I don't trust Cameron, Orozco, or Castillo (who seem to be our options to replace him) to not get destroyed in that game.

The good news, the game is in Seattle. You know the stadium will be packed and primarily a US crowd. If we're going to get a home field advantage anywhere, its going to be there.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Mexico fans...they throw crap on the field when they're mad, they throw crap on the field when theyre happy. What is it with that crowd?

 

[fsUTampa]

Mexico fans...they throw crap on the field when they're mad, they throw crap on the field when theyre happy. What is it with that crowd?

And they scream in unison a curse every time an opposing keeper hits his goal kick. Imagine if Americans yelled "F you" in 80,000 unison every time that happened...

 

[kc78]

They're probably my least favorite fanbase on the planet. Playing in Mexico is like taking your life into your hands. There's no telling what they're going to hurl at you when taking a corner kick or if you're anywhere near the stands. Its ridiculous that you have to have police in riot gear and shields protecting the players from the batteries being thrown. They need to be fined by FIFA every time it occurs and eventually have their fans banned from matches all together if they can't get them to behave.

 

[FSUdawg]

At some point moving forward, instant replay is going to be implemented. However, I do not believe it will involve the on field referees but will rather have people in a box who can signal down to the on field referees like with the goal line technology. As for what to use replay or video for:

- Goals. This can be achieved rather easily IMO because it takes some time to start play again anyhow. While play is stopped review the goal. If it is a goal then move on. if for some reason it is not a goal award a goal kick and move on.

- Cards. I don't see this happening and it could be rather time consuming. Instead they just need to review after the game and rescind cards if necessary IMO.

- Offsides. I personally think they could move to all offsides calls being from video. They can let play continue for the 15-20 seconds necessary and pull it back if an offsides is determined by video & a ref watching in the press box area. They can notify the on field refs the same way they do with goal line technology. By doing this it will free up the AR on each side to concentrate on other things which should improve the quality of officiating.

As for coaches challenges in soccer I don't like them. Soccer is not like baseball or american football where there are constant stoppages between plays. IMO all replay / video needs to happen automatically with on field officials being notified so they can call the play back.

 

[kc78]

Offsides would be tricky. Either you take it out of the hands of the onfield official all together and let the call come down from above which I don't think would be implemented or you always let an offsides play continue for a bit. I don't truly like either option. I'm not certain there's a good way to do offsides.

Cards I think would be great. I'd love to see at the very least all red cards get reviewed although an earlier yellow could have led to a red on a true yellow later on. I don't think that allowing an official from upstairs to look and call down that a card has been rescinded after play has continued would be problematic. On the next stoppage of play, they simply run over to the player and pull a new card color that means card rescinded. All cards that result in an ejection should allow for at least a minute of replay to determine before player is removed.

All goals should be reviewed. With the current goal line technology, there's no reason not to, at least at the highest levels.

All penalty kicks. If we don't review cards, at the very least penalty kicks should be reviewed to determine if they're actually a justifiable penalty. This does go in the favor of the defense as all awarded penalties get reviewed but those that aren't do not. If there's an especially egregious penalty that doesn't get called, I would like to at the very least allow a manager to demand a review at least once per game when they think one should have been allowed.

I do think there needs to be a time limit on all reviews. If its not immediately evident within 30 seconds, call on the field stands for any review.

 

[SoddyNole]

The assistant refs should be able to handle most of the offsides calls with the best angle.

I see a lot of delays when the players circle and argue with the refs in soccer. In baseball you don't see as many player/manger Billy Martin type arguments with umps like you did in the old days before video that were very time consuming and a complete distraction from the game.

With a single shot possibly determining the outcome of a game and the accuracy of the pros in kicking penalty kicks, video review should be a must.

I would also love to add an yellow card that is given due to a perceived foul that video shows no contact what so ever to be added and a yellow card issued to the person faking lol. It is not as bad as people think and it doesn't take much contact from behind when you running full speed to go sailing through the air but some of the flopping really needs to stop sooner than later.

 

[kc78]

I agree. My only reasoning on offsides is I'm still angry about a goal that was taken back from the US in South Africa that was nowhere close to being offside but was called so by the crooked ref.

 

[fsUTampa]

I would also love to add an yellow card that is given due to a perceived foul that video shows no contact what so ever to be added and a yellow card issued to the person faking lol. It is not as bad as people think and it doesn't take much contact from behind when you running full speed to go sailing through the air but some of the flopping really needs to stop sooner than later.

I really wish they would enforce the "yellow for flopping" rule. There's been a few times that it was very obvious, to the point the ref even indicated and would gesture and/or make a face. That should be an automatic yellow every time. That'll stop that bs quickly if refs would enforce it.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Messi and Muschamp...separated at birth?

 

[SoddyNole]

Messi and Muschamp...separated at birth?

HA!

The 3 goals (even though the first one was served right in front of the goal due to bouncing off one of his players faces lol) in 20 minutes last week was insane. That third goal with two defenders all over him and he simply does one step to the side bend the ball perfectly into the corner...goal simply the GOAT!

 

[rdbarks10]

Pulisic Please!

 

[fsUTampa]

Pulisic Please!

I don't think there's any question we'll see him and Nagbe vs Argentina given the card accumulation/reds.

 

[rdbarks10]

I don't think there's any question we'll see him and Nagbe vs Argentina given the card accumulation/reds.

Too bad Bradley didn't get a red card, waste having him on field.

 

[kc78]

Too bad Bradley didn't get a red card, waste having him on field.

I truly think those of you who keep screaming about Bradley truly either don't understand soccer or don't understand the US available players. Bradley has been much, much better after being moved to defensive midfielder rather than trying to play an attacking game. Furthermore, he's the only real option the US has right now. If there's any position that the US has failed to develop talent in, its central midfield. Its understandable as I think its probably the most difficult position to play in the game. Bradley is by far, the only real option we have for that position right now. I truly hope that changes over the next few years, but looking through the MLS teams there's not a single team with a US player at that position who has anyone as good as Bradley. I'm not aware of any playing outside of the US.

If there were a better option, I'm sure Klinsmann would have employed them already.

 

[rdbarks10]

I truly think those of you who keep screaming about Bradley truly either don't understand soccer or don't understand the US available players. Bradley has been much, much better after being moved to defensive midfielder rather than trying to play an attacking game. Furthermore, he's the only real option the US has right now. If there's any position that the US has failed to develop talent in, its central midfield. Its understandable as I think its probably the most difficult position to play in the game. Bradley is by far, the only real option we have for that position right now. I truly hope that changes over the next few years, but looking through the MLS teams there's not a single team with a US player at that position who has anyone as good as Bradley. I'm not aware of any playing outside of the US.

If there were a better option, I'm sure Klinsmann would have employed them already.

He's a defensive midfielder that's bad at tackling; his words no mine. That's pretty important to the position; that's like having a forward that struggles to score goals. He back passes way too much and has space but refuses to turn and carry the ball up anymore. The breakaway from the last game was cause by him choosing to back pass instead of turning and playing upfield. He runs around gets close to the guy with the ball but most of the time doesn't try to stripe the ball. He hangs out more by the back line then staying in the midfield; no other defensive/holding midfielder does this. He's not very good and he has the Captain armband.

 

[kc78]

So who would you replace him with? I don't disagree with the criticisms of him. I've just not seen anyone who can replace him. I'd like to see him and Nagbe on the field together, but I don't know that there's anyone in the US who can do the job even as good as he is, which has obvious issues. Its frustrating because the game play Klinnsmann wants to run requires someone good at that position. The US just doesn't appear to have anyone developed there. I'm hoping that Pulisic will take over that attacking role, but he's still a bit raw.

Who else would you prefer there other than Bradley?

 

[rdbarks10]

So who would you replace him with? I don't disagree with the criticisms of him. I've just not seen anyone who can replace him. I'd like to see him and Nagbe on the field together, but I don't know that there's anyone in the US who can do the job even as good as he is, which has obvious issues. Its frustrating because the game play Klinnsmann wants to run requires someone good at that position. The US just doesn't appear to have anyone developed there. I'm hoping that Pulisic will take over that attacking role, but he's still a bit raw.

Who else would you prefer there other than Bradley?

Pulisic will be a wide player and become more a winger. Nagbe should be of the first substitutes every game. I rather have Jones in there then Bradley. Beckerman could work for this tournament since it takes a lot for a foul to be called but a Jones or Beckerman as a number 6 is better then Bradley right now in this tournament.

 

[SoddyNole]

Any chance tonight? Obviously a tough draw for us and we have our work cut out. Hopefully we don't pull a Mexico.

 

[kc78]

There's always a chance, but Argentina is the #1 team for a reason. I think we will be down 1-0 at half and I hope we can just hold out to not be embarrassed in the second half as our legs and depleted squad starts to wear down. My scoreline is 2-0 Argentina. If we can go into the second half even, then I give us a shot but even then its less than 10% in my estimation.

 

[fsUTampa]

We have a chance, but I'm going in fully expecting to lose by 3 goals. If we can keep Argentina from scoring in the first 20mins, we'll start playing with more confidence. If we somehow score first, watch out...

 

[seminoleed]

I suspect we park the bus and hope for a draw, taking a chance on PKs. These are always a crap shoot.

I just hope we don't get Mexico'd.

 

[SoddyNole]

If you park the bus you better win or come close. My daughter's HS JV team was coached a guy that grew up in England. He tried that strategy vs one of the better teams in town. Talking about parents coming unglued, especially when we were down 3-0 at half lol. It was an ugly scene, very ugly.