COVID booster shot
- Thread starter Dhersh
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We have known for decades, that the immunity from actually getting infected is longer lasting than what you get from the vaccination. That of course makes sense, in that the vaccine causes a reduced reaction while the virus itself causes the full immune system reaction. Speculation that the mRNA vaccines somehow work differently is just that, speculation.
I am aware of the Kentucky study done by the CDC that states the opposite, but it stands alone.
Here is a large study published in SCIENCE:
Science | AAAS
www.science.org
“It’s a textbook example of how natural immunity is really better than vaccination,” says Charlotte Thålin, a physician and immunology researcher at Danderyd Hospital and the Karolinska Institute who studies the immune responses to SARS-CoV-2. “To my knowledge, it’s the first time [this] has really been shown in the context of COVID-19.”
"In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher."
However, we are dealing with small numbers here even with 32,000 cases because the risk of hospitalization in both groups was extremely small. I think a total of 9 hospitalizations out of that 32,000 cases and 257 infections out of that 32,000.
Here is the concluding paragraph:
For many infectious diseases, naturally acquired immunity is known to be more powerful than vaccine-induced immunity and it often lasts a lifetime. Other coronaviruses that cause the serious human diseases severe acute respiratory syndrome and Middle East respiratory syndrome trigger robust and persistent immune responses. At the same time, several other human coronaviruses, which usually cause little more than colds, are known to reinfect people regularly.
Another study:
Good news: Mild COVID-19 induces lasting antibody protection | Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis
People who have had mild illness develop antibody-producing cells that can last lifetime
medicine.wustl.edu
"Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” said senior author Ali Ellebedy, PhD, an associate professor of pathology & immunology, of medicine and of molecular microbiology. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.”
And finally, just thought I would add this journalistic piece:
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Natural immunity does not last forever necessarily. If you got Covid in March of 2020 you likely need a booster vaccination hence every single study that says natural immunity is better also saying that those with natural immunity that also got the vaccine were by far the least likely to suffer another infection.
It's not one or the other. If you've recently had Covid you're likely good for quite some time barring a new variant. If you had Covid a year ago or so data says to go get the vaccine.
Time will tell. The answer right now is most likely. But please stop linking to unreliable sources.
You didn't find anything groundbreaking in that video. Believe me. If you think you did, you haven't been paying attention. All that was is a smear campaign by a far right social media outlet.
Also why did you quote my post just to post that video it was entirely off topic.
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there are studies that extend all the way back to the origins of covid back in March, April and May 2020 where covid survivors continue to present robust antibody levels from their naturally acquired immunity. particularly their T-cell immunity.
i generally find it interesting when variants pop up with respect to natural immunity. the vaccines protect against one thing only, the spike protein. there are already mutations to the spike protein such as the E484K mutation. They haven't made their way prime time into a variant yet but the current vaccines could be rendered useless if that happens.
naturally acquired immunity on the other hand has developed a response to the entire virus, not just it's sticky landmine exterior.
i generally find it interesting when variants pop up with respect to natural immunity. the vaccines protect against one thing only, the spike protein. there are already mutations to the spike protein such as the E484K mutation. They haven't made their way prime time into a variant yet but the current vaccines could be rendered useless if that happens.
naturally acquired immunity on the other hand has developed a response to the entire virus, not just it's sticky landmine exterior.
If a video from a truth seeking investigative non-profit is classified as far right, I'll take it. It isn't my fault that a bunch of dudes at Pfizer who can't get a date, start spewing their deepest, darkest secrets after 1 drink. This tactic has been used for thousands of years.
Executives of multiple pharmaceutical companies making COVID vaccines have said that we will likely need a second "version" of the vaccine to be able to fight future variants. How long before we need one is anybody's guess. The good news for now is that vaccines showing to be initially highly effective against all VOCs and continue to do a good job of preventing serious illness and hospitalization against all VOCs even after initial efficacy wanes.
You need to do your research. Its a far right org. There were no "secrets" that were told. Like I said, its a smear campaign and people like you have been brainwashed.
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"truth seeking investigative non-profit" lol. They got caught trying to plant false stories.
Qanon also just a investigative group of freedom fighters.
"The U.S. is still averaging c lose to 2,000 COVID-19 deaths a day"
the national 7-day average peaked out at 1,717 a month ago. There has only been 4 days in total where the national total exceeded 2,000 daily deaths due to delta. the current 7-day average is 1,327 deaths and dropping quickly.
"The CDC is showing that 185.8 million people living in America are fully vaccinated, equal to about 56% of the population, a number that has remained relatively static for weeks."
CDC data also shows that 94.3% of people 65+ have had at least one shot and greater than 99% of them in the most populated areas have had at least one shot. 83.6% of those 65+ are fully vaccinated and nearly 90% of those are fully vaccinated in the most populated areas. despite those very high vaccination rates over 60% of all current covid deaths are in people 65+. the next 25% of deaths occur in the 50-64 age group that is almost as highly vaccinated.
we could also discuss that the CDC requires using a lower PCR sampling rate for vaccinated people (equal to or less than 28 cycles) vs. unvaccinated people (any cycle rate up to 50 cycles) and how that might be applicable to mortality data being collected.
the national 7-day average peaked out at 1,717 a month ago. There has only been 4 days in total where the national total exceeded 2,000 daily deaths due to delta. the current 7-day average is 1,327 deaths and dropping quickly.
"The CDC is showing that 185.8 million people living in America are fully vaccinated, equal to about 56% of the population, a number that has remained relatively static for weeks."
CDC data also shows that 94.3% of people 65+ have had at least one shot and greater than 99% of them in the most populated areas have had at least one shot. 83.6% of those 65+ are fully vaccinated and nearly 90% of those are fully vaccinated in the most populated areas. despite those very high vaccination rates over 60% of all current covid deaths are in people 65+. the next 25% of deaths occur in the 50-64 age group that is almost as highly vaccinated.
we could also discuss that the CDC requires using a lower PCR sampling rate for vaccinated people (equal to or less than 28 cycles) vs. unvaccinated people (any cycle rate up to 50 cycles) and how that might be applicable to mortality data being collected.
I find the J&J and the AstraZeneca news of that post most appealing. That is certainly some good news on both those fronts.
the Merck anti-viral pill is probably the most useful recent information although it looks like it will be horrendously priced considering the US has committed to pay $1.2B for enough to treat just 1.7 million people if it receives EUA. It is a multiple use anti-viral though and covers influenza too.
the science behind it is interesting in that it works in essentially the opposite direction as to how tamiflu etc. work. the Merck drug essentially causes the virus to mutate so rapidly within a person that the virus kills itself.
yeah it was definitely one of those "you want to give people what so it can do what? wtf?" moments when i first read about it.
how it specifically works is that exerts its antiviral action through introduction of copying errors during viral RNA replication.
Molnupiravir, an Oral Antiviral Treatment for COVID-19 - PubMed
Molnupiravir is the first oral, direct-acting antiviral shown to be highly effective at reducing nasopharyngeal SARS-CoV-2 infectious virus and viral RNA and has a favorable safety and tolerability profile.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Really...................use to see some patients die in the hospital from liver failure after drinking anti-freeze.
Another example of science being weird:
Researchers said they might have found the possible cause of lasting COVID-19 symptoms, and it might have to do with an antibody
Researchers said they might have found the possible cause of lasting COVID-19 symptoms, and it might have to do with an antibody
Is the Merck pill the one that they recently said is about 50% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID?
50% effective in reducing hospitalization and no deaths in those that had been hospitalized vs the placebo group.
the specific drug was peg-l asparaginase. it's a formulate of polyethelene glycol. she only had to take one or two courses of it.
Some numbers coming in here in North Carolina today:
A report from the NC Department of Health and Human Services that studied senior citizens statewide found that vaccines help prevent:
- 1,413,605 total cases in NC since March 2020
- Of those total cases 10,812 were reinfections (0.7%)
- Of those reinfections 200 were post-vaccination (1.8%)
A report from the NC Department of Health and Human Services that studied senior citizens statewide found that vaccines help prevent:
- 11,000 new cases in NC
- 1,600 new deaths in NC
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Reports of eventual reinfection by SARS-CoV-2 are mounting, but they have not reached proportions within well surveilled cohorts that would enable a quantitative epidemiological study. As a pioneering estimate, our findings are consistent with the mounting reports of eventual reinfection by SARS-CoV-2, and indicate that reinfection after natural recovery from COVID-19 will become increasingly common as the pandemic progresses.
Source: The durability of immunity against reinfection by SARS-CoV-2: a comparative evolutionary study published 10/1/21 in The Lancet
Anyone who lives in India's filth and congestion necessarily has some SERIOUS antibodies.
@AllNoles
Our analyses show that both the waning antibody profiles and the probabilities of infection at a given antibody level are heterogeneous among human-infecting coronaviruses. Quantifying both of these parameters by ancestral and descendent states analysis enabled us to infer a timescale to likely reinfection for each coronavirus. Reinfection by SARS-CoV-2 under endemic conditions would likely occur between 3 and 63 months after peak antibody response, with a median of 16 months. This protection is of less than half the duration revealed for the endemic coronaviruses circulating among humans.
Our estimated times to reinfection are consistent with the low numbers of validated cases of reinfection. However, our results caution that reinfection will become increasingly common as pandemic disease transitions into endemic disease. Our estimated timing of the waning of immunity can facilitate quantitative analyses of all policy decision making about individuals who have recovered from COVID-19 and who might be viewed as temporarily immune to reinfection. In particular, our estimate argues strongly against the claim that a long-standing resolution of the epidemic could arise due to herd immunity from natural infection or that mitigation of the long-term risks of morbidity and mortality can be achieved without vaccination. Relying on herd immunity without widespread vaccination jeopardises millions of lives, entailing high rates of reinfection, morbidity, and death. In areas with low vaccination, our data-driven analysis reinforces the need for continued safety practices such as social distancing, proper indoor ventilation, and mask wearing to avoid reinfection as pandemic conditions continue. These estimates of the likely time course of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection also have implications for travel restrictions, decisions regarding how students obtain their education, as well as the opening and closing of economic sectors in response to predictive models of the epidemic. Epidemiological modelling, which has served a crucial role in public health policy and disease management in the time of COVID-19, has been restricted in time scale and vague in long-term implications because of the absence of any previous rigorous base-case estimate of the time of waning of immunity for SARS-CoV-2. Further modelling in light of our results is warranted.
...
Undue public confidence in the long-term durability of immunity following natural infection by SARS-CoV-2 has been shown to contribute to vaccine hesitancy, perhaps because of a false equivalence with the long-term immunity after natural recovery from evolutionarily divergent viruses causing diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella. By contrast, numerous respiratory viruses such as influenza, human rhinoviruses, or coronaviruses can overcome the immunity conferred by previous infections by evolving new variants in the protein domains most frequently surveilled and targeted by the human immune system. Just over a year into the COVID-19 pandemic, novel SARS-CoV-2 variants that can vary in severity of infection and evoke differential immune system responses and that can thwart the durability of immunity started arising. Such novel variants probably play a similar evolutionary role in the persistence of lower-severity, endemic human coronaviruses. Mitigation of the potential evolution of immune-evading SARS-CoV-2 variants in the near-future might depend crucially on a rapid global deployment of vaccination, which can induce higher immunogenicity than natural infection.
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You are measuring the wrong things and not being objective. Look at deaths per case and how it has changed from March 2020 until now. You shouldn't be so misleading with your data. Additionally, compare the efficacy of natural immunity to that if vaccinated immunity and the hospitalization rate for both post infection.
And reinfection after natural immunity compares how? Why do you keep dodging?
All this time spent on trials justifying a vaccine that only lasts 6 months? $$ may have been better spent on Ivermectin and natural immunity.
Ivermectin?….oh boy…let me just say I know someone unvaccinated who was prescribed that by some quack doctor after contracting covid. They deteriorated rapidly and it was of no help at all. It was not until they received monoclonal antibodies that they slowly improved.
Ok I'll play. Dodging what? In order for me to dodge something there has to be something to dodge.
You have no room to talk about objectivity when you aren't able to acknowledge the bias of your own sources. That said I'm not "measuring" anything. What I posted is data nothing more nothing less. And it's very straightforward and not "misleading" at all considering, you know, no point was being made. Now if you want to have a reasonable discussion about something specific then shoot. I'm completely lost as to what your objective is here.
I wasn't suggesting that an effective trial would have passed, but that the trial would have been worth the money if it was know the end result would be a vaccine that only lasted 6 months.
The vaccines are highly effective at keeping people from becoming seriously I'll and out of the hospital after 6 months, even though protection against infection wanes. That doesn't mean they have stopped working. More time is needed for studies to show how long vaccines last.
The natural immunity has the potential to last much longer than the vaccination. Don't jab people for the sake of jabbing people or because it is easier to track and trace. Facts should be shared 100% objective and compare natural and triggered immunity. Additionally, the vaccines with mRNA technology haven't been in circulation long enough to assess if there are any long term negative effects. For some the risks do not outweigh the benefits at this time. God designed us to survive with natural immunity and instinct to endure as a species, because we are created in his image.
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