FSU Team Vaccination Rate
- Thread starter rshapley
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Yes... it is, that's how variants are formed. Viruses mutate at a faster rate depending on the number of infections. Less infections means less/slower mutations.
It’s kind of funny. Theoretically a significant vax breakthrough is scarier for mutation risk. Mutations are purely random. They don’t change on purpose. But most mutations are bad/deadly. The super rare “beneficial” mutations (which are only so in terms of environment) survive because they make it easier to survive. That means with less effective vaccine more and more of the virus is mutating to survive the vaccines, which then pass along and survive at a higher rate because they are beating the vaccine. While the vaccine tends to moderate the impact of Covid, the more vaccine resisters that make it will then pose more and more risk.
Correct. Natural immunity.
Again, targeted vaccination combined with the healthy population obtaining herd immunity through natural immunity (which has shown to be far superior to the vaccine) was always the course that should have been taken.
The crazy amounts of mutations/variations we are seeing have nothing to do with the unvaccinated and everything to do with the mass population vaccine rollout. That is what is driving this. I highly recommend reading up on antibody dependent enhancement. You never see surges like this for these types of viruses in summer time.
I generally don't like to get into these conversations but this mass vaccination has been a disaster and there is no reason to be forcing the vaccine on players or any young people for that matter.
Maybe you can link to some of the research instead of saying “look it up.” Your opinion seems to be in the minority of researchers and experts.
It's fair to say that natural immunization against the virus is more effective while you have the antibodies, but that experiment was already tried in Sweden with massive and fatal concequences. So unless we are ok with more people dying than the 620,000 (and more to come) in the US and incredible stress on already overwhelmed hospitals, I think we should encourage vaccination.
Antibodies are replaced by T cell memory. Your body never forgets how to fight an opponent it’s already faced. Weakened immune systems can cause problems tho. There’s also a whopping 0 cardiovascular viruses that have been “cured” by a vaccine.
Yes true I agree also but, no person with a terminal illness should be turned away because there's no beds due to unvaccinated people getting sick. It's happened I've seen it personally. It's your choice but, don't beat down hospital doors when you do get it.
Two Different Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) Risks for SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies - PubMed
COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) disease severity and stages varies from asymptomatic, mild flu-like symptoms, moderate, severe, critical, and chronic disease. COVID-19 disease progression include lymphopenia, elevated proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines, accumulation of macrophages and neutrophils in...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ADE is something they have seen in attempts to create coronavirus vaccines in animals.
Funny how you haven't asked for any links to people you agree with? These aren't my opinions FYI.
And the approach I have stated that I believe should have been take towards this virus is also not my own idea. It was taken from epidemiologists and immunological from places like Harvard, Stanford and Oxford.
Covid experts: there is another way
Three eminent epidemiologists met in Massachusetts to plan a better response to the pandemic
unherd.com
And why in the hell is it my responsibility to educate you? That's why I say do your own research. Always people who provide zero articles or data demanding you present yours.
While I agree that taking the vaccine is a personal choice and their effectiveness in preventing the latest strains is less effective, I think the fact that taking the vaccine is a no brainer because it would exempt players from the menace of contact tracing and mandatory quarantines. IMHO.
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Here's a simple way to think of it:
- Vaccine protects from not getting hospitalized, not from actually getting the virus
- Vaccine does NOT protect from spreading the virus (never has)
- With original strain, it lessened the spread immensely, but not entirely
- With delta variant, which is a much stronger strain, it doesn't protect against spread but again, protects from hospitalization (which is the most important)
- If vaccination rates were 100% a year ago, the likelihood of delta existing is very low
The more a virus jumps from body to body, the more, severe, variants emerge.
That's why a lot of folks are pushing for the vaccine. The world doesn't want to be caught with their pants down when a stronger-than-delta strain emerges. Then we really have problems.
Therefore to answer your original question of "if the vaccine is so effective, than why are the unvaccinated endangering them" ... that's b/c an unvaccinated person gives the virus the opportunity to morph into something stronger -- then it can spread from that same individual. The vaccine diminishes its strength off the bat; meaning the virus will likely never morph into something stronger from a vaccinated individual. However if more dangerous versions emerge, then the vaccine will at some point be ineffective.
I'm open to being corrected, so let me know.
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Delta variant is definitely more contagious but is also quite a bit less lethal than the ancestral strain.
ADE would suggest that the mass vaccination program is causing the rapid mutations.
Disappointing? What’s disappointing is they’re forcing this shot on young, healthy kids that have no problems fighting this thing off with their immune systems. Shameful.
Two Different Antibody-Dependent Enhancement (ADE) Risks for SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies - PubMed
COVID-19 (SARS-CoV-2) disease severity and stages varies from asymptomatic, mild flu-like symptoms, moderate, severe, critical, and chronic disease. COVID-19 disease progression include lymphopenia, elevated proinflammatory cytokines and chemokines, accumulation of macrophages and neutrophils in...
ADE is something they have seen in attempts to create coronavirus vaccines in animals.
Funny how you haven't asked for any links to people you agree with? These aren't my opinions FYI.
And the approach I have stated that I believe should have been take towards this virus is also not my own idea. It was taken from epidemiologists and immunological from places like Harvard, Stanford and Oxford.
Covid experts: there is another way
Three eminent epidemiologists met in Massachusetts to plan a better response to the pandemic
And why in the hell is it my responsibility to educate you? That's why I say do your own research. Always people who provide zero articles or data demanding you present yours.
To your first link.
So far there have been no verified reports of ADE occurring as a result of COVID-19 vaccines.
....
Most COVID-19 vaccines target the spike protein in the virus in a defined way that is low risk. New vaccine technologies like mRNA are safer and designed in more scientifically targeted ways than older vaccines. Overwhelmingly, vaccinated people are showing protection against severe COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations. This would likely not happen if ADE were occurring, because it is an acute and very serious condition that would cause significant medical alarm.
Are COVID-19 vaccines causing antibody-dependent enhancement?
May 25, 2021 by Health Desk – As of May 2021, there is no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines are leading to antibody-dependent enhancement.
health-desk.org
To your second link, that is an opinion piece about lifting lockdowns from October 2020 and has nothing to do with ADE.
Going to need some science for that suggestion.
Furthermore, Marc Siegel, M.D. a Clinical Professor of Medicine and a practicing internist at NYU Langone Medical Center indicated a couple days ago that there is absolutely no evidence that vaccinated people can transmit the disease.
Shhhh. The "science" community knows more than your factsYou are aware
You must not realize there were 8 NCST players who tested positive for Covid.
Four had been vaccinated
8 Wolfpack baseball players tested positive for COVID-19 Delta variant, NC State officials say
NC State administrators explain what really happened--how many players tested positive, how many were vaccinated, etc.--before the team got kicked out of the College World Series.abc11.com
Now do influenza.... Which we completely eradicated with out lifting ng a finger... The CDC just flipped a switch
The strain it’s putting on hospital workers is troubling as well. Nurses are simply quitting. Many medical professionals are facing burnout. My teammate’s wife works in an ER and comes home crying every day, saying she needs to quit. And, she wasn’t doing that during any previous wave. This is all anecdotal, but it’s hard not to imagine our healthcare system is going to struggle in the wake of it.
My second link was to a completely different point about the approach we have taken to Covid. Nothing to do with ADE, so I would go back and read deeper.To your first link.
So far there have been no verified reports of ADE occurring as a result of COVID-19 vaccines.
....
Most COVID-19 vaccines target the spike protein in the virus in a defined way that is low risk. New vaccine technologies like mRNA are safer and designed in more scientifically targeted ways than older vaccines. Overwhelmingly, vaccinated people are showing protection against severe COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations. This would likely not happen if ADE were occurring, because it is an acute and very serious condition that would cause significant medical alarm.
Are COVID-19 vaccines causing antibody-dependent enhancement?
May 25, 2021 by Health Desk – As of May 2021, there is no evidence to suggest that COVID-19 vaccines are leading to antibody-dependent enhancement.
To your second link, that is an opinion piece about lifting lockdowns from October 2020 and has nothing to do with ADE.
And you are literally watching ADE lol. Viruses don't undergo this rapid of mutations.
How Many Strains of the Coronavirus Are There? About New Variants
Several new strains of the coronavirus have been identified. These variants may spread faster and some may also impact immunity and vaccine effectiveness.
www.healthline.com
Well Marc Siegal should have his license revoked lol. They absolutely can. Look at the numbers in Iceland. It is a statistical impossibility that the surge they had could have happened without vaccinated people passing it. The country I believe had a 93% vaccination rate but don't quote me on that.
The Worst Outbreaks in U.S. History
Learn about the biggest outbreaks in United States history and how we’ve overcome them.
www.healthline.com
Article from 2 months ago by a journalist with a few quotes from different doctors. Many of those quotes are failing in real time. I love the arrogance though.How Many Strains of the Coronavirus Are There? About New Variants
Several new strains of the coronavirus have been identified. These variants may spread faster and some may also impact immunity and vaccine effectiveness.
This is an op-ed. Masks have been shown repeatedly to be ineffective any numerous trials to slowing the spread of influenza. But now covid came and influenza disappeared and they want to credit it to mask mandates.The Worst Outbreaks in U.S. History
Learn about the biggest outbreaks in United States history and how we’ve overcome them.
Social distancing absolutely. Self quarantine absolutely. But the mask reasoning is not backed by the years of data we have on masks.
Regardless of anyone’s belief about vaccine efficacy, the point is that the 85% threshold is set by the ACC. Especially this year when we are projected to go 6-6, a single forfeit could be disastrous for our season, and could have ramifications in the years to come. If it’s a home game, thousands of small businesses could be impacted and the city of Tallahassee would lose millions of dollars. The players would also lose a whole game of film tape that will affect draft stock. If you’re a scholarship athlete, it’s your duty to your school and to your teammates to get vaccinated.
At least we can agree that the CDC didn't magically "eradicate" it. There is science as to the dramatic drop.
You are welcome to leave the discussion at any time. I don't see any board rules being violated. Yet. Dot and Ira have both taken part in the thread already.
I mean I do think the CDC is trash and has become politicized and lost its way. And I do think the flu numbers are way off and drastically under reported. That said. There are legitimate reasons why we should expect the flu numbers to be lower. But probably (definitely lol) not as low as they are.
An increasing number of ecological studies have also provided persuasive evidence that universal mandatory mask wearing policies have been associated with reductions in the number or rate of infections and deaths (Table). These studies did not distinguish the types of masks (cloth, surgical, or N95) used in the community. This association is strengthened because, in many cases, other mitigation strategies (eg, school and workplace closures, recommendations for social distancing, hand hygiene) had already been deployed before enactment of mask wearing policies, after which the reductions were observed. A study that examined changes in growth rates for infections in 15 states and the District of Columbia before and after mask mandates showed that rates were growing before the mandates were enacted and slowed significantly after, with greater benefit the longer the mandates had been in place.7
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2
This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...
jamanetwork.com
Let's see--We knocked out smallpox and polio with vaccinations and we almost entirely eliminated these horrible diseases. So are you saying vaccines don't work. The medical experts and data say vaccine do work. Nearly 99% of those dying from Covid are not vaccinated! Vaccinated individuals who contract Covid rarely experience serious effects (though with millions of doses some will suffer adverse effects and a few will even die but one's odds of dying from the vaccine are infinitely smaller than of dying of Covid without the vaccine. Please look at the big picture and recognize that well over 99% of MDs agree that it works and all medical associations around the world say that it works and that it is critical if we are to save hundreds of thousands of lives. Read widely from numerous news networks (Fox, CNN, ect.). Reading only a few politically motivated sources can and has led many to make choices that are killing many.
Getting to the point: It doesn't matter what you or anyone thinks about the vaccine and whether you should or shouldn't get it. What matters is what is going to be legislated by the NCAA with regard to covid. You may not like what they come up with. You may think it is stupid and wrong. You may think it is evil. BUT IT IS WHAT THE TEAM HAS TO LIVE WITH! Right, wrong or otherwise, it is almost certain that if a team does not meet the 85% threshold that it will have to undergo much, much more testing than if it does. Increased testing will increase the likelihood of positive results. Those results--especially if the player is unvaccinated--will result in having to sit out a good deal of time. And the unvaccinated player will have to sit out longer than the vaccinated. And the end result could be a forfeited game. What if that forfeited game is one of our three gimme games? IF the team approaches 100% vaccination, they may not be tested at all...only if a player gets sick. Bottom line: it is best for the team if a player gets vaccinated. You can argue it may be best for the team, but not the player, but....it still means the unvaccinated player is hurting Florida State.
I think masks will be in place, at least seasonally much like in Asia, from here on out.An increasing number of ecological studies have also provided persuasive evidence that universal mandatory mask wearing policies have been associated with reductions in the number or rate of infections and deaths (Table). These studies did not distinguish the types of masks (cloth, surgical, or N95) used in the community. This association is strengthened because, in many cases, other mitigation strategies (eg, school and workplace closures, recommendations for social distancing, hand hygiene) had already been deployed before enactment of mask wearing policies, after which the reductions were observed. A study that examined changes in growth rates for infections in 15 states and the District of Columbia before and after mask mandates showed that rates were growing before the mandates were enacted and slowed significantly after, with greater benefit the longer the mandates had been in place.7
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2
This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...
Lol, from your article/study:An increasing number of ecological studies have also provided persuasive evidence that universal mandatory mask wearing policies have been associated with reductions in the number or rate of infections and deaths (Table). These studies did not distinguish the types of masks (cloth, surgical, or N95) used in the community. This association is strengthened because, in many cases, other mitigation strategies (eg, school and workplace closures, recommendations for social distancing, hand hygiene) had already been deployed before enactment of mask wearing policies, after which the reductions were observed. A study that examined changes in growth rates for infections in 15 states and the District of Columbia before and after mask mandates showed that rates were growing before the mandates were enacted and slowed significantly after, with greater benefit the longer the mandates had been in place.7
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2
This JAMA Insights CDC review summarizes accumulating evidence that mask wearing reduces spread of SARS-CoV-2 infection and that universal mandatory mask wearing policies reduce infections and deaths and emphasizes face masks are one component of pandemic control measures, including physical...
"Correction: This article was corrected on February 22, 2021, to correct a typo indicating that there were solid relevant data to support community mask wearing to reduce the spread of respiratory infections before the pandemic. This typo has been corrected."
So who is contracting the virus, and filling up Florida's hospitals, and dying, in record/near record numbers lately? I thought I read it was like 95%+ UNVAXXED Floridians! If true, I believe that's good enough for me.
Cool, do you want to address your argument that was debunked?
Specifically
This association is strengthened because, in many cases, other mitigation strategies (eg, school and workplace closures, recommendations for social distancing, hand hygiene) had already been deployed before enactment of mask wearing policies, after which the reductions were observed. A study that examined changes in growth rates for infections in 15 states and the District of Columbia before and after mask mandates showed that rates were growing before the mandates were enacted and slowed significantly after, with greater benefit the longer the mandates had been in place.7
I see a bunch of warchant fact checkers. Y'all about as reliable as facebook....
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