Great - another shooting: 12 dead so far

[FSUTribe76]

The two shooters are Syed and his fiancée (maybe). Syed was a county employee, got into an argument, left and came back to shoot the place up.

Well, they obviously had been planning this. It's pretty unlikely someone spontaneously has prepacked go bags with tons of ammunition, tactical armor, assault rifles, IEDs, and leaves your child in your grandparents care. They've obviously been planning this for awhile.

 

[FSUTribe76]

Plus they apparently Go-Proed the assault obviously intending to upload the video.

Another tidbit, apparently the reason for the discrepancy between whether he was married or not is that Syed and his baby mama were married in Saudi Arabia and never filed the official paperwork in America to prove the marriage. The baby mama is supposedly a Saudi native who he met online.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Well, they obviously had been planning this. It's pretty unlikely someone spontaneously has prepacked go bags with tons of ammunition, tactical armor, assault rifles, IEDs, and leaves your child in your grandparents care. They've obviously been planning this for awhile.

Or planning something else or something bigger anyway. Then he gets into a dispute today and figures eh, f it, let's do this now (and it's a Christmas party too, bonus!).

 

[FSUTribe76]

Or planning something else or something bigger anyway. Then he gets into a dispute today and figures eh, f it, let's do this now (and it's a Christmas party too, bonus!).

He apparently missed the earlier group photo and other early events and then showed up late. Just my SWAG, but I doubt he got into an argument and decided lets go assault style. He probably was casing out the place in normal clothes (which ISIS did in Paris), got "caught" by someone and got into an argument with whomever it was (supervisor or whatever) and then went back to finish carrying out the plan.

 

[FSUTribe76]

So a couple of other tidbits. Today is the religious day for mourning martyrs in the Shia sect of Islam. But ISIS is Sunni so if the Isis twitters accounts taking credit for the attack are correct, then it's probably just coincidence. It will be interesting to see which sect of Islam they belonged to.

So the answer to my above question was he was Sunni. Pretty obvious when he brought back a Saudi wife who infected him with Wahhabism and ISIS, but his dating profile said as much.

That and....

"In a short narrative, he described himself as hailing from a “religios [sic] but modern family of 4, 2 girls 2 boys.”

“I work for county as health, safety and envorimental [sic] inspector. Enjoy working on vintage and modern cars, read religios (sic) books, enjoy eating out sometimes travel and just hang out in back yard doing target pratice with younger sister and friends."

http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/03/s...religious-books-and-shooting-target-practice/

 

[Nolez4Life29]

FoxNews pushing terrorism, CNN pushing workplace violence.

Cable news is beyond pathetic.

 

[YogiNole]

FoxNews pushing terrorism, CNN pushing workplace violence.

Cable news is beyond pathetic.

Rampant speculation on this thread too.

 

[goldmom]

Please expand on the rampant speculation. I'm here to learn...

 

[West Duval Nole]

Rampant speculation on this thread too.

Since the individuals that committed the crime are dead, all anyone can do is speculate. Unless they left a note on their motive or confided in someone on their motive that chooses to share it. The media will lean towards speculating on the political agenda they want to promote, as will the political candidates.

Dems and left leaning will say it's workplace violence and need more gun control. Repubs and right leaning will say terrorist attack and thus we shouldn't allow more refugees in, need to secure borders or spy on mosques. And none of the proposals they have probably would have stopped or prevented this tragedy.

 

[Nolez4Life29]

Since the individuals that committed the crime are dead, all anyone can do is speculate. Unless they left a note on their motive or confided in someone on their motive that chooses to share it. The media will lean towards speculating on the political agenda they want to promote, as will the political candidates.

Dems and left leaning will say it's workplace violence and need more gun control. Repubs and right leaning will say terrorist attack and thus we shouldn't allow more refugees in, need to secure borders or spy on mosques. And none of the proposals they have probably would have stopped or prevented this tragedy.

Pretty much this ^^^^^^

 

[NoleFan2U]

At least they took their 6 month old to Grandma's before shooting up the place.

 

[MIKE_G]

At least they took their 6 month old to Grandma's before shooting up the place.

Even terrorists need reliable daycare.

 

[YogiNole]

While it could be some kind of Islamic Jihad terrorism thing, it could just as well be an episode of Muslim goes postal meets Bonnie and Clyde.
Anyone know if he acquired those guns legally or did he go the blackmarket route?

 

[DFSNOLE]

While it could be some kind of Islamic Jihad terrorism thing, it could just as well be an episode of Muslim goes postal meets Bonnie and Clyde.
Anyone know if he acquired those guns legally or did he go the blackmarket route?

Read where all the guns were legally purchased.

 

[noleclone2]

Since the individuals that committed the crime are dead, all anyone can do is speculate. Unless they left a note on their motive or confided in someone on their motive that chooses to share it. The media will lean towards speculating on the political agenda they want to promote, as will the political candidates.

Dems and left leaning will say it's workplace violence and need more gun control. Repubs and right leaning will say terrorist attack and thus we shouldn't allow more refugees in, need to secure borders or spy on mosques. And none of the proposals they have probably would have stopped or prevented this tragedy.

Whelp I am a Dem and left leaning but its seems way more like Islamic based terror attack then workplace violence. I think it was just an easy starting point where they knew they could get to a lot of packed people in a room. The only question in my mind is how much help, if any, did they get from others both domestically and oversees for planning and coordinating.

It will be interesting to see if this type of an attack finally causes a shift on making these weapons harder to buy (so far two are known to be legally purchased). It would be nice if people on the FBI's consolidated terror watch list were at least given a harder time to buy guns.

A complicated issue for sure.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Read where all the guns were legally purchased.

Here is what I read. So a law may still have been broken depending on where the private sale took place.

Federal authorities say that the two assault rifles and two handguns used in the San Bernardino massacre were all purchased legally in the United States — two of them by someone who's now under investigation.

Meredith Davis of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives says investigators are now working to make a connection to the last legal purchaser.

She says all four guns were bought four years ago but she's not saying whether they were purchased out of state or how and when they got into the hands of the two shooters.

Davis says California requires paperwork when guns change hands privately but many other states don't.

She also says the rifles involved were .223-caliber — powerful enough to pierce the standard protective vest worn by police officers, and some types of ammo can even plow through walls.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Whelp I am a Dem and left leaning but its seems way more like Islamic based terror attack then workplace violence. I think it was just an easy starting point where they knew they could get to a lot of packed people in a room

Seems like it could be either or maybe a little combination of both. As it appears the guy at least worked with these people. It sounds like he had a disagreement then came back and decided to do this. It wasn't just some random place where he didn't know the people and knew there would be no security. Perhaps he was planning to do it at a more random location with a higher body count some other day or time. The argument set him off and he went ahead and just used the work argument to go ahead and kill 2 birds with one stone so to speak. Workplace violence to kill the specific individual or individuals that he had a disagreement with and then others as a terrorist act that perhaps they were going to do anyways.

 

[goldmom]

Let's take politics out of this and just look at the reality of the situation. As more facts come out over the next few days, I believe it will become evident that it was a planned attack of a copycat nature and that the target was a soft easy one; the timing about some holiday party meant that there would be a fairly large group gathered in one spot, and the attack could NOT be spontaneous. One simply does not gather that sort of munitions, weapons, body equipment, or anything else on the spur of the moment.

Take out the emotion and see it for what it was. And prepare for more of the same unless some sort of firm action of a preventative nature is undertaken. Someone considers us their sworn enemy and we need to wake up and decide what to do about it.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

So interesting how when an anti-abortion terrorist attacks a PP facility, no one posts or cares.
But when it's someone with an exotic name, 3 pages.

Ahh life in the LR echo chamber.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Take out the emotion and see it for what it was. And prepare for more of the same unless some sort of firm action of a preventative nature is undertaken. Someone considers us their sworn enemy and we need to wake up and decide what to do about it.

Can we do the same to prevent other shootings? Sandy Hook was pre-planned. Charleston was pre-planned, Columbine, Aurora, and Planned Parenthood were pre-planned.

It' absolutely ridiculous that this is only on the prevention radar b/c the names are exotic rather than Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Kliebold, etc...

The double standard is quite clear here.

 

[LesClaypool]

I must've imagined it but I thought there was, at one point, a Planned Parenthood Massacre thread in here. I don't see it now though.

Anyway, both events were acts of terror. Domestic, religious, international, Muslim, right-wing...I don't care. Terrorism is terrorism.

 

[BrianNole09]

Can we do the same to prevent other shootings? Sandy Hook was pre-planned. Charleston was pre-planned, Columbine, Aurora, and Planned Parenthood were pre-planned.

It' absolutely ridiculous that this is only on the prevention radar b/c the names are exotic rather than Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Kliebold, etc...

The double standard is quite clear here.

Dylan Roof - Product of a Single Mother
Adam Lanza - Product of a Single Mother

Just saying, Bacardi

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I must've imagined it but I thought there was, at one point, a Planned Parenthood Massacre thread in here. I don't see it now though.

Anyway, both events were acts of terror. Domestic, religious, international, Muslim, right-wing...I don't care. Terrorism is terrorism.

It got deleted because someone intentionally posted something inflammatory to get the discussion shut down and thread locked. Essentially they didn't want the topic discussed, wonder why, and had it taken down.

 

[West Duval Nole]

we need to wake up and decide what to do about it.

I don't disagree.

But what is the correct solution? Most proposals are easily defeated with logic on how it can be gotten around because after all if someone is willing to murder would also be willing to break any other laws put on the books.

The way I see it is you would either need to :

Have a complete ban of all firearms and strict penalty (basically death penalty or life in prison) for anyone caught possessing, making, selling or using. Of course you may as well GPS all their guns as well in put in a biometrics mechanism within the gun that only allows the owner to fire them. This way they can not be stolen and used. The problem with this is the government and police that are authorized to have them would have even more power than they do now and could exterminate people if put in charge by an evil person (which doesn't have to be at the highest level. It could be a police chief or even lower level that gets several officers to listen to his orders). I would not be in favor of this. But if you are going to go gun control to actually resolve things, that would be it.

Do something similar to the Swiss. Every citizen (I think the Swiss just do males. No need to discriminate here. Women and Men can do it.) at a certain age (Swiss do it at 20. That might be the right age. Although I guess you could do it at 18 upon completion of high school.) receive a psych evaluation and firearms training if they pass the psych evaluation and be issued a firearm. Will it prevent or stop all killings? No. But it should most certainly reduce the casualty count if anyone tries a mass shooting. Additionally, there would be no gun free zones, so there is no location someone could pick that would be all sitting ducks. Most people will freak out at such a proposal, saying it is the wild wild west or do we really want to live like that? But what is their solution?

The other things like trying to limit magazine size, specific weapons, etc are just feel good measures that will accomplish and prevent nothing. But a politicina can say we did something or we tried. It doesn't take long to change a magazine and in this instance a 2 person team can alternate when one is changing magazines to cover the 2 seconds it might take them to change magazines. Not to mention the criminals willing to murder someone are not going to bother following these laws anyways.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Dylan Roof - Product of a Single Mother
Adam Lanza - Product of a Single Mother

Just saying, Bacardi

Haha, I'll compliment you on your dedication to this cause.

I think we could have an interesting separate thread on how to (reasonably) discourage single parenthood and/or more adequately prepare and support single mothers to raise children.

 

[BrianNole09]

Haha, I'll compliment you on your dedication to this cause.

I think we could have an interesting separate thread on how to (reasonably) discourage single parenthood and/or more adequately prepare and support single mothers to raise children.

I already solved the single motherhood issue with my "war" on single mothers, bro.

I remember the Oregon community college shooter was a single Mother offspring as well. I'm sure there are more.

 

[goldmom]

So interesting how when an anti-abortion terrorist attacks a PP facility, no one posts or cares.
But when it's someone with an exotic name, 3 pages.

Ahh life in the LR echo chamber.

We have yet to learn that the crazy person who lived in some shelter in the woods is just crazy or an anti-abortion terrorist, but nice attempt. By the way, I care. Ease up on the broad brush there please.

When a Pete named Smith travels to Saudi Arabia, brings home some online "bride" and drops the baby at Granny's knowing they'll never see their apparently casual spawn again, let me know, mmkay? But I bet they're "anti-abortion". Who else pops out a human life and then cares so little for that life that they knowingly walk away to leave it an orphan.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I already solved the single motherhood issue with my "war" on single mothers, bro.

I remember the Oregon community college shooter was a single Mother offspring as well. I'm sure there are more.

That's why i threw the word "reasonably" in there.

 

[goldmom]

Can we do the same to prevent other shootings? Sandy Hook was pre-planned. Charleston was pre-planned, Columbine, Aurora, and Planned Parenthood were pre-planned.

It' absolutely ridiculous that this is only on the prevention radar b/c the names are exotic rather than Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Kliebold, etc...

The double standard is quite clear here.

These are mentally ill people who don't want to destroy anything that is not Islamic and prevents establishment of a caliphate. They had little in common besides their illnesses and were not directed by anything other than the internal misfirings of their brains.
*Stop it!

 

[ReliableOstrich]

We have yet to learn that the crazy person who lived in some shelter in the woods is just crazy or an anti-abortion terrorist, but nice attempt. By the way, I care. Ease up on the broad brush there please.

When a Pete named Smith travels to Saudi Arabia, brings home some online "bride" and drops the baby at Granny's knowing they'll never see their apparently casual spawn again, let me know, mmkay? But I bet they're "anti-abortion". Who else pops out a human life and then cares so little for that life that they knowingly walk away to leave it an orphan.

So hypocritical. You're happy to wait and see for impetus for a guy who said "no more baby parts" after shooting up a Planned Parenthood facility, but will quickly judge the motives of someone because they have a wife from a Muslim country.

Your bias is blinding you. Why not ignore that millions of Americans find wives abroad, including nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India, China, Iran, etc...

 

[LesClaypool]

Both were indisputable acts of terror, committed by terrorists.

Their actions are what make them terrorists. Their motivation, while important and worth ascertaining, is secondary.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

These are mentally ill people who don't want to destroy anything that is not Islamic and prevents establishment of a caliphate. They had little in common besides their illnesses and were not directed by anything other than the internal misfirings of their brains.

So Dylan and Eric were a mentally ill tag team when they shot up a high school, but Syed and Tashfeen were out to assist in the creation of a caliphate?

 

[goldmom]

I submit that perhaps I would not be alone in bias blindness....if "millions" find wives abroad, then it's most disconcerting to learn that American men are so threatened they have to find some "Cherry Blossom" on a site that advertises submissive women.

 

[noleclone2]

Can we do the same to prevent other shootings? Sandy Hook was pre-planned. Charleston was pre-planned, Columbine, Aurora, and Planned Parenthood were pre-planned.

It' absolutely ridiculous that this is only on the prevention radar b/c the names are exotic rather than Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Dylan Kliebold, etc...

The double standard is quite clear here.

I think all of us need to pump the brakes until they figure out if these were two mentally unwell lonewolf /duowolfs and like all those names you list OR if they were in fact in connection with and logistically prepped and assisted by a terrorist group . Those two scenarios are not at all the same in terms of prevention, though both are really, really hard to prevent in all reality. Right now it seems one part Columbine and one part Terrorist. They only way to tell in the days to come will be if they had help. If I was a betting man, I would bet they had some help planning and were in contact with folks overseas based on timing and methodology used.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Both were indisputable acts of terror, committed by terrorists.

Their actions are what make them terrorists. Their motivation, while important and worth ascertaining, is secondary.

My qualm is that only one makes people say "we've got to put a stop to this".
I didn't see these posts when Adam Lanza killed 30something 7 year olds.

 

[goldmom]

I suppose any woman who posts a different view point is dangerous...unless she's a foreign wife that "millions" have married. Wow, did we just find out something new...

 

[LesClaypool]

I don't agree w/Robert Walker. I don't know anyone who thinks we DON'T need to do anything about domestic terrorists like the ones you've mentioned in this thread. What to do is up for debate, but I don't think anyone thinks we need to do nothing.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I submit that perhaps I would not be alone in bias blindness....if "millions" find wives abroad, then it's most disconcerting to learn that American men are so threatened they have to find some "Cherry Blossom" on a site that advertises submissive women.

Stop to actually do some research or talk to people before making assumptions.

Look at your local universities, many of the foreign students there (male or female) will return to their home country to find a spouse. Visit your local doctor, many of them moved here after graduating medical school elsewhere and during/after residency in the US, they went home, married and got an immigration visa for their spouse.

Nearly everyone of my Indian and Pakistani friends' parents did this. It's not some absurd concept of a website for submissive women. Stop watching so many movies.

 

[timenole]

I already solved the single motherhood issue with my "war" on single mothers, bro.

I remember the Oregon community college shooter was a single Mother offspring as well. I'm sure there are more.

I say screw all this rah-rah over Syrian refugees ... I want my state/Governor Scott to not allow single moms refuge in Florida. I've had ENOUGH.

Oh wait, they're often strippers...

 

[West Duval Nole]

Bacardi and Goldmom, do you have actual proposals to prevent or reduce these tragedies. If so, let's hear them.