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Interesting video on masks

Best proof of no mask value is what I’m seeing now. Sitting in urgent care (when you’re old sometimes stuff just starts hurting really bad and you don’t even know why, this time it’s the damn foot). Waiting patiently. Wearing my mask as expected.

Guy comes in with his son. Maybe 13-14. “My boys been coughing for four days, bad headache, and fever over 100. Hed been exposed AO we need a covid test.”

Kids been in here coughing for a half hour. With his mask below his nose. The entire time. He’s exposed. He has symptoms. He thinks he has it. But he doesn’t wear a mask right.

That’s the norm. Not exception. Especially with kids.
 
100% right.
My grandson is in Kindergarden and only some in his class wear masks, but they're cloth, which are pretty much useless. Comes into his parents room this morning at 3:30 AM all stopped up and warm to touch and tells Mom and Dad he doesn't feel good - which he never does.
No fever so they sent him to school. 🙄 I hope he doesn't have anything but a cold, but no one in his class has reported a case of COVID - yet.
 
100% right.
My grandson is in Kindergarden and only some in his class wear masks, but they're cloth, which are pretty much useless. Comes into his parents room this morning at 3:30 AM all stopped up and warm to touch and tells Mom and Dad he doesn't feel good - which he never does.
No fever so they sent him to school. 🙄 I hope he doesn't have anything but a cold, but no one in his class has reported a case of COVID - yet.
What's the testing policy like at that particular school?
 
Tell us about him if you can. I was wondering what his background was and knew that a Leon County person might know.
He’s a good guy and a good judge. But he’s very liberal and while I have not seen him in a few years, he’s one who will see the path to allowing stuff like this. Judges are people. They do all they can to avoid bias and he’s as objective as he can be. But when a novel issue like this comes up in a panicked time in a blue area, it’s not likely judges are going to rule the other way.

I am still trying to find the order though. I really don’t understand the issues or the ruling based on articles.
 
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Don't know...its St. John's County which has one of the highest vax rates in the state.
Yet close to 100% of grade school children are not vaxed. I think it is a mistake not to test children at schools, multiple times per week. It is the best resource we have to stop the spread in that age group, at the moment. The vaccine initiative is great but it doesn't do anything for the kiddos right now.
 
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I suppose we can expect a ruling in the next few weeks on the governor's decision to impose fines on those requiring proof of vaccination.
 
100% right.
My grandson is in Kindergarden and only some in his class wear masks, but they're cloth, which are pretty much useless. Comes into his parents room this morning at 3:30 AM all stopped up and warm to touch and tells Mom and Dad he doesn't feel good - which he never does.
No fever so they sent him to school. 🙄 I hope he doesn't have anything but a cold, but no one in his class has reported a case of COVID - yet.
my niece (2 1/2) just had RSV which is very COVID like in its symptoms. RSV is also running rampant in Florida (and across the US) too right now. my dumb ass sister thought it would be fine to take her around my parents though since it wasn't COVID. considering my dad has COPD this wasn't a good thing.
 
Haha, I was in Vegas July 2020 and two of my buddies had those masks with the valve to make it easier to breathe. I could not believe they counted as masks at all. Those were later "banned" but it shows you how illogical a lot of this is.
masks with outlet valves are banned because they do a good job of protecting the wearer but offers no protection to the public
 
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my niece (2 1/2) just had RSV which is very COVID like in its symptoms. RSV is also running rampant in Florida (and across the US) too right now. my dumb ass sister thought it would be fine to take her around my parents though since it wasn't COVID. considering my dad has COPD this wasn't a good thing.
Isn't RSV like a cold on steroids? I told my son that it could be what my grandson has.
The first few weeks of school are brutal for catching stuff anyway. All those little germies just hanging out over the summer ready to pounce on a new host.
 
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Isn't RSV like a cold on steroids? I told my son that it could be what my grandson has.
The first few weeks of school are brutal for catching stuff anyway. All those little germies just hanging out over the summer ready to pounce on a new host.
it is for most but it can be very deadly to the very young (newborn through 3 months) and to the elderly.
 
Isn't RSV like a cold on steroids? I told my son that it could be what my grandson has.
The first few weeks of school are brutal for catching stuff anyway. All those little germies just hanging out over the summer ready to pounce on a new host.
Rest assured many RSV cases are being called Covid.
 
Under 10% effective per the results, which they then ignore saying that it’s really higher.

If you think your kid is at risk of serious harm from covid and you send them to school with a mask that provides that little protection, you’re crazy.
 
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Isn't RSV like a cold on steroids? I told my son that it could be what my grandson has.
The first few weeks of school are brutal for catching stuff anyway. All those little germies just hanging out over the summer ready to pounce on a new host.
I read an article about RSV. There is a susceptible age group for the virus. Because so many schools were closed last year all the kids that would have caught it last year are catching this year along with the ones that would ordinarily catch it this year. That is the reason that it is so rampant this year. I think you are right that it is like a cold on steroids.
 
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“I think a big error would be to read this study and to say, ‘Oh, masks can only prevent 10 percent of symptomatic infections,’ ” Abaluck said. The number would probably be several times higher if masking were universal, he said.
 
I know he said that. He provided data. Then he speculated. The data does not show masks being very useful.

Masks are not inherently useful and more than that no one uses them right anyway.
 
Rest assured many RSV cases are being called Covid.
Think about how what you stated above sounds. Diagnosed RSV is way up. It does not make sense that RSV would be misdiagnosed as Covid. In fact it would make more sense that Covid is being misdiagnosed as RSV considering that RSV cases are higher then normal. Neither is the case. In addition the PCR test that is administered for Covid is considered on of the most accurate tests around.
 
Think about how what you stated above sounds. Diagnosed RSV is way up. It does not make sense that RSV would be misdiagnosed as Covid. In fact it would make more sense that Covid is being misdiagnosed as RSV considering that RSV cases are higher then normal. Neither is the case. In addition the PCR test that is administered for Covid is considered on of the most accurate tests around.
Right. Because every Covid case is from an actual verified test right? Every suspected Covid case is tested? Every RSV case is Covid tested?
 
Think about how what you stated above sounds. Diagnosed RSV is way up. It does not make sense that RSV would be misdiagnosed as Covid. In fact it would make more sense that Covid is being misdiagnosed as RSV considering that RSV cases are higher then normal. Neither is the case. In addition the PCR test that is administered for Covid is considered on of the most accurate tests around.
there's a test for both RSV, and obviously for COVID. it's possible to be infected with both simultaneously.

the only problem that could occur in recording is that by definition a COVID positive includes those with COVID like illness even when a COVID positive test is not available. i have no idea whatsoever as to what percentage, if any, that would make up though.

when my niece was diagnosed with RSV her pediatrician tested her only for RSV since in the doctor's opinion the symptoms presented were classic RSV.
 
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Right. Because every Covid case is from an actual verified test right? Every suspected Covid case is tested? Every RSV case is Covid tested?
You are not paying attention. RSV cases are up. That means more are being diagnosed then normal. There probably is very little misdiagnosis going on but if there were deductive reasoning would lead you believe that Covid is being misdiagnosed as RSV. As far as I know all Covid cases are test verified. I work in a company of about 400 employees. There have been approximately 150 cases of Covid and all have been verified by a test.
 
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You are not paying attention. RSV cases are up. That means more are being diagnosed then normal. There probably is very little misdiagnosis going on but if there were deductive reasoning would lead you believe that Covid is being misdiagnosed as RSV. As far as I know all Covid cases are test verified. I work in a company of about 400 employees. There have been approximately 150 cases of Covid and all have been verified by a test.
it has been acknowledged that kids can be admitted for RSV and be treated for that and pop a COVID positive while being treated. in this instance they will be recorded as both RSV and COVID cases although the RSV is primarily what they are being treated for. the same can happen in the opposite direction too. depending on the child's age, RSV is the more severe illness unless the child develops MIS-C as a result of COVID.

pediatricians routinely dismiss that RSV and COVID can be misdiagnosed even from symptoms alone.
 
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Rather than edit above, I wanted to add this. Having looked at more on this, they came up with around 11% for surgical masks and around 5% for cloth ones. How is that a success? If the vaccines we used were only 5-11% effective, we would have no vaccine.
we wouldn't have one even if the vaccine was 50% effective. that is the threshold.
 
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we wouldn't have one even if the vaccine was 50% effective. that is the threshold.
Is there really a legal threshold? I thought I've seen vaccines with an efficacy rated lower than 50%, but perhaps they became that way over time?
 
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I had a family member with Covid like symptoms. Went in for a test. Negative. Positive for RSV. At least kids are being tested for both if they have Covid like symptoms.
 
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Ah it seems that was for COVID vaccines specifically? I thought you were saying it was a blanket requirement for vaccines, but I don't believe that is the case.
yeah for the COVID vaccines since they are the subject matter. I do believe that a similar holds true for most vaccines as an FDA requirement but I would have to research that - no black and white knowledge on it.
 
Isn't RSV like a cold on steroids? I told my son that it could be what my grandson has.
The first few weeks of school are brutal for catching stuff anyway. All those little germies just hanging out over the summer ready to pounce on a new host.
Your term germmies reminded me that German sausage jokes are the wurst.
Thank you.
 
Table. Studies of the Effect of Mask Wearing on SARS-CoV-2 Infection Riska
View LargeDownload
Studies of the Effect of Mask Wearing on SARS-CoV-2 Infection Riska
Here are some studies done on masks. These may be not be perfect they are actual studies.
These are observation studies, some web based, some self reporting, some better than those. Observation studies are the lowest level of "scientific" studies and generally can't provide causation. That means you can't separate mask wearing from other mitigation efforts and natural decay in the community. The spread charted looks like serial bell curves, with an upside and downside for the spread. No attempt was done to place the time period of the study onto the bell curve of the spread, so no way to separate out natural decay of the spread. The fact that the CDC still is reporting the Hair Salon "study" and the Kansas study as proof demonstrates how badly they want people to wear masks. Both these studies are laughably bad. The USS Roosevelt study was "self reporting" on an aircraft carrier.
What is excluded are 50 years of studies on viral respiratory spread, many of which are controlled random trials (RCTs) which indicate mask wearing have no statistical significance. Example of these were a 2016 study Macintyre et al. and a 2010 study Canini et al. which showed no improvement in source control (wearing masks benefits others). There are multiple studies Lawson et al (2010) that demonstrates that hand hygiene is effective and when done in concert with masks provide no further mitigation. A CDC funded study Cowling et al 2009, found that hands only group did better than the hands plus mask group, but not statistically significant in a large multi-variate study. Summarizing the CDC funded study, Canini writes that “no additional benefit was observed when facemask [use] was added to hand hygiene by comparison with hand hygiene alone.”

There has been one RCT study looking at masking and Covid spread, the Danish study; Bundgaard 2020. The study found that 1.8 percent of those in the mask group and 2.1 percent of those in the control group became infected with Covid-19 within a month, with this 0.3-point difference not being statistically significant.

Just listing a bunch of observation studies isn't proof of anything. Certainly doesn't overturn 50 years of studies on the topic. And by not listing studies that both a higher level of scientific evidence and providing evidence against your public stance, the CDC proves it is more about propaganda than science.
 
These are observation studies, some web based, some self reporting, some better than those. Observation studies are the lowest level of "scientific" studies and generally can't provide causation. That means you can't separate mask wearing from other mitigation efforts and natural decay in the community. The spread charted looks like serial bell curves, with an upside and downside for the spread. No attempt was done to place the time period of the study onto the bell curve of the spread, so no way to separate out natural decay of the spread. The fact that the CDC still is reporting the Hair Salon "study" and the Kansas study as proof demonstrates how badly they want people to wear masks. Both these studies are laughably bad. The USS Roosevelt study was "self reporting" on an aircraft carrier.
What is excluded are 50 years of studies on viral respiratory spread, many of which are controlled random trials (RCTs) which indicate mask wearing have no statistical significance. Example of these were a 2016 study Macintyre et al. and a 2010 study Canini et al. which showed no improvement in source control (wearing masks benefits others). There are multiple studies Lawson et al (2010) that demonstrates that hand hygiene is effective and when done in concert with masks provide no further mitigation. A CDC funded study Cowling et al 2009, found that hands only group did better than the hands plus mask group, but not statistically significant in a large multi-variate study. Summarizing the CDC funded study, Canini writes that “no additional benefit was observed when facemask [use] was added to hand hygiene by comparison with hand hygiene alone.”

There has been one RCT study looking at masking and Covid spread, the Danish study; Bundgaard 2020. The study found that 1.8 percent of those in the mask group and 2.1 percent of those in the control group became infected with Covid-19 within a month, with this 0.3-point difference not being statistically significant.

Just listing a bunch of observation studies isn't proof of anything. Certainly doesn't overturn 50 years of studies on the topic. And by not listing studies that both a higher level of scientific evidence and providing evidence against your public stance, the CDC proves it is more about propaganda than science.
I found these studies in a medical journal. My point was that the video as evidence was farcical. These studies are far superior then one guy in Canada making a silly video. If you have better studies that masks are ineffective please share them. I have not seen any that also did not have problems.
 
These are observation studies, some web based, some self reporting, some better than those. Observation studies are the lowest level of "scientific" studies and generally can't provide causation. That means you can't separate mask wearing from other mitigation efforts and natural decay in the community. The spread charted looks like serial bell curves, with an upside and downside for the spread. No attempt was done to place the time period of the study onto the bell curve of the spread, so no way to separate out natural decay of the spread. The fact that the CDC still is reporting the Hair Salon "study" and the Kansas study as proof demonstrates how badly they want people to wear masks. Both these studies are laughably bad. The USS Roosevelt study was "self reporting" on an aircraft carrier.
What is excluded are 50 years of studies on viral respiratory spread, many of which are controlled random trials (RCTs) which indicate mask wearing have no statistical significance. Example of these were a 2016 study Macintyre et al. and a 2010 study Canini et al. which showed no improvement in source control (wearing masks benefits others). There are multiple studies Lawson et al (2010) that demonstrates that hand hygiene is effective and when done in concert with masks provide no further mitigation. A CDC funded study Cowling et al 2009, found that hands only group did better than the hands plus mask group, but not statistically significant in a large multi-variate study. Summarizing the CDC funded study, Canini writes that “no additional benefit was observed when facemask [use] was added to hand hygiene by comparison with hand hygiene alone.”

There has been one RCT study looking at masking and Covid spread, the Danish study; Bundgaard 2020. The study found that 1.8 percent of those in the mask group and 2.1 percent of those in the control group became infected with Covid-19 within a month, with this 0.3-point difference not being statistically significant.

Just listing a bunch of observation studies isn't proof of anything. Certainly doesn't overturn 50 years of studies on the topic. And by not listing studies that both a higher level of scientific evidence and providing evidence against your public stance, the CDC proves it is more about propaganda than science.
These Studies can also be found on the CDC website and are used evidence that masks are effective.
 
These Studies can also be found on the CDC website and are used evidence that masks are effective.
Sorry, the list is of observation studies, but it is incomplete leaving out other observation studies that did not find what they wanted them to find and it doesn't list RCT studies. These RCT studies demonstrate that masks don't mitigate. Don't know what you are trying to do here, but ignored the whole post which listed several of them. I even put a quote in there for you from a researcher that did a couple of those studies for the CDC in 2009-2011? Also you don't deal with the fact that cohort studies (observational) can't adjudicate causation. This is all smoke and mirrors done for political reasons by public health officials using ignorant media folks.
And it is one of the reasons we have so many vaccination wary folks who haven't vaccinated, the one item that can really mitigate the viral spread. Folks feel it and think if they aren't be truthful about masks, then they tune out about vaccinations. They changed their minds about masks without a single shred of new RCT science (RCT studies for decades had demonstrated masks don't work), they made up the 6 feet distancing (science has demonstrated no difference from 3 feet and 6 feet), they put Covid + patients and nursing home residents in with Covid- folks, they ignored science that said 20 minutes of close contact is needed to spread, they ignored the fact that being outside is almost a zero risk of spread and then they expect everyone to just believe them now about the vaccination?
 
Sorry, the list is of observation studies, but it is incomplete leaving out other observation studies that did not find what they wanted them to find and it doesn't list RCT studies. These RCT studies demonstrate that masks don't mitigate. Don't know what you are trying to do here, but ignored the whole post which listed several of them. I even put a quote in there for you from a researcher that did a couple of those studies for the CDC in 2009-2011? Also you don't deal with the fact that cohort studies (observational) can't adjudicatend mirrors done for political reasons by public health officials using ignorant media folks.
And it is one of the reasons we have so many vaccination wary folks who haven't vaccinated, the one item that can really mitigate the viral spread. Folks feel it and think if they aren't be truthful about masks, then they tune out about vaccinations. They changed their minds about masks without a single shred of new RCT science (RCT studies for decades had demonstrated masks don't work), they made up the 6 feet distancing (science has demonstrated no difference from 3 feet and 6 feet), they put Covid + patients and nursing home residents in with Covid- folks, they ignored science that said 20 minutes of close contact is needed to spread, they ignored the fact that being outside is almost a zero risk of spread and then they expect everyone to just believe them now about the vaccination?
I say this respectfully but your studies suck more then mine do. Do masks work at preventing disease to people you are in frequent close contact with? No they do not. That is what one study measured. If you have Covid it is unlikely a mask is going to keep you from giving it to your wife. The Danish study measured if a mask could prevent the wearer from getting Covid. That has never been a belief. The mask is supposed to mitigate the spread of the disease by the wearer not the other way around. I will take the ones I posted as more reliable then the ones that you posted. I did not read all the studies but the bulk are measuring whether a mask protects the wearer. The proponents of mask use have never made that claim.
 
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I say this respectfully but your studies suck more then mine do. Do masks work at preventing disease to people you are in frequent close contact with? No they do not. That is what one study measured. If you have Covid it is unlikely a mask is going to keep you from giving it to your wife. The Danish study measured if a mask could prevent the wearer from getting Covid. That has never been a belief. The mask is supposed to mitigate the spread of the disease by the wearer not the other way around. I will take the ones I posted as more reliable then the ones that you posted. I did not read all the studies but the bulk are measuring whether a mask protects the wearer. The proponents of mask use have never made that claim.
No. Read my post. There were 2 RCT studies listed that tested source control (2010 & 2017). Source control is the wearer spreading the virus. And you don’t deal with the inability of cohort studies to demonstrate causation. Straw man arguments dont fool anyone.
 
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