That’s a good article. Fair. I think it comes down to what we saw from the FDA panel that signed off on boosters. They admitted there really wasn’t a good basis, but they had a gut feeling they’d be good. That’s kind of scary.
Interesting video on masks
- Thread starter AllNoles
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If one shot cant hurt then why not two or three just like masks. I think it might be ok. Very scientific.
From the FDA.
If worn properly, a surgical mask is meant to help block large-particle droplets, splashes, sprays, or splatter that may contain germs (viruses and bacteria), keeping it from reaching your mouth and nose. Surgical masks may also help reduce exposure of your saliva and respiratory secretions to others.
While a surgical mask may be effective in blocking splashes and large-particle droplets, a face mask, by design, it does not filter or block very small particles in the air that may be transmitted by coughs, sneezes, or certain medical procedures. Surgical masks also do not provide complete protection from germs and other contaminants because of the loose fit between the surface of the mask and your face.
Surgical masks are not intended to be used more than once. If your surgical mask is damaged or soiled, or if breathing through the mask becomes difficult, you should remove it, discard it safely, and replace it with a new one. To safely discard your surgical mask, place it in a plastic bag and put it in the trash. Wash your hands after handling the used mask.
Correct. Surgical masks are designed to block droplets that contain bacteria and viruses.
There are alot of mays and coulds in there. May be effective and it does not filter small particles are key words there.
Not to mention proper use. And replacement regularly. And the limited contact.
Are you suggesting that surgeons should not be required to wear surgical masks in the operating room?
No I'm suggesting that surgical masks are not effective at stopping the spread of viruses.
They aren't effective at preventing the spread of viruses that are not contained in droplets. They are effective at containing the spread of viruses that are contained in droplets and with coughs and sneezes there are droplets so it lowers the amount of spread.
There are studies out there that show both sides but they all seem inconclusive. Seems the virus spread with or without the masks in most cases. Like I said before I think the masks make people feel safe and that's fine. Will it stop someone from getting sick? There is no way to know for sure.
I'm not sure what we're arguing about here. Masks help slow the spread if everyone did it but a lot of people are done complying or weren't going to anyhow so masks mandates are pretty pointless if you aren't going to enforce it. In a surgical setting they should 100% be used by anyone in the OR.
Lol no they don’t. Not meaningfully. Even studies trying to support community mask use show no statistical difference or at most a tiny one. They’re worthless. If you think you need people wearing masks to keep you safe, you really should be staying isolated.
You can’t have a valid statistical study in a commmunity when you have a large portion not complying to begin with it or not being consistent. It’s like saying masks don’t work bc they didn’t reduce spread in my office when 80% of the people in my office never wore a mask to begin with. The first big study they did on this acknowledged that they had no mechanism to know if the mask group even complied.
Masks blocks large percentage of droplets. Even if individual particles can still get through. That’s a fact and reduces spread. Whether it’s enough reduction to make mandatory masks mandates needed are a different discussion.
The whole point of my surgeon friend was that surgical masks are useless for preventing the spread of Covid. That's not what the masks are designed for, and that's not what they do. Also, the CDC has been saying for more than a year that Covid is mostly spread by aerosol particles, not by droplets.
If you read the article I linked, you may note that hand washing appears to be somewhat helpful, while mask-wearing appears to negate some of the advantage of hand washing. This may be part of the reason that no one has recommended mask wearing in the last 100 years to spread disease, and the CDC and NIH told Americans in the first month or to NOT to wear a mask because "It doesn't help, and may actually help spread the disease."
I really look forward to history's take on this and I hope I live long enough to read objective writing and reporting on the issue.
I’m not arguing otherwise and I’m not for mask mandates but these mask mandate studies are inherently flawed because they assume mask wearing being complied with even though that rarely happens. Even pro mask people still sit in a restaurant with their mask off. Sit in their own office with no mask on. Only way to really know is to monitor people 24/7 and that’s never going to happen but regardless it’s clear in a general population masks do little to nothing on their own with Covid bc of how easily it spreads.
You’re right. While I hate the rules the only place I ever was that seems to care was Vegas. They had signs everywhere on how to wear them right and the enforced wearing them right. I hated it but I felt more like we disagreed but they were at least consistent.
Perhaps. But we're still waiting for the studies that show masks work. If people are being forced to wear masks, shouldn't there be clear, research-based evidence presented? Is it really enough to say, "Well, maybe this will help, so you must do this"? My view is that if we have numerous, carefully done studies, including randomized clinical trials, showing that masks don't work, should they at least publicize widely similar research showing that masks do work, before mandating, fining, jailing, or closing businesses?
That's up to the government officials. They're likely on the side of well if we won't have a clear answer lets play it safe and require wearing masks just in case.
Also, you have to remember, especially early on a lot of people were dying around the world. They aren't going to say hey guys we're not going to make anyone do anything they don't want to while we wait on years of studies on this. If Covid hypothetically started killing 25% of those infected and the government was waiting on months to years of studies to mandate social distancing, masks, etc. they were would have tracked down and killed in the streets. They're going to do whatever suggests it might slow the spread. Frankly, it's what they should do IMO. If evidence starts mounting that regulations are not impacting it weeks to months later then maybe you remove them.
You ever try wearing a facemask of any type while playing a sporting activity or running around at recess like they are making children do?
Were you ever a teenage dealing with acne and having it compounded by mask wearing (or is mask-nee not a thing)?
You ever watch grown men on a construction site in high 90 degree weather wearing a mask performing physical work and struggling to get fresh air. Try it once and then say they do no harm?
Folks who wore masks in their day to day live previously did so during periodic times when dictated by risk. Masks were never intended to be worn for 8-hour stretches of time per day. No one has ever tested a person (child or adult) for 8-hour days for 19 months straight to determine if it causes harm or not.
Stating "proper medical masks do not cause harm" is insincere and just incorrect.
GO NOLES!!!
I wear a mask for about 10 hours a day, including during times of intense physical exertion. What's your point? If you are calling acne harmful then this conversation is over lol.
I thought masks didn't stop virus particles from going through so are useless. They can't stop particles but are stopping oxygen molecules?
Wearing a mask constantly being uncomfortable is not the same as causing harm.
It’s all I need. I’m miserable wearing one for ten minutes. I hate them. So y’all may just want to stay away from me.
To a teenager; they would rather die than have acne? Did you not see my preface? Also, after 10-hours a day, how many masks do you go through? Certainly a sweat soaked mask does not do a great job of pandemic prevention.
GO NOLES!!!
Well I'm not sure who you are trying to convince. I don't like wearing a mask. But I'm an adult and I wear a mask when asked to. But these minor things that people are claiming are harmful and "caused by wearing a mask" are nonsense.
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Pops... I think you are confusing me with someone else. I've never said the masks can't stop droplets. I said they can be harmful. You asserting they can't be harmful is nonsensical. I've painted a handful of specific scenarios where they can be. I do not believe that anyone argues with below (cherry picked from WHO related article):
- By making breathing difficult, wearing a mask while being active may exacerbate the existing symptom.
- Sweat may also make a mask wet, further hindering breathing and encouraging the growth of microorganisms
- Exposure to microorganisms could trigger an infection that has nothing to do with the coronavirus.
- Masks have little to no effect at warding off viruses when damp
Not trying to convince anyone. I have pre-teen / teen and am stating observed real life sentiment to this daily mask wearing from a father's perspective. It is cruel to make my 5th / 7th graders exercise with a mask on, but they do, on a daily basis.
I am also an adult and will wear a mask when decorum demands it. Otherwise, I do not, as they are unconformable and are not worn by anyone they way that they are intended to. Regularly, folks pull their masks down to communicate and often lean in because they are muffled and can not be understood through a mask. It's comical almost.
Back in March of 2020 Fauci gave the advise on masking which is real, it causes more harm than good.
GO NOLES!!!
Ohhh I hate wearing them for more than 10-20 minutes as well. Especially if it's hot outside. However, just pointing out being uncomfortable isn't the same as it causing physical harm.
The masks don't stop the flow of oxygen so how do they make it hard to breathe?
Numbers 2-3 are solved by simply changing masks or washing them daily.
Again, I am talking about during exercise, so maybe there is a misunderstanding. You denying that masks trap moisture latent air in a confined space in front of your nose and mouth is mind boggling. Try it for a sustained period of time and then report back. Thanks in advance Pops.
GO NOLES!!!
Phobia is the simple answer. People may feel confined and may freak out. But that is a mental disorder not harm caused by a mask.
I'm not denying that breath can cause the build up of moisture. However, moisture does not lead to harm unless you're suggesting that these viruses, bacteria, germs are growing in a matter of minutes to hours leading to infection.
Let's say you expel 4 times the amount of water during exercise than normal breathing. You and @Dhersh both believe breathing in this amount of moisture (especially when your body needs oxygen) is OK, especially when you are breathing harder trying to obtain more oxygen? Am I reading you both right? I'm assuming neither of you are Olympic class athletes where you may want to train with a mask to assist in lung development because of the strain they put on you.
GO NOLES!!!
I would say you are not reading me right. I don't think wearing a mask causes harm under most circumstances and choosing special conditions to apply all the time to make a point is not a fair argument to make on your part.
My point is that masks mandates regardless of situation can be harmful..
I've emphasized a couple of harmful ones here in this thread. I believe your statement above somewhat agrees there can be harmful conditions... so thanks for that.
Next week my county votes again and hopefully they will at minimum allow my kids to take a mask off at recess and in gym... I think it is the humane thing to do.
GO NOLES!!!
University of Fla came out with a statement that masks are dangerous and at least two diseases can be contacted from them . Don’t ask which it was a couple of weeks ago. Epoch times for conservatives that may want news from a source other than the mainstream media.
So you believe what the CDC puts out? How about Fauci, think he had lied about gain of function and the NIH’s funding? Believe what you want. Smallest virus are around 10 microns and the larger ones up to 60 microns, while the Best surgical masks have pores at 80 microns. If you think that will stop the virus transmission wear your mask. Just don’t be that guy riding his bike with his mask on…..
Mask science which goes back over a generation has never been solid in any direction. Most think it is unlikely any mitigation of spread occurs. There is a pre-print from a large study in Pakistan that demonstrates large decrease in spread. Looks to be well done, but had subjects wearing masks in their homes during delta spread.
This is a layup to refute. Most of the virus is carried in water particles. The mask is intended to mitigate the risk. That means to make it less. Put a new mask on and wear it for an hour. The mask at the end will contain more moisture then when you put it on. Therefore if there was virus in the the water you were expelling, some of it would be caught in the mask. That means less virus in the air to infect others. That is a mitigation of the spread of the virus. You do not need studies to figure this out. If you have close contact with an infected individual for a prolonged period of time it probably is useless to expect a mask to protect you, but if you walk by someone in the grocery store who is infected and wearing a mask it just might. Micron size is mostly meaningless because very little of virus is floating around without being encased in water droplets.
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