Wow!!! U are a brave soul to say this. The regulars on here are gonna out you as a Gator Troll in a conspiracy to create Google material so potential QB recruits will flip their commit to UF.
Mariota Much Better Than Jameis
- Thread starter alwaysgr8fsu
- Start date
Considered the oline of the Titans, why Mariota is out tomorrow? Good lord, the Miami dude took a complete cheap shot on Mariota, an not one Titan o-line protected him. The Titans o-line might be worse than the Bucs. Lewan acts like a tough guy, gets a million penalties a game, talks in the locker room, but when his QB gets a low hit that could have easily end his seaons, if not worse, he does nothing? The Titans o-line is piss poor.
Winston looked very good today. TB's defense let them blow a nice lead but, Jameis had great numbers and his 40 yard TD to Evans was a dime and better then any pass Mariota has thrown thus far. If TB stays committed to building a team starting at OL around Jameis, I strongly believe he will succeed.
Well, I am not suggesting any of us should be NFL GMs, but I think reasonable points are brought up. The Titans franchise is a mess, and the Bucs historically are a mess. I think both can be good QBs, but both need a lot of help, and right now, neither (and I watch the titans far more than the Bucs, so I speak more to them), have any type of structure to help them.
I'll just leave this here...
Jameis also has two big downfield WR's, and a consistent running game that he can run play action off of. Not saying Mariota can't improve in this regard, because he can, but have you seen the Titans receiving group compared to the Bucs? Justin Hunter (who should be a downfield threat) has sucked for 3 years and will be lucky to be in the league next year, and DGB has potential, but he still has a lot to learn. Those are really their only downfield threats. Marcus overall rating is higher than Jameis though, so this doesn't really prove any sort of point.
Meh, Evans missed the first two games completely (and most of preseason) with an injury, and still doesn't look to be 100%. Jackson missed most of the game two weeks ago & was inactive this past weekend. Their #3 receiver also got hurt two weeks ago & is out for the year, AND their starting TE has not played a down yet this season.
What success Winston has had this season has certainly not been a result of great play by his receiving corps.
Evans and Jackson are the two most targeted guys in Tampa's offense. They might not be 100% but I guarantee not 100% is still far better than Justin Hunter and DGB. Evans has 7 catches at 20+ yards. He is one of the best down field threats in the game, and Jackson has 6. Tampa's group is set up for big plays down the field, the Titans group simply isn't since Justin Hunter has never developed into a quality player.
I clearly said that Mariota needs to get better in this regard, I quite clearly said that. But, If you don't think that WR's like Evans and Jackson are helpful to QBs then I am not sure what to tell you. Tampa picked Evans #7 overall in the 2014 draft for a reason, because he is a difference maker at the position. His rookie year, before Winston obviously, he had 20 receptions of over 20 yards, and 4 over 40 yards. He is an established deep threat. Jackson is an established vet who has been a quality player for years, and also an established deep threat. You honestly don't think these types of players make a difference? You honestly think Winston's #s would look as good throwing to Justin Hunter and Green-Beckham? You don't think Mariota's #s would look better throwing to Evans and Jackson? And again, I by no means said Mariota is great in this area, but if you can't see that his offense is not set up near as well as Winston's in throwing deep balls then I really I guess we will just agree to disagree.
I don't think they would be much better, maybe a few passes here or there. DGB not knowing routes and Hunter dropping the ball aren't going to change with a different QB. I guarantee Mariota's #s would look better than they are now throwing down the field to Jackson and Evans though. Honestly, you cannot possibly argue that having 2 established down field threats is meaningless when having this discussion. Again, Mariota needs to get better in this regard, no one is denying that. No one is even saying he is better than Winston with this aspect of the passing game. But no one would argue that 2 big, established, downfield WRs isn't a huge advantage when throwing it down the field, and no one would argue that the Titans receivers are anywhere near as good as the Bucs downfield guys.
Agreed. WR's obviously have some role but the stats are overwhelming, and it's not like we didn't already see this pattern in college. Both o-lines are bad and it does take some help form that unit to throw the deep ball, so obviously Winsotn is doing something that Mariota isn't.
The line is a whole other issue. The Bucs have allowed 14 sacks, the Titans 28. The Titans o-line is probably the worst in the league to be honest.
They both have bad o-lines. The sack number isn't a great indicator, because the Bucs hold when they get beat. The Bucs have the most o-line penalties in the league. The pass-blocking for the Titans is slightly worse, but it's much closer than the sack count. Taylor Lewan has given up five sacks, but he grades out pretty well.
I am not suggesting Tampa's line is good, but the Titans has to be the worst in the league. Lewan has some potential, but he is a penalty machine as well, but he is the only guy on their line worth anything. Poutasi, their RT, might honestly be the worst RT I have ever seen. Their owner, actually said that when she was trying to decide to get rid of Whisenhunt or not, that she actually considered just having them bench Mariota the rest of the year to avoid injury. THat is how bad their line is, that upper management almost considered forcing their coaching staff to bench their QB, not because he is playing poorly, but because the line is so terrible they want to protect their investment.
He's also playing poorly, has a history of knee injuries, and holds the ball too long.
Titans fans have decided it's all on Whisenhunt. It's not.
In his first game Mariota had tons of single reads, and the offense looked unlike anything they'd run in the preseason. They couldn't do that forever. Mariota hasn't shown signs of improvement game to game. Now he's injured. I actually think he could be a really good NFL QB, but I think he ends up an injury bust. The NFL is about durability, and I don't think he has it.
It is absolutely on Whisenhunt. And he isnt playing poorly, and I would argue that he has a habit of holding on the to ball too long. His stats are every bit as good, if not better than Jameis, and you might disagree, but I think Jameis has a better supporting cast around him. Whisenhunt has a reputation of not making adjustments. It is easy to look at Whisenhunt going to a SB with AZ and thinking he is a good coach. But that team also had Warner, Fitzgerald, Boldin, and a much better line than he has now. That team was also only a 9-7 team that was fortunate just to be in the playoffs to begin with. IN 7 full seasons, he has been better than .500 twice. He is not a great HC, he is a much better OC where he has to answer to a HC.
HOnestly, when your oline is as bad as TN's is, you make adjustments. They have benched Poutasi twice during games, but somehow he kept him as the starter. The running game has been inconsistent, much of which I absolutely put on play calling because he never tried to really stick with the run and establish it. And the hit Mariota got hurt on was a complete cheap shot that would have injured most QBs and the DE was fined for. Brady missed a whole season due to a similar hit, so I dont think it is fair to say or even think Mariota will be injury prone based on a cheap that the kept him out 2 games.
And to add my thoughts on Whisenhunt's play calling. TN is 30th in the league in rushing attempts. Oakland and NE are the only teams who run the ball less than TN, and NE obviously has Brady, so it makes sense for them. In comparison to how Tampa has handled Winston, Tampa has the 6th most rushing attempts, and will be probably 3rd when the teams ahead of them have their buy week. What team, with a rookie QB, with honestly only 2 quality receivers (one of those being a TE who has missed a couple of games), doesn't try to establish the run? Their best RB has carried the ball 54 times in 7 games, that is just ridiculous play calling, especially when your line can't pass block at all. I have no clue what to expect with Mularkey taking over, but sure has hell hope he tries to establish the running game between the tackles. At least try and slow down the pass rush and what not.
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Cubs, the problem with all your reasons/excuses is that the two QB's have basically the same # of deep attempts.
So if Tenn has no deep threats then it's on the QB to know the personnel and make different decisions...my understanding is that Mariota's decision-making was his most prized asset? Also, it takes time to get off these types of plays. Since both QB's have the same # of attempts then both are getting a roughly equal shot at executing that type of play. I'm not saying the Tenn line is good, I'm saying both are trying to make this type of play at a relatively equal rate.
If MM is failing because of no personnel, time to realize that and adjust. Or perhaps Winston simply sees and throws that type of play much better. Time recognize that as the best way to explain the incredible discrepancy.
So if Tenn has no deep threats then it's on the QB to know the personnel and make different decisions...my understanding is that Mariota's decision-making was his most prized asset? Also, it takes time to get off these types of plays. Since both QB's have the same # of attempts then both are getting a roughly equal shot at executing that type of play. I'm not saying the Tenn line is good, I'm saying both are trying to make this type of play at a relatively equal rate.
If MM is failing because of no personnel, time to realize that and adjust. Or perhaps Winston simply sees and throws that type of play much better. Time recognize that as the best way to explain the incredible discrepancy.
Ok, first off, Mariota's #s are every bit as good as Winston's. Let's get that out there first off because I know many of you guys are just waiting for Mariota to be a bust for some reason, but for the most part he has played very well for a rookie. Secondly, no one in the world would argue that having 2 established down field threats and better pass protection isn't going to be an advantage when throwing the ball deep. If those things are meaningless, then why would do teams spend high draft picks on WR's and tackles? It takes more than just a QB to succeed, which some of you guys don't acknowledge at all.
And again, Mariota is not failing. You guys are cherry picking one aspect of the game Jameis has been better in, and now acting like Mariota has been a failure. In reality, Mariota has a higher completion % (64, Winston 58), higher QB rating (93, Winston 86), better TD-INT ratio (MM 9-5, Winston 10-7) , and averages more passing yards a game than Winston (MM 247- Winston 235). It is possible both are going to be good players you know.
And they just fired their HC, I would say they have realized they need changes and have made an adjustment.
So instead of addressing the actual details you just lump into generalities of "you guys" and cherry picking. Way to avoid the issue entirely.
All I did was say why the stat means what it means - reasons/excuses don't add up. Because the # of attempts is even, it says something about the quality of your justification(s).
All I did was say why the stat means what it means - reasons/excuses don't add up. Because the # of attempts is even, it says something about the quality of your justification(s).
You keep saying this like VJ is still the same player he was and Mike Evans is healthy. Neither is true.
You are cherry picking. You are specifically talking about passes over 20 yards in the air, that is basically the epitome of cherry picking. Honestly, 11-23 in 7 games, means that Jameis completes about 1.5 of these balls a game, and throws about 3 of these balls a game. I am not saying these #s aren't meaningless, and like I said in my very first post that Mariota needs to get better in this regards, but you are literally discussing about 3 passes a game as some sort of justification that Winston is better than Mariota, despite Mariota's #s being better in almost every aspect outside of these 3 or so attempts a game. How is that not cherry picking the stats?
And if you want to think that Hunter and DGB are on the same level as Evans and Jackson, I mean you are entitled to your opinion, but you will have a hard time justifying this opinion. And, if you want to minimize these types of receivers helping a QB out, then why would they be drafted so high? Why would Calvin Johnson, Evans, Julio, Cooper, etc etc be top 10 picks if they aren't a major asset to the QB position and passing game. It doesn't make any sense.
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Hilarious! The entire part of the thread is about this stat...have you forgotten that already? In case you missed it, I didn't even post the stat.
If Mariota has nobody to throw to, why is he throwing there? If his line is so much worse than Winston's, how is there enough time to have the same # of attempts? This is not complicated, your reasons/excuses are just not adding up to what is actually taking place.
All the other stuff you said is irrelevant fluff. I haven't put anything forth other than your excuses don't add up.
Yes, it is all irrelevant fluff, WRs are meaningless in the NFL. You are right, Mariota is awful, Winston is brilliant, thanks for showing me the light.
I was agreeing with you. Is that not what you said? We have established that the difference in receivers is meaningless yes? The o-lines are apparently meaningless too based on your previous post. You said it isn't complicated, and you at least seem to be arguing that the teams around them are pretty equal, or don't matter for much at least. So what other logic is there other than Mariota is terrible and Winston is great?
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I have seen a couple. How many of the Titans games have you watched (which should also be asked of all the other people commenting as well)? That question goes both ways. But do you honestly think comparing Justin Hunter to Evans or Jackson is a close comparison?
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Gotta give Mariota his due. Even if you take away the interception turned touchdown, he played well today.
Every time I look, he's playing great. Today 371 yards passing, 4 TDs and 0 INTs. His passer rating on the season is 101.5. I know we have some on this board who insist he's a terrible NFL quarterback, but I guess I'm not seeing the same thing.
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