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Net neutrality

I mean, my parents and in-laws don't stream anything. They use less data a month than probably one episode of Stranger Things. But they pay $40+ a month or something to be able to send emails and look up stock prices or whatever. Why shouldn't they have an option for $10/mo no-Netflix broadband? I'm amazed that there's so much rabble rousing to unbundle cable, but people are losing their minds about the idea of unbundling internet. The people who use hundreds of gigs a month of HBO and Netflix ABSOLUTELY want people who look at cat memes to share that bandwidth cost.

There were already low-cost low bandwidth options My MIL has a 5 Mbps service for $25/mo from Comcast with a 200 GB/month data cap. It already exists.

ISPs already have data caps as well. I'm confused by that part of this post. This isn't about bandwidth. This is about discriminating about different types of content, differentiating by service and what data is, regardless of bandwidth use.



It's going to matter when content can be blocked for any reason whatsoever. It starts as a guise of high data use, that's how this is being sold as a positive ramification. Then later, it's playing favorites with sites all together. This is not speculation, it already happens. If you've ever used temporary internet services like at hotels or on cruise ships, or at work with a strict firewall, you've experienced this.

The only bad thing here is ISPs can double up, charging both the consumer more AND the end site.


I'll bookmark discussion, we'll revisit ever so often to see how things change and see if anyone changes their tune.
 
There were already low-cost low bandwidth options My MIL has a 5 Mbps service for $25/mo from Comcast with a 200 GB/month data cap. It already exists.

ISPs already have data caps as well. I'm confused by that part of this post. This isn't about bandwidth. This is about discriminating about different types of content, differentiating by service and what data is, regardless of bandwidth use.



It's going to matter when content can be blocked for any reason whatsoever. It starts as a guise of high data use, that's how this is being sold as a positive ramification. Then later, it's playing favorites with sites all together. This is not speculation, it already happens. If you've ever used temporary internet services like at hotels or on cruise ships, or at work with a strict firewall, you've experienced this.

The only bad thing here is ISPs can double up, charging both the consumer more AND the end site.


I'll bookmark discussion, we'll revisit ever so often to see how things change and see if anyone changes their tune.

Nice. Im not real sure where I stand on this either. I'm all for more free market and less govt, but if they start messing with streaming my Noles and my bewbies, than we gonna have some problems.
 
Nice. Im not real sure where I stand on this either. I'm all for more free market and less govt, but if they start messing with streaming my Noles and my bewbies, than we gonna have some problems.
Did you have any problems prior to 2015?
 
Did you have any problems prior to 2015?
Im honestly not sure. Never really noticed, but I wouldnt put it past a cable company to pull some shady stuff without me having a clue. Im interested to see if this is just a political catfight or a real, tangible thing. Say in a yr or 2, are we even going to be talking about it, will we be loling at it like y2k? Glad dmm is going to keep track of this.
 
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Tell me again about what it was like with Net Neutrality, Papa

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If Net Neutrality is repealed:
● Twitter will begin charging to tweet
● Fewer people will be on Twitter
● Twitter will go away
● I forgot where I was going with this

For what it’s worth, I’m agnostic on the merits of Net Neutrality, but I’m not agnostic on the question of whether a federal agency should grab power to which it has no claim, which is what happened and what was just reversed. If this is good policy, it must go through Congress.
 
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If I understand correctly, this would allow an ISP, say Comcast, to throttle streaming on a company like Netflix in order to promote its own streaming service.

How likely is this to happen? Will there be enough players in the ISP arena to allow free market competition to keep a check on these types of things?
 
If I understand correctly, this would allow an ISP, say Comcast, to throttle streaming on a company like Netflix in order to promote its own streaming service.

How likely is this to happen? Will there be enough players in the ISP arena to allow free market competition to keep a check on these types of things?

It already did prior to 2015...thats why these rules were so critical. If you want any competition for innovation in large bandwidth services, this rollback essentially eliminates the ability of a start-up to compete without potentially hundreds of millions to pay ISPs

https://qz.com/256586/the-inside-story-of-how-netflix-came-to-pay-comcast-for-internet-traffic/
 
If I understand correctly, this would allow an ISP, say Comcast, to throttle streaming on a company like Netflix in order to promote its own streaming service.

How likely is this to happen? Will there be enough players in the ISP arena to allow free market competition to keep a check on these types of things?

What's worse is the cord cutting requires Internet right now and most ISPs are also cable providers. They've already started raising prices and installing data caps to combat people leaving cable.

I've also seen cable companies remove data cap if you use their cable and TV streaming services. I'm sure we'll see more of that.
 
If I understand correctly, this would allow an ISP, say Comcast, to throttle streaming on a company like Netflix in order to promote its own streaming service.

How likely is this to happen? Will there be enough players in the ISP arena to allow free market competition to keep a check on these types of things?

Picture yourself as the CEO of Comcast. Now propose and implement the throttling of the speed of Netflix or facebook or even block CNN. With the understanding that share holder wealth is the key element of your job. What do you suppose your companies stock value does that day?

I have not looked too far beyond the knee jerk hysterics that are being reported but my suspicions of who this really affects lies with certain huge financial institutions. The milliseconds we are talking about equates to 100 of millions of dollars in the trading sectors not to mention the added costs of paying for prioritized service. You know the sector that wasted millions of dollars into a single campaign that did not win. Silly Wall Street should have known you put money on both horses, see ABA.

Or shall we cry, "Give me regulation or give me Death"?
 
DRBtorLWkAEfFJz.jpg

DRBj4_KX0AEB9wf.jpg



Tell me again about what it was like with Net Neutrality, Papa

DRByP-gUEAA1-Ai.jpg




If Net Neutrality is repealed:
● Twitter will begin charging to tweet
● Fewer people will be on Twitter
● Twitter will go away
● I forgot where I was going with this

For what it’s worth, I’m agnostic on the merits of Net Neutrality, but I’m not agnostic on the question of whether a federal agency should grab power to which it has no claim, which is what happened and what was just reversed. If this is good policy, it must go through Congress.

Like I said earlier I am not really sure how I feel about NN. However when I see this type of utter garbage from a so called news organization it makes me think the whole thing is nothing. If you can't explain the merits of your case without over the top bs; then it is likely there are no merits to your case.
 
Like I said earlier I am not really sure how I feel about NN. However when I see this type of utter garbage from a so called news organization it makes me think the whole thing is nothing. If you can't explain the merits of your case without over the top bs; then it is likely there are no merits to your case.

It's a shame that we live in a world right now where most outlets use hyperbole and exaggeration to drum up support/outrage. There are plenty of straight forward tech sites to get no-nonsense news, but many sources are jumping into the extreme stance trend that is so prevalent today.

I haven't seen a big campaign for anyone calling for ending Net Neutrality, so most of what we see is the "PRO-NN" side. It feels like some folks are against NN simply because of who is associated with the PRO-NN side of things. Again, feels very partisan for a topic that shouldn't be so.
 
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I kind of laugh at the idea that
Like I said earlier I am not really sure how I feel about NN. However when I see this type of utter garbage from a so called news organization it makes me think the whole thing is nothing. If you can't explain the merits of your case without over the top bs; then it is likely there are no merits to your case.

It's really ridiculous. Again, I didn't ask for NN, and I didn't ask for it to be repealed.

But the idea that the internet reverting to 30 month prior rules is some kind of Armageddon is insane. The idea that ISPs would suddenly make the internet unusable, you know, the internet they're counting selling for $40-90/mo, just because they can, is ridiculous.

Yes, there are some places without ISP competition, but there is enough competition, with more options coming, in enough places, that I think it's going to be fine.
 
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I kind of laugh at the idea that


It's really ridiculous. Again, I didn't ask for NN, and I didn't ask for it to be repealed.

But the idea that the internet reverting to 30 month prior rules is some kind of Armageddon is insane. The idea that ISPs would suddenly make the internet unusable, you know, the internet they're counting selling for $40-90/mo, just because they can, is ridiculous.

Yes, there are some places without ISP competition, but there is enough competition, with more options coming, in enough places, that I think it's going to be fine.

A lot has changed in the past 30 months. As technology advances, so does our demand. Websites are no longer simply text based.

-Amazon, Hulu, YouTube, Playstation, At&T and Sling, as well as most cable providers, now offer live TV streaming to compete with traditional cable and satellite TV service providers.

-Social Media services like Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat now offer live streams, event streaming, as well as video chat.

-Hard data storage is shifting to cloud storage. Reliance on cloud services includes music services, document and file storage, email and MS Office backup, etc.


When folks say that NN stifles progress and innovation, I'd say it's backwards. The installation of NN has protected tech developers to create and push new services and products to market without fear of being bullied out of by competitors in cahoots with ISPs.


The problem with ISPs right now is legacy billing models. Many ISPs are also Cell or cable provides, which is why there's a history or offering content packages or playing favorites with services. It seems that the handful of high speed ISPs in the US could be more adaptive to the market in how consumers use broadband service.

While simple throttling or limiting access to completion, the other aspect that is troubling is potential for content censorship. I don't want anyone telling me what I can or cannot view on the Internet. That includes ISPs that require contract service agreements for new service. Some will say the FCC was having a say for what we the public could see with NN, but I'd argue that the essence of NN is the complete opposite: to prevent service providers from discrimination of data based on type/content. The only recourse that citizens will have going forward is to switch service providers, which could put them into a position where they must break their contracts and pay fines for doing so. Add to that, many ares have limited choices for ISPs and nothing says larger ISPs couldn't team up and lay down rules amongst themselves to behave together to eliminate competition.

The consumers have lost an element of protection, maybe that's something some people want but not most.
 
I'd hope everyone has seen news that the FCC plans to repeal net neutrality rules.

If you haven't please go read up as it will 100% impact you.

My question is this... does anyone support the repeal of net neutrality? Seems to be absolutely negative to everyone that isn't a ISP executive.

What's the case to be made for repealing it?

I'd assume we can do this without getting political. If not mods please feel free to lock/delete
.

You realize there was no 'net neutrality' before 2015, right? Was the internet broken in 2014? I don't remember any issues.
 
I do not want to log on one day to find that my access to the NY Times or ESPN or Guns and Ammo or Wikipedia is temporarily blocked because one of those sites is in a dispute with Comcast over fees.

It happens with cable and satellite, so why would we not expect it to happen with the ISPs (especially if they're the same entity).
 
Most of the hyperbole is just that, but it is a bad deal. If ISPs weren't also in the business of providing content then I wouldn't be too concerned, but it's not hard to see a future where NBC (Owned by Comcast) wants to launch it's own streaming service which is given QOS compared to access to sites like CBS or Netflix.

I don't mind data caps and tiered services. That wasn't really protected by Net Neutrality. What I do dislike is the possibility of not being able to access the service I want because the ISP I use throttles Netflix in favor of their service and my only option to be to go to another provider who throttles another service I like.
 
I guess we shall see if the ISPs will continue to grow and innovate without the regulatory interference or run amok and choose to harm their customers while creating havoc in their industries. A lot of wealth has been generated in this industry and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I will side with innovation, investment, growth and productivity as opposed to regulation (while not discounting the fact it has and will continue to be needed in the future). Some will say the "this" new technology survives outside economic policy and innovation spawns from regulation and on that point I will always beg to differ. Nothing is new here at all, just different.
 
Such liars and pseudo-free marketers on this board, the second that internet porn becomes a part of a bundle (like it is with cable) and you have to explain to your spouse why we need the diamond level from Comcast that includes the porn, y'all be for NN--just like the folks in DC.
 
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Basically as it is now, you are not allowed to block or slow down access to individual websites ie everything must be “fair”. Whether you’re Google or FSUTribe’sWorldofWineries.Net, your customers have equal access to your content. If the supporters get what they want, internet providers will be able to slow down or even block access to those smaller sites.

And if you’re a greedy capitalist you might say, “what do I care if a few Mom and Pops have to close up shop so that already profitable monopolies can make more money?” Except it’s more than that. Most internet providers are either telephone companies or cable companies. So your telephone company provider is looking to block your access to Skype, Zoom, Gotomeeting or any other “internet calls” and the cable providers are looking to slow down if not block access to Netflix, Hulu and the like.

Basically what they're is doing is great if you’re a cable company, telecom or other internet provider and terrible for literally everyone else from regular consumers to mom and pop/startup to even Netflix.
So as a consumer, I should be pissed.

But as an AT&T employee (which I am), I should dance naked in the streets.

Ugh. Yay!
 
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