Red Sox Fans

[millah_22]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:

Originally posted by millah_22:
That 10 game skid killed them. They also couldn't come from behind. Bogaerts was hot for a while, but is now cold. Stephen Drew can't hit. They have a problem at catcher, and AJ Pierzinksy was never the answer. Pedroia is doing okay, but last year he was having an MVP season that he may never replicate. Losing Ellsbury was bigger than they could have imagined. They've been playing many different outfielders. Platooning Gomes and Nava is a problem. Victorino has been injured all year, and Grady Sizemore barely didn't even last the first half. An aging Ortiz is their best hitter.

The only good to come from this season is Brock Holt. Otherwise, there is no spark that was present last year.

I think the A's win it. They have the spark that the Red Sox had last year.

I didn't like the Drew signing last year and hated it this year. There's a reason the guy was sitting at home playing poolside volleyball.

Ells was huge but there are too many other pieces to lay it just on that.

I do think there is a long-term strategy in place and I'm seeing a pattern to it. Cherington knows that winning it all last year gave him some leeway with the impatient fans. Farrell knows he has the trust of the clubhouse and minors so being that we're at this sort of crossroads I'd prefer to build more from the ground up.

I'll say again the key to the near future is Buccholz. If he can produce the stuff and mentor the younger guys then we're on to something. If he's gonna be "Clay the alien" then we're in trouble.

Boccholz to me is nothing more than an inning eater. Besides last year, and 2010, he has been at 4.2 ERA or well over. His whip has also been below average all except 2013. He's just not impressive to me, and if he hadn't thrown that no-hitter in his second start, I don't think people would expect too much out of him.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Clay is like my unicorn. Dazzling stuff when he's on but just can't seem to materialize but I just keep on hoping. I hear from some clubhouse guys he's a rally weird dude - even for pitchers.

Lester's start scratched and Workman gets the nod tonight (wed.). Things are gonna be moving.

I'm okay with what they do because there's no desperation to it. We're not dumping salary or holding fire sales. I think we're in the market for the right reasons.

I don't know if the team is distracted or just bad right now - probably a bit of both.

 

[SeaPA]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:
Clay is like my unicorn. Dazzling stuff when he's on but just can't seem to materialize but I just keep on hoping. I hear from some clubhouse guys he's a rally weird dude - even for pitchers.

Lester's start scratched and Workman gets the nod tonight (wed.). Things are gonna be moving.

I'm okay with what they do because there's no desperation to it. We're not dumping salary or holding fire sales. I think we're in the market for the right reasons.

I don't know if the team is distracted or just bad right now - probably a bit of both.

I think they're certainly distracted right now, but they are simply not very good anyway. The lousy play from April thru June wasn't from distractions; things just didn't work out this year. They don't hit for power, they don't hit for average, they can't manufacture runs, pitching's blah, defense is weak. Other than that, they've looked good this season.

 

[millah_22]

Originally posted by SeaPA:

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:
Clay is like my unicorn. Dazzling stuff when he's on but just can't seem to materialize but I just keep on hoping. I hear from some clubhouse guys he's a rally weird dude - even for pitchers.

Lester's start scratched and Workman gets the nod tonight (wed.). Things are gonna be moving.

I'm okay with what they do because there's no desperation to it. We're not dumping salary or holding fire sales. I think we're in the market for the right reasons.

I don't know if the team is distracted or just bad right now - probably a bit of both.

I think they're certainly distracted right now, but they are simply not very good anyway. The lousy play from April thru June wasn't from distractions; things just didn't work out this year. They don't hit for power, they don't hit for average, they can't manufacture runs, pitching's blah, defense is weak. Other than that, they've looked good this season.

They're playing unmotivated as well. They are 12 games back. GM and media are talking about trades. Mike Carp requested a trade.

A lot of people on the Red Sox subreddit are under the impression that the Red Sox are going to trade Lester for prospects and are 100% going to re-sign him in the off season. I think they're in for a huge let down. If he's gone, then he's gone forever.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

SeaPa you have some points but they've also shown flashes this season. The team has regularly come back in games - sometimes falling short but always battling. It's not as simple as everything is crappy. There's a lot going on and they play in Boston, which is different even from New York. Those aren't excuses, just I don't think the picture is that bleak or uninspired. At least we're weeding out the guys who can't handle playing in this environment.



Millah - right now there is some letdown and distraction. Just a couple weeks ago they might get down early in games but were regularly rallying and giving themselves chances for comebacks. That has faded.

I agree I don't think Lester comes back if he leaves. There are a lot easier places to pitch than a lefty in Boston.

 

[SeaPA]

Oh, I don't think they are devoid of talent - it's just been one of those years. Haven't gotten the production they needed from their top talent, and the young guys & mid-range players have not been anything special.

I'm torn on what I want them to do with Lester (I tend to agree that if they deal him, he'll either renew with his new team or go elsewhere as a free agent). While he's certainly valuable as trade bait, he's also invaluable to the roster if they want to contend next season. He's a great pitcher, he's durable (rarely misses starts) and eats innings. He's also been outstanding in big games/playoff games. Front of the rotation starters are not easy to find, and I'd hate to lose one of the best.

 

[SeaPA]

Deal's done, Lester & Jonny Gomes to the A's for Cespedes & a draft pick.

That certainly is an offensive upgrade.

 

[hatsbo]

The deed is done, ESPN and the Globe reporting Lester and Gomes to Oakland for slugger Yoenis Cespedes. A sad day indeed.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

A heavy heart as Lester was a competitor of the highest order. Let's not forget the organization stuck by him through cancer and his devoted tremendous resources to his development. There was all winners in this relationship.

They get a power RH bat in Fenway with some defensive capability. I'm not generally in favor of trading corner outfield for a top 2 starter but I honestly don't think Lester would be in a Sox uniform next year no matter what.

It's not easy to see him go but the front office did a good job with this.

 

[millah_22]

I'm okay with this trade, I actually kind of feel bad for Cespedes. You're coming down the home-stretch on a division winning season, and your team ships you to a lame duck non-contender. If the As win it all he'll get a ring, sure. But it can't compare to actually playing in the World Series with the team you've been on for the last 3 years.

 

[millah_22]

I'm very excited about the John Lackey to the Cards for Allen Craig and Joe Kelly.

 

[SeaPA]

Also dealt Miller from the pen today, along with Doubront yesterday. Do they have anyone left to pitch as they play out the string this year?

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Rotation is Clay, Workman, Webster, De La Rosa...and Kelly (?). They have a NUMBER of good pitching prospects and Farrell has a great record of developing within Boston.

What I'm not sure of is do they bring up a top prospect like Ranaudo, Owens, or Barnes? Or let them get more experience and confidence down below?

We also look good at catcher for the future.


We'll be down for this year and maybe 2015 but after that watch out, there are some great pieces. My guess is Cespedes can stick around: he's got the wall to hit off and a short LF to throw out guys. If he can manage the fan pressure I bet he thrives.

 

[dimmernole]

Ranaudo makes the most sense. Owens not quite ready, Barnes has not impressed this season.

 

[hatsbo]

The more I research the trades, the more comfortable I am with what transpired. Got to hand it to Cherington, dude is definitely not gun shy. Spent some time researching the farm system, lots of good prospects in the wings, the farm system is healthy. And they are starting Ranaudo tonight against the Yanks. Middlebrooks is back and playing third, Holt in right, Betts center and Craig left, he's batting 5th. Cespedes, still in transit, might be available.

 

[Manch.]

The Sox got Rodriguez from Baltimore for Miller. ER was Baltimore's 3rd ranked prospect. It looks like the Sox got more for Miller than the Rays received for Price.

Armas, Jr., Pavano and Suppan were once the great next Big 3, but the Sox' prospects are much deeper, and might be more established when they hit the bigs.

Getting Craig and Cespedes, 1 All Stars in the outfield was huge.

Not sure of Betts is ready or not, but the Sox have a tone of young talent waiting to explode. Not all of them will work out, but this farm system is loaded, thanks to Theo, and the Sox did well not to trade any of prospects over the past 3-4 years. I really like Vasquez, and he is currently ranked below Swihart.

Heath Hembree, who came over in the Peavy trade, is major league ready.Escobar was ranked 56th overall by Baseball America. I haven't seen this much talent in the minors for a long time and other than St. Louis, it has been a while since a MLB team has had this much pitching in the waiting.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

The only thing that bugs me is the Lackey deal. We have a #3 starter paid 500k next year. How are we gonna get a better deal than that?

Craig could be a one-hit wonder with a single hot streak and gets $13 million. Kelly has had a good year but I worry it's anomalous.

I don't see the point in adding salary and reducing flexibility.

 

[millah_22]

Originally posted by Manch.:
The Sox got Rodriguez from Baltimore for Miller. ER was Baltimore's 3rd ranked prospect. It looks like the Sox got more for Miller than the Rays received for Price.

Armas, Jr., Pavano and Suppan were once the great next Big 3, but the Sox' prospects are much deeper, and might be more established when they hit the bigs.

Getting Craig and Cespedes, 1 All Stars in the outfield was huge.

Not sure of Betts is ready or not, but the Sox have a tone of young talent waiting to explode. Not all of them will work out, but this farm system is loaded, thanks to Theo, and the Sox did well not to trade any of prospects over the past 3-4 years. I really like Vasquez, and he is currently ranked below Swihart.

Heath Hembree, who came over in the Peavy trade, is major league ready.Escobar was ranked 56th overall by Baseball America. I haven't seen this much talent in the minors for a long time and other than St. Louis, it has been a while since a MLB team has had this much pitching in the waiting.

Theo Epstein went to the Cubs 3 years ago. Cherington was the player scout and head of player development under Epstein. Cherington was Co-GM when Theo took his leave and came back a few months later. Ben Cherington has just as much, if not more, credit to the current farm system than Theo Epstein.

This post was edited on 8/3 3:27 PM by millah_22

 

[millah_22]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:
The only thing that bugs me is the Lackey deal. We have a #3 starter paid 500k next year. How are we gonna get a better deal than that?

Craig could be a one-hit wonder with a single hot streak and gets $13 million. Kelly has had a good year but I worry it's anomalous.

I don't see the point in adding salary and reducing flexibility.

Lackey was trying to reconstruct his contract to get paid more, he didn't want to play for the vet-minimum saying he may retire. When he went to the Cards one of the first things he said was he'd honor that year.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Yeah but if we throw away 2014 because he "may" retire all we do is keep flexibility, which we lost once the trade was done.

A major market team should not have a fire sale to limit its flexibility for the next year. I don't care what he said once he got to St. Louis, never should have been there. Why paint ourselves into a corner?

 

[millah_22]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:
Yeah but if we throw away 2014 because he "may" retire all we do is keep flexibility, which we lost once the trade was done.

A major market team should not have a fire sale to limit its flexibility for the next year. I don't care what he said once he got to St. Louis, never should have been there. Why paint ourselves into a corner?

The Red Sox got Allen Craig out of the deal. A 2013 All-Star that can play OF and 1B who is signed through 2018. My personal opinion is that at the MLB level it's easier to find 1 good pitcher than it is to find 1 good position player. The Red Sox gave up 1 and a half years very good veteran pitcher for 3.5 years of a good OF/1B.

Personally I think Lackey for Craig is a much better deal than Lester for Cespedes. Especially since every day it sounds like Lester returning to Boston is more unlikely.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

That's fair - I guess I see it different - it's not just Craig for 3.5 years, it's Craig plus $13 million in commitment for 3.5 years. I'm not sure which Allen Craig shows up so to me the trade won't show its potential for a while.

I never thought Lester would re-sign with Boston, regardless of the trade. More likely he's a Yankee than Boston IMHO.

 

[hatsbo]

Was in a layover last night in Charlotte and checked the score, we're up 2-1 going into the seventh. Two dreaded thoughts enter my mind which I've had before this year, 1} we won't score again and 2} Tazawa will blow the lead. Land in Tally and the deed is done. Some things nevere change...sigh.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Victorino out with back surgery - probably just as well he recovers for 2015 but that's a blow.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Cespedes quickly produces for the Sox. Ranaudo had a decent start and Vasquez settling in at catcher.

Had a decent road trip and I think the team continues to play hard.

 

[hatsbo]

Well, another week has passed and we still can't hit the broad side of a barn, nice four game sweep by the Angels. Despite our suckage, the team hasn't lacked for news this season, here's the latest on the Cubano phenom:

Cuban addition

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Ortiz hits 30 HR for the 8th time in his career!

The team just plays very young: 3-4 wins in a row and then 4 losses in a row. Not enough staring pitching to stop the bleeding.

 

[Manch.]

Originally posted by NoleMoreTears:
That's fair - I guess I see it different - it's not just Craig for 3.5 years, it's Craig plus $13 million in commitment for 3.5 years. I'm not sure which Allen Craig shows up so to me the trade won't show its potential for a while.

I never thought Lester would re-sign with Boston, regardless of the trade. More likely he's a Yankee than Boston IMHO.

With the addition of Cespedes, Craig and now Castillo, the outfield looks to be OK with some power.

I think chances of resigning Lester gets better and better. I do not see him going to NY. I like a 5 year deal for Lester, he's 30 and over and over, we are seeing pitchers sign for big money and then get hurt and fade. If the Yanks want him for 6-7 years at $25m per, then good luck to both parties. The Dodgers could be players, but I think the Yanks and Sox have figured out that long term pitching contracts are just not the way.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Word has it Lester would basically give the Sox a 1-year break, meaning if the money is comparable and another team offers 7 years, the Sox would land him with a 6-year deal.

I don't expect him back but it would be a great addition for sure.

 

[Manch.]

Still haven't had Cespedes, Ortiz, Napoli and Craig in the lineup at the same time (unless I missed it and they did).

Ranaudo looking good tonight and can't wait to see if Henry Owens gets a start or two in September, next year's staff could be taller than the Celtics front court.

Mookie Betts has a grand slam tonight, I have a real tough time cheering for Moooooookie.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Mookie Wilson with the fancy shoes and the 86 Mets.

Team is playing very young: win 4 straight, lose 8 straight, bounce back and win a few. The weird part is it doesn't seem to matter what the competition is.

 

[hatsbo]

Well, the dog days of summer have turned into truly that. Looks like the best we can do now is derail the Yankees the last three games of the season, but it's looking like we won't even have the joy of attempting that.

Was looking at our current starters, only Kelly and De La Rosa have respectable ERA's, all the young whippersnappers are 5 plus. Linked an article about us doing some shopping during the off season, should be interesting. My heart wants Lester back in a Sox uniform, but I just don't see it happening unless he agrees to go shorter term contract.

Shopping spree!

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Workman is 1-9 and Pedroia done for the year...getting tough to watch now but memories of last year are helping a lot.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

It's getting hard to watch now. We've been shutout 15 times this year!

Castillo making his debut from Cuba.

 

[dimmernole]

Do we possibly have hitting instruction issues? Kids can't develop, or once they hit the majors, drop like a rock.
Bradley, Middlebrooks, Bogaerts (though showing some signs of waking up) Already given up on Lavarnway.