Shooting on Campus at FSU

[bcherod]

It could have been Society for Neuroscience (SfN). That is the largest annual neuroscience conference with 20,000+ attendees, and it alternates between San Diego and various other major American cities on an annual basis. It's massive and typically has a huge variety of presentations for both professional and public audiences. I have attended off and on when it's been in San Diego, and I always have a good time.

The reason I don’t think it was an APA thing is that there was nothing about behaviorism. It was strictly about the brain.

I went two years in a row and took the learning brain test 4 times. I had to be convinced.

It was about learning and the brain. In Boston both years.

 

[noletaire]

I hope he's not a complete charlatan. I like his books and free resources like his podcast.

In the field of psychiatry and psychology, he'd have ample company. As important as psychiatry is, its ripe with corruption, abuse, and profit seeking.

 

[Banditking]

I certainly agree with your first two sentences. Your third sentence is inaccurate. The problem is obviously both the guns and the people, or more precisely: the interaction of the two. However, removing the guns from the home is much simpler, faster, more reliable, and just easier than removing the people from the home.

After these terrible events, so many people deflect from the guns variable to the "mental illness/healthcare" variable. Yet, those same people seem deeply invested in ignoring what the mental health profession and the mental healthcare providers have consistently said for decades: if you want to reduce shooting deaths, then the fastest, most effective, least disruptive intervention is to get the guns out of your homes and your communities to the greatest extent that you possibly can.

That’s a choice someone living in their household should have made.

 

[Banditking]

Agree 100%.
Psychiatry is a very limited field, for several reasons. The biggest is the one you mentioned. The individual has to want to go to therapy.

When you have a physical ailment, bad back, cough, etc, the symptom is very recognizable.
How many people say, "I believe I might be a sociopath? I better go check that out?"

Other medical fields are similarly limited. Men die younger than women. In part, it’s because they don’t go to the dr. Obesity is rampant. Diabetes. Hypertension. Untreated sleep apnea. People know and do nothing about it. Most people don’t exercise. The common element here is that being healthy requires effort. Many people are simply unwilling or unable to exert effort. That’s true for many of society’s ills.

I do think education can help. How many people now lock up their guns, for example? I bet that has increased over the years.

I think, our lack of long term psychiatric hospitals is a problem. Eg, big city homeless populations being allowed to camp out in front of people’s houses and on sidewalks pose a threat.

But, I think we can’t go Minority Report on the situation. Can’t simply lock up the socially awkward who have impulse control problems and poor mood control. Colleges could be more careful on admissions. But, the implications of doing so could further marginalize the mentally ill and contribute to increasing the likelihood of violent outcomes.

This is a sad crime.

 

[Banditking]

I briefly worked as an RA for Charlie Madsen. That guy was a Character. Going to his offices in the rafters of the old psych building was like stepping back in time, as was just attending his lectures. He was so old school, and yet so quirky. I remember seeing him drive off of campus one in evening in a bright red Mitsubishi 3000GT with the windows down and classical music blasting. I still share anecdotes from some his lectures with my students.

I remember him. I wrote a paper on DID in his class. This was an interesting class in part because he was one of few practicing clinicians who used case example throughout his class that I encountered teaching undergrad. I think he taught abnormal psychology. He was an engaging lecturer. I think, in retrospect, I would have a lot of skepticism relative to ideas he presented. But, he made psychology interesting. I remember his story about a suicidal graduate student with a shotgun well.

 

[Banditking]

Interesting. I know he was a college professor for most of his career. That's not serious wealth.

I wonder how much he made off "Feeling Good." He said his Father was a Lutheran pastor so I don't know if he inherited much, unless his Mother was wealthy.

I didn't think his app was a huge hit yet.

A lot of professors at higher level universities are multi-millionaires. Often, there’s more than one source of income. Think patents, books, spinoff companies, speaking fees, etc. I would wager 8 figure networth is probably more unusual that not, though still more common that the population at large.

 

[bcherod]

I think this is an error. Social workers generally have lived experience. There are group therapy outlets for getting shared experience discussion. Psychologists and psychiatrists are supposed to apply science to the treatment of mental disorders. There are empirically supported approaches to treating ptsd. A skilled psychologist or psychiatrist should be trained in those approaches and able to execute them.

Rapport is important to build. But, aside from shared humanity, even if the psychologist or psychiatrist has military experience, and ptsd, they should not reveal that. It’s unprofessional but it’s also potentially detrimental to successful treatment.

I agree mostly with what you said.

To add to that, I’d say that the general public needs to be educated. They need to have a basic understanding of psychology, developmental disabilities, etc.

Acceptance of others and their differences is an integral part of creating stability.

Learning appropriate behaviors would help.

 

[bcherod]

I think BRATs stick together because we have shared experiences and shared traumas.

We’re considered a sub culture. There are even sub sub groups, like mine that grew up in the Far East during Vietnam.

We were exposed to things that most kids never see in their lifetime. .

Guys just a few years older on R&R, after having been shot up, all the way to the seriously injured, that had to be stabilized before being sent to a hospital stateside.

Kids fathers, MIA or KIA, and family friends that were residents of the Hanoi Hilton.

 

[bcherod]

I did find doing psychotherapy as a young person in my 20s kind of awkward. I was better working with college students and children than middle age and older adults. I never really liked doing psychotherapy. I’m now a very experienced clinician, but on the assessment side of things. Rapport still matters and part of that is creating a therapeutic milieu. This is a skill. It can be learned but there are individual differences in capacity.

I think the veteran population does require some additional work to understand military culture and experiences. When doing VA research, I tended to like having veteran coordinators for recruiting patients because of that. The department of defense and the Va now require that researchers talk to veterans with lived experience. The department of defense includes veterans with lived experience on their review panels. I found that interesting.

Well it was until a few months ago.

My vet friends with PTSD relate well to me and tell me things that they don’t share with others.

I get it and I get why.

 

[bcherod]

Bandi, you made me think of something.

I was in the states just 18 months before I came to FSU.

In a nutshell, I worked with clinicians at Easter Seal and Sunland. Plus my best friend was getting her PhD in Counseling.

They were a huge help to me. They taught me a lot.

I was naturally an empath, but they taught me how to channel all the feelings and adjust my behavior appropriately.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Other medical fields are similarly limited. Men die younger than women. In part, it’s because they don’t go to the dr. Obesity is rampant. Diabetes. Hypertension. Untreated sleep apnea. People know and do nothing about it. Most people don’t exercise. The common element here is that being healthy requires effort. Many people are simply unwilling or unable to exert effort. That’s true for many of society’s ills.

I do think education can help. How many people now lock up their guns, for example? I bet that has increased over the years.

I think, our lack of long term psychiatric hospitals is a problem. Eg, big city homeless populations being allowed to camp out in front of people’s houses and on sidewalks pose a threat.

But, I think we can’t go Minority Report on the situation. Can’t simply lock up the socially awkward who have impulse control problems and poor mood control. Colleges could be more careful on admissions. But, the implications of doing so could further marginalize the mentally ill and contribute to increasing the likelihood of violent outcomes.

This is a sad crime.

People dont go to the doctor because its a pain in the ass. Appointments, waiting, cost and getting nothing out of the deal. If people would just go to the doctor when they are actually sick it would help as well. Doctors are chock full of people that don't need to be there which makes the process painful for those that actually need to go. Personally, I only go if I'm deathly ill or for a annual checkup no reason to go for every ache and pain.

As for guns people don't get educated because they don't have to. I lock my guns up. It's no big deal to get a fingerprint lock or similar that will not slow down your response time if needed.

But you are correct in that people are in fact lazy.

 

[noletaire]

Other medical fields are similarly limited. Men die younger than women. In part, it’s because they don’t go to the dr. Obesity is rampant. Diabetes. Hypertension. Untreated sleep apnea. People know and do nothing about it. Most people don’t exercise. The common element here is that being healthy requires effort. Many people are simply unwilling or unable to exert effort. That’s true for many of society’s ills.

I do think education can help. How many people now lock up their guns, for example? I bet that has increased over the years.

I think, our lack of long term psychiatric hospitals is a problem. Eg, big city homeless populations being allowed to camp out in front of people’s houses and on sidewalks pose a threat.

But, I think we can’t go Minority Report on the situation. Can’t simply lock up the socially awkward who have impulse control problems and poor mood control. Colleges could be more careful on admissions. But, the implications of doing so could further marginalize the mentally ill and contribute to increasing the likelihood of violent outcomes.

This is a sad crime.

The area where psychiatry and other fields are not similarly limited is in diagnosis. In other fields, You can take numerous tests (x-rays, cat scans, MRIs, a variety of blood tests, etc, etc. In psychiatry, its largely subjective, and the bible is the DSM, which is based on observations and is subjective. For example, there's no blood test or ultra sound that detects bi-polar, or depression, etc.

Again, psychiatry is an important field, but it has significant limitations which leaves it open for more than its fair share of quackery, fraud, and abuse.

 

[Banditking]

The area where psychiatry and other fields are not similarly limited is in diagnosis. In other fields, You can take numerous tests (x-rays, cat scans, MRIs, a variety of blood tests, etc, etc. In psychiatry, its largely subjective, and the bible is the DSM, which is based on observations and is subjective. For example, there's no blood test or ultra sound that detects bi-polar, or depression, etc.

Again, psychiatry is an important field, but it has significant limitations which leaves it open for more than its fair share of quackery, fraud, and abuse.

There are many diseases and conditions in other medical fields including neurology, for example, where it’s not always so clean cut. There are psychiatric conditions where we can use mri, and genetic testing to inform diagnosis.

Sure, it’s simple to diagnosis a broken bone or a brain tumor. Hepatic encephalopathy? A little more complicated.

The dsm has limitations. That’s so. And, there are well known examples of fraud, quackery and abuse. I think ptsd (psychiatry) and mild tbi (neurology), for example, are both abused in civilian and military populations for service connection and lawsuits.

 

[Banditking]

People dont go to the doctor because its a pain in the ass. Appointments, waiting, cost and getting nothing out of the deal. If people would just go to the doctor when they are actually sick it would help as well. Doctors are chock full of people that don't need to be there which makes the process painful for those that actually need to go. Personally, I only go if I'm deathly ill or for a annual checkup no reason to go for every ache and pain.

As for guns people don't get educated because they don't have to. I lock my guns up. It's no big deal to get a fingerprint lock or similar that will not slow down your response time if needed.

But you are correct in that people are in fact lazy.

I work in a hospital and I do medical research and haven’t been to a primary doctor in like a decade because it’s a pain in the ass. Is that stupid? Highly.

I do workout regularly and I’m not fat. But, still. I’m a terrible patient. I don’t even go if I’m sick. I just wait it out, typically.

I think annual checkups are wise. I see no reason to go for a cold or whatever.

 

[BrianNole777]

I work in a hospital and I do medical research and haven’t been to a primary doctor in like a decade because it’s a pain in the ass. Is that stupid? Highly.

I do workout regularly and I’m not fat. But, still. I’m a terrible patient. I don’t even go if I’m sick. I just wait it out, typically.

Do you check your blood work and blood pressure?

 

[BrianNole777]

I check my blood pressure. It’s fine. I track sleep quality with an Apple Watch. No evidence of sleep apnea. I run 5 days a week. Do strength training regularly. Though, I should do more. I take omega 3, magnesium and b12 supplements. The former based on a physician rec a long while back and the latter two based on brain aging data.

Haven’t checked my blood work in a while. I should. Also, need to do some other aging related tests. Biggest risks for me are likely cancer getting me because I haven’t been getting regular blood tests or screenings or a heart attack from crazy cholesterol levels I don’t know about.

Have you ever done a calcium test heart screening?

I did 1.5 years ago. It's great...super easy and inexpensive.

The Heart Test You May Need—but Likely Haven’t Heard Of

Meet the coronary calcium scan, an accurate test that can help determine your future risk of heart attack or cardiovascular disease.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[GeddyLee09]

Have you ever done a calcium test heart screening?

I did 1.5 years ago. It's great...super easy and inexpensive.

The Heart Test You May Need—but Likely Haven’t Heard Of

Meet the coronary calcium scan, an accurate test that can help determine your future risk of heart attack or cardiovascular disease.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

If you decide to get a CAC test, you'll likely pay out of pocket, and the price is generally $100 to $400. But self-pay rates vary widely across the United States.12


As to why insurers in most states don't cover the test, as of January 2023, there's a lack of high-quality data showing that CAC testing reduces the rate of heart-related complications, including heart attacks. But some observational evidence suggests that calcium scoring can help identify people who may benefit from preventive therapies.

Calcium Score: What To Know About Coronary Artery Calcium Testing

Learn about coronary artery calcium (CAC) testing and calcium scores can help predict your risk of heart disease and heart attack.

www.health.com

Everyone is at risk for heart related issues. Maintain a healthy lifestyle and reduce stress and you will lower your risk. Another problem with modern healthcare. People with lower risk and symptoms take a test like this, get a decent score (which has no upper limit) then goes on meds when they really don't need to. Insurance doesn't cover it; patient pays full price to the doctor then goes on a treatment plan they didn't need. Win win.

 

[BrainVision]

I remember him. I wrote a paper on DID in his class. This was an interesting class in part because he was one of few practicing clinicians who used case example throughout his class that I encountered teaching undergrad. I think he taught abnormal psychology. He was an engaging lecturer. I think, in retrospect, I would have a lot of skepticism relative to ideas he presented. But, he made psychology interesting. I remember his story about a suicidal graduate student with a shotgun well.

He had a long-term assistant who was pretty quirky in her own right. While proctoring our final exam, she tucked the hem of her floor-length skirt into the waistband of her underwear. A full moon shone for the remainder of the exam. That remains one of the oddest things that I have observed in a college classroom.

 

[BrainVision]

I actually kind of like going to the doctor. I see my PCP twice per year for check-ups, and it is always pleasant. I also go to the dentist and the optometrist every six months. I suppose that I like maintenance tasks, generally, based on how I care for my cars, shoes, etc.

 

[GeddyLee09]

A few years ago, I had an allergic reaction to something (not sure what still) bit I went to the urgent care clinic and the nurse wanted me to take nitro. Here is the conversation. Sir you should take this. What is it? Nitro. What is it for? If your having a heart attack. Am I? No. Why would I take it then? Just in case. Am I going to get something for a allergic reation? Is that what your having? You tell me. Im not sure what is wrong. Then why give me nitro? Just incase its a heart attack.

I left and got benadryl from CVS.