She did take action. She went to the leader of the club. They asked him to leave and not return.
Shooting on Campus at FSU
- Thread starter seminoleed
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Let me thank you all for keeping this discussion between the lines.
It isnt?" if you want to reduce shooting deaths, then the fastest, most effective, least disruptive intervention is to get the guns out of your homes and your communities to the greatest extent that you possibly can." This sounds a lot like removing the guns. I agree with you in the fact that if you dont drive your less likely to be in a car accident the same as if you don't shoot people there would be no gun deaths.
You're not going to remove all the guns just like cars, but you can regulate guns like you can cars. To drive a car, I need a license which comes with training (in some cases), insurance, plates, trips to the DMV ect... Why is it so tough to do at least the same with firearms? Require training, certifications, storage standards ect... Have rules on who can operate them just like cars. Responsible ownership is what's required. Many things had to happen for this shooting to occur, removing even one of them could have prevented it. The gun is simply the instrument.
First hand experience with this “alleged” shooter from different classmates in various settings seems to indicate that he fits the narrative used to describe so many of these people - a sad out of place loner who had severe limitations on social skills and a person continually “on the outside looking in”.
I think these persons have always existed in society, but in more recent years their inability to be part of society has become a larger challenge for them. And a growing trend of drastic attempts to achieve the attention they’ve never been able to achieve by the path afforded to their peers.
I think this person and others like him have to be “noticed” more and better efforts to help them learn socialization skills and also help them understand that they’re okay as humans.
Not everyone is going to be the captain of the football team or voted most likely to succeed but somehow the great majority of us are okay with that - sadly these people don’t seem to get that.
I think these persons have always existed in society, but in more recent years their inability to be part of society has become a larger challenge for them. And a growing trend of drastic attempts to achieve the attention they’ve never been able to achieve by the path afforded to their peers.
I think this person and others like him have to be “noticed” more and better efforts to help them learn socialization skills and also help them understand that they’re okay as humans.
Not everyone is going to be the captain of the football team or voted most likely to succeed but somehow the great majority of us are okay with that - sadly these people don’t seem to get that.
Very reasonable and well thought out. But I'm afraid the kind of proselytizing that would be needed will fall on mostly deaf ears.
It'll work...if the stick has the proper carrots at the end of it.
Persuasion is a lot like leadership. If it's all talk you come off as a car salesman and ineffective. Back up the talk with action or just action without the chatter and you'll get somewhere.
It was well thought out but its also a fundamentally flawed idea, as many theoretical ideas are just that (ie. Marxism).
Sure it sounds good on paper, but its not grounded in any form of reality. That's because criminals and the mentally ill, who are people we would need persuade to not use firearms, are NOT reasonable or rational people, so it would fall on "deaf ears". The idea of "persuading" a criminal or a mentally ill person not to use guns is detached from reality.
IF the idea is to persuade, normal sane people to not use firearms because it those weapons might fall into the hands of those who would use it to harm others... well, that's just nonsense.
Did you ever have a case that you thought could be spiritual in nature?
Do you have an opinion on Dr. Scott Peck?
'Encountered Satan' During Exorcisms : Psychiatrist Sees Evil as Form of Mental Illness
A Connecticut psychiatrist remembers how a friend of his mother's once described him: "That was the little boy who was always talking about things he shouldn't have been talking about."
www.latimes.com
If that was the case we could just do away with prisons and persuade people to stop committing crimes. Seems a much better alternative than jail, doesn't it? If you could do that there would be no crime and no need for prison or laws. While criminals and the mentally ill are easily persuaded (as evidenced by actions) it's difficult to break that cycle.
Agree.
Sure, a good therapist or psychiatrist could "persuade" someone not to commit suicide.
But the idea that you can persuade criminals to put away their guns is a chapter from Don Quixote. Anyone who has worked with real criminals whether in a correctional institution, on the street or in undercover, would laugh at the notion that you can persuade to criminals to give up the use of violence in their criminal activities.
I don't doubt a psychiatrist could persuade someone not to harm others but only to a limited extent. Once they're off their medications or if they stop going to therapy, then its a matter of time. And there's no guarantee that a psychiatrist's methods that were working this month, are going to continue being effective next month.
I don't doubt the importance of psychiatry, but the field of psychiatry has very real limitations.
Unfortunately, there are some in psychiatry that have convinced themselves that their abilities are far greater than what they actually are. I'm afraid hubris in the field of psychiatry is a real drawback to the field.
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Yep. If psychiatry was the magic bullet, these issues would not keep happening.
This is why I think criminals, and, in some cases, mentally ill people are acting how they were taught. Not taught intentionally but learning what they see as a younger person.
Call me a skeptic in that department but admittedly my knowledge of those fields is very basic. My opinion is that therapy and the like only work if the person participating wants it to work. I have personally witnessed first-hand violence and death in varying degrees of severity. I've witness those involved go to therapy and not go and don't see a real difference. If the person wants it to help it will help if they don't it won't. It doesn't make the dreams or thoughts of the event go away.
Agree 100%.
Psychiatry is a very limited field, for several reasons. The biggest is the one you mentioned. The individual has to want to go to therapy.
When you have a physical ailment, bad back, cough, etc, the symptom is very recognizable.
How many people say, "I believe I might be a sociopath? I better go check that out?"
Good article on the subject.
Therapy Won't Save Us
The U.S. has hit peak therapy. So why isn't national mental health improving?
Like if I have fibromyalgia or something like that? Kidding. Sorry.
Thanks.
Peck wrote the classic psychology book "The Road Less Traveled."
Have you ever had any clients that had schizoid personality disorder?
I've known a man for 11 years that has it. He's almost 70 now and seems to be getting much more anxious and withdrawn.
I read the symptoms may worsen with age.
Not sure I'm on board with all of that. In speaking to other vets and those who have experienced trauma in and outside of battle one thing seems to be mentioned a lot. How can someone provide therapy, guidance or counseling on something they haven't experienced? How would someone know what you're speaking about if they haven't experienced it or had any real dealings with it outside of faraway sessions? I can imagine it's quite difficult to get someone to buy in. I'm just talking generalities here because I don't know your background just what I've heard from others with like experiences. It's tough to relate until you walk that mile in someone's shoes as they say.
I remember listening to my dad and grandad's stories when I was young and couldn't relate to what they were saying. I understood it but couldn't relate. It wasn't until years later after I had some of the same experiences that I somewhat understood what was going on. Admittedly my experiences likely pale to what they went through.
This is a great article. Definite must read for anyone interested in psychiatry.Good article on the subject.
Therapy Won't Save Us
The U.S. has hit peak therapy. So why isn't national mental health improving?time.com
There are very significant limitations to psychiatry, to a point where its not far from removed from voodoo and the efficacy of witch doctors. One big problem is the identification of most of the ailments are subjective to the psychiatrist. Unlike other ailments, very few tests, if any, are available to objectively measure the type and degree of mental illness.
In summary: psychiatry and the psychiatrists are largely failing their patients. That said, placing our hopes in this field to stop mass shootings appears futile.
Having to work as a behaviorist for years, I always felt that there needed to be a meeting of the minds between Freud and Skinner.
Behaviorists didn’t believe in free will. Psychiatrists had to have deep reasons for behavior.
In grad school, Charlie Madsen made us write a paper, our specialty in mind, on a utopian society using behavioral tenets.
I was like seriously? Behaviorism is distinctly opposite from Leisure Studies and the idea of intrinsic rewards, and leisure is all about intrinsic rewards.
I’ll never forget that class and how he found it “interesting “, and had me explain the thought process. I still made an A in the class though, but it was a challenge.
Great post. Its like a grief counselor that has never lost a loved one trying to help others with their grief. I believe that's partly where the hubris I mentioned in a previous thread comes in.
Another part of this hubris, is that people are experts in psychiatry they believe they can really control or fix the workings of the mind. People get their credentials that say they're a doctor and "hubris" starts to emerge. Yet the human brain and our emotions is the medical field we know the least about. Our inability to have accurate testing like in other medical fields is a big part of that. I believe at some point
So the "experts" are experts in a medical field that still has many unknowns. That's why alot of these guys are just kind of guessing and failing (like the article discussed). But that doesn't stop them continuing to throw darts, and doesn't stop the drug companies from pushing their drugs. The psychiatrists and the drug companies are going to their slice of the profits, regardless.
And of course, this latitude given to psychiatrist and the fact that alot diagnosis is based on guesswork and subjective analysis leads to no small of amount quackery among psychiatrists. No wonder why psychiatry is the least respected medical field compared to other medical disciplines. Its an extremely important field of medicine. But until a real scientific and measure assessments are developed, the psychiatry will always be viewed with skepticism and justifiably so.
Yep. Very good post here. Its a fascinating field of study; the human mind. Yet we still know so little abou it. I read somewhere where we only use approximately 5-10% of our brain capacity. I hope in the future to see some real significant advances in psychology and psychiatry. Maybe then, we might really use the field of psychiatry to break up this horrible cycle of violence that has become commonplace in our society.
My school used to send me to the annual brain conferences in Boston. Fascinating stuff and a lot of things that went over my head.
Any tips on how I can effectively engage with schizoid personality disorder people?
Are you a fan of Dr. David Burns? He has a weekly podcast I listen to.
Feeling Good with Dr. David Burns
Dr. David Burns is the author of Feeling Good, Feeling Great, and other books that have sold more than 6 million copies. He was a pioneer in the development of cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) and has developed a new approach called TEAM, which stands for: Testing, Empathy, Agenda Setting and...
youtube.com
I’m not sure that it was an APA conference.
There were a lot of neuro scientists that study the brain.
I went because I taught LD high school kids.
I did go to a lecture in my off time that was all about different brain wiring. Fortunately it had colored coded illustrations, so it was easier for me to understand.
Kids that play a lot of video games have a completely different color of wires (in their brains), as opposed to kids that read a lot
Fascinating stuff.
He has a relatively new book called "Feeling Great" which I think is good, it's mostly about positive reframing.
His app has a free AI chat and he says he gives away the yearly subscription for the other services for free if requested. He also says he hasn't charged for thousands of therapy session in decades.
I wonder how much he's making on the AI startup? No idea.
He's 82 years old so perhaps he's trying to build some wealth for his kids and grandkids.
Interestingly, he doesn't believe anti-depressants work. He said he gave out thousands of prescriptions for them and they rarely were helpful.
He met Dr. Aaron Beck and learned about CBT and the rest is history.
I wonder what his net worth is?
I assumed he made a ton off "Feeling Good" and lives off that.
