Sounds Like the FSU Trustee Meeting getting heated.

[Banditking]

Hmm.

I never engaged with fraternities in college. I think I went to one fraternity party. Was invited to rush one. Guy thought I’d raise their average gpa. Didn’t bother to look it up. Probably would not have been selected. Culturally, this was not my thing. I was too introverted. But, in retrospect, I could see how elements of it could be fun. Does seem to be an extension of high school clique affiliation dynamics.

In any case, to me this is a freedom to associate type thing. I’d be inclined not to outlaw them. But, as they are quasi affiliated university organizations that include dorm-like student housing, I might consider RAs or other elements to improve safety with regard to alcohol mis-use and other sorts of stupid frat tricks. Eg the concept of a sorority mother that lived in the house.

My perception was fraternities were ground zero for “bro culture,” and that both fraternities and sororities had organized cheating efforts... eg copies of exams and such. That sort of thing should be strongly discouraged.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

I'm not encouraging my daughter to get involved in the sorority scene, but if she wants to, fine. My son, aka Bluto Blutarsky, enjoyed the heck out of it though so I can see the appeal. For me, the only appeal that made me sometimes regret not joining one was the built in sports teams for intramural competition.

To me, it always seemed sort of fun and silly, but to each his own.

 

[goldmom]

Hmm.

I never engaged with fraternities in college. I think I went to one fraternity party. Was invited to rush one. Guy thought I’d raise their average gpa. Didn’t bother to look it up. Probably would not have been selected. Culturally, this was not my thing. I was too introverted. But, in retrospect, I could see how elements of it could be fun. Does seem to be an extension of high school clique affiliation dynamics.

In any case, to me this is a freedom to associate type thing. I’d be inclined not to outlaw them. But, as they are quasi affiliated university organizations that include dorm-like student housing, I might consider RAs or other elements to improve safety with regard to alcohol mis-use and other sorts of stupid frat tricks. Eg the concept of a sorority mother that lived in the house.

My perception was fraternities were ground zero for “bro culture,” and that both fraternities and sororities had organized cheating efforts... eg copies of exams and such. That sort of thing should be strongly discouraged.

I never heard of organized cheating. My GPA proves it...
And the "student housing" is off campus and not university owned.

 

[Banditking]

I never heard of organized cheating. My GPA proves it...
And the "student housing" is off campus and not university owned.

Regarding the former, when I was in school, both football players and frats had banks of tests from prior semesters. These were not available to other students. This is what I mean by organized cheating. It didn’t matter to me regarding my gpa as an “a” is an “a” but it’s an unfair advantage.

As far as the latter, this was my point regarding quasi affiliated organization. Frat houses operate like dorms but with no supervision because they are off campus. Maybe a reform would be to require “House mothers” or resident assistants to provide some policing of stupid behavior.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

Regarding the former, when I was one school, both football players and stats, had banks of tests from prior semesters. These were not available to other students. This is what I mean by organized cheating. It didn’t matter to me regarding my gpa as an “a” is an “a” but it’s an unfair advantage.

As far as the latter, this was my point regarding quasi affiliated organization. Frat houses operate like dorms but with no supervision because they are off campus. Maybe a reform would be to require “House mothers” or resident assistants to provide some policing of stupid behavior.

Good idea. And let’s put a nanny in every other off campus student residence as well!

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

I never heard of organized cheating. My GPA proves it...
And the "student housing" is off campus and not university owned.

When I was there, the frats has previous tests from various professors. They kept them in an organized fashion and used them. I didn't view this as cheating. I viewed this is good prep material for those willing to take the time to learn the material that the professor thought was important.

 

[RTM58]

When I was there, the frats has previous tests from various professors. They kept them in an organized fashion and used them. I didn't view this as cheating. I viewed this is good prep material for those willing to take the time to learn the material that the professor thought was important.

And from personal experience, not rumor, I can say organized and "test banks" are a serious push much to my dismay. I'm sure the internet has leveled the field.

 

[funksouljon]

My wife's experience at a much smaller school in a sorority seems very different than the ones I observed at FSU. It was apparently the same for the fraternities. So it may very well be the party school aspect of FSU as much as the greek life.

I will say that every time I went to the sorority houses at FSU they always had a house mom on site or around. The guiding hand of a grown women / parenting was, IMO, a good thing. Especially compared to the interactions I had with the fraternities.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

And from personal experience, not rumor, I can say organized and test banks are a serious push much to my dismay. I'm sure the internet has leveled the field.

In law school, professors would encourage it. They would have the library keep the on file and accessible to students. As an instructor, tests should be viewed as another learning opportunity rather than a sorting mechanism wherein you attempt to create a standard distribution of grades.

 

[Banditking]

In law school, professors would encourage it. They would have the library keep the on file and accessible to students. As an instructor, tests should be viewed as another learning opportunity rather than a sorting mechanism wherein you attempt to create a standard distribution of grades.

Right. But it has to be evenly available. And, in the older days, professors often used the same questions in subsequent years. Recognition is not the same thing as understanding.

 

[Banditking]

Good idea. And let’s put a nanny in every other off campus student residence as well!

If it’s an off campus dorm and not apartments, sure. Seems like you’d prevent a lot of deaths, hospital trips, and rapes.

 

[OrlandNole]

All this thread needs is an appearance from resident Fraterno American TC and it will be complete.

 

[RunRonnieRun]

If it’s an off campus dorm and not apartments, sure. Seems like you’d prevent a lot of deaths, hospital trips, and rapes.

No, no, no.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. All student housing.

 

[Banditking]

No, no, no.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. All student housing.

Frats are not regular off campus student housing situations.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

At some point, if the greek system becomes a distraction from the core mission of a university, it needs to be done away with.

Just seems to me much of what is accomplished via those structures can be done without them given the seemingly frequent scandals and negative attention they attract.

The rest of the world is catching up and some passing us by and we're here arguing about frats and not the things that will help us maintain our edge, like more rigorous coursework.

 

[goldmom]

Adding to that, many college students gain almisf


Frats are not regular off campus student housing situations.

Correct. They're privately owned by a national organization, that at the end of the day is independent of any university.

An organization that generally draws its membership from an age group who tend to be college age individuals. Free to join any organization-
I wonder if fraternities maintain identity through IFC as merely a historical courtesy?

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Curious how frat and sorority houses comply with federal fair housing act regulations.

I would assume there's a carve out for them but if the trend of reduced sanctioning by universities (and/or disassociation from IFC) continue, they may no longer receive whatever benefit they currently have.

Someone in housing law could prob opine on this better than I.

 

[RTM58]

In law school, professors would encourage it. They would have the library keep the on file and accessible to students. As an instructor, tests should be viewed as another learning opportunity rather than a sorting mechanism wherein you attempt to create a standard distribution of grades.

The Ivies have a similar take.

 

[More Kirk Less Spock]

Right. But it has to be evenly available. And, in the older days, professors often used the same questions in subsequent years. Recognition is not the same thing as understanding.

totally agree with both points

 

[goldmom]

Curious how frat and sorority houses comply with federal fair housing act regulations.

I would assume there's a carve out for them but if the trend of reduced sanctioning by universities (and/or disassociation from IFC) continue, they may no longer receive whatever benefit they currently have.

Someone in housing law could prob opine on this better than I.

No public monies are used, and the properties are paid for by the members. Not sure a carve out is needed. It's not dissimilar from a co- op.

 

[321Nole]

When I was in grad school my professor figured out that a specific sorority had his test. Instead of making a stink out of it, he just trolled them by changing two of the remaining three tests left for that semester. So they alternated between getting 95%'s and 25%'s for the semester. We would get together to compile the scores afterwards and have laughs all around as they all got the same exact score and had no idea they were being trolled.

It was a shame because it was one of those classes where you could drop your lowest test score if you scored higher in the final. They could have passed easily if they had just studied a little for the final. None of them figured it out and they all flunked.

 

[seminole4life1]

When I was in grad school my professor figured out that a specific sorority had his test. Instead of making a stink out of it, he just trolled them by changing two of the remaining three tests left for that semester. So they alternated between getting 95%'s and 25%'s for the semester. We would get together to compile the scores afterwards and have laughs all around as they all got the same exact score and had no idea they were being trolled.

It was a shame because it was one of those classes where you could drop your lowest test score if you scored higher in the final. They could have passed easily if they had just studied a little for the final. None of them figured it out and they all flunked.

How did he figure out a specific sorority had it?

 

[321Nole]

How did he figure out a specific sorority had it?

I think it had gone on a couple semesters before he caught it. He was the type to interact a lot in class and I think he just noticed a recurring disconnect between the level of understanding shown during class versus the test scores.

 

[Nole-4-Life]

Wouldn't shock me one bit if the college greek system gets #metoo'd within a decade.

Actually they'll probably go this route....

 

[seminole4life1]

I think it had gone on a couple semesters before he caught it. He was the type to interact a lot in class and I think he just noticed a recurring disconnect between the level of understanding shown during class versus the test scores.

I'm sure he paid special attention to those sorority sisters... or maybe he just realized the same test year after year was allowing all sorts of students to copy (I remember Southgate kids had a ton of old Tommie Wright exams back in the day) and the grad school nerds made the common enemy the sorority girls.

 

[321Nole]

I'm sure he paid special attention to those sorority sisters... or maybe he just realized the same test year after year was allowing all sorts of students to copy (I remember Southgate kids had a ton of old Tommie Wright exams back in the day) and the grad school nerds made the common enemy the sorority girls.

Your first two points are on the money. As far as your last point, a few of the grad school nerds in the room laughing were sorority girls themselves. I don't think any of us considered the students to be the enemy.

P.s. did this happen to you once or something?

 

[seminole4life1]

Your first two points are on the money. As far as your last point, a few of the grad school nerds in the room laughing were sorority girls themselves. I don't think any of us considered the students to be the enemy.

P.s. did this happen to you once or something?

No I just think you are illustrating my earlier point that there were probably multiple groups of students that had access to the old test and either you or someone else labeled it as a specific sorority issue because one girl that was loud and wore letters was an offender. The random that had a black tshirt on and also bombed the exams after the changes wasn't nearly as memorable.

 

[321Nole]

No I just think you are illustrating my earlier point that there were probably multiple groups of students that had access to the old test and either you or someone else labeled it as a specific sorority issue because one girl that was loud and wore letters was an offender. The random that had a black tshirt on and also bombed the exams after the changes wasn't nearly as memorable.

I'm not arguing with you on any of these points.

 

[NoleOne]

According to Ira' tweets, at least one trustee was upset about what he [the trustee] called a tax on greek organization to fund the extra staffing oversight office that Thrasher wants to create.

What a terrible analogy by the trustee.

In other words, instead of the greek organization members paying the costs to oversee the greek organizations failing to self-police, the trustee would rather the whole FSU student body pay the costs to oversee greek organizations failing to self-police.

Stupid.

 

[goldmom]

What a terrible analogy by the trustee.

In other words, instead of the greek organization members paying the costs to oversee the greek organizations failing to self-police, the trustee would rather the whole FSU student body pay the costs to oversee greek organizations failing to self-police.

Stupid.

Perhaps he was objecting to the fact that Greeks had to pay more than other organizations who were seeking new members.
I understand that fraternities at CU-Boulder have gone the off campus route, disbanding the IFC-campus oversight, and they're still thriving. Which is what I think would happen at FSU.

I wholeheartedly agree that somewhere in this there's a re-set button that is in need of pushing, but there's also some extreme reactions here as well.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

I had very few interactions or thoughts about Greek life when I was a student. I did not have the time or money to be involved, even if I had found it interesting or useful. I had a couple of friends who were a part of the first group of pikes to come back on campus. I liked those guys and briefly considered their encouragement to join. Regardless, my opinion and perspective on Greek life was neutral to slightly positive, until I started working in university mental health. Having worked in that setting for several years now, I have a very negative perspective on Greek life, and I strongly believe that these organizations need to be removed from campus.

 

[RTM58]

Knowing many Pike's, then and now, you sir check ZERO, probably less than ZERO, boxes in the perceptive recruit category. That said, cool story brah!

I literally spit my drink out while reading your post.



FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY GREEK COMMUNITY 2012
Total Dollars Raised for Philanthropic Efforts: $534,588
Total Number of Community Service Hours: 25,700.25

FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY GREEK COMMUNITY 2013
Total Dollars Raised for Philanthropic Efforts: $864,627
Total Number of Community Service Hours: 62,794

 

[seminole4life1]

Knowing many Pike's, then and now, you sir check ZERO, probably less than ZERO, boxes in the perceptive recruit category. That said, cool story brah!

I literally spit my drink out while reading your post.



FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY GREEK COMMUNITY 2012
Total Dollars Raised for Philanthropic Efforts: $534,588
Total Number of Community Service Hours: 25,700.25

FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY GREEK COMMUNITY 2013
Total Dollars Raised for Philanthropic Efforts: $864,627
Total Number of Community Service Hours: 62,794

Not sure of UCLA's exact years but the Pikes were not strong in the early 2000's. Some nice guys but far from the "big" fraternity on campus they built themselves back up to be. If he was around 1999-2003 they certainly would have been recruiting him hard, as they were anyone that walked by.

 

[FSU_UCLA]

Not sure of UCLA's exact years but the Pikes were not strong in the early 2000's. Some nice guys but far from the "big" fraternity on campus they built themselves back up to be. If he was around 1999-2003 they certainly would have been recruiting him hard, as they were anyone that walked by.

I was there from 97-01. They were trying to get back on-campus and had a very bad reputation. I had a 4.0 GPA and was active in all of the major honor societies, including being president of Psi Chi for a couple of years and being an early inductee into PBK. They needed and wanted goody two shoeses like me back then.

 

[OrlandNole]

I was there from 97-01. They were trying to get back on-campus and had a very bad reputation. I had a 4.0 GPA and was active in all of the major honor societies, including being president of Psi Chi for a couple of years and being an early inductee into PBK. They needed and wanted goody two shoeses like me back then.

Naturally, UCLA joined Lambda Lambda Lambda instead.

 

[TarponSpringsNole]

What philanthropic activities does a frat do during college?

From my perspective there really wasn't anything that my friends in frats were doing of a philanthropic nature.

Raise money for various causes through volunteering. Philanthropy was and is part in parcel of Greek life.
We volunteered hours for road clean ups and the like.
My fraternity (lol!) was a very diverse group, and wasn’t cookie cutter with the bids they offered. Guess I’m still technically, ‘a brother in the bond.’

 

[RTM58]

....

 

[seminole4life1]

....

Ha, I wish I saw the pre edit. When were you at FSU RTM?

 

[TarponSpringsNole]

Ha, I wish I saw the pre edit. When were you at FSU RTM?

Me too!

 

[RTM58]

Me too!

I simply responded, like the Marines once a brother always a "brother." A portion of the post was edited by a mod, so I edited the rest.