The Economic Disaster of the Pandemic Response

[fsufool]

I recognize the definition ‘youths’ varies specifically from ‘teenage’, but suicides haven’t been ‘relatively flat since 1990’. Things got better, and then worse:

This isn't on you, but this is data mining.............you find ages that fit the results you are looking for.

Suicides for teenagers, as tragic as they are, are not generally a huge societal problem. (Although some would say even 1 teenage suicide is a huge problem, the rate is really low)
The group with the highest suicides are middle age individuals. (47% of all suicides). Men slightly higher than women. White, non-hispanic American Indian and Alaska Native higher rates by race. The highest RATE of suicides are in the 75+ age groups. (19 per 100,000). Specific to men 75+ the rate is 40.5 per 100,000.

Compare those rates with what you charts say about age 10-24 and you see a huge difference.

Groups like Veterans and gay/transgender have higher suicide rates.

There is anomic suicide, characterized by people not knowing where they fit within their societies. This is a state of moral disorder where people do not know the limits on their desires and are constantly in a state of disappointment.

Egoistic suicide, a prolonged sense of not belonging, of not being integrated in a community is another large category of suicides. It results from the suicide's sense that they have no tether. This absence can give rise to meaninglessness, apathy, melancholy, and depression.

This type of suicide is probably the largest category of suicides. We see this type in middle age suicides and old age suicides.

I just don't see the data that would support your theory that cell phones and social media has much of an affect on suicide rates.

I will also mention that suicide rates for gay people dropped when gay marriage became legal in some states. This speaks to the ability to see a future for yourself within the norms of society being a very important factor in positive human psychology.

Suicide rates peaked in 2018 and dropped 5% between 2018-2020.

But, like you say..........we can disagree.

 

[surfnole]

Yeah, I bet the stats support that...

That's death due to covid not catching covid. As the CDC has even admitted the vaccination does nothing to stop the spread of covid.

 

[BelemNole]

That's death due to covid not catching covid. As the CDC has even admitted the vaccination does nothing to stop the spread of covid.

Ah, it just keeps you alive. Stupid vaccine!

 

[surfnole]

Ah, it just keeps you alive. Stupid vaccine!

Less severe illness was not the motivation for pushing the vaccine, firing those who didn't comply, censoring individuals who questioned the effectiveness of the vaccine, threatening doctors with loss of medical license if they questioned the orthodoxy and in Canada seizing banks accounts, freezing credit cards, impounding trucks, taking away livelihood without even a court order or due process.

Less severe illness was not the reason for Fauci pushing vaccine mandates on children.

CDC changed the definition of vaccine and vaccination during Covid. Pfizer promised 95% efficacy, and it wasn't efficacy toward more serious illness.

The list goes on.

What happened to "My body, my choice?"

 

[GeddyLee09]

Less severe illness was not the motivation for pushing the vaccine, firing those who didn't comply, censorining individuals who questioned the effectiveness of the vaccine, threatening doctors with loss of medical license if they questioned the orthodoxy and in Canada seizing banks accounts, freezing credit cards, impounding trucks, taking away livelihood without even a court order or due process.

Less severe illness was the reason for Fauci pushing vaccine mandates on children.

CDC changed the definition of vaccine and vaccination during Covid. Pfizer promised 95% efficacy, and it wasn't efficacy toward more serious illness.

The list goes on.

What happened to "My body, my choice?"

This could go south in a hurry.

 

[BelemNole]

Less severe illness was not the motivation for pushing the vaccine, firing those who didn't comply, censorining individuals who questioned the effectiveness of the vaccine, threatening doctors with loss of medical license if they questioned the orthodoxy and in Canada seizing banks accounts, freezing credit cards, impounding trucks, taking away livelihood without even a court order or due process.

Less severe illness was the reason for Fauci pushing vaccine mandates on children.

CDC changed the definition of vaccine and vaccination during Covid. Pfizer promised 95% efficacy, and it wasn't efficacy toward more serious illness.

The list goes on.

What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Yeah, it's terrible that all the vaccine did was keep us alive. Who can I sue?

 

[NoleSince1961]

Less severe illness was not the motivation for pushing the vaccine, firing those who didn't comply, censorining individuals who questioned the effectiveness of the vaccine, threatening doctors with loss of medical license if they questioned the orthodoxy and in Canada seizing banks accounts, freezing credit cards, impounding trucks, taking away livelihood without even a court order or due process.

Less severe illness was the reason for Fauci pushing vaccine mandates on children.

CDC changed the definition of vaccine and vaccination during Covid. Pfizer promised 95% efficacy, and it wasn't efficacy toward more serious illness.

The list goes on.

What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Hmmm.
I thought a pretty major motivation for “pushing the vaccine” was to reduce both the strain on overtaxed health care resources and the excess deaths caused by Covid severity.

And to the extent that vaccination does indeed reduce likelihood of the more severe reactions, doesn’t that motivation prove substantiated?

Or perhaps you just understand the science better than all those evil vaccine pushers, and since vaccination didn’t stop all spread, it was a bunch of hullabaloo about nothing?

 

[surfnole]

*****
Yeah, it's terrible that all the vaccine did was keep us alive. Who can I sue?
*****
You are right. You can't sue. Pfizer and Moderna have no liabilty per government agreement to produce the vaccine. Perhaps Boeing should try this technique the next time they develop a new airliner...oh wait Boeing did bypass government inspections when the FAA allowed them to self-certify the 737-Max.

There are however lawsuits in progress for government officials who overstepped their bounds and overstepped the law. For example the NYC sanitation workers. From CBS news:

"New York City sanitation workers who were fired for not getting vaccinated against COVID-19 should be reinstated and given back pay, a state judge ruled in a decision released Tuesday."

***********
I thought a pretty major motivation for “pushing the vaccine” was to reduce both the strain on overtaxed health care resources and the excess deaths caused by Covid severity.

And to the extent that vaccination does indeed reduce likelihood of the more severe reactions, doesn’t that motivation prove substantiated?
************

Yes. Probably a major motiviation but not THE motiviation. I never got the vaccine because I wanted to "lessen" the severity. I got the vax because I didn't want to catch Covid. Nevertheless, after getting vaxed in Sep 2021, I got Covid in December 2021. So much for the vax. I suspect it was the Omicron version since symptoms were no worse the a mild cold/flu and lasted maybe two days. Friends not vaxxed had similar type symptoms.

Now that I have had the initial vax AND covid, I consider myself immunized. The CDC now considers previous Covid as immunization...that is they did AFTER they didn't consider it of any medical benefit.

Nothing in my posts suggests any scientific knowledge on my part. The vaccine doesn't stop ANY spread to my knowledge, based on what I read, who gets it etc. Pfizer never tested whether the vaccine stopped transmission. This was admitted by a Pfizer exec a few months back in a European government-type syposium. Pfizer was moving "at the speed of science".

Covid was/is real. Vaccines help with severity, but not prevention or transmission.. Governments turned it into a policitcal issue for power or fear etc. It's not coincendetnal that mask mandates were dropped by Biden just prior to the State of the Union. How convenient for Covid severity to follow the US political calendar.

 

[NoleSince1961]

*****
Yeah, it's terrible that all the vaccine did was keep us alive. Who can I sue?
*****
You are right. You can't sue. Pfizer and Moderna have no liabilty per government agreement to produce the vaccine. Perhaps Boeing should try this technique the next time they develop a new airliner...oh wait Boeing did bypass government inspections when the FAA allowed them to self-certify the 737-Max.

There are however lawsuits in progress for government officials who overstepped their bounds and overstepped the law. For example the NYC sanitation workers. From CBS news:

"New York City sanitation workers who were fired for not getting vaccinated against COVID-19 should be reinstated and given back pay, a state judge ruled in a decision released Tuesday."

***********
I thought a pretty major motivation for “pushing the vaccine” was to reduce both the strain on overtaxed health care resources and the excess deaths caused by Covid severity.

And to the extent that vaccination does indeed reduce likelihood of the more severe reactions, doesn’t that motivation prove substantiated?
************

Yes. Probably a major motiviation but not THE motiviation. I never got the vaccine because I wanted to "lessen" the severity. I got the vax because I didn't want to catch Covid. Nevertheless, after getting vaxed in Sep 2021, I got Covid in December 2021. So much for the vax. I suspect it was the Omicron version since symptoms were no worse the a mild cold/flu and lasted maybe two days. Friends not vaxxed had similar type symptoms.

Now that I have had the initial vax AND covid, I consider myself immunized. The CDC now considers previous Covid as immunization...that is they did AFTER they didn't consider it of any medical benefit.

Nothing in my posts suggests any scientific knowledge on my part. The vaccine doesn't stop ANY spread to my knowledge, based on what I read, who gets it etc. Pfizer never tested whether the vaccine stopped transmission. This was admitted by a Pfizer exec a few months back in a European government-type syposium. Pfizer was moving "at the speed of science".

Covid was/is real. Vaccines help with severity, but not prevention or transmission.. Governments turned it into a policitcal issue for power or fear etc. It's not coincendetnal that mask mandates were dropped by Biden just prior to the State of the Union. How convenient for Covid severity to follow the US political calendar.

Wow. Not interested in joining you in any of those rabbit holes you are so consistently attracted to. Good luck with all that.
Glad for your and your loved ones’ sake you got vaxxed.

 

[bcherod]

Less severe illness was not the motivation for pushing the vaccine, firing those who didn't comply, censoring individuals who questioned the effectiveness of the vaccine, threatening doctors with loss of medical license if they questioned the orthodoxy and in Canada seizing banks accounts, freezing credit cards, impounding trucks, taking away livelihood without even a court order or due process.

Less severe illness was not the reason for Fauci pushing vaccine mandates on children.

CDC changed the definition of vaccine and vaccination during Covid. Pfizer promised 95% efficacy, and it wasn't efficacy toward more serious illness.

The list goes on.

What happened to "My body, my choice?"

Yeah, what happened? And don't get me started on My body, MY choice.

 

[BelemNole]

*****
Yeah, it's terrible that all the vaccine did was keep us alive. Who can I sue?
*****
You are right. You can't sue. Pfizer and Moderna have no liabilty per government agreement to produce the vaccine. Perhaps Boeing should try this technique the next time they develop a new airliner...oh wait Boeing did bypass government inspections when the FAA allowed them to self-certify the 737-Max.

There are however lawsuits in progress for government officials who overstepped their bounds and overstepped the law. For example the NYC sanitation workers. From CBS news:

"New York City sanitation workers who were fired for not getting vaccinated against COVID-19 should be reinstated and given back pay, a state judge ruled in a decision released Tuesday."

***********
I thought a pretty major motivation for “pushing the vaccine” was to reduce both the strain on overtaxed health care resources and the excess deaths caused by Covid severity.

And to the extent that vaccination does indeed reduce likelihood of the more severe reactions, doesn’t that motivation prove substantiated?
************

Yes. Probably a major motiviation but not THE motiviation. I never got the vaccine because I wanted to "lessen" the severity. I got the vax because I didn't want to catch Covid. Nevertheless, after getting vaxed in Sep 2021, I got Covid in December 2021. So much for the vax. I suspect it was the Omicron version since symptoms were no worse the a mild cold/flu and lasted maybe two days. Friends not vaxxed had similar type symptoms.

Now that I have had the initial vax AND covid, I consider myself immunized. The CDC now considers previous Covid as immunization...that is they did AFTER they didn't consider it of any medical benefit.

Nothing in my posts suggests any scientific knowledge on my part. The vaccine doesn't stop ANY spread to my knowledge, based on what I read, who gets it etc. Pfizer never tested whether the vaccine stopped transmission. This was admitted by a Pfizer exec a few months back in a European government-type syposium. Pfizer was moving "at the speed of science".

Covid was/is real. Vaccines help with severity, but not prevention or transmission.. Governments turned it into a policitcal issue for power or fear etc. It's not coincendetnal that mask mandates were dropped by Biden just prior to the State of the Union. How convenient for Covid severity to follow the US political calendar.

Man, you got cheated! It didn’t keep you from getting sick, it just kept you alive. I’d demand a refund!!

 

[noletaire]

Man, you got cheated! It didn’t keep you from getting sick, it just kept you alive. I’d demand a refund!!

Translation: we need to save the world but if you don't agree with the way we want to go about saving the world, then its better off that you're dead.
Typical response from the professed humanitarians.

 

[BelemNole]

Translation: we need to save the world but if you don't agree with the way we want to go about saving the world, then its better off that you're dead.
Typical response from the professed humanitarians.

Want to try again. This time in English.

 

[GeddyLee09]

A worldwide pandemic that overwhelmed healthcare systems and killed at least 6.5 million people. As a society, we have typically believed and enforced that a person’s bodily autonomy is limited when a person’s body poses a significant threat to another person’s wellbeing. This is why every public school, health system, law enforcement agency, military, etc has typically enforced vaccine mandates. The Covid vaccines are our best tools, other than total lockdowns, to reduce the number of people killed by this pandemic, and we chose to enforce the use of those tools.

The WHO estimates that over 17.9 million people die annually from Cardio Vascular related issues. That would be 53.7 million deaths over 3 years more than 8 times that of covid.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Wow. Not interested in joining you in any of those rabbit holes you are so consistently attracted to. Good luck with all that.
Glad for your and your loved ones’ sake you got vaxxed.

Not interested in the rabbit holes but I am curious as to the how and why of it all. I don't think it was some nefarious plot by Fauci to help thin the herd but, I also don't believe it started by someone eating Pangolin brains either. The root cause is likely somewhere in the middle. Maybe we will know right after they tell us about JFK and Area 51.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Covid is contagious and exacerbates cardiovasvcular issues, which are typically not contagious. Other than that connection, I am not seeing the relevance of cardiovascular epidemiology to Covid.

Between 33 and 48 million people have died of HIV. 650k in 2021.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Between 33 and 48 million people have died of HIV. 650k in 2021.

What are the monkeypox numbers? Is that still a thing?

 

[GeddyLee09]

What are the monkeypox numbers? Is that still a thing?

70k cases globally. It didnt seem to gain much traction in the media.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Yes, HIV has been a devastating pandemic for many years, and the initial lack of serious response from the world resulted in a great deal of suffering and loss.

Thankfully, a lot of the very difficult development of treatments for HIV over the decades contributed to our ability to generate an effective vaccine for Covid remarkably quickly.

HIV was an absolutely terrifying and devastating virus, the contraction of which was death sentence. That we now have both treatments for HIV that essentially cure it and prophylaxis that effectively prevents its transmission is an amazing testament to the power of human ingenuity and efficacy when we are motivated toward a shared goal.

I am hopeful that we have learned from the HIV pandemic, and I believe that we are implementing that learning in our response to the Covid pandemic.

Interesting take.

 

[NoleSince1961]

The WHO estimates that over 17.9 million people die annually from Cardio Vascular related issues. That would be 53.7 million deaths over 3 years more than 8 times that of covid.

Thanks for that random factoid.
Equally relevant to the thread topic -

25 Amazing Science Facts That Are Weird, Wild, and True

These weird, wild, and totally true science facts prove that reality is often stranger—and a lot more interesting—than fiction.

www.rd.com

 

[GeddyLee09]

Thanks for that random factoid.
Equally relevant to the thread topic -

25 Amazing Science Facts That Are Weird, Wild, and True

These weird, wild, and totally true science facts prove that reality is often stranger—and a lot more interesting—than fiction.

www.rd.com

26 needs amending. I have a ex that got there already.

 

[GeddyLee09]

Thanks for that random factoid.
Equally relevant to the thread topic -

25 Amazing Science Facts That Are Weird, Wild, and True

These weird, wild, and totally true science facts prove that reality is often stranger—and a lot more interesting—than fiction.

www.rd.com

Touché. Its slow today so seeing who gets rattled easily.

 

[goldmom]

The WHO reported this week that Covid cases globally are down by 90% since February.
Good news.

 

[NoleSince1961]

26 needs amending. I have a ex that got there already.

Awesome, well played

 

[GeddyLee09]

While were at it I see that 19 must have been discovered by the misfortune of an unnamed astronaut? I bet it wasn't a burp either.

 

[seminoleed]

Sadly, it looks like this site will be going downhill, a la HROT. Pity.

 

[F4Gary]

While were at it I see that 19 must have been discovered by the misfortune of an unnamed astronaut? I bet it wasn't a burp either.

Vurp.

 

[bcherod]

The WHO estimates that over 17.9 million people die annually from Cardio Vascular related issues. That would be 53.7 million deaths over 3 years more than 8 times that of covid.

Off topic. It's not a virus, and is directly related to people's lifestyle, much of which can be prevented by weight loss, not smoking, and a better diet.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Sadly, it looks like this site will be going downhill, a la HROT. Pity.

Why? People complained about limiting the topics of discussion. You're complaining about not being as restrictive?

 

[surfnole]

Not interested in the rabbit holes but I am curious as to the how and why of it all. I don't think it was some nefarious plot by Fauci to help thin the herd but, I also don't believe it started by someone eating Pangolin brains either. The root cause is likely somewhere in the middle. Maybe we will know right after they tell us about JFK and Area 51.

And maybe after they tell how covid started and who killed JFK and area 51 they can tell us how pelosi's husband attacker just walked into the house of the third most powerful person in the USA by breaking in a door window. I can't even get into a cannabis store in Florida without going through more security..

 

[DFSNOLE]

And maybe after they tell how covid started and who killed JFK and area 51 they can tell us how pelosi's husband attacker just walked into the house of the third most powerful person in the USA by breaking in a door window. I can't even get into a cannabis store in Florida without going through more security..

 

[NoleSince1961]

And not only that, but we’re living in the era of “every opinion is equally valid dadgummit!!!”
SMH

 

[overthemoon]

I have one for sale if your interested. Its a 5.56 vs the .223. They are getting a little has been as assault rifles go since everyone has them. I went with the Sig MCX instead.

Remind me not to knock on your door after dark.

 

[noletaire]

Tin foil is believing our nation is controlled by elite shape-shifting reptilians.... but questioning and thinking there is more to the story than the Warren Commission's report or that the COVID pandemic was naturally occurring phenomena given the gain of function research that is being conducted in both China is far being a conspiracy junkie. One would have to be very naive (to put it mildly) not to question it.

Our very history since, at least the Second War, is replete with cover ups, lies, media distortions. Judging by your posts over the years, I'd put you in your mid to late 60s, if not a older. You certainly would be no stranger to the farce that brought on the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and the revelations of the Pentagon Papers.

And to be quite truthful, the first I thought of when Pelosi's husband was attacked, is how does that happen given the amount of security they have. I have a good friend, childhood friend, who worked for the State Department, I'd be afraid to type on here or any site, some of things he's experienced during his service. One thing is for certain: the information we receive from the major media networks (from MSNBC to Fox) contains very little truth.

IMHO, I see a future where questioning anything of substance that deserves rational investigation will be discounted and marginalized (if not criminalized) as wacko conspiracy theorists... therein lies the greatest of dangers.
"In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"
Respectfully yours,

 

[BelemNole]

Sadly, it looks like this site will be going downhill, a la HROT. Pity.

 

[ParooKid]

The whole thing was a fiasco, and its ultimate impact will not be known for decades (i.e., tons of kids fell behind educationally and socially, and they will never catch up).

Funny to me to see the vaccine extremists now asking for "amnesty." LOL.

I haven't had even one shot and will not get one. Once it has been lab tested for 5-10 years, they can get back to me. The idea of them jabbing a needle full of that stuff in a five year old just sends shivers down my spine.

 

[bcherod]

Tin foil is believing our nation is controlled by elite shape-shifting reptilians.... but questioning and thinking there is more to the story than the Warren Commission's report or that the COVID pandemic was naturally occurring phenomena given the gain of function research that is being conducted in both China is far being a conspiracy junkie. One would have to be very naive (to put it mildly) not to question it.

Our very history since, at least the Second War, is replete with cover ups, lies, media distortions. Judging by your posts over the years, I'd put you in your mid to late 60s, if not a older. You certainly would be no stranger to the farce that brought on the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and the revelations of the Pentagon Papers.

And to be quite truthful, the first I thought of when Pelosi's husband was attacked, is how does that happen given the amount of security they have. I have a good friend, childhood friend, who worked for the State Department, I'd be afraid to type on here or any site, some of things he's experienced during his service. One thing is for certain: the information we receive from the major media networks (from MSNBC to Fox) contains very little truth.

IMHO, I see a future where questioning anything of substance that deserves rational investigation will be discounted and marginalized (if not criminalized) as wacko conspiracy theorists... therein lies the greatest of dangers.
"In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"
Respectfully yours,

To this day, I am still baffled by some things.

I grew up in Japan during the 60's. (AF brat) A few years ago a friend asked me if I knew when the Viet Nam war started.
I told him 1956, with the fall of Dien Bien Phu, and how it gradually escalated,

He started yelling at me that I didn't have a clue, that it started in 1965. I was dumbfounded, confused that he actually believed that.

I was like, well, then pray tell what we were doing in Japan in 1963 and before?

We lived near the flight line and we were well aware of the 105's taking off in formations of three or five. We were aware of those that did not return. The North Vietnamese did not report the prisoners they captured, but we found out because Japanese TV had film of prisoners being paraded down the streets of Hanoi, (one being a close family friend).

Even after explaining that, the guy still insisted it was 1965.

There were many things my dad would allude to over the years, but when I'd go back and ask him, he'd say, "I don't recall."

 

[bcherod]

I haven't had even one shot and will not get one. Once it has been lab tested for 5-10 years, they can get back to me. The idea of them jabbing a needle full of that stuff in a five year old just sends shivers down my spine.

Interesting take. My parents took the risk and put my brother in the polio trials. He was a "polio pioneer". One of the lab rats.

The military thought nothing of loading kids and their parents up on vaccines before they were shipped overseas, and we all had yellow shot records.

OTOH, there is speculation from my BRATS groups that those of us that had all those many vaccines, have greater immunity to a variety of diseases that others do not have.

 

[GeddyLee09]

And not only that, but we’re living in the era of “every opinion is equally valid dadgummit!!!”
SMH

Sadly that’s the way it should be. However crazy or outlandish that opinion is.

 

[GeddyLee09]

To this day, I am still baffled by some things.

I grew up in Japan during the 60's. (AF brat) A few years ago a friend asked me if I knew when the Viet Nam war started.
I told him 1956, with the fall of Dien Bien Phu, and how it gradually escalated,

He started yelling at me that I didn't have a clue, that it started in 1965. I was dumbfounded, confused that he actually believed that.

I was like, well, then pray tell what we were doing in Japan in 1963 and before?

We lived near the flight line and we were well aware of the 105's taking off in formations of three or five. We were aware of those that did not return. The North Vietnamese did not report the prisoners they captured, but we found out because Japanese TV had film of prisoners being paraded down the streets of Hanoi, (one being a close family friend).

Even after explaining that, the guy still insisted it was 1965.

There were many things my dad would allude to over the years, but when I'd go back and ask him, he'd say, "I don't recall."

That’s the problem these days. People don’t have all the facts. Even those in the know don’t know everything.