The Unvacionated
- Thread starter surfnole
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Considering the board has self corrected in recent weeks, it’s certainly not as mean spirited as previous strolls down these conversations.
Politics suck, they really, really suck!
I can’t believe I’m a neocon, and I don’t even drink bud light!
Or any beer anymore
I can’t believe I’m a neocon, and I don’t even drink bud light!
Or any beer anymore
Rrrright. And how many opposition leaders in those countries are imprisoned or dead? Easy to be democratically elected if you eliminate the competition. If you know of any opposition leaders in Ukraine that Zelenskiy has offed please enlighten us.
I missed the part where Ukraine moved to occupy Russia. Not sure where the bad guy narrative to a country being attacked and defending themselves, knowing the context we have seen in European history, makes our support unprecedented or against our best interest. That being said this is a really interesting thread.
Unfortunately, the old-time conservatives are gone, closest thing might be Rand Paul. For someone to say that old time conservatives are RINOs is lacking understanding of what it means to be an "old time conservative"... or have a very different definition.
Taft or Goldwater would fit the bill.... again, long gone. Like you, not a fan of the Neo-cons.
Well, notice the absence of one particular dude....
Hell, I'm even agreeing with you on a couple of things, making this thread even more interesting on numerous levels.
Not sure if serious, if joking: good one. If not.... well..... SMH.
1999 Yugoslavia (or what remained left of it after the Bosnian Wars), a sovereign nation that posed NO threat to any nation outside of its borders
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You don't find it odd that we all the sudden have interest in eastern Europe when an outsider is all the sudden the leader? Russia started movement into the territory in 2014. Or is it as simple as us not playing pocket pool with Crimean industries?
Makes you wonder.... let's see, NO outrage over:
1) The 1st Chechen war.
2) The 2nd Chechen War.
3) Undeclared fighting in Moldova
4) Invasion of Georgia
5) Crimean takeover
But now the Ukraine.... completely different reaction... as if global peace and prosperity hinges on the Ukraine... a region that had been controlled by Russia for the last 300+ years and has only been sovereign for the last 30...
I have always found our role in conflict in Europe as interesting. I just wish it was consistent and not as politicized. I am completely disinterested in who is calling our plays. There is a bigger picture from my perspective.
Depends on which position you take on these issues:
1) did Chechnya have the right to secede from Russia?
2) Was Chechnya harboring terrorists like Afghanistan?
3) who instigated the aggression.
An attempt to occupy Ukraine, unprovoked (unless free elections and a growing relationships with the west) is our business. Because inevitably it’s the first of several dominos to fall.
The position you take on 1 and 2 will answer "who instigated the aggression". The U.S. had very little concern for the 1st Chechen War because at the time, the current administration considered Boris Yeltsin an ally.
In our own history, this nation used warfare to prevent secession... was Boris Yeltsin wrong to apply the same principles that we used in our experience with secession?
I am having a hard time of separating secession and occupation. Fully knowing through history of what comes next.
And I hope I am not coming off as dismissive or disrespectful. You bring up facts and valid arguments. My convictions are what they are. I hope that it comes across that way.
Well said and could not agree more. I guess the real question is, what picture are we actually painting?
Trying to figure out who is right or wrong in these things is always muddied
Unless we turn to scripture
I see it as all part of the end times prophecy , and it’s various pieces getting in alignment
1- the United States is not mentioned in the prophecy, even when Israel is attacked leading up to Armageddon
Surely we would come to Israel’s aid, unless were so weak we cannot. When china( aka the fed )makes its margin call and we’re no longer the USA
2- it talks of a 200 million man army, China has that
3- this talk of a financial global financial reset, and electronic worldwide banking system
#cant buy or sell without receiving the mark of the beast!
4- Russia is aligning with China and Iran, many governments are banking on China now over the US
5- inflation will be hyper inflation at some point
Jesus said “ wrong will be right and right will be wrong”, prior to my return!
Boy if this isn’t describing the world right now nothing is
Gotta look down the road folks, the pieces are falling into place
Look at the big picture, the battle of Good vs evil is taking place before our very eyes!
Ok have a Great day
Pastor itch
Unless we turn to scripture
I see it as all part of the end times prophecy , and it’s various pieces getting in alignment
1- the United States is not mentioned in the prophecy, even when Israel is attacked leading up to Armageddon
Surely we would come to Israel’s aid, unless were so weak we cannot. When china( aka the fed )makes its margin call and we’re no longer the USA
2- it talks of a 200 million man army, China has that
3- this talk of a financial global financial reset, and electronic worldwide banking system
#cant buy or sell without receiving the mark of the beast!
4- Russia is aligning with China and Iran, many governments are banking on China now over the US
5- inflation will be hyper inflation at some point
Jesus said “ wrong will be right and right will be wrong”, prior to my return!
Boy if this isn’t describing the world right now nothing is
Gotta look down the road folks, the pieces are falling into place
Look at the big picture, the battle of Good vs evil is taking place before our very eyes!
Ok have a Great day
Pastor itch
7 weeks. Ok. First off maybe your not actually reading my posts, I've clearly said numerous times I support the opposition of Putin but not with a proxy war. We allowed Putin to invade Ukraine before and we've allowed him to invade Moldova and Georgia at different times. As far as the election stuff is he the first government to interfere in an election? I wonder who wrote the playbook on that tactic? Ill agree on one thing that Putin is a thug but you put down a thug by taking them out not helping the weaklings fight them.
Building American hegemony is real. We organized the world under Bretton Woods in an carrot and stick formation over the Soviets. If you supported us generally against the Soviets, then we would protect trade routes and open our consumer base to you. That stance rebuilt the world, post WW2. However, we started to back away from globalization for various reasons. We allowed Russian incursions thinking that they would finally join the world in global trade using their oil and gas as their main trading component. In that space the US and western Europe provided the equipment and know how to them. However, Putin saw it as the west being weak and not willing to step up to them. He was wrong. There is historical reasons why they want to control Ukraine, mostly as a protective corridor from greater Europe and their need for its grain.
We now know they could never had won Ukraine in any meaningful way; just don't have the ability to control a country of that size. And we realized that we can use Ukraine as an effective way to finish the Russians for good. Demographically they are done, with fertility rates and demographic formations that make it impossible to recover (just not enough women in child bearing years). Militarily, they don't have the industrial base nor the knowhow to arm a modern military. Most of their equipment is 1-2 generations (tanks, airplanes, missiles, etc.) behind and they are already using weapons built/designed from the 1960s and 1970s. They have effectively neutered themselves.
Adding Finland and maybe Sweden to NATO is a big bonus. The real question is if the USA will continue to withdraw from globalization in favor of having a small regional based trading system which will actually make it stronger and no longer require it to maintain global trading routes with its Navy? Mexico, Canada, USA and a few South American countries like Columbia, Argentina, Chile (Lithium) and Bolivia (Lithium) would be all the USA would need going forward. Let the Europeans and the Asians protect their own trading routes and deal with the Middle East. Literally Russia and China are the only countries that we still are trying to contain and Israel and Taiwan are the only country we fully support, no questions asked that are outside of our region.
Ukraine has been independent since 1991.
Russia keeps invading them.
America's interests are to stop a dictator and enemy of the U.S. from taking over democratic nations.
History of Ukraine - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
America's interests are to stop a dictator and enemy of the U.S. from taking over democratic nations.
What about places like Guatemala, The Congo and Chile?
Why didnt we stop Putin the first couple times he invaded Ukraine? What about Georgia and Moldova?
Biggest problem I see still is it appears a good bunch want the US to play "world police". If the threat was so "imminent" we should pressure European allies into growing a set. Germany, Sweden, Italy, and France are more than capable of doing something. I wonder if we'd be so swift to assist Russia, China or North Korea if Britain or Australia was to invade them... or maybe THAT wouldn't be in our best interest. Better yet, maybe we wouldn't honor a non existent alliance.
Some you can, but universal electronic banking?
200 million man army?
Right is wrong, wrong is right?
Satans demons are working overtime !
All I am saying is it’s all part of this globalization and the pending one world order!
At no time in history has all the dots been in alignment like today for this to happen!
Just a different view on the world today imho
Wars are the biggest generator of money. Feed the machine.
What about Venezuela and Cuba, dictators in our very back yard
Why are we not kickin there asses to make regime changes?
Same can be said with the expansion of Ghengis Khan, Rome, Persia, Muslim conquest into Europe, Xing dynasty... the only reason we want to connect these dots is it affects us now.
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We are so deep in each other's pockets and those in charge don't have the balls to. Cuba is a dead state, Venezuela is almost there. We basically formed Central America through CIA terrorism to build the Panama Canal. Once we get our way, we wash our hands clean.
The blueprint for what you are saying is already there. The US footprint in Europe has been shrinking for years. 20 years ago there were large bases all over most of Europe, now there are just a handful and one or two large installations able to mount large scale offensives. Finland and Sweden in NATO really hamstrings the Russians as well as large land and air bases in Poland, Bulgaria and Romania. Russia is effectively cut off from the west with or without Ukraine. Them invading was a classic case of biting off more then they could chew.
I went to Russia years ago as part of a good will gesture. We sent people there and they sent people to us. The stark difference in technology was eye opening. Everyone said well they could be hiding all the good stuff which is true. However, you could see on the face of things they truly lacked the same defense infrastructure that the US and other countries have.
I was talking to a Navy buddy about this. People don't realize how ahead we really are verse everyone. Russia is still using Soviet era weaponry. China rarely creates its own technology. As much as people want to talk down the US, the reality is we hold every card in the deck. We wrote the book on virtually everything and those who have the knowledge to perform extraordinary acts generally end up here to further develop it.
The U.S. can't stop every dictator in the 3rd world. It's complicated. Especially if that dictator supports U.S. interests.
Previous administrations were weak with Putin. He kept pushing and pushing and we gave concessions.
Now we see where that got us.
In the countries I listed we installed those dictators. Also not all previous admins were weak with Putin just certain ones. He attacked other countries when he sensed weakness at the top.
America installed dictators that were friendly to the U.S. I'm not saying it's right but that's how it was, especially during the Cold War.
I think every administration was weak with Putin.
Why Putin Plays Our Presidents for Fools
I looked into his eyes once, and what I saw scared me half to death.
They are weak with Putin because he is no real threat to us. They are a decaying nation. The others fuel terrorist organizations & provide resources important to our economy. Putin would still be in the background if our politicians weren't so hell bent on using the Russians or even Ukraine as the reason elections have occurred the way they have the past 6 years.America installed dictators that were friendly to the U.S. I'm not saying it's right but that's how it was, especially during the Cold War.
I think every administration was weak with Putin.
Why Putin Plays Our Presidents for Fools
I looked into his eyes once, and what I saw scared me half to death.www.theatlantic.com
Why didn't NATO and the U.S. allow Russia to join NATO when Putin inquired about joining....
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True enough, though the minority Serbians living in Kosovo would say the same thing.
The ethnic strife between Kosovors and the Yugoslavian government was a longstanding conflict (which is worthy of a thread in of itself)... Still, the KLA's bid for secession and the hostilities between both sides did not threaten Europe....
Russia's bombing of cities was met with outrage by NATO and most of the world... yet crickets when NATO carpet bombed Serbian cities....
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