Vaccine mandates for student athletes
- Thread starter cgj0198
- Start date
Requiring young people to vaccinate against a virus which poses little to no threat to their health with a vaccine that has no long term data nor FDA approval is a very different situation that the preexisting vaccination mandates you are referring to.
Many people are very much more the vaccinations you are referring to as they pose a legitimate risk to our youth and the population as a whole. They have many years and or decades of data proving they are safe and have received official approval under the traditional approval process and standard of approval.
The COVID vaccine does not meet any of those standards above. This is why anyone especially the younger individuals should continue to have the right to determine whether they wish to receive this vaccine.
This is a dangerous precedent that is being set here. People need to look at the bigger picture much bigger than Covid. As someone who has spent time in Berlin this eerily resembles much of what was occurring in the DDR.
The idea that the government has such control over every aspect of your life and controls where you can and can not go or do is dangerous. There is nothing wrong with this when you agree with the government however once they have the president to preside over society it becomes very different once they decide to impose a belief different than yours. Everyone is happy when they are forced to do what they want wait till you are on the other side.
That is why what is happening today is so much bigger than Covid and we all need to see this regardless which side of the Covid debate you fall on.
When you are forced out of your job for not being vaccinated or denied new employment from an employer because your not is that not forcing someone to take a vaccine? Is being able to make a living and support your family "having access to additional privilege's"?
How about students being able to attend college to educate themselves and provide for career opportunities in life? Is denying them access to universities not forcing the vaccine upon people? Or being able to move freely domestically or eat in a restaurant? This is not forcing people?
This is literally what occurred in the Soviet Union and East Germany. You are literally talking about the government having the right to tell people where they can do, what they can and can not do, and who can be educated vs not having the right to education.
People are increasingly being forced to have the decision to become vaccinated made for them by the government. I strongly advise everyone regardless of where you stand on this issue to study what happed behind the iron Curtin because this is largely how much of it began.
Anyone who chooses to avoid a vaccine should not get medical coverage from their insurance company. They can pay for Covid tests, doctors office visits, hospital beds, ICUs, and ventilators.
The us Supreme Court, 115 years ago, validated states power to force people to get vaccinated in the interest of public health
Then no one who smokes, drinks alcohol, or eats fattening food and is overweight should get health care either.
These have all cost considerably more in health care costs than Covid and will continue to going forward.
Last edited:
Yes but the issue here is how loosely "public health" can be defined. This is the problem. You have a virus while has overwhelmingly impacted a set demographic(elderly). There is a vaccine to protect the elderly from the virus.
How do you define having every single citizen that overwhelmingly have little to no risk from this virus to take a vaccine when you've already offered to protection from the virus to the vulnerable group in the form of a vaccine? How does forcing vaccines upon those who are not vulnerable to virus protect the vulnerable who are now immune to the virus via their own vaccine treatment?
This is a very loose interpretation of public health. The concern here is how easily you are defining public health for future instances where the government wants to impose measures upon a population under the protection of "public health". The precedent here is just as important if not more important than just the issue of Covid vaccinations.
Everyone gets behind the idea of government imposing it's will on the population when they agree with it. You can not just revoke this authority once they begin to impose regulations and limits you do not agree with.
Last edited:
Addiction is a different story. Entirely.
Ignorance or a failure to take 30 seconds to get a shot are not the same as an addiction.
See that is the problem. Everyone always wants the rules that apply to them not to apply.
We are talking about accountability. Smoking, Drinking, and eating poorly are person choices. People choose to start smoking, they choose to start drinking, they choose to not modify their diets to be healthy. If you want to discuss ignorance then this is the group you need to discuss. Additionally eliminating these from your body would also lead to a much healthier life and a healthier body. No one can dispute this.
Why should someone be allowed to destroy their body and negatively impact their health becoming a large long term drain on the healthcare system yet someone who makes their own educated decision to not take a vaccine which does not threaten their age demographic should be denied health care?
This is also why it is so dangerous to allow the government to have the authority over our daily life.
You could easily make the argument that fried food is a public health hazard. It has contributed to the death of more people than Covid has. It has costs the healthcare system billions more dollars than Covid has. The same could be said for alcohol and tobacco.
You would actually save more lives and healthcare costs over time if you banned these items then you would by vaccinating people for Covid.
I’m not trying to litigate this specific hypothetical cases. I’m simply saying that before you go barking on about the USSR or other authoritatian regimes, realize the “standard of freedom” you’re attempting to uphold in the USA has found forced vaccinations constitutional (and forced in that case was actually FORCED, not in the required mandates for students as a term of their enrollment or employers as a condition of employment)
I see your point but it’s still an addiction.
Can you see mine, that an addiction is different from being too lazy to take 30 seconds to get a shot that has been given over 400,000,000 times to other people and has been in 40,000 peoples bodies since last July 2020?
People are not remaining unvaccinated because they are lazy.
There are many educated arguments you could make for someone choosing to not get vaccinated. The vaccine has not received full FDA approval, it was approved under a much lowered threshold. There is no long term data on the effects of the vaccine. They vaccine may be perfectly safe and I hope it is however there is certainly a risk that it may pose health issues down the road. We honestly do not know what will happen long term.
Everything in life is a risk assessment. We drive in cars because we know them to be safe. We fly because we know the odds of dying as a result of flying are low. For the vast majority of Americans the odds of dying from Covid are extremely low. In most cases the odds are in line with the risks of everyday activities we engage in. We also know that the unvaccinated do not pose a risk to the vaccinated as we are seeing very few vaccinated people dying as a result of Covid(along with a very few unvaccinated people dying from Covid as well).
Sitting back and objectively looking at taking a vaccine with unknown long term effects for protection from contracting something that poses a very low chance of death and knowing that you are not a danger to the health of those who chose to become vaccinated can easily be the right conclusion for many people. It has nothing to do with people being lazy.
As for the addition part. People become addicted to what they choose to subject themselves to. Addition may be hard to break but it is the result of person choices. This is called accountability. If you are going to try to argue that people who make the conscious decision to not vaccinate against Covid then you should definitely include revoking healthcare from those who's personal decisions are costing the healthcare system many times more billions of dollars.
I don't disagree. This has been brewing for years. People are losing jobs for their political beliefs as well. Sound familiar?
Well yes it does just ask those in Hollywood in the 50's and 60's who were blackballed because of the ''House Unamerican Activities Committee's'' witchunt.
Yes they have found vaccines mandates enforceable however this is a completely new take on enforcement. The idea of "forced vaccinations" is very much up for debate and will likely have to be addressed. The government can not tie you to a chair and vaccinate you per se however they do have quite a bit of leeway in what can be imposed via a vaccine mandate. Historically the application of these powers is what has defined our freedom and separated us from other more authoritarian regimes.
We are seeing a strong shift now which socially moves towards the regimes of the USSR and the DDR. We are seeing the freedom of domestic movement and the freedom of our right to make a living being decided on at a government level. The extremely small percentage of the population which is vulnerable to this virus as evidenced by the fatality figures is even more alarming. They are wishing to impose this will and impact every facet of our life over something which impacted such a small group and is largely no longer a threat to that population now that they have chosen to get vaccinated.
The point here is that allowing this infringement of our personal everyday lives by the government will only lead to further reaching actions in the future. We have already allowed for essentially unsupervised monitoring of the government into our lives. A very small portion of that ability was uncovered by Snowden. We are now at a point in society where the government does not need anyone to turn on us for information as they can directly access every facet of our lives on their own. If we allow then the authority to decide who can go where and does what then we may wake up one day in a modern day DDR.
You keep saying the “shift towards”
the Supreme Court said 115 years ago they could do much more than they are even doing now
that’s my point. You’re trying to turn this into some modern day ideological/political war, when they’ve had the power to do it for over a century
These people know what they are doing. Yes they are giving you a choice but the other choice you choose comes with a punishment that is problematic for your life. That athletic scholarship will help them get a degree and jobs in the future. It's not even giving them the opportunity to just mask up or test more frequently. Take the shot or your playing days are over. These tactics by our government scare me more and more about taking it ever. It's too obvious. If they are this invested in public health give us all free health care
Last edited:
I agree with most of what you’re saying. But the issue at hand is how many people have chosen to not be protected. If the exact same percent of people have been vaccinated but we weren’t seeing the surge in hospitalizations we currently are no one would be talking about this. It would be a non issue for the most part. There’s an aggressive push now for vaccinations because it’s clear this isn’t going away unless more people, including those who aren’t necessarily at risk for severe cases, get vaccinated. That’s why different organizations are starting to mandate it. Basically we led horses to the water but not enough are drinking so we’re going to make them.
I will remember to tell my niece and nephew this next time I see them. Covid took their healthy 40 year old mom back in the spring.
And my 2 year old nephew will be relieved to hear this. He just stopped receiving breathing treatments after contracting the virus a month ago.
So a
Don’t you have to try something to be addicted to it? Isn’t that a choice?
We've had the power to use the military and essentially do anything we've wanted over the years. Politically there has always been the power to put whomever you want in the supreme court and make nearly anything legal.
It is the act of using these powers upon your people to control and limit their everyday life that sets different governments or regimes apart.
I am sorry to hear that and I am sorry people are trying to use such absolute language in their arguments.
What that loss is real and tragic, the point is the statistics prove it is a very uncommon exception. Just as I knew 4 people who died in car accidents. Their loss is just as tragic as every other loss however it does not mean that driving in cars is unsafe.
The facts do still prove this demographic is statistically unlikely to be adversely effected by the virus. This is why we have to use statistics and data points and not personal experience to make risk assessments.
Thanks. Using statistics I’m sure will make all of us feel better. 99.9. All is well!
Seriously Mods where are you on this thread I got a vacation for something much less political than this. It's not that I don't enjoy political discourse/argument but y'all killed that when you gutted the Locker Room years ago. Now I just go to HROT.
And by not getting vaccinated they're giving a lot of other people no choice on being free to pursue what they want to. Not sure how you don't see that.
The issue here is hot the data is being presented.
As it has been explained to me they are publishing the hospitalized figures as though every one of those patients is in the hospital due to Covid and being treated for Covid. The reality is many(from what I have heard here most) are not in the hospital as a result of Covid. They are being tested upon admittance and if they happen to test positive are being recoded as a hospitalized patient with Covid. A patient with a broken arm who tests positive for Covid is an example.
The surge in Covid hospitalizations as it is being reported is misleading. The fatalities from Covid still prove as the most accurate representation of the current impact from Covid
except that was an actual vaccine that actually neutralized smallpox, stopped it dead in its tracks. a far cry from what we are seeing with COVID. smallpox was killing 30% of the people it infected. the vaccine until about the 70's was injecting cowpox into humans.
the irony here is that young adults were urged to get vaccinated so they don't get myocarditis from COVID. now we are seeing thousands of cases of myocarditis in that that age group post vaccination.
Sure. But addiction is still a bonafide medical issue. It is FAR different from someone not taking a safe vaccine. And for those who say not enough study has been done I say that’s BS.
mRNA vaccines have been a work in progress for a decade due to SARS. There are at least 40,000 people who have had one in their body for about 12 months. Hundreds of millions of mRNA vaccines have been given in the USA and Europe. They are safe. We have people who are making this a political issue (FREEDUMB!!!) or they just don’t think it’s necessary. They are the same people who complain about a lack of normalcy but they don’t do the things to make life normal.
I’ve come to the point where I don’t give a flying flip about any of them. If they all died we’d be better off. Seriously.
Or eats raw oysters, sushi, under medium well steak or over easy eggs lol. Only 100% fit people .
How are they doing that? If someone is vaccinated from effects of the virus how are they in any way prevented from going out and doing what they want to?
It should make you feel better. That is why we have statistics. If someone told you that more people your age died from auto accidents than Covid wouldn't that put your chance of survival into perspective and make you feel better?
Because they are reporting the number of people in the hospitals with Covid not the number of people in a hospital because of Covid. Every patient is tested before being admitted. If someone breaks their arm and goes to the emergency room then tests positive they count as a patient in the hospital with Covid.
This is why the death rate is the important figure. A large surge in infections is not resulting in a surge in deaths.
Not so much. Here is a stat. Florida reported 140 Covid deaths yesterday. Florida averages 6.58 deaths from auto accidents per day. Make you feel better?
Interesting. Why has the hospitalization number grown 5x in the last month? More people breaking arms?
That's nothing but fear tactics created by the media and elites to get us to argue with each other. Vaccinated or not you still can contract and pass on the covid 19. That a scientific fact. So why bring up people not wanting to be Vaccinated? You're Vaccinated right? And you too can still infect someone.
