Yearly article- Tallahassee man missing (Mike Williams)

[BoNoles]

I'm shocked.

I obviously am not in tally and live 5 states away. But from what I saw/read they didn't have anything on her but a murderer's testimony. The same one who tried from jail to frame her...

Very happy that the mom got the answers she wanted.

She definitely came off as an unlikable defendent and an all around unfeeling/cold person. The defense must be pretty shocked too as they didn't even present a case.

They had a lot more on her than that. Even though he was a bad guy, everything he said was verified by Denise's actions. A bad guy can still tell the truth sometimes. His story was a lot more believable than her story that she wasn't involved at all. Every move she made the last 20 years confirmed her guilt. The jury saw the same thing and convicted her.

 

[coloradonoles]

They had a lot more on her than that. Even though he was a bad guy, everything he said was verified by Denise's actions. A bad guy can still tell the truth sometimes. His story was a lot more believable than her story that she wasn't involved at all. Every move she made the last 20 years confirmed her guilt. The jury saw the same thing and convicted her.

That is exactly how those 12 people saw it and agreed.

But make no mistake... They didn't have anything on her, just a boatload of persuasive circumstantial evidence against an unlikeable defendant.

If they had had anything on her, they wouldn't have needed to let a cold-blooded murderer get off scot-free.

I am in no way saying the verdict was wrong. Just surprised is all.

 

[Buddy Green]

After hearing the jury ask "If we find her guilty of conspiracy, does that mean we automatically have to find her guilty of murder?", this is very surprising. I read that to mean one or more jurors had decided "no" on murder and there were holdouts on conspiracy if that mean they felt they had to convict on murder as well. Very odd.

I'm glad Mike and his family get partial justice because she was obviously guilty of some involvement, but it still doesn't feel completely right with the actual murderer and others who helped cover it up getting away scot-free.

There's still many unanswered questions that we will probably never have answers to. But unless Denise can prove Brian lied on the stand about material facts of the case, she's gone for good. They are going to appeal based upon the two motions they filed before closing arguments, but those are long shots not likely to prevail.

 

[coloradonoles]

After hearing the jury ask "If we find her guilty of conspiracy, does that mean we automatically have to find her guilty of murder?", this is very surprising. I read that to mean one or more jurors had decided "no" on murder and there were holdouts on conspiracy if that mean they felt they had to convict on murder as well. Very odd.

I'm glad Mike and his family get partial justice because she was obviously guilty of some involvement, but it still doesn't feel completely right with the actual murderer and others who helped cover it up getting away scot-free.

There's still many unanswered questions that we will probably never have answers to. But unless Denise can prove Brian lied on the stand about material facts of the case, she's gone for good. They are going to appeal based upon the two motions they filed before closing arguments, but those are long shots not likely to prevail.

It's also alarming that the jury asked to hear Brian's testimony again and the Judge said it would take 3 hours to read it back and they would have to come back Monday. They then decided they didn't want to wait and proceeded deliberating without hearing it again.

Sounds like one or more were holding out and either got bullied or restless and just wanted it over.

I do agree she needed to be found guilty of something.

 

[GwinnettNole]

After hearing the jury ask "If we find her guilty of conspiracy, does that mean we automatically have to find her guilty of murder?", this is very surprising. I read that to mean one or more jurors had decided "no" on murder and there were holdouts on conspiracy if that mean they felt they had to convict on murder as well. Very odd.

I'm glad Mike and his family get partial justice because she was obviously guilty of some involvement, but it still doesn't feel completely right with the actual murderer and others who helped cover it up getting away scot-free.

There's still many unanswered questions that we will probably never have answers to. But unless Denise can prove Brian lied on the stand about material facts of the case, she's gone for good. They are going to appeal based upon the two motions they filed before closing arguments, but those are long shots not likely to prevail.

In your opinion should Denise been found guilty of first degree murder?

 

[LauderdaleNole]

A lot of circumstantial stuff got her.
Doesn’t seem plausible that Denise’s husband dissappears, his body is never found and she assumes he’s been eaten by an alligator only to get consoled by her late-husbands best friend who she falls in love with and marries only to have him kidnapp her at gunpoint years later and find out that he actually killed her late-husband.
“Are you trying to tell me that my husband wasn’t eaten by an alligator?...that he was actually murdered by the guy I ended up marrying?”

 

[Random_John]

real question. what happens with her kid now?

 

[runkpanole]

real question. what happens with her kid now?

I believe her child is an adult now.

 

[InjunJoe]

Daughter gets to see her grandmother.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Daughter gets to see her grandmother.

Hopefully not just wishful thinking...

 

[NoleinATL]

Hopefully not just wishful thinking...

@GwinnettNole , has the child not visited with the grandmother even as she became a teenager?

If not, do you think the conviction will change her mind?

I would have thought she would have gotten to know her grandmother as she got older, but of course I have no frame of reference for how anyone would act being involved in this incredibly tragic and sad story

 

[noleclone2]

@GwinnettNole , has the child not visited with the grandmother even as she became a teenager?

If not, do you think the conviction will change her mind?

I would have thought she would have gotten to know her grandmother as she got older, but of course I have no frame of reference for how anyone would act being involved in this incredibly tragic and sad story

Good question. Poor thing had to go through finding out he dad was murdered by someone she knew well. I would think it would be hard to admit you remaining parent was a monster who had a hand in it without more compelling evidence. So that and the fact her grandma was pushing hard for this suggests that she likely will never really want anything to do with her. Could be wrong and she has come to terms with it. I always feel so bad for the children, even if adults when one spouse is killed by the other. Imagine losing one parent to murder and dealing with the other parent being evil and in jail rest of their life. Brutal

 

[Buddy Green]

In your opinion should Denise been found guilty of first degree murder?

As a matter of legal theory, I don't think a person who does not actually commit a murder should be charged with the crime. That's what a "conspiracy to commit murder" charge is for. I have no problem with it carrying a similar sentence, but only a person who actually kills another should be charged with murder.

 

[Buddy Green]

It's also alarming that the jury asked to hear Brian's testimony again and the Judge said it would take 3 hours to read it back and they would have to come back Monday. They then decided they didn't want to wait and proceeded deliberating without hearing it again.

Sounds like one or more were holding out and either got bullied or restless and just wanted it over.

I do agree she needed to be found guilty of something.

Yeh, that's what I concluded as well. You don't ask the question about conspiracy and murder if you are going to convict on murder anyway. It was obvious by those questions there were holdouts.

 

[GwinnettNole]

@GwinnettNole , has the child not visited with the grandmother even as she became a teenager?

If not, do you think the conviction will change her mind?

I would have thought she would have gotten to know her grandmother as she got older, but of course I have no frame of reference for how anyone would act being involved in this incredibly tragic and sad story

No Ansley has not visited with Ms. Williams. Ms Williams hasn’t seen her since Denise took her away because Ms Williams was trying to find out what happened to Mike. This was in 2006 (or around that time). She never accused Denise or Brian of killing Mike. She hoped that Mike just “skipped town” because of all the stress involved of a failing marriage, working 80 hours a week, and raising a child. Knowing Mike we knew the likelihood of this occurring was about the same of the earth being flat. But she held out hope as only a mom could.

I hate to say this but if I were betting I’d say Ansley is extremely messed up. There is no telling what she believes.... even with the conviction. The next big prayer we should be giving Ms Williams is that Ansley attempts to see her.

 

[dero316]

If they had had anything on her, they wouldn't have needed to let a cold-blooded murderer get off scot-free.

They didn't seem to be out to get Denise. They got Brian, he was the only one that knew where the body was. He told them the story thus implicating Denise.

So fitting that eve more stupidity on both their parts got them caught. Brian gets paranoid Denise is going to say something so he hides in her car with a gun(I'm assuming he didn't think she'd report it). She doubles down and reports the kidnapping basically daring Brian to come clean and implicate her since she believes she's kept her hands clean. Oops.

I think they'll throw the book at him for insurance fraud to extend his 20yr stay for kidnapping.

 

[DanC78]

Wow...while my gut says she is guilty, I thought for sure she would be found innocent based off of testimony and evidence presented from the prosecutor.

I wasn’t able to follow as close as I would have liked. So perhaps there was something I missed????

Did the defense ever present their case?

 

[Buddy Green]

They didn't seem to be out to get Denise.

They were after her the entire time. They had a decade to file charges against the two and have them stand trial together.

I think they'll throw the book at him for insurance fraud to extend his 20yr stay for kidnapping.

He's not being charged with insurance fraud. Only her. Not him. Not his father.

 

[GwinnettNole]

As a matter of legal theory, I don't think a person who does not actually commit a murder should be charged with the crime. That's what a "conspiracy to commit murder" charge is for. I have no problem with it carrying a similar sentence, but only a person who actually kills another should be charged with murder.

Got it. I tend to agree that I still don't understand getting her on "first degree" murder charge. But the "conspiracy to commit murder" fully makes sense. And for that which equates to a lifetime sentence we should all sleep well that the jury did the right thing.

 

[amicusnole]

They didn't seem to be out to get Denise. They got Brian, he was the only one that knew where the body was. He told them the story thus implicating Denise.

So fitting that eve more stupidity on both their parts got them caught. Brian gets paranoid Denise is going to say something so he hides in her car with a gun(I'm assuming he didn't think she'd report it). She doubles down and reports the kidnapping basically daring Brian to come clean and implicate her since she believes she's kept her hands clean. Oops.

I think they'll throw the book at him for insurance fraud to extend his 20yr stay for kidnapping.

The kidnapping was a

Got it. I tend to agree that I still don't understand getting her on "first degree" murder charge. But the "conspiracy to commit murder" fully makes sense. And for that which equates to a lifetime sentence we should all sleep well that the jury did the right thing.

The way conspiracy law works, once a conspiracy is formed, each co-conspirator is criminally liable for all crimes of the other co-conspirators committed in furtherance of the conspiracy. That's why she's guilty of murder. Had Winchester robbed a gun store to steal the shotgun he used to commit the murder, she'd be guilty of robbery, too. The conspiracy charge is not duplicative of the murder charge because she would be liable for conspiracy to commit murder even if the murder was not completed (as long as some overt act was taken to accomplish the murder).

 

[GwinnettNole]

The way conspiracy law works, once a conspiracy is formed, each co-conspirator is criminally liable for all crimes of the other co-conspirators committed in furtherance of the conspiracy. That's why she's guilty of murder. Had Winchester robbed a gun store to steal the shotgun he used to commit the murder, she'd be guilty of robbery, too. The conspiracy charge is not duplicative of the murder charge because she would be liable for conspiracy to commit murder even if the murder was not completed (as long as some overt act was taken to accomplish the murder).

Perfect explanation, thank you

 

[dero316]

They were after her the entire time. They had a decade to file charges against the two and have them stand trial together.

He's not being charged with insurance fraud. Only her. Not him. Not his father.

What I meant was they knew they had to get him first and the rest(body, conspirators) would follow. The investigators were in Brian's head thinking that she was going to turn on him after the divorce which spooked him into the kidnapping.

Sucks about the fraud, didn't know he got out of that one.

 

[LT4PLY]

Yeh, that's what I concluded as well. You don't ask the question about conspiracy and murder if you are going to convict on murder anyway. It was obvious by those questions there were holdouts.

It's not obvious. The jury could have already unanimously found her guilty of murder and wanted to know if they had to bother voting on the other charges or they could just move on because they had the big one over and done with.

 

[cfbfan23]

Did that tape actually exist? If so, did they show it?

 

[Scalphunter]

A month or so ago I was out teaching at Pat Thomas and I overheard some folks that are close to this say that after Denise got arrested that Ansley had not visited her Mom at the jail. I have no idea if she has since. Just FYI. Poor kid.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Sentencing for Denise on Feb 6 at 9am.

 

[trefeet]

Life sentence fo sho

 

[Random_John]

I wonder why it takes so long to figure out how long to put someone in prison. I would think it should be cookie cutter, you were found guilty of X so you will be put away for y years.

Touchdowns don't get more than 6 points simply because you threw a hail mary.

 

[trefeet]

It’s too bad they can’t fire up old sparky for her.

 

[dero316]

I wonder why it takes so long to figure out how long to put someone in prison. I would think it should be cookie cutter, you were found guilty of X so you will be put away for y years.

Touchdowns don't get more than 6 points simply because you threw a hail mary.

Not like she's going anywhere. 75 days from the verdict is the requirement I believe.

 

[AllNoles]

I’m convinced she would have walked without the recording. Everything else can be explained. Not as common or even likely, but enough to create reasonable doubt. But when she was told Brian was talking about Mikes death, she didn’t ask why or question what he would have had to do with it. She didn’t cry. She simply said “tell Brian I haven’t said anything.” That did it.

 

[AllNoles]

A month or so ago I was out teaching at Pat Thomas and I overheard some folks that are close to this say that after Denise got arrested that Ansley had not visited her Mom at the jail. I have no idea if she has since. Just FYI. Poor kid.

She hasn’t. But she also still hasn’t talked to Cheryl. That poor mother/grandmother still doesn’t have her family together at all.

What’s sad is seeing she still doesn’t have a headstone for Mike. Woman persevered for almost 20 years forcing her way onto anyone who would listen and finally got some closure, but her son has no headstone after being moved from a lakebed.

 

[Squirrel J.]

She hasn’t. But she also still hasn’t talked to Cheryl. That poor mother/grandmother still doesn’t have her family together at all.

What’s sad is seeing she still doesn’t have a headstone for Mike. Woman persevered for almost 20 years forcing her way onto anyone who would listen and finally got some closure, but her son has no headstone after being moved from a lakebed.

Is it a money issue or she just can't bring herself to do it? Or was he cremated?

 

[Scalphunter]

She hasn’t. But she also still hasn’t talked to Cheryl. That poor mother/grandmother still doesn’t have her family together at all.

What’s sad is seeing she still doesn’t have a headstone for Mike. Woman persevered for almost 20 years forcing her way onto anyone who would listen and finally got some closure, but her son has no headstone after being moved from a lakebed.

If money is an issue, I'm more than willing to pitch in to get a nice headstone for Mike. There are lots of folks that would be more than willing to help out. Please let me know.

 

[LT4PLY]

I wonder why it takes so long to figure out how long to put someone in prison. I would think it should be cookie cutter, you were found guilty of X so you will be put away for y years.

Touchdowns don't get more than 6 points simply because you threw a hail mary.

Because our legal system is screwed up. Commit a moderate crime in Miami and you are likely to get probation, same crime in Pensacola gets you 5 years in jail. Difference is South Florida prisons are full and they aren't up north so the sentences are different. Yes, it is that screwed up.

 

[AllNoles]

If money is an issue, I'm more than willing to pitch in to get a nice headstone for Mike. There are lots of folks that would be more than willing to help out. Please let me know.

That is really nice. I already gave. I was not asking here because I know the people involved and trust it all, but there have already been fake gofundme pages out there. Cheryl doesn’t want that kind of stuff so some of us are just giving cash to a person I know will make sure she gets it all. If you want to help like that, that’s awesome. But I was not asking.

 

[AllNoles]

@Scalphunter or anyone else who wants to help - you can send anything to her directly at
Cheryl Williams
PO Box 13486
Tallahassee, FL 32317

She is very quiet and as you can understand is still processing this. Her good friends are helping but I don’t want folks to send to third parties they don’t know. I’m sure she’d appreciate anything at all.

Thanks so much for wanting to help.

 

[Squirrel J.]

@Scalphunter or anyone else who wants to help - you can send anything to her directly at
Cheryl Williams
PO Box 13486
Tallahassee, FL 32317

She is very quiet and as you can understand is still processing this. Her good friends are helping but I don’t want folks to send to third parties they don’t know. I’m sure she’d appreciate anything at all.

Thanks so much for wanting to help.

That's great! Thank you for posting

 

[Buddy Green]

How do you pm somebody on here these days? I can't find the option and wanted to ask AllNoles something about the headstone.

 

[NoleinATL]

How do you pm somebody on here these days? I can't find the option and wanted to ask AllNoles something about the headstone.

Click on allnoles name and it will bring up his postings and what not. Click on information then start a conversation