NBA Playoffs Thread

[dmm5157]

Dmm,
Sadly I agree on LeBron he just doesn't like to be super aggressive it's not him, he'd rather be the second or third best player on a dynasty, problem is he's the best player every night and he's not on the old celtics or laker teams. Truly maddening at times but still love watching him. He's gonna need to be aggressive from now on and be more Michael and less magic.

I think Lebron suffers from "thinkers" syndrome. He worries far too much about what people think or say about him. Eff it, just ball man.

He tries to be everything to everyone: the unselfish team mate, the supportive role player, the NBA megastar, the field general, the quiet leader. You can't be all of those things, just not possible. He went to the wrong team if that's what he was looking for. Should have stayed in Miami if he was ok with being 2nd fiddle and more of a supporting role guy. There are too many inexperienced guys on that Cavs team for Lebron not to step up and be the leader.

 

[BelemNole]

I think Lebron just gets tired. The number of minutes he's played is insane.

 

[kooterridesagain]

True on both accounts I actually think he should play 5-6 min in, then 1-2,off all game with no long stretches.

Who would he have bee second fiddle to on Miami? Wade is coasting to retirement and bosh is second tier. With love this Cavs team I think would have won the title with Spurs losing. Now that's doubtful

 

[Bobcat07]

Now, clips/rockets have 2 days off and there are no NBA games today, this schedule is ridiculous.
every series 1-1, when does that ever happen

Rockets/Clippers actually only have today off. They play in LA tomorrow night. Thankful that the only guaranteed 9:30...more like 9:45 PM tip-off as of now is on a Friday night. I'm struggling today when that game ended at 11:30 and then waking up this morning at 5 AM. As far as game 3 goes, I think the Clippers win. I'm glad the Rockets won last night, but the way they sleepwalk through every 2nd quarter in every playoff game so far is the recipe for disaster in this series.

 

[dmm5157]

@BelemNole you're probably right, but with Lebron I just don't get the "tired" thing. Guy is an all-world athlete and "only" 30 years old. He played 2,493 min this season, compared to 2,730 for Kyrie (yes, I know Kyrie is only 23). I know he's put in crazy minutes over his career, but there have got to be better ways to manage him.

Between the tired and cramping that Lebron had last year, I just don't get it. He's not even the most intense position on the court and he doesn't post up so it's not like he's getting incredibly physical either.

I could see the gripe if he were banging bodies all night, but that isn't his game. He drives to the bucket once in a while, but that isn't his typical game this season. Some of his minute management is certainly on the coach. And the Cavs were playing a bit of catch-up earlier in the season (which is just hard to fathom considering how bad the East is). I just find it hard to believe that others don't seem to take whole games off psychologically like Lebron seems to do. That may be just perception due to how many games I've seen him play versus others, but i don't think that's an unfair statement to make about the league's best player. And that coming from Lebron, who has played his entire career in the Eastern Conference. Had he gone out west, where teams run and gun for 48 minutes, I can't imagine how gassed he'd be.

As an aside, they're all tired. Everyone has been through the same season and worked their tails off to get here. Lebron isn't the only one out there playing and he isn't playing astronomical numbers, either.

As for the "2nd fiddle", I don't mean that anyone who was in Miami was better than Lebron, or that the team down there was any better. The superstar personalities of Wade and Bosch allowed the team to share the blame and Lebron to get a little shelter. With Lebron's current squad of young'ens and KLove being as soft as tissue paper, Lebron is more exposed than he was in Miami (same situation as his first stint with Cleveland). The good thing for Lebron is Kyrie is an outstanding young player and seems to be coming into his own on being able to take over the game more and more as time goes on.


As for the Cavs and the title, I seriously don't see any threats out east to keep them out of the finals. The Eastern Conference continues to be a joke, overall.

Out west, still looks like Golden State is the team to beat. That team is incredibly one-dimensional IMO, relying squarely on sharp shooting. I am looking forward to the finals, but I would still put money on the Cavs to take the title. The other teams (Houston, Grizz, Warriors, Clippers) are all pretty lacking in playoff experience. None of those teams have been to an NBA finals in 20 years. While the Cavs team is very inexperienced, having Lebron (who has been to the last 4 finals) will be a huge difference maker. I wouldn't bet against him in the finals.

 

[BelemNole]

The guy has 42000 minutes played and he's only 30. His teams have always lived or died on him being on. Teams have been playing him more and more physically defensively. And he plays both ways, not like some guys who only look to score or are defensive specialists.
So if he looks tired from time to time I figure it's because he's tired from busting his ass all season carrying his team like he does.

 

[dmm5157]

The guy has 42000 minutes played and he's only 30. His teams have always lived or died on him being on. Teams have been playing him more and more physically defensively. And he plays both ways, not like some guys who only look to score or are defensive specialists.
So if he looks tired from time to time I figure it's because he's tired from busting his ass all season carrying his team like he does.

Lebron has been in a very fortunate situation of being able to pick his team not once, but twice. Recruited his team mates to join him and forced management to make trades (Wiggins for KLove), so I don't feel bad for Lebron having to carry his team. That's just sleeping in the bed you make. Plenty of other guys have stuck it out with their crappy teams, so I don't sympathize with that at all.

As for the minutes, that's a legitimate claim, but again a result of his choosing.

42,000 minutes in 12 years ... of playing in the Eastern conference. While minutes are minutes, there are certainly differences in the type of minutes. He also has had a history of playing into the 4th quarter of games and delivering for the fans (not a knock, just an observation).

As a flipside Duncan (easy comparison for me) has played 54,900 minutes over 17 seasons and still averaged almost 36 mpg this post season while putting up numbers that are statistically in line with his previous seasons.

Couple that with the differences in the style of play. One could argue that Lebron plays a more physically demanding position, you could also argue that playing in the post against 7 footers is a little more taxing night in and night out.

I'll give you that Duncan has a reduced role ... but the guy is 39 fricking years old and still putting up 20 and 10 in the playoffs matching up against DeAndre Jordan (top defensive center in the league). You won't see a guy playing harder in the 4th quarter every game of the playoffs than him.

As an apples-to-apples comparison between Lebron and Duncan:

Over their careers, they're at the following:

Lebron: 3,564 minutes per season average over 12 seasons
Duncan: 3,176 minutes per season average over 17 seasons

That comes out to about 10% more minutes per season. We're not talking a huge difference in playing time, total of about 4 min per game.


I would not argue against Lebron James being the best player of the past 15 years (maybe more). Physical specimen, jumps out of the gym, great shooter and defender. At the same time, I find that he has as many apologists and he does detractors. Either you want the ball at the end of the game or you don't. Either you want to play every playoff game balls to the wall or you don't.

It's May and it's a long season. Everyone playing out there right now is tired.

 

[BelemNole]

It's an interesting comparison but Duncan doesn't have to be on every night. He's surrounded by scorers on that team and has been for years. Hell, SA's problem this year was the scorers breaking down with age/mileage.

 

[dmm5157]

It's an interesting comparison but Duncan doesn't have to be on every night. He's surrounded by scorers on that team and has been for years. Hell, SA's problem this year was the scorers breaking down with age/mileage.

Sure, Duncan doesn't have to be on every night now at age 39, but at age 30, he was a 22 pt, 12 rebound 3 block per game guy in the playoffs (and just about that in the regular season, too). I'd say he showed up every night. and he started over 80 games in 6 seasons by Age 30, coming into the league at age 22 after 4 years of college.

By comparison, Lebron has only started over 80 games in a season twice before Age 30.



Next up, you're saying Lebron hasn't been surrounded by scorers? Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, and JR Smith are pretty capable scorers. Wade and Bosh weren't too bad either.

Chemistry is probably a bigger issue for the Cavs, but let's not pretend that it was personnel was the only reason why the Spurs had success over all those years. A big part of their team were chumps that didn't survive in the league once they left the team. You could say the same about last year's championship team as well.


Comparing Duncan in 2015 @ Age 39 vs Lebron's situation the past few years isn't really apples to apples either. I only brought him up to combat the argument about Lebron's minutes played. It's better to look at years played rather than age for some of those guys, since Lebron came in so young.

 

[kooterridesagain]

The real issue is, the only players who have been hacked and abused as much as LeBron the last decade or two are Shaquille and maybe Dwight. Being that strong and attacking the rim so much for his career has beaten him up badly, refs don't protect him at all because he's not built like harden or durant. It adds up.

As for picking teams, he was drafted by Cleveland! Mike brown wasted those early years sadly, if he'd had s great coach like Pop or jackson it would have been very different career path.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

There sure wasn't much exciting action in last night's games.

 

[kooterridesagain]

U said it. Why are the games late tonight? Should be 7/9:30, not 8/10:30. Then Sunday they're 3:30/8:30?
Shumpert game time and Paul gonna try to play. I'd actually rest Paul another game if he does it again that's it.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Yeah, staying up until after 1 AM to catch the late game is tough to do. But for me the way the schedule works out it actually gives me a chance to see some playoff games.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Story of cavs wasn't rose, but again Irving so bad shouldn't have played. He's really hurt and cavs can't win without him.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Crazy shot by Rose regardless. Didn't see clippers but impressive score

 

[dmm5157]

Watched most of the Cavs game, While Kyrie was off, Smith kept them in the game late with clutch 3's. Lebron was no where to be found, not unlike him historically.

All that said, Bulls won on a lucky shot. They will need a lot more luck to knock the Cavs out.


As for the Clippers, hard to deny that the team has grown with the emergence of Reddick and Rivers. Both played superb games and the team seems to be gelling.

Much like the Spurs series, the Clippers have both shown that home court doesn't matter. Time for Houston to show up, or this series will end in 6 or less.

Great playoffs so far, happy to see the favorites are not just running away with it. Every series has stayed competitive.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

Watched most of the Clippers until they started pulling away.

I wondered aloud to Mrs BFT how did the Magic let JJ get away.

 

[BelemNole]

LeBron led the cavs in scoring and only trailed Rose... who had 3 more. I would say he was nowhere to be found.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Yeah nowhere to be found is crazy talk he played his butt off. Simply it was 1 v 5 with Bulls not guarding a hurt Kyrie. Lebron has to do it all and guard 5 positions. Lebron missed s lot easy looks and was trying so hard to make something happen he had 7 TOs too. If cavs injuries are gonna end season I'd rather he go out gunning like this, and with 14 assists.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

John Wall is injured and Atlanta is still getting its butt kicked. I didn't have the Hawks coming out of the East anyway. But this has to be embarrassing.

 

[dmm5157]

LeBron led the cavs in scoring and only trailed Rose... who had 3 more. I would say he was nowhere to be found.

I was speaking to the "late in the game" comment regarding Smith keeping them in it and then transitioned to Lebron, hence the "historically". My post was late in the evening, didn't state that part very clearly, looking back at it.

Lebron was very strong earlier in the game, other than losing the ball quite a bit, but that was more due to Butler's defense and the refs calling a pretty loose game fouls wise. Down the stretch he missed some pretty makeable shots and looked to dish to team mates rather than taking the shots.

 

[dmm5157]

Yeah nowhere to be found is crazy talk he played his butt off. Simply it was 1 v 5 with Bulls not guarding a hurt Kyrie. Lebron has to do it all and guard 5 positions. Lebron missed s lot easy looks and was trying so hard to make something happen he had 7 TOs too. If cavs injuries are gonna end season I'd rather he go out gunning like this, and with 14 assists.

1 v 5? I know you say that in jest, but you can't forget about JR Smith's clutch shooting to keep them in the game. Maybe 3 v 5, but Lebron was certainly not alone out there offensively.

Lebron did take almost 1/3 of his team's shots (25 out of 82) and really struggled from beyond the arc (1 of 7 from 3). Lebron, Kyrie and Shumpert were the only Cavs players to shoot under 40% from the field. Everyone else actually shot well and the team was nearly perfect from the line.

Game could have gone either way. No way the Cavs lose that game with a Kyrie at full strength, but battling through injuries has been a recurring theme for these Playoffs. See Chandler Parsons, KLove, Mike Conley, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, John Wall, and add Kyrie now to the list.

 

[seminoleed]

John Wall is injured and Atlanta is still getting its butt kicked. I didn't have the Hawks coming out of the East anyway. But this has to be embarrassing.

Not embarrassing at all. Pierce had to make a Hail Mary at the buzzer to pull it out.
I think the Hawks will win in 6, but go no further after that.

 

[dmm5157]

Anyone watching this Warriors v Griz game? Grizzlies shooting lights out and GState look a bit lost.

This series has been surprising to me, thus far. Fans in Memphis are making Home Court count.

 

[dmm5157]

Heck of a game by Grizzlies, got a little slippery for a bit in the 3rd for a bit, then again for a cold stretch by the Griz in the 4th.

Odd that there was another big bank shot this weekend, although the 3 by Gasol was later changed to a 2.

Warriors looking surprisingly mortal. Amazing to see them missing wide open looks. Guessing it's a result of Memphis pushing them hard all game.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Stunning no call on Noah with a second left. And James hits a huge one. Wow

 

[dmm5157]

Now THAT was Clutch Lebron.

Should have never been tied at the end, so it's only fair to end that way.

 

[dmm5157]

Stunning no call on Noah with a second left. And James hits a huge one. Wow

Ironically a foul call against Noah would have prob been better for Bulls, in the end. Would have been down 2 at most and gotten the ball back with about 3 sec left and at least a chance to win the game. With no time outs, it would have been a long shot, though.

I missed the earlier part of this game, watched up to the 2nd quarter, then ran errands and got back home with 4 min left in the game. Glad I caught the final moments.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

That second half of the Clippers game I think is what we were expected to see from the Rockets.

 

[dmm5157]

That second half of the Clippers game I think is what we were expected to see from the Rockets.

They have delivered.

A few days ago on Twitter, CBlunt asked which team was in "the most trouble" to get out from being down 2-1 and Houston won that poll. I voted Houston as well, very mentally fragile team, although Clippers historically have been that way as well.


Huge game tonight for Memphis. Based on the playoffs thus far, smart money would be on Golden State evening up the series tonight, but it'd be great if Memphis were able to buck the trend.

 

[SeaPA]

Now THAT was Clutch Lebron.

Should have never been tied at the end, so it's only fair to end that way.

The article I read today indicated that the play being drawn up by the Cavs coach had James as the player making the inbounds pass. WTF? I've seen that done some with more time on the clock, with the guy making the inbounds pass then cutting off a pick to get the ball back for a shot - but there wasn't enough time left for that. Whoever caught the pass was going to have to jack up the shot. How can that not be Lebron?

 

[dmm5157]

The article I read today indicated that the play being drawn up by the Cavs coach had James as the player making the inbounds pass. WTF? I've seen that done some with more time on the clock, with the guy making the inbounds pass then cutting off a pick to get the ball back for a shot - but there wasn't enough time left for that. Whoever caught the pass was going to have to jack up the shot. How can that not be Lebron?

What a crappy situation in Cleveland, overall. So Blatt almost cost them the game by trying to call a time out when they had none left (pulling a Chris Webber). Then, he supposedly calls a play that Lebron tosses aside and runs his own play.

Very odd for Lebron to toss his coach under the bus by saying he didn't run the play the coach called. With as much pull as Lebron has, surprised he hasn't insisted on a real coach at all in his career. His 3 coaches have been Mike Brown (over-rated), Erik Spoelstra (sub par coach) and now David Blatt (strange dude, commands zero respect).

There are plenty of quality, respectable, battle-tested coaches with NBA experience that were out of the league when Blatt was chosen. Then again, guess Lebron didn't choose Cleveland until much later after Blatt was made head coach. Still boggles the mind.

 

[Bobcat07]

That second half of the Clippers game I think is what we were expected to see from the Rockets.

No surprise. Both match-ups (Spurs or Clippers) were bad news for Houston. They've been too lackadaisical the whole postseason and go on too many stretches where the ball movement breaks down and the defense is atrocious. Even during the Mavs series I said that Dallas exposed a lot of holes on both sides of the Rockets game that deeper and more athletic teams would destroy them with.

I told some friends last Sunday that I figured the Clippers would win the series in five or six games and got roasted for it. I just couldn't see them matching up with both Jordan and Griffin inside and the way they've just let Crawford, Redick and Rivers control the games is embarrassing.

 

[BelemNole]

All the MVP chants for Harden are looking ridiculous now. Guy has completely disappeared this series. Clippers have game-planned him away.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Ive seen this movie before with harden and Howard on other teams.

For cavs, I actually think it can unite them they were all joking about the end of game fiasco today and probably just relieved they won. I don't think it's meant to undermine Blatt.

Cavs need to start fast and get Kyrie done open 3's all night since he can't move. Taking him off Rose was smart mid game.

Grizz look good but I'm not buying them unless they win a third game first. Warriors win tonight they're back in command

 

[kooterridesagain]

Also on rockets, i expected them to lose if Paul came back but the outright lack of effort on defense by their two stars would really upset me if I were a fan. They just don't seem to care about defense it's contagious

 

[kooterridesagain]

Cavs inexperience should have cost them the game tonight. Some miserable mistakes throughout the 4th, they needed all of Lebron's 38 pts/0 turnovers. Hopefully the Cavs learn from that and play a more complete game in game 6. Bulls must be gutted after losing game 4 at the end, and then fighting back to lose game 5 so late too. Bulls were on fire in the 4th, partly from Cavs mistakes, but mostly just couldn't miss.

Dunleavy was unreal in the 2nd half they couldn't figure out how to stop him. At one point I thin the Bulls hit 22 straight free throws which must have approached a record.

D Rose has come out on fire two straight games and looked winded two straight second halves.

Kyrie showed some heart tonight and better effort at both ends. Love THompson/Shumpert effort. Mozgov was terrible and 0/7 but i'm sure he'll rebound, he was just frustrated tonight not getting calls and not finishing easy buckets.

Gibson will be suspended game 6 if NBA, has to be. Sure he was baited and Dellavadova could have been Teched up, but Gibson actually committed two flagrant on the play, the kick away and then tried to hit JR in the face, combined might be 2 games, at least 1 is easy call.

Well done by JR Smith and the Cavs to not retaliate for once. I guess in that sense they grew tonight.

 

[Bill From Tampa]

What early on looked like a good series between LA and Houston has turned boring what with these back and forth blowouts.

I guess that is a good thing in that I don't have to stay up to the very end to catch the final outcome.

 

[dmm5157]

Cavs inexperience should have cost them the game tonight. Some miserable mistakes throughout the 4th, they needed all of Lebron's 38 pts/0 turnovers. Hopefully the Cavs learn from that and play a more complete game in game 6. Bulls must be gutted after losing game 4 at the end, and then fighting back to lose game 5 so late too. Bulls were on fire in the 4th, partly from Cavs mistakes, but mostly just couldn't miss.

Dunleavy was unreal in the 2nd half they couldn't figure out how to stop him. At one point I thin the Bulls hit 22 straight free throws which must have approached a record.

D Rose has come out on fire two straight games and looked winded two straight second halves.

Kyrie showed some heart tonight and better effort at both ends. Love THompson/Shumpert effort. Mozgov was terrible and 0/7 but i'm sure he'll rebound, he was just frustrated tonight not getting calls and not finishing easy buckets.

Gibson will be suspended game 6 if NBA, has to be. Sure he was baited and Dellavadova could have been Teched up, but Gibson actually committed two flagrant on the play, the kick away and then tried to hit JR in the face, combined might be 2 games, at least 1 is easy call.

Well done by JR Smith and the Cavs to not retaliate for once. I guess in that sense they grew tonight.

I can't believe the Bulls made it a game at the end, I changed the channel to watch something else after the Cavs went up big in the 4th. Cavs really should be able to roll through this series and next series to the finals. There are some times, when watching the Bulls, that they look like a decent teams. Then many more times where they just look like they're offensively inept.

As for that Dellavadova leg lock think, I think that was pretty silly. I didn't see Gibson "try to hit JR in the face", looked more like Gibson shoving Smith off of him. Guess that's up for the NBA office to decide.

Here are videos from two angles from that interaction with Gibson and Dellavedova .

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/bulls-forward-taj-gibson-ejected-for-kicking-matthew-dellavedova





If Gibson ends up getting suspended for the next game (very likely possibility), then Bulls are done. Gibson has been a big contributor for them on the boards and defensive end. Not sure they have enough depth to replace him. Especially if Gasol is still out as well.


I didn't catch any of the Rockets/Clips game. We'll see which team shows up in Game 6.

 

[kooterridesagain]

Yeah clippers rockets games haven't been very exciting.

On that replay looks like Gibson actually shoved jr smith by his neck/face, which looks worse IMHO than the kick.

I expect Hawks and warriors to look good tonight