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Game of Thrones - Episdoe 5: Eastwatch

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LesClaypool

LesClaypool

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What is Littlefinger up to?

Does Sam not realize what he heard Gilly say?!?!

Gendry's back? (Why though...he wouldnt appear to have any logical part to play anymore)

Cersei is with child again?

A small, but formidable ranging party heading north of the wall.

So many great scenes. My favorite one last night though had to be when Tormund asked Jon, "Did you bring the 'big woman'?" I lol'd

This season continues to deliver.
 
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Didn't realize that Jamie and Bronn had gills. I know they couldn't just pop right out of the water or they would have been fried, but to swim that far with THAT armor on. Writers ignoring some basic common sense there.

Yeah, Sam totally missed what Gilly said, was that "proof" about Jon Snow being Targaryan?

Jon meeting the dragon was pretty crazy.

Curious how they are going to pull off taking just 1 walker? Good squad to do it though.

Littlefinger is up to no good.
 
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A great mixture of awesome things and dumb stuff.

Jon mofuggin Targaryan. That scene with Drogon was incredible. And finally getting the knowledge that he is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna is everything. And although he doesn't want it, he is the true heir to the Iron Throne.

But this plan to drag a wight down to KL is really stupid. I guess the point is to bring these awesome set of people together. But seriously dude, you get word that Arya and Bran are alive and he doesn't stop by Winterfell first? Maybe get your damn Direwolf. Update your bannermen.

Littlefinger is doing Litterfinger things. Arya is not doing a great job at being discrete. And in case y'all weren't sure...the scroll was the one that Cersei made Sansa write to Robb to swear loyalty to Joffery.

Anyone not buying Cersei's pregnancy?

Sam is now Lord Tarly. Wonder when he'll get that news!
 
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What did Gilly say, I didn't pick up on it. I also thought Jamie and Bronn somehow swimming hundreds of yards underwater undetected was really really lazy.
 
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QuaZ2002 said:
What did Gilly say, I didn't pick up on it. I also thought Jamie and Bronn somehow swimming hundreds of yards underwater undetected was really really lazy.
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She was misprouncing names a bit, but she said that Rhaegar Targaryen had his marriage annulled so he could marry another woman. Had Sam listened to what she was saying instead of focusing on the maesters' bedpans, he'd have been able to ask a question or two which would've led him to a "Eureka!" moment about Jon.
 
Found this online regarding Sam and his not paying attention:

Sam: "We need to hurry up and get back to Winterfell so I can pour through these texts and see if there is any way to stop the White Walkers. I really wish the Maesters had listened to me."

Gilly: "Hmm. It says here that you Sir Authur Martin of the house Ravenswatch once defeated the entire Army of the dead by killing its Night King with dragonglass with a direct shot to the heart in a one-on-one fight."

Sam: "I just don't understand why they wouldn't listen to me. I have a lot of knowledge and it can really save all of us."

Gilly: "Interesting. I just read that the army of the dead has a hive mind and all it takes it three drops of king's blood burned in a fire to get them to freeze in place, making it impossibly easy to kill the Night's Kind and render the entire army obsolete."

Sam: "Obsolete. That's what I felt like Gilly. They wouldn't even take me serious. It's like no one respects me, you know. No one ever pays attention to me."
 
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Arya is setting Littlefinger up I would imagine. They made her look too naive which she is not. I expect her to wear a mask next week and end him, or in finale.

I believe Sam was stripped of his entitlement, or annulled, as they cleverly had him define.

The Jamie alive bit is just stupid, i have no other comments on swimming 600 yards in armor, with 1 arm.

The crusade north for a hostage is also dumb unless they all have new weapons to swing away with made from dragonglass. I expect most will not return to the wall.
Maybe Dany saves them just in time with dragons?

Very cool scene with John and the dragon, literally silly now they don't all know the obvious. Painful.

The Cersei pregnancy or not, don't care.
 
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Jaime and Bronn swimming off was awful. Why wouldn't Dany have people immediately go after them?

I forgot to mention Gendry. I really don't care all that much about his return. But him using a warhammer as a weapon is a nice touch and tribute to his father.
 
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Sam and Bran are two different people though. While a great OMG moment in the show and wanting Sam to let Gilly talk, he still could not have put R+L=J together as Bran is the only person to have that info currently.
 
Regarding the Arya and Baelish scene but will put it in spoiler tag. Don't read if you don't want to know about it.

The letter that Littlefinger sent for and then "hid" was to set Arya up against Sansa.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...ansa-letter-arya-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch

He knew the letter would be there because he was there when Cersei forced Sansa to write the letter to Robb Stark.

Chaos is a ladder.

Edit: Went back to reread the thread and saw it was already mentioned so never mind.
 
The team that did the rendering of Drogon for that episode were the MVPs. I mean, this is a TV miniseries and the quality weekly is outstanding.
 
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[QUOTE="FSUSarah, post: 3025664, member:]

Sam is now Lord Tarly. Wonder when he'll get that news![/QUOTE]

He renounced those rights when he swore his vow to the watch. Not sure who would be the heir since his kid isnt legitimate either.
 
kooterridesagain said:
Arya is setting Littlefinger up I would imagine. They made her look too naive which she is not. I expect her to wear a mask next week and end him, or in finale.

I believe Sam was stripped of his entitlement, or annulled, as they cleverly had him define.

The Jamie alive bit is just stupid, i have no other comments on swimming 600 yards in armor, with 1 arm.

The crusade north for a hostage is also dumb unless they all have new weapons to swing away with made from dragonglass. I expect most will not return to the wall.
Maybe Dany saves them just in time with dragons?

Very cool scene with John and the dragon, literally silly now they don't all know the obvious. Painful.

The Cersei pregnancy or not, don't care.
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I was thinking the same thing with Arya/Littlefinger. It was obvious that Littlefinger was setting her up and she couldnt be stupid enough to fall for it. We'll see how it plays out.

I don't really care about the Jaime part. They had to get him away for the story to continue. He would of either been killed or captured which doesn't move the story. Plus, we didn't see what happened before they came out of the water. They could've quickly came up for breath before or there could of been a current. Who know...who cares.

I originally thought that the season would end with part of the wall coming down, but now I think that it will happen in the beginning of the next season. I'm thinking now that they will get in trouble and Dany will come to the rescue with a dragon to save Jon. They keep setting it up with the looks she is giving him last episode. I'm guessing that the closing scene of the season will be a dead dragon being resurrected by the Night King. Hopefully, it will be one of the little ones so they don't lose Drogon.
 
LesClaypool said:
She was misprouncing names a bit, but she said that Rhaegar Targaryen had his marriage annulled so he could marry another woman. Had Sam listened to what she was saying instead of focusing on the maesters' bedpans, he'd have been able to ask a question or two which would've led him to a "Eureka!" moment about Jon.
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She said "Prince Ragger", she never said his last name. She's still learning to read, so she mispronounced it and Sam just kinda blew it off since he didnt understand the significance of what she was saying.
 
PoopandBoogers said:
[QUOTE="FSUSarah, post: 3025664, member:]

Sam is now Lord Tarly. Wonder when he'll get that news!
Click to expand...

He renounced those rights when he swore his vow to the watch. Not sure who would be the heir since his kid isnt legitimate either.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know. But it would be nice for Sam to be able to go back home after all this is over (if anyone survives). Tarly is just another one of the Houses being wiped off the map I guess.
 
PoopandBoogers said:
[QUOTE="FSUSarah, post: 3025664, member:]

Sam is now Lord Tarly. Wonder when he'll get that news!
Click to expand...

He renounced those rights when he swore his vow to the watch. Not sure who would be the heir since his kid isnt legitimate either.[/QUOTE]

Under the rules of male-preference primogeniture (which is what the kingdoms in Westeros follow other than Dorne which uses absolute primogeniture) then assuming he has no living brothers it would go to Sam's kid. Sam vacated his right to the title but not his kids when he took the Black. Sam's uncles (if any are alive) or cousins would not have the claim under normal male-preference primogeniture.
 
PoopandBoogers said:
Even if he's not married and his kid is a bastard and not even his?
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Yes, as long as he "acknowledges" him. Bastards are only problems in most medieval succession when it comes to proof. There have been real wars fought over unacknowledged bastards where one side props him up over the others with clearer claims. But if Sam says this is my kid under male preference primogeniture he would get it.

Now there are countries real and fictional that follow more complex rules. Everything from the simple to understand but terribly chaotic when applied agnatic (brothers inherit before sons and only when every last brother dies does it go to the sons of the oldest original male), but Westeros allegedly doesn't follow it. There does seem to be some form of elective succession employed as well (because Ramsay Snow killed his father because his father said he would give the house to his legitimate baby brother) but GRRMartin didn't describe it. Martin claims in his atlas and history book I just read that it's supposed to be "normal" male preference primogeniture for most of Westeros.

As I said Dorne (and I forgot to mention but also the Iron Islands) follow different rules. Dorne is absolute primogeniture meaning women can become rulers in their own right. And the Iron Islands follows some type of quasi-republican (not Republican Party) government where the will of the people matters to an extent.
 
With regards to House Tarly, I believe at this point, the sister is the Lady since, as mentioned, Sam renounced his rights and his "son" is a bastard. Although, Sam could legitimize him.

Gendry is important because the Baratheon line is dead without him. Robert, Stannis and Renly all failed to have heirs, so, Gendry is last in the line. Loved the nod from Davos that he thought he'd still be rowing, which I'm sure the writers added for message board fans.

Sam wouldn't have caught what Gilly was saying because she mispronounced the name and only Bran knows with the possible exception of Howland Reed. But, the importance shows that Jon is not a bastard Targaryen but the legitimate child of Rhaeger and his wife, Lyanna; thus the rightful heir.

Cersei is either lying to Jaime about the pregnancy to keep him (she knows he's wavering) or she will lose the baby. The prophecies for her have been too important and she was told she would only have 3 children and they have all come and gone.

Littlefinger is trying to drive the wedge between the Starks, it's his only play. But he has out foxed himself with Bran seeing all now and Arya not being young and naive. She kills him in the finale is my bet.

Great episode and looking forward to next week. Hoping that Jon, Tormund, the Hound and Gendry make it back. Noticed a few redshirts behind them that will certainly die, and I'm betting at least 1 of the named characters bites it, possibly two. And agree with the other poster that somehow, Dany saves the day with the Dragons. Because there is no way their little group will get a prisoner Wight and then survive when the entire army of the dead is together.
 
Sam's sister would only be the head of house Tarly IF all of the male heirs are dead. What you're describing is more of an Salic type of succession i.e. Who is closest to the original male ruler. But in regular Westeros it wouldn't go to the sister if there's living uncles or even cousins. In Dorne she WOULD be the Lady of the house regardless of Sam's kids acknowledgement or not as Sam withdrew his own claim by taking the black and there's no other brothers. But in other parts of Westeros women only hold the title if all possible male heirs are extinguished.

So basically, if Sam acknowledges the kid, it's the kid. If he doesn't for some reason, it would go to any living male heir (uncles first then first cousins) no only then to Sam's sister.
 
fsugrad06 said:
Sam wouldn't have caught what Gilly was saying because she mispronounced the name and only Bran knows with the possible exception of Howland Reed. But, the importance shows that Jon is not a bastard Targaryen but the legitimate child of Rhaeger and his wife, Lyanna; thus the rightful heir.
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Plus, Sam would only know Lyanna as Jon's aunt. The significance of the marriage would only be that she likely wasn't kidnapped and raped. Without knowledge of who Jon's mother is, the marriage isn't pertinent to the current war in the kingdom. We'll just have to wait for the complete reveal once they meet up with Bran at Winterfell.
 
If Tormund were to die it would be a tragedy, but I fear that is precisely what will happen next week. Maybe Thoros will bring him back though...never know.

We've only got a few episodes left, period. People have to start dropping like flies sooner or later.
 
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Zeek99 said:
Plus, Sam would only know Lyanna as Jon's aunt. The significance of the marriage would only be that she likely wasn't kidnapped and raped. Without knowledge of who Jon's mother is, the marriage isn't pertinent to the current war in the kingdom. We'll just have to wait for the complete reveal once they meet up with Bran at Winterfell.
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Fair enough. But Bran's visions don't prove anything since only he can see them.

The book/scroll Gilly was reading will have to come into play at some point.
 
The Jamie scene to open up the episode was hilarious. I get this has been brought up throughout the thread. But I want to chime in on just how bad it was. Even in the worst movies and shows things like this do not happen. I'm really shocked GoT let it take place. If you think about it, they didn't have to go there. Why even write the scene where Jamie attacks the dragon in the first place. Just so dumb all around.

Good episode though and I'm really liking how they are cutting out the travel time.

They say good by, and next scene they are at the place they said they would be, just as if they flew there on a Concord.

Aria better be playing Littlefinger and that creepy ass voice of his. The girl can literally disguise herself as other people, but now she tiptoeing through the castle spying on people; makes no sense.

The writing really is bad this season, but it's okay with me. They did such a good job all the previous season that it doesn't bother me. They are moving the plot and storylines along and that was biggest complaint prior to the poor writing, so I'm not complaining, just finding it funny at times; and again, the Jamie scene takes the cake. I immediately starting laughing when they popped up out of the water to begin the episode and they were completely out of harms way.
 
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DanC78 said:
The Jamie scene to open up the episode was hilarious. I get this has been brought up throughout the thread. But I want to chime in on just how bad it was. Even in the worst movies and shows things like this do not happen. I'm really shocked GoT let it take place. If you think about it, they didn't have to go there. Why even write the scene where Jamie attacks the dragon in the first place. Just so dumb all around.
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1. It definitely does happen in movies and shows...all the time. Even the best ones. But it's still cheesy, every time. This time too.
2. Jamie wasn't attacking the dragon...he was trying to kill Dany. He was basically accepting that he would die, but that Cersei could/would win/end the war, all in one fell swoop.
 
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DanC78 said:
The Jamie scene to open up the episode was hilarious. I get this has been brought up throughout the thread. But I want to chime in on just how bad it was. Even in the worst movies and shows things like this do not happen. I'm really shocked GoT let it take place. If you think about it, they didn't have to go there. Why even write the scene where Jamie attacks the dragon in the first place. Just so dumb all around.
Click to expand...

They didn't really have a choice, if he plays an important part in things to come. If he didn't charge at Dani and get knocked in the water, he would have died or had to flee. Running away would not fit with his character. Killing the Dani before she has a chance to "burn them all" fits.
 
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Zeek99 said:
They didn't really have a choice, if he plays an important part in things to come. If he didn't charge at Dani and get knocked in the water, he would have died or had to flee. Running away would not fit with his character. Killing the Dani before she has a chance to "burn them all" fits.
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yeah...that part didn't bother me. But I do beleive if they had ended the scene with Jamie looking at the tarnish and destruction, I wouldn't have questioned anything. But I do see that him going out fighting is more his style, totally get it.

It's just the silliness of them coming back up and being in a different part of the lake; it was stretching it a little. I kept thinking all week how that part was going to play out, and they didn't mess around getting back on track with the main storylines and not going down a rabbit trail as to how Jamie survives being at the bottom of the lake, knocked out, wearing heavy armor, only one hand, all while being 10 feet away from Dani and her injured dragon and hundreds of Dothroacky (sp).....it's just funny.
 
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