1. No, it is a perfect show. Nothing on TV has ever approached the majesty and execution of GoT.
2. If it's only a B or B+, what are some examples of A-rated shows, for comparison's sake.
Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 3: The Queen's Justice
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2. If it's only a B or B+, what are some examples of A-rated shows, for comparison's sake.
I'm a fan of Ow My Balls. I can't go to bed without a hot latte, a glass of Brawndo the Thirst Mutilator and watching an episode of Ow My Balls.
I'm a fan of Ow My Balls. I can't go to bed without a hot latte, a glass of Brawndo the Thirst Mutilator and watching an episode of Ow My Balls.
Just a minute I'm batin'
Love that movie lol.
Bravo
LOL, what's the point? You've already laid out your opinion, and you're welcome to it. You love what you love.
No, you're generally a well thought out poster. I was thinking perhaps you'd list a show or two that I don't know...and maybe I should watch.
I took it as Lou saying that it's a B or B+ show the last 2 seasons; and the reason for that is because it's too expensive and taxing on the actors and viewers to keep going at such a slow pace. The actors are going to die of old age before the show ever ended at the pace it was going. So because of that, they had to dumb it down a smidgen and start working towards wrapping it up; and now it's more like a B or B+ show, which is personally fine with me at this point.
But as a whole body of work (seasons 1-current), it's clearly an A or A+ show....IMO.
I'd say Band of Brothers was better. I watched the first six seasons On Demand and the show moved so slow at points I almost quit watching it several times. I play on my phone and read stuff while the show slogged through. On the other hand, this season has kept me glued to the set. Now that the table is set, they need to get the show on the road. If you want all the nitty gritty, read the books...
The misspelling of Jon's name is a great touch:
After the "rightful heir" I wish Jon would have turned around and left but that doesn't help the story.
After the "rightful heir" I wish Jon would have turned around and left but that doesn't help the story.
Danerys & Tyrion messed up one very obvious thing: when Daenerys is trying to convince Jon that to swear loyalty to her she tells him the previous King in the North was Torrhen Start, "The King Who Knelt" to the Targaryans. Wrong.
The previous King in the North was Robb Stark. Even if Daenerys didn't know this, Tyrion certainly did.
They can drop "The Unburnt" from Daenerys' dozen names...everyone on the show except for the Hound is unburnt. What is the next title, "The Oxygen Breather?" "The Self-Aggrandizer"? She is basically the same twit that glared and said "I am no ordinary woman, my dreams come true" when she was begging for ships to invade Westeros back in Season 2 or 3. If you want to barf, google that phrase and see just how much it has become a feminist rallying cry
And I agree, Euron is the best character by far right now. He is the only one who is having any fun, the rest are so busy brooding that they ought to get on the big boat with Gandalf and head to the Grey Havens.
Can we get a PPV of Euron vs. The Hound? I'd pay for that before I paid for any Mayweather fight.
The previous King in the North was Robb Stark. Even if Daenerys didn't know this, Tyrion certainly did.
They can drop "The Unburnt" from Daenerys' dozen names...everyone on the show except for the Hound is unburnt. What is the next title, "The Oxygen Breather?" "The Self-Aggrandizer"? She is basically the same twit that glared and said "I am no ordinary woman, my dreams come true" when she was begging for ships to invade Westeros back in Season 2 or 3. If you want to barf, google that phrase and see just how much it has become a feminist rallying cry
And I agree, Euron is the best character by far right now. He is the only one who is having any fun, the rest are so busy brooding that they ought to get on the big boat with Gandalf and head to the Grey Havens.
Can we get a PPV of Euron vs. The Hound? I'd pay for that before I paid for any Mayweather fight.
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Also, big props to Lady Olenna for going out like a champ. Even with Highgarden still in Tyrell hands she had little left to live for, with all the other principals gone and her new allies smashed up.
As a tribute, here she is in the 60's, as the iconic Emma Peel:
She'll need her own Avenger now
As a tribute, here she is in the 60's, as the iconic Emma Peel:
She'll need her own Avenger now
Same. I figured she'd start huffing and choking halfway through her speech, but the look on Jamie's face says they didn't know she poisoned Joffrey so no reason to give her the same death.
I thought he was going to pull his sword out and behead her; which would have been the case if this were season 2.
True. Jamie has come a long way. His character is a complete 180 from where he was in first couple seasons. Dramatic difference.
His journey has been one of the most interesting ones on the show, along w/the Hound and Jon Snow, IMO.
Lady Olenna is presumed dead, but we never actually see her die. If she was a master with developing poisons, seems she would also have a few antidotes as well and since Jaime didn't rip her head off once she revealed she was the one who killed Joffrey, maybe we will see her again.
Or maybe its just wishful thinking
Or maybe its just wishful thinking
Jaime, Jon, Sandor is a big one.
Arya's arc from the smiling little girl learning how to shoot an arrow to a unemotional killer.
Sansa from the girl who just wanted to be married to a future king and didn't understand anything about the world to where she has grown to now.
I do miss GRRM's dialogue though especially when it comes to Littlefinger and Varys. They are just kind of blowing in the wind since the beginning of last season.
Arya's arc from the smiling little girl learning how to shoot an arrow to a unemotional killer.
Sansa from the girl who just wanted to be married to a future king and didn't understand anything about the world to where she has grown to now.
I do miss GRRM's dialogue though especially when it comes to Littlefinger and Varys. They are just kind of blowing in the wind since the beginning of last season.
I guess it could all be explained once he makes his move, whatever that may be, but it's peculiar how Littlefinger is only getting (very poor) bit parts so far this season.
Not quite my opinion, but not too far off. I will say this...when GOT is at it's very very best...I think it is as good as anything on TV. What I consider it's best is grand, dramatic moments. What in wrestling would be called "high spots." When they build to something, or sometimes even just spring it on the viewer, it is very impressive, and it's hard to beat. The execution of Ned Stark, Danarys walking out of the fire with dragons, Red Wedding, several battles...really, really good stuff. Sheer "bigness" and eye candy is part of it, like in some of the battle scenes, but it's not JUST that...to say so would be to give the show too little credit.
I do think that the first couple seasons were a solid A- or A show. I never thought it was the best show on TV (let alone the best ever), and I always had some problems with it, but it consistently delivered enough of the "good stuff" to be a win.
I think later seasons have dropped off considerably, with storylines that stalled and went nowhere, plots that took up huge amounts of screen time and didn't change the playing field a bit, and much of the running time devoted to very repetitive scenes. I will never, ever forgive the Sparrows storyline. It came out of nowhere, it didn't make a whole lot of sense as it was depicted onscreen, it was pretty boring, it mostly distracted from and wasted what could have been a better storyline (Cersei vs. Margaery), and left virtually nothing in it's wake. If you fell asleep for the entire Sparrows storyline and tuned back in, you would have missed NOTHING. That was the most egregious example, but there were a lot of things that were either almost wholly unnecessary, or were dragged out well past their freshness date (Ramsey's cruelties/torture of Reek, Arya's training).
I do think the fell pretty hard to C+/B- level, with occasional moments of elevation here and there in the last couple seasons.
I think this season the show has returned to form somewhat. I think it is back to delivering the goods so far, in terms of high drama. It's not quite at it's early seasons peak, because there isn't the same sort of development around events, and it's not quite delivered a signature moment, but it is definitely doing what it does best storytelling wise. Solid B+ so far to me.
So if I was rating the series:
In it's best moments: A+
In it's best seasons: A
Overall series currently: B
Current Season: B+ (with all signs pointing up from here)
Overall series if it finishes on it's current trajectory: A-
It's one of those things, like Christopher Nolan movies...it's not enough to say it's good, I like it. If you don't say it's the best ever, people think act like you're a hater.
As for shows I like better, mostly the usual suspects, and nothing that's going to be worth checking out if Game of Thrones is your favorite show. Nothing that I'm aware of is going to out-Game of Thrones Game of Thrones. It's the best of the best at what it does, which it deserves massive credit for.
As for current and recent shows I think are better or I like better than Game of Thrones...off the top of my head...Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Better Call Saul, The Americans, Fargo, Sneaky Pete, The Wire, Deadwood, Silicon Valley, Lost, Fortitude, Happy Valley.
But, to be fair to Game of Thrones...it's not really fair to compare seven seasons of Game of Thrones to 1-3 seasons of another show. I thought The Americans and Fargo both took small but real steps back this season, and Better Call Saul arguably slipped slightly. Deadwood only had a couple seasons, Sneaky Pete only had one season, I haven't seen the second season of Fortitude yet, Happy Valley only has two 6-episode seasons etc. Some of those shows if they continue could fall off. I might have had things like Orphan Black, House of Cards or even Heroes on a list like that after a single season.
My opinion of Game of Thrones would have been considerably higher if I rated it at the point Fargo or Better Call Saul are at the moment. There's just never been a point in Game of Thrones' run that I thought it was the best thing on TV.
As for current and recent shows I think are better or I like better than Game of Thrones...off the top of my head...Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Better Call Saul, The Americans, Fargo, Sneaky Pete, The Wire, Deadwood, Silicon Valley, Lost, Fortitude, Happy Valley.
But, to be fair to Game of Thrones...it's not really fair to compare seven seasons of Game of Thrones to 1-3 seasons of another show. I thought The Americans and Fargo both took small but real steps back this season, and Better Call Saul arguably slipped slightly. Deadwood only had a couple seasons, Sneaky Pete only had one season, I haven't seen the second season of Fortitude yet, Happy Valley only has two 6-episode seasons etc. Some of those shows if they continue could fall off. I might have had things like Orphan Black, House of Cards or even Heroes on a list like that after a single season.
My opinion of Game of Thrones would have been considerably higher if I rated it at the point Fargo or Better Call Saul are at the moment. There's just never been a point in Game of Thrones' run that I thought it was the best thing on TV.
Fair enough and good distinction(s) you make.
I like(d) many of the shows you've listed just fine. I wouldn't put them above GoT, but I won't begrudge anyone who thinks Breaking Bad, for example, is a A-rated show, that's for sure.
You added the Wire in there (as many do) though. I'll go to my grave besmirching the Wire to anyone who will listen. What an awful show. To each his own obviously.
And kudos to you for such a detailed response.
Yep, couldn't be much more difference between the Wire and Game of Thrones. I haven't revisited The Wire and won't, and nothing will change the fact that when I was watching it, right at the beginning of the "golden age" of TV, I was enthralled on an episode by episode basis, to the point of being in awe. But even then, I thought the final season was a little disappointing. I can also see, given what has come since, how it wouldn't leave quite the same impression.
I figured the inclusion of Lost is a bit controversial, but that's a show I think is much in the Game of Thrones mold. At it's best, else on TV quite compares...it's high spots were incredible like GOT, it hit emotional beats the way GOT does spectacle. But it also had some really weak stuff in there. I think on whole it was still a singular success, and I feel pretty confident the way GOT is progressing that I may feel the same way at the end of the run.
I also don't rate the Sopranos as high as most. I think it also follows much the same trajectory of GOT, but if GOT ended at the end of last season. The first couple seasons were exquisite (better than GOT), but I thought it got progressively worse and frustrating. Unlike GOT, it wasn't dealing with the challenges of an unfinished written work and technical challenges, so I am actually more bitter about what it became (or didn't become) than I could ever be about GOT.
Jamie's character arc would be a bit more satisfying if he still weren't Cersei' s little puppy dog.
"Oh, you're responsible for all our kids being dead? Doesn't matter had sex"
I'm with you on this...there's something interesting with his character, but it's not quite satisfying. Not just because it's maybe not what we want (Jamie's a good guy now!) but it kind of feels unfinished/abandoned.
It's hard to kind of get a grip on where he's supposed to be. I can't tell if it's "He would be a good guy but for his love of Cersei" which would an interesting take, but I don't think it's quite there.
It's almost more like he's become defeatist/nihilistic, which is a weird way to describe it. I don't know if I feel like he has a conscience so much now as he's like "what does any of this matter?" Like, "why kill this person?" the way a depressed person my be like "what's the point of going to work?".
For example, he's obviously horrified by what Olenna tells him, but he doesn't react with beheading her, or trying inflict as much pain as he can before she dies. Is that because he's got a decent humanity, or because nothing can make him feel better about anything, given he believes everything about his life and the entire world is basically shit.
I am truly ambivalent about whether the way they've handled Jamie is very interesting and intelligent, or just a substandard job by the writers. At times it feels very complex and intelligently ambiguous, and other times it just feels like a botched face turn where they can't fully commit and just use him however they need to in a given circumstance.
I think if the idea is not so much that he's "good" now, but just totally depressed and kind of flailing around unmoored from his original value system is a more interesting idea, and credit the writers more if that's what they are going for. I'm just not quite ready to commit to the idea that his character arc is as successful or meaningful as some others (Hound, Arya) because it doesn't feel fully baked yet.
I get the feeling that Jamie thought about taking out more of a brutal revenge but came to the conclusion that Joffrey did not deserve a peaceful death that was intended and got what he deserved. I believe he came to the same conclusion with accepting his father being killed by Tyrion too. While he is in love with his sister I honestly get the feeling he knows it is wrong and that he is falling victim in her lust for power and control.
I know that the show is having Dany/Tyrion lose to bring them closer to Jon/The North while he is there to mine dragonstone, but I'm wondering if their camp has a mole. The obvious choice is Varys, but the interaction between Missandei and the Onion Knight was weird. Its just hard to believe that Tyrion is that bad at battle plans. I would really like the crap to hit the fan and see Arya kill Littlefinger and Dany get the Lannister gold next episode.
Episode 4 is suppose to be the most expensive episode in series history, yet it is only approximately 50 minutes. Which to me, means only one thing....massive CGI for a dragon battle. The title of the episode is "Spoils of War" and I think Zeek is right on that half of the prediction: Dany goes and dismantles the Lannister army and gets back some Tyrell gold.
I don't think it will be next episode, but I do think Arya kills Littlefinger. He started all of this and led to the deaths of so many Starks that Arya would be getting her poetic justice.
I don't think it will be next episode, but I do think Arya kills Littlefinger. He started all of this and led to the deaths of so many Starks that Arya would be getting her poetic justice.
I am curious about the Bran Sansa interaction. Possibly does Bran see that Sansa will betray Jon in the future?
My guess is no. Sansa has been a victim the entire time on this show. I think she remains one to the end. Getting killed by LF makes sense to me.
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