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Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."

Originally posted by GatorTheo:


Originally posted by tommynole3476:

Originally posted by GatorTheo:

Originally posted by tommynole3476:

Originally posted by GatorTheo:

Originally posted by tommynole3476:

The thing that bothers me so much about the accusations of a cover up by TPD or FSU is that for the first month of the investigation no one really knew who the possible assailant could be; because she (probably intentionally) misled investigators.
Sorry if I have these details wrong but didn't she partially identify a player? Something like 'a freshman football player named Chris'? Did TPD follow up on that? She identified the bar, right? Did TPD take a look at the surveillance tape? Seems to me like TPD passed up on a couple of no-brainers very early in the case.
Actually, as I recall (I've read the SAO report several times), she described someone, but none of the players on the team at the time fit that description.
She said there was a freshman football player named Chris involved in the evening (and there was a freshman football player named Chris involved in the evening). If you're investigating an alleged crime, you don't follow that lead? You don't take a look at the security tapes?
XX did not think she could identify anyone from a photo line-up. XX said she could possibly
identify the black male she was talking to when she and Monique went to the bathroom at Pot
Belly's; however, she was unsure if this male was involved. She said "his name was Chris and he
was a starter on the football team." When she was talking to "Chris" several girls came up to
them and asked if she knew who he was and they told her he was the only freshman starter on the
football team. She said "Chris" had big gaps in his teeth. XX did not think that "Chris" was in
the cab with her.
She remembered "Chris" talking to her about looking for his roommate but she
never saw him after the first conversation near the bathroom.
XX believed each of the three
males in the cab were FSU students because she recalled each of them trying to retrieve their
FSU ID when the cab driver asked for it. She attempted to get her ID out but the males told her
they had it covered.


So why would TPD want to talk to someone the victim says she says she never saw again, well before the alleged rape happened?

If anything, the fact she met an FSU football player that night is tangential to the investigation at this point, according to her recollection.
They talked about her interaction with Chris...who he was.....what he looked like....whether or not he was in the cab....but they don't talk to Chris?

Do you see how someone could look at that and wonder why they didn't interview the FSU football player?
I guess should could have texted her friends while waiting for the police to arrive about who they were talking with and drinking that night instead of trying to cheat on a quiz....
 
People just want to read stuff that affirms their opinions. It's like Fox vs. MSNBC, the side of the aisle you're on determines which network you think is more credible.
 
Originally posted by DeputyDodge:
People just want to read stuff that affirms their opinions. It's like Fox vs. MSNBC, the side of the aisle you're on determines which network you think is more credible.
That pretty sums up every messageboard discussion.
smile.r191677.gif
The people who agree with me are credible.
 
Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."


Originally posted by Rhino_nole:
Originally posted by GatorTheo:


Originally posted by tommynole3476:

The thing that bothers me so much about the accusations of a cover up by TPD or FSU is that for the first month of the investigation no one really knew who the possible assailant could be; because she (probably intentionally) misled investigators.
Sorry if I have these details wrong but didn't she partially identify a player? Something like 'a freshman football player named Chris'? Did TPD follow up on that? She identified the bar, right? Did TPD take a look at the surveillance tape? Seems to me like TPD passed up on a couple of no-brainers very early in the case.
A few things (facts) as someone who worked in a laboratory that did a ton of digital media forensic work. LEO weigh the importance of information vs cost all the time. The TPD interviewed friends of the accuser, had the medical examination information from the nurse and the on call doctor, interview with the accuser and they had their own experience and expertise to go on (100s if not 1000s of investigations similar to this one). They determined that things just didn't add up enough to track down a surveillance video. It happens all the time during investigations, you weigh pertinent data and follow those leads. Should they have went to the bar and viewed the tape, yes, but the word of the accuser's friend is also a strong piece of evidence combined with the physical examination.

What likely happened (and the word around LEO in Leon county) is this isn't the first time something has happened at this particular bar and they've viewed the grainy, hard to identify, too dark video footage before and it turned up nothing so they saw no particular reason to go chasing that thread. What they weren't aware of is this bar recently changed their camera to a new digital camera.

The fact is, the TPD violent crimes division went through their routine of a rape accusation and investiagion, interviewed witnesses that were immediately involved, got the information from the hospital, were waiting for the tox reports from the Tampa FDLE and during that time the accuser and her attorney cut off communication and didn't want to proceed. Another fact, if there was any chance of a rape or violent crime occurring, the TPD would have continued to investigate the case (they don't need the accuser to do this).
But, that's not what I saw on CSI
 
Re: Was it three or two???

Very interesting because I was talking to a female sheriff's deputy (FSU Alum/Softball player) down in Palm Beach County yesterday. She said that she was able to access the full FDLE report and said the report identified not two but three different DNA samples in the undies. She also told me the three names of the individual donors. I'm sure most of you would call BS on this but she said all this not me. I didn't even ask her let alone know how she would have gotten this information. Also my point is, if this is true, what does this say about the credibility of the "victim"? Especially now with her traveling the country telling everyone she's a victim of a crime.
 
Re: Was it three or two???

I don't believe it. If that's in the files, why hasn't anyone outed it?

Who were the three? Obviously Jameis, the Kent St fellow from Tampa, and ??? - anyone we would know?

Thanks!
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Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."


Originally posted by SemiNo.1e:
We look pathetic smearing the father. He said himself he knew nothing about the other boyfriend because Erica hid him from him. He was as surprised as anyone he existed. All the father did was rush to Tally in the middle of the night to support his daughter after her girlfriend made the call Erica told her not to make. No father wants to hear that call. As for him being poor because he owns a family electrician business? That's cluuueless. They are NOT poor as much as you guys keep repeating the falsehoods. Leave the father out of it!
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Are you the father?
 
Re: Was it three or two???

3rd was probably her own...that would be 3. Hard to believe 3 "donors" would not have come out.
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Re: Was it three or two???

I don't have an answer to that. The deputy also named the individuals. (first and last name). Everyone knows the first two. I won't give out the third name. I was told he was a FSU basketball player. Three different samples collected by the chaser all in one day, all in the same pair of underwear. Why was this not in the "documentary"?
 
Re: Was it three or two???

I don't believe that at all. Would be no reason to leave that out of all the reports. In fact, that would make the official reports released falsified which would blow up the issue of covering something up even more so you know her side would certainly be pushing that issue. Even if it was just a rumor it would have leaked out by now. And not all of the specimens were collected from just underwear, one was in her shorts.
 
Re: Was it three or two???

This is simply not true.

There were two and even the SOA said there where 2. They had Jameis's DNA found there and an unknown DNA sample. This is the one that Erica did not want to disclose. They ended up finding out the other DNA sample belonged to Jamal Roberts (the Ohio Football player from her area outside of Tampa).

There was no other reported DNA. The SOA would have mentioned it, Jameis's attorney would have CERTAINLY mentioned it.

The person who told you about the third does not know what they are talking about imho.
 
Re: Was it three or two???

Actually it was one...Winston's...the second was on her shorts IIRC
 
Re: Was it three or two???

Like I said in an earlier post, I always thought it was two people. The deputy I was talking to yesterday brought up all this. I didn't ask anything. She was very candid about being able to access the report. There was even another deputy there, involved in the conversation. He didn't question what she said. All I'm trying to find out is whether or not this was made up or true. I don't know why someone I've never met before would divulge the "information she did in a conversation with a stranger.
 
Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."

Originally posted by OHNole43123:


Originally posted by SemiNo.1e:
We look pathetic smearing the father. He said himself he knew nothing about the other boyfriend because Erica hid him from him. He was as surprised as anyone he existed. All the father did was rush to Tally in the middle of the night to support his daughter after her girlfriend made the call Erica told her not to make. No father wants to hear that call. As for him being poor because he owns a family electrician business? That's cluuueless. They are NOT poor as much as you guys keep repeating the falsehoods. Leave the father out of it!

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Are you the father?
Seriously. The father could have and should have shut this all down a very long time ago.
 
Re: Was it three or two???

It was 3 but the third was never identified and Ronald Darby and casher both submitted samples to prove the third wasn't theirs, but I remember hearing the the third could of been a mixture of the first two or something
 
Re: Was it three or two???

I've read that in the report btw can't believe all of the TC missed it. It said there was a third found on her face not her panties but like I said the police couldn't match it to winston the boyfriend or Darby or casher but they believe it could have been a mixture of the first two which is why it wouldn't match winston or the boyfriend
 
Re: Was it three or two???

Originally posted by lazzaro9399:
I've read that in the report btw can't believe all of the TC missed it. It said there was a third found on her face not her panties but like I said the police couldn't match it to winston the boyfriend or Darby or casher but they believe it could have been a mixture of the first two which is why it wouldn't match winston or the boyfriend

It's been over a year since I read it, but what you're saying does sound familiar. Even then, though, why did the person the OP is talking about know who the 3rd DNA belonged to?

Additionally, DNA on someone's face can happen from a kiss on the cheek, so I don't necessarily see it as damning. Unless of course it's semen lol
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Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."

Like I said earlier, I won't fault the father for continuing to support his daughter, regardless of what I think about the case.

BUT, I think the fact she hid the race of her BF from the father is a fairly major point of interest in the case. And how the father feels about non-Caucasians dating his daughter is very relevant.

This provides a legitimate answer to the question 'why would she lie about being raped?'

Because honestly, stripping away evidence, testimony, etc, I think that is a valid question. Why would any woman lie about getting raped? With everything women have to go through when they report it to the police (my wife gave me her first hand account of what it is like at the hospital, and I can assure you, it is no picnic). There has to be some motive, and the fact she hid the race of her long time boyfriend from her father satisfies that for me. I think we all have known at least one person who hid this sort of thing from their parents, it's a very common, relatable story IMO.
 
"The Case Against Jameis Winston."

Ha. This article is rich.

Essentially says he's going to be a bust because he was too famous and too good too early.

Pure trash.
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Link
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

dont link that trash so the writer can accomplish want he wanted.....profit.... just ignore and enjoy being right when all the haters are proven wrong
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

Very dumb article. Winston is a film and preparation junkie.


"They achieved that status on talent alone. They didn't have to earn it through film study, practice, and attention to detail"



Ridiculous that he compares that to Winston.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

Originally posted by danoleman:
Very dumb article. Winston is a film and preparation junkie.


"They achieved that status on talent alone. They didn't have to earn it through film study, practice, and attention to detail"



Ridiculous that he compares that to Winston.
It is amazing how many ignorant people have such a big microphone. They clearly don't know who they are reporting about.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."


Straight from the aforementioned article:

There is no denying Jameis Winston's[/I] ability. His football acumen is unquestioned. Between the hash marks, "Famous Jameis" is Picasso. The pigskin is his brush. His downfield vision and ability to read coverages is like modernist, or post-modernist art. . . or something.
Okay, I've got to drop the, "I might know something about art gimmick." In truth, I don't even know Picasso's first name.
But I do know something about football. And I don't think Jameis Winston is going to make a great NFL quarterback.
Here's why: Jameis Winston is too good[/I] and too famous[/I]. He was a star in college. He peaked too soon. Recent history shows that too much talent and too much fame is a bad combination for elite college quarterbacks transitioning to the NFL.
Here's the list: Matt Leinart[/I]. Vince Young[/I]. Brady Quinn[/I]. Mark Sanchez[/I]. Tim Tebow[/I]. Johnny Manziel[/I].
What do those guys have in common, other than being NFL busts? Well, they are all physically gifted and were great college quarterbacks. Their greatness and skill created a media frenzy while they were still in school. That early success made each player larger than life. Invincible. Even the mild-mannered, Tim Tebow had a media caravan following him before he was drafted. They were nationally recognized stars[/I]. They were public figures. Celebrities. They were on TV, in magazines, doing commercials, signing endorsement deals-before they were ready.
They achieved that status on talent alone. They didn't have to earn it through film study, practice, and attention to detail. They just laced up the cleats and set the competition on fire. And they all found out that just showing up on Sunday doesn't work in the NFL. You've got to put in the unappreciated, unheralded hours of preparation to be great in the NFL.
Even in 2014 I was concerned that Johnny Manziel's partying and lack of NFL preparation could hurt Jameis Winston's draft stock. Almost every mock draft has Jameis Winston being drafted first by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but can he live up to expectations?
Here's another list, opposite of the high-profile college quarterbacks: Andrew Luck[/I], Aaron Rodgers[/I], Russell Wilson[/I], and perhaps, Marcus Mariota[/I]. These guys kept their heads down in college. Their faces weren't all over the Internet and Twitter. They worked hard, they practiced hard, they studied the game instead of basking in the spotlight. Everyone knew Andrew Luck was a transcendent talent when he began playing at Stanford, but you never saw him other than in a humble post-game interview. Andrew Luck could only be found for a few hours on Saturday, and then he disappeared again. The great quarterbacks who weren't nationally recognized stars in college worked harder to achieve their dreams. They studied harder. They practiced harder. They couldn't skate by on natural ability alone, but because they worked toward greatness in college their work ethic helped them become elite NFL quarterbacks.
If Jameis Winston doesn't think he becomes a NFL quarterback until he's drafted, he's sorely mistaken. He's been a "pro" quarterback for quite sometime. Everything he's done over the last several years has been a resume-building process to officially begin his NFL career. Showing up to the combine in anything less than perfect physical shape is unacceptable, and a sign of things to come in the NFL.
Does Famous Jameis have the pedigree and work ethic to lock himself in a dark room like Peyton Manning[/I] and study film in the offseason? Will be lifting by himself and running sprints on Friday nights? Once he's drafted will he be the first to arrive at the team facility and the last to leave? Will he sleep with a playbook under his pillow?
If the answer to any of those questions is "No," then Famous Jameis[/I]-the most recognizable of all the star college quarterbacks before him-won't excel at the NFL level.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

Originally posted by Helluvanengineer:

Straight from the aforementioned article:

There is no denying Jameis Winston's[/I] ability. His football acumen is unquestioned. Between the hash marks, "Famous Jameis" is Picasso. The pigskin is his brush. His downfield vision and ability to read coverages is like modernist, or post-modernist art. . . or something.
Okay, I've got to drop the, "I might know something about art gimmick." In truth, I don't even know Picasso's first name.
But I do know something about football. And I don't think Jameis Winston is going to make a great NFL quarterback.
Here's why: Jameis Winston is too good[/I] and too famous[/I]. He was a star in college. He peaked too soon. Recent history shows that too much talent and too much fame is a bad combination for elite college quarterbacks transitioning to the NFL.
Here's the list: Matt Leinart[/I]. Vince Young[/I]. Brady Quinn[/I]. Mark Sanchez[/I]. Tim Tebow[/I]. Johnny Manziel[/I].
What do those guys have in common, other than being NFL busts? Well, they are all physically gifted and were great college quarterbacks. Their greatness and skill created a media frenzy while they were still in school. That early success made each player larger than life. Invincible. Even the mild-mannered, Tim Tebow had a media caravan following him before he was drafted. They were nationally recognized stars[/I]. They were public figures. Celebrities. They were on TV, in magazines, doing commercials, signing endorsement deals-before they were ready.
They achieved that status on talent alone. They didn't have to earn it through film study, practice, and attention to detail. They just laced up the cleats and set the competition on fire. And they all found out that just showing up on Sunday doesn't work in the NFL. You've got to put in the unappreciated, unheralded hours of preparation to be great in the NFL.
Even in 2014 I was concerned that Johnny Manziel's partying and lack of NFL preparation could hurt Jameis Winston's draft stock. Almost every mock draft has Jameis Winston being drafted first by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but can he live up to expectations?
Here's another list, opposite of the high-profile college quarterbacks: Andrew Luck[/I], Aaron Rodgers[/I], Russell Wilson[/I], and perhaps, Marcus Mariota[/I] . These guys kept their heads down in college. Their faces weren't all over the Internet and Twitter. They worked hard, they practiced hard, they studied the game instead of basking in the spotlight. Everyone knew Andrew Luck was a transcendent talent when he began playing at Stanford, but you never saw him other than in a humble post-game interview. Andrew Luck could only be found for a few hours on Saturday, and then he disappeared again. The great quarterbacks who weren't nationally recognized stars in college worked harder to achieve their dreams. They studied harder. They practiced harder. They couldn't skate by on natural ability alone, but because they worked toward greatness in college their work ethic helped them become elite NFL quarterbacks.
If Jameis Winston doesn't think he becomes a NFL quarterback until he's drafted, he's sorely mistaken. He's been a "pro" quarterback for quite sometime. Everything he's done over the last several years has been a resume-building process to officially begin his NFL career. Showing up to the combine in anything less than perfect physical shape is unacceptable, and a sign of things to come in the NFL.
Does Famous Jameis have the pedigree and work ethic to lock himself in a dark room like Peyton Manning[/I] and study film in the offseason? Will be lifting by himself and running sprints on Friday nights? Once he's drafted will he be the first to arrive at the team facility and the last to leave? Will he sleep with a playbook under his pillow?
If the answer to any of those questions is "No," then Famous Jameis[/I]-the most recognizable of all the star college quarterbacks before him-won't excel at the NFL level.
He compared him to Tim tebow... WOW
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Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

If it's trash and negative why link it to give them hits, that makes no sense.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

This is a clown article. It's so simplistic. Tebow didn't have the skill set for NFL QB and ran a system that never forced him to develop one but to say he had a poor work ethic is dumb. Marcus the great won't be a good QB because he is a "quiet leader" he ll be successful if he develops his skill set enough to operate an NFL system. JW5 is a savant because he has always studied from the beginning of his career. It's so simple minded to simply say that because someone is talented that they don't work as hard as other players. Aaron Rodgers isn't great cause he keeps his head down the guy is a very cocky dude to the point it rubbed some teammates the wrong way. Rodgers is good because he gets the ball out of his hands quick and can throw the ball from just about any angle. This guy is lazy.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

I don't trust anything from a man whose picture shows a grown man head and the body of a prepubescent boy.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

Originally posted by JimboNole10:
Originally posted by jrnix11:
If it's trash and negative why link it to give them hits, that makes no sense.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

Whoops.

I link to provide an educative example how misinformed most are. To be the most knowledgable fan base, we need to know the thoughts on both sides of the aisle.

The don't link rationale crowd is amateur at best
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."


Why is it that all the "experts" who write about Jameis and all of his "faults" are the same ones who often have never met or spoken to him?
 
Several things:

1. People have used the Casher thing to try and show that TPD didn't pursue the case because football players were involved, but I actually think it's one of the biggest holes in the girl's story. She admits to knowing him, but then states she didn't see him after the bar. Casher was clearly in the cab and at the apartment. That's a fact. It's rather convenient that the girl is "mistaken" about the whereabouts of a primary witness - a witness that just so happens to completely contradict her version of events.

2. Cops are ALWAYS suspicious of "I can't remember" type of answers. "I can't remember" translates to "I was doing something that I don't want to own up to". The Robert Allenby story is a perfect example. Dollars to donuts that the reason he "can't remember" is because he was trying to score drugs or a hooker and doesn't want to cop to it. I'm not saying that people don't get drugged. It certainly happens and it's terrible. Totally blanking on events that happened yesterday is suspicious though. There's really no getting around that.

3. Part of my problem with the criticism of TPD is that law enforcement in general has to protect the accuser. Rape is a very personal and embarrassing crime to be a victim of. It's not as though TPD can go around campus with a photo saying "This is ____ _____. She got raped last night. Do you have any information?" They have to conduct their investigation in a manner that preserves some privacy for the accuser. To then turn the gun on them and say they should have been more proactive and assertive is wrong IMO.
 
Re: "The Case Against Jameis Winston."

When the author attempts to persuade you into thinking he's a football expert by stating he's not a artist, you know there are going to be serious flaws in his argument.
 
Re: "I'm fairly certain there was something in that drink."



Originally posted by GatorTheo:


Originally posted by DeputyDodge:

In retrospect, sure. Especially if you want to believe Jameis is guilty and the beneficiary of a huge coverup.
You don't have to believe Jameis is guilty in order to believe there was a coverup.
Yes, yes you do. That would be the very definition, or else what is being covered up?



Originally posted by Rhino_nole:

Originally posted by GatorTheo:



Originally posted by tommynole3476:

The thing that bothers me so much about the accusations of a cover up by TPD or FSU is that for the first month of the investigation no one really knew who the possible assailant could be; because she (probably intentionally) misled investigators.
Sorry if I have these details wrong but didn't she partially identify a player? Something like 'a freshman football player named Chris'? Did TPD follow up on that? She identified the bar, right? Did TPD take a look at the surveillance tape? Seems to me like TPD passed up on a couple of no-brainers very early in the case.
A few things (facts) as someone who worked in a laboratory that did a ton of digital media forensic work. LEO weigh the importance of information vs cost all the time. The TPD interviewed friends of the accuser, had the medical examination information from the nurse and the on call doctor, interview with the accuser and they had their own experience and expertise to go on (100s if not 1000s of investigations similar to this one). They determined that things just didn't add up enough to track down a surveillance video. It happens all the time during investigations, you weigh pertinent data and follow those leads. Should they have went to the bar and viewed the tape, yes, but the word of the accuser's friend is also a strong piece of evidence combined with the physical examination.

What likely happened (and the word around LEO in Leon county) is this isn't the first time something has happened at this particular bar and they've viewed the grainy, hard to identify, too dark video footage before and it turned up nothing so they saw no particular reason to go chasing that thread. What they weren't aware of is this bar recently changed their camera to a new digital camera.

The fact is, the TPD violent crimes division went through their routine of a rape accusation and investiagion, interviewed witnesses that were immediately involved, got the information from the hospital, were waiting for the tox reports from the Tampa FDLE and during that time the accuser and her attorney cut off communication and didn't want to proceed. Another fact, if there was any chance of a rape or violent crime occurring, the TPD would have continued to investigate the case (they don't need the accuser to do this).
I can't give this post enough respect. It is well reasoned, thought out and logical.
 
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