proof of vaccination or COVID-19 test to attend game

[Dhersh]

No way that is possible in the short time between development and EUA release.

I strongly disagree. Never in the history of mankind have we seen a global response like this where these types of resources, funding, academia, science, pharmaceuticals, government, etc. from around the world pooled to find a solution given the technology and general scientific understanding that we have.

The last pandemic began in 2009 and lasted 15 months. It is designated as the influenza A (H1N1)pdm09 virus, and major resources were poured into finding a solution to stop people from dying. Despite the fact that millions of doses of a vaccine were produced, the majority of those doses went unused and money stopped flowing to academia after the pandemic ended. Therefore, research stopped, and now 12 years later, there is little research being done, and therefore there is not a widely used vaccine.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how deadly or contagious a virus is when it comes to researching how to stop it. The only thing that matters is the amount of money and resources being provided to study it. Without these things, academia can't take place. And that is where COVID-19 separates itself. We have never seen the world come together to stop a virus like this.

 

[mjpwooo]

I strongly disagree. Never in the history of mankind have we seen a global response like this where these types of resources, funding, academia, science, pharmaceuticals, government, etc. from around the world pooled to find a solution given the technology and general scientific understanding that we have.

The last pandemic began in 2009 and lasted 15 months. It is designated as the influenza A (H1N1)pdm09 virus, and major resources were poured into finding a solution to stop people from dying. Despite the fact that millions of doses of a vaccine were produced, the majority of those doses went unused and money stopped flowing to academia after the pandemic ended. Therefore, research stopped, and now 12 years later, there is little research being done, and therefore there is not a widely used vaccine.

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how deadly or contagious a virus is when it comes to researching how to stop it. The only thing that matters is the amount of money and resources being provided to study it. Without these things, academia can't take place. And that is where COVID-19 separates itself. We have never seen the world come together to stop a virus like this.

I wish the same could be done for cancer. (dad died from pancreatic cancer 15 years ago)

 

[chumleynole]

I think you may be conflating me with other conversations you have had in this thread?

i called out solely the claim of 950,000 doctors vaccinated as it was presented as fact.

i am not going to defend AAPS, i disagree with many if not most of their stances, in particular their stance on vax linked autism, much like i disagree with some of the positions that AMA has taken. AAPS was referenced simply because it's an association of several thousand member physicians and provided an alternate data point since you had already rejected the AMA study that i first posted.

i would have posted the medscape poll but it sits behind a pay wall so is not accessible for most.

another comparison might be:

in 2019 194M Americans received the flu vaccine. per VAERS reports 18 people died within 72 hours of receiving the flu vaccine. the timeframe for that report is August 2019 through July 2020.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

compare that to 4,953 reported deaths within 72 hours of receiving COVID vaccine. timeframe December 2020 through August 2021.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

Your links still do not work for me. But let me understand correctly what you said. You said that in the neighborhood of 1700 people died within 24 hours of a Vaccine. I checked on some things and I will try to look at your data later but so far 170,000,000 people have been vaccinated. That works out to around 765,000 people per day since the first of the year. Statistically out of 765,000 people you should expect around 17 deaths daily. There have been 231 days so far this year. Multiply 231 by 17 and you are way over 1700. Since I could not access your data, were those 1700 deaths due to adverse reactions according to the data or just people that died period? If I remember right you just said died after a vaccine. By the way because of the two dose vaccines some of those deaths were probably after more then 24 hours, provided it was the second dose that preceded the death. If it is just people that died in general then the vaccinated are dying at a much lower rate then average and conversely the vaccinated at a much higher rate.

 

[ChiefWB]

Regardless of where the reported incidents are coming from they still need to be investigated to determine the cause. That is the entire purpose of VAERS, to look for any adverse reactions that are caused by the drug.

That original purpose appears to have been hijacked.

 

[Dhersh]

I wish the same could be done for cancer. (dad died from pancreatic cancer 15 years ago)

Both my parents had it. **** cancer.

The same can be said for HIV, the only other ongoing pandemic. There is actually a very good episode of South Park about this (despite general opinions on the show, certain episodes focus on important issues). In the episode, Cartman is infected with HIV and purposefully infects Kyle. Together, they decide to find out how to stop the virus from killing them. They wind up going to Erving "Magic" Johnson's house to ask him (NSFW, language) and after he shows them around his house, they find out he has survived so long after being infected because he sleeps with money. The episode as a whole is silly and overall hilarious imo, but I don't think I need to explain the point being made lol.

 

[440yddash]

I'll wear one for extra protection even though I've been vaccinated.

Smart. I’ll bet you graduated from FSU.

 

[chumleynole]

another comparison might be:

in 2019 194M Americans received the flu vaccine. per VAERS reports 18 people died within 72 hours of receiving the flu vaccine. the timeframe for that report is August 2019 through July 2020.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

compare that to 4,953 reported deaths within 72 hours of receiving COVID vaccine. timeframe December 2020 through August 2021.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

Ok I have done more research. If someone drowns within 24 hours it is considered an adverse reaction according to Vaers. Therefore the death rate within 24 hours is far less then the statistical average for the community you are discussing. The death rate is actually significantly lower then the unvaccinated for the period of time you site. The conclusion most likely is that the vaccinated make much better decisions about their health care in general then the unvaccinated.

 

[AllNoles]

Problem is waiting on long term effects is less and less valuable as time passes. Most reactions are immediate. There are some bad really long terms ones at times, but those can show decades later.

If we can’t use a properly vetted vaccine with over a year of real world data on top of the test data, when do we use it? Wait 15-20 years?

It’s more likely we will see longer term effects of having had covid than the vaccines.

 

[chumleynole]

another comparison might be:

in 2019 194M Americans received the flu vaccine. per VAERS reports 18 people died within 72 hours of receiving the flu vaccine. the timeframe for that report is August 2019 through July 2020.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

compare that to 4,953 reported deaths within 72 hours of receiving COVID vaccine. timeframe December 2020 through August 2021.

Search Results from the VAERS Database

Based on what I have read and again I have not looked at the raw data the flue numbers you quote are statistically impossible. I believe you are comparing apples to oranges here.

 

[chumleynole]

I'm concerned for my long term health and my family's yes. I'm responsible for them. As a healthy 46yo male, I am not concerned with LT effects of COVID, although I know there may be a risk. I'm comfortable taking on that very small risk.

You need to be responsible for your family. If you feel you need to get the vaccine to protect yourself, I hope you do so. I encourage anyone concerned to do their own research and make their own decision.

If you're concerned about LT effects of the vaccine, don't take the vaccine. If you're concerned about LT effects of COVID, and would rather take the vaccine, and assume the risk in that, you should do it. It's as simple as that.

<<As an aside, I also think people need to be less obese, which will DIRECTLY lead to less COVID deaths...and less 'other' death, less diabetes deaths, prob less AD, less cancer too. But you should know this, and be strongly encouraging people to get fit, or at least lose weight. I've never seen you be hard lined about losing weight vs ME getting the vaccine. I think that's weird and misguided.

Losing weight will dramatically lower one's risk to not only die of COVID, but will have significantly better effects for their whole life than just COVID. You seem to only care about COVID deaths. You should know this but I've NEVER seen you write about it. Which is also weird to me.

If people were in better shape, and instead of 650k american deaths, there were 300k deaths, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE LOST 20 POUNDS isn't that better than forcing ME to get a vaccine? if you disagree, again, I think that's weird. But you can think and do what you choose, just I can.>>

One of my biggest pet peeves are people whose health and quality of life suck because they are morbidly obese. I have an older sister like this. She needs to a walker to walk and the only thing preventing her to be unable to walk absolutely normally is that she is easily twice the weight she should be. If she were of normal weight she would be able to run. I see this every day in from people at church to the grocery store. I cannot understand why people allow this to happen to themselves. Having said that the Delta Variant is killing middle aged healthy people too. I know of two people with a similar age to you that would be considered by most people very healthy that have recently died.

 

[SteveT1]

This is a very simple point to resolve. Look at the excess death total. It exceeds the total attributed to Covid. Any other debate on this is unnecessary.

What does the excess death total take into account? I’m not sure how the excess death total resolves inflated total covid death numbers, which every branch of government uses to make decisions.

 

[SteveT1]

VAERS - FAQs

from HHS.gov

Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by CDC:

• Vaccine administration errors, whether or not associated with an adverse event (AE)
• Serious AEs regardless of causality. Serious AEs per FDA are defined as:
  1. Death;
  2. A life-threatening AE;
  3. Inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization;
  4. A persistent or significant incapacity or substantial disruption of the ability to conduct normal life functions;
  5. A congenital anomaly/birth defect;
  6. An important medical event that based on appropriate medical judgement may jeopardize the individual and may require medical or surgical intervention to prevent one of the outcomes listed above.
• Cases of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome
• Cases of COVID-19 that result in hospitalization or death

Healthcare providers are encouraged to report to VAERS any additional clinically significant AEs following vaccination, even if they are not sure if vaccination caused the event.

Surgeon who can no longer practice following the 2nd vax dose is just filing his report, after hoping for months his issues would go away. But as noted elsewhere in this thread, he’s just a datapoint now and reality is far worse for him and those in need of his services (lives in rural area) with his career likely over.

 

[chumleynole]

What does the excess death total take into account? I’m not sure how the excess death total resolves inflated total covid death numbers, which every branch of government uses in policy decisions, and legality.

Take a look at this. I would say this table indicates Covid deaths under repolrted Excess deaths are the number of deaths that exceeded predictions.
Table. Number of Deaths for Leading Causes of Death, US, 2015-2020a
View LargeDownload

 

[Dhersh]

Well this is quite unfortunate.

 

[GbrNole]

One of my biggest pet peeves are people whose health and quality of life suck because they are morbidly obese. I have an older sister like this. She needs to a walker to walk and the only thing preventing her to be unable to walk absolutely normally is that she is easily twice the weight she should be. If she were of normal weight she would be able to run. I see this every day in from people at church to the grocery store. I cannot understand why people allow this to happen to themselves. Having said that the Delta Variant is killing middle aged healthy people too. I know of two people with a similar age to you that would be considered by most people very healthy that have recently died.

it doesn't discriminate by age but healthy people under 50 are in stratospherically different risk bracket than people over 50, healthy or otherwise. the delta deaths continue to be absolutely dominated by people 50 and over.

 

[Dhersh]

I've never been a fan of the "let's talk about who specifically is dying" argument.

 

[GbrNole]

Well this is quite unfortunate.

View embedded media

unfortunately it won't be any better in this weeks upcoming report either but overall cases did tick down in florida last week so hopefully that is a sign of improvement.

it is troubling that cases in the 65+ age group in florida have grown week over week during delta. that seems odd for a population of people where 99% have received at least one vaccination shot and >86% are fully vaxxed. the only other age group in florida where cases have been up week over week is the <16 age group. every other age group is flat or trending down.

 

[GbrNole]

I've never been a fan of the "let's talk about who specifically is dying" argument.

do you mean anecdotally on an individual basis or statistically across a segment? or both?

 

[Dhersh]

do you mean anecdotally on an individual basis or statistically across a segment? or both?

Anecdotally. Reason being is because as average citizens, we shouldn't be as concerned with the fact that "n people died and they were this old and most had comorbidities." Those are statistics and to the average person they shouldn't be as important as the first part: "n people died."

Instead, people focus on the statistics. It consumes them. They justify their own personal decisions based on it, with lack of regard for anyone else. Dare I say, that is, by definition, selfish? Someone will probably throw a hissy fit because I said that. That's ok I'm not going to engage them if they respond. Because while they are focusing on that, the fact still remains that "n people died" and how you group the people doesn't change that.

 

[89nole]

LSU requires a vax or a test to attend games.

 

[Dhersh]

unfortunately it won't be any better in this weeks upcoming report either but overall cases did tick down in florida last week so hopefully that is a sign of improvement.

it is troubling that cases in the 65+ age group in florida have grown week over week during delta. that seems odd for a population of people where 99% have received at least one vaccination shot and >86% are fully vaxxed. the only other age group in florida where cases have been up week over week is the <16 age group. every other age group is flat or trending down.

It's just crazy to me how cases are exploding in states like Florida, where deaths are very high and still climbing. Meanwhile, in the state with the closest population to Florida, they have had consistently low deaths for some time. I would be willing to wager that something or things are occuring in one of those states but not the other that is causing it to happen.

 

[Dhersh]

@GbrNole for the record I understand why those statistics are interesting to a lot of people. I find them interesting too. But people take it to mean everything.

 

[ChiefWB]

LSU puts stringent COVID rules in place for fans

LSU is requiring all fans age 12 and older attending football games this season to provide proof of vaccination or a negative PCR test taken within the last 72 hours to enter Tiger Stadium.

www.espn.com

 

[GbrNole]

It's just crazy to me how cases are exploding in states like Florida, where deaths are very high and still climbing. Meanwhile, in the state with the closest population to Florida, they have had consistently low deaths for some time. I would be willing to wager that something or things are occuring in one of those states but not the other that is causing it to happen.

florida is different in its disproportionately larger population of 65+ being approx 21.5% of florida's population vs about 16.2% for the national average. it answers some questions but certainly not all.

unlike the flu, COVID appears to just thrive in the heat. another nuance of coronavirus in general that sets them apart from other RNA viruses. i haven't looked up a graphic but it wouldn't surprise me to see COVID national hotspots falling inline with the temperature blanket covering the US?

 

[sgvarn]

Now that LSU has mandated proof of vaccination or negative Covid test prior to entry to Tiger Stadium, do we expect to see restrictions or similar requirements at Doak?
Serious question. Has anyone heard anything yet?

 

[chumleynole]

florida is different in its disproportionately larger population of 65+ being approx 21.5% of florida's population vs about 16.2% for the national average. it answers some questions but certainly not all.

unlike the flu, COVID appears to just thrive in the heat. another nuance of coronavirus in general that sets them apart from other RNA viruses. i haven't looked up a graphic but it wouldn't surprise me to see COVID national hotspots falling inline with the temperature blanket covering the US?

Outside temp is not the issue. This thing primarily spreads indoors. People in Florida right now stay in AC a lot. Initially it was believed heat would kill the virus. I have not heard that this was changed.

 

[Dhersh]

florida is different in its disproportionately larger population of 65+ being approx 21.5% of florida's population vs about 16.2% for the national average. it answers some questions but certainly not all.

I considered that as well and drew the same conclusion as you.

unlike the flu, COVID appears to just thrive in the heat. another nuance of coronavirus in general that sets them apart from other RNA viruses. i haven't looked up a graphic but it wouldn't surprise me to see COVID national hotspots falling inline with the temperature blanket covering the US?

I've seen a lot of mixed reporting on how COVID-19 responds in different temperatures. Originally, health experts said that it was able to spread more easily in cold weather. I believe it was due to the virus's ability to survive on a surface. But I'm not convinced one way or another because its hard to find a solid answer, at least when I search online.

 

[CubNole]

OK with me. I'm fully vaccinated.

 

[NorvellsavedFSU]

It will start happening more and more places.,Unvaccinated made their choice which is their right but there will be consequences like this for their decision

 

[SB-Nole]

I doubt it. I feel like if FL schools did this, DeSantis would threaten to take away state funding.

 

[GbrNole]

Outside temp is not the issue. This thing primarily spreads indoors. People in Florida right now stay in AC a lot. Initially it was believed heat would kill the virus. I have not heard that this was changed.

that's a fair rationale too. my thought on that is skewed by the fact i spend as much time outdoors during florida summer as i do at any other time of the year. far less comfortably of course!

 

[mxhudso]

I doubt with Governor DeSantis that FSU can get away with that kind of restriction.

 

[chumleynole]

Me too but this last week has been brutal.

 

[Dhersh]

I doubt it. I feel like if FL schools did this, DeSantis would threaten to take away state funding.

Man that seems like such an abuse of power.

Based on what I have read, it is within FSU's rights to do it. Currently at least. I think this decision will go a long way in determining the early approval rating of FSU's new president 😁

 

[GbrNole]

Me too but this last week has been brutal.

approaching every stop light on my bike is a balance of controlling speed to keep air moving while i wait for it to turn green or an all out sprint to make it through the intersection before it turns red!

having to stop is just punishment! 🤣

i'd ride my MTB to avoid the traffic but the trails are either flooded from rain or the humidity is just brutal under the tree canopies.

 

[SB-Nole]

Man that seems like such an abuse of power.

Based on what I have read, it is within FSU's rights to do it. Currently at least. I think this decision will go a long way in determining the early approval rating of FSU's new president 😁

Nah man. It's totally a limited government move.

/s

 

[mxhudso]

The virus really doesn't spread outdoors in open air.

Man - Covid has become a religion in this country. Geez.

 

[FSU3368]

Article on ESPN site states LSU is requiring proof of vaccine or a negative PCR test within past 72 hours to attend home football games. Hope the place is boycotted.

 

[elleby_13]

Who cares? Let them do what they want.

 

[mxhudso]

Agree - if half the crowd shows up they reverse course quickly.