You’re concerned about the long term effects but you’re not concerned about the long term effects of being seriously ill with Covid? The thing that’s actually killed millions of people?
proof of vaccination or COVID-19 test to attend game
- Thread starter GvilleNole
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I could not get the link to work so maybe there is more to this then I am aware of. However the vaccine was given to as many as 100 million people. If I took 100 million people a certain percentage of them will die within 24 hours. I do not know if that is a high or low number. It may be about right.
This is a very simple point to resolve. Look at the excess death total. It exceeds the total attributed to Covid. Any other debate on this is unnecessary.
I'm concerned for my long term health and my family's yes. I'm responsible for them. As a healthy 46yo male, I am not concerned with LT effects of COVID, although I know there may be a risk. I'm comfortable taking on that very small risk.
You need to be responsible for your family. If you feel you need to get the vaccine to protect yourself, I hope you do so. I encourage anyone concerned to do their own research and make their own decision.
If you're concerned about LT effects of the vaccine, don't take the vaccine. If you're concerned about LT effects of COVID, and would rather take the vaccine, and assume the risk in that, you should do it. It's as simple as that.
<<As an aside, I also think people need to be less obese, which will DIRECTLY lead to less COVID deaths...and less 'other' death, less diabetes deaths, prob less AD, less cancer too. But you should know this, and be strongly encouraging people to get fit, or at least lose weight. I've never seen you be hard lined about losing weight vs ME getting the vaccine. I think that's weird and misguided.
Losing weight will dramatically lower one's risk to not only die of COVID, but will have significantly better effects for their whole life than just COVID. You seem to only care about COVID deaths. You should know this but I've NEVER seen you write about it. Which is also weird to me.
If people were in better shape, and instead of 650k american deaths, there were 300k deaths, JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE LOST 20 POUNDS isn't that better than forcing ME to get a vaccine? if you disagree, again, I think that's weird. But you can think and do what you choose, just I can.>>
That's a GREAT question, and one I don't know the answer to. What is the normal course of a vaccine trial?
They haven’t had enough time to fully investigate the VAERS reports. It is too soon. It could be a case of certain physical ailments are causing the death due to the vaccine making it worse. It could be an reaction to certain drugs.
No one is forcing you to get a vaccine. I’m fine with everyone making their own choice. However, what annoys me are the people that say their hesitant about the vaccine but are also against any type of measures to risk spread to begin with.
VAERS is not reliable in any way, shape or form. it's garbage numbers that are completely meaningless, and should not be taken seriously under any circumstances.....
If that number is correct/accurate, I wish we could have had this vaccine in trial for 5 years. Will I wait 5 years? I don't know. Likely not, as I'd imagine there will be some side effects, if they exist, coming to light well before the 5 year mark. The problem will be correlation/causation, of course. So, someone gets XYZ condition, was it the vaccine, was it something else? Who knows, and folks on all sides will continue to both manipulate the numbers and ignore the numbers.
Or the vaers reports could be largely embellished. I do find it interesting when people keep saying the “data isnt there long term” and “I don’t trust what we are being told”, but then cite what amounts to the legitimacy of a Yelp review by sourcing the Vaers reports.
There is NO DOUBT that VAERS is embellished. But I could make the same claim that the COVID death number are embellished, due to hospital coding, etc. And if I make that claim, I better have facts to back my claim up.
Is it fair to say that VAERS reported deaths are higher now than in several years' past? The answer is yes. If VAERS deaths have averaged 3000 a year (or whatever it is) until 2020/21, and how VAERS deaths are 15k (or whatever it is), have things been embellished 5x?
I don't know that answer, but it prob needs to be explored so that everyone has facts.
that's not entirely true in this instance. under emergency use mandate, health care professionals are required to report adverse events to VAERS.
you can bet your bottom dollar that the number of pfizer daily reports will drop beginning today and others as they become approved since physicians aren't required to report on that drug now.
I think there is an incentive for some to claim the vaccine is not only useless, but a threat. All you have to do is take a look on social media. This board. And I stopped thinking Covid deaths were contrived when I started seeing people around me die. The reality of that makes things seem less manipulated.
“Anyone can report to VAERS.”
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Questions and Answers
VAERS is a national vaccine safety surveillance program created as an outgrowth of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (NCVIA) and is administered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
But couldn't you say there's an incentive for some to claim COVID is going to kill everyone you know, etc etc? Get the vaccine and save yourself, etc? Who would benefit from that? There's disingenuousness on both sides here, IMO.
I'm not conspiracy theory mongering here, I'm just asking the question.
(And I have never once said folks shouldn't take COVID seriously, especially if they are high risk and/or really concerned.)
Covid is killing people. That much has been established. So yes, there is a big incentive to push the vaccine IMO.
another comparison might be:
in 2019 194M Americans received the flu vaccine. per VAERS reports 18 people died within 72 hours of receiving the flu vaccine. the timeframe for that report is August 2019 through July 2020.
compare that to 4,953 reported deaths within 72 hours of receiving COVID vaccine. timeframe December 2020 through August 2021.
from HHS.gov“Anyone can report to VAERS.”
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Questions and Answers
VAERS is a national vaccine safety surveillance program created as an outgrowth of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (NCVIA) and is administered by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).www.fda.gov
Healthcare providers are required to report to VAERS the following adverse events after COVID-19 vaccination [under Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)], and other adverse events if later revised by CDC:
- Vaccine administration errors, whether or not associated with an adverse event (AE)
- Serious AEs regardless of causality. Serious AEs per FDA are defined as:
- Death;
- A life-threatening AE;
- Inpatient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization;
- A persistent or significant incapacity or substantial disruption of the ability to conduct normal life functions;
- A congenital anomaly/birth defect;
- An important medical event that based on appropriate medical judgement may jeopardize the individual and may require medical or surgical intervention to prevent one of the outcomes listed above.
- Cases of Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome
- Cases of COVID-19 that result in hospitalization or death
So, the next question is...is VAERS being embellished, between these two data sets, by 275x?
there's no doubt that excess deaths have occurred, it's plain to see.
usually i would ignore VAERS data but the difference here is that health care workers had to report it. it's very easy to see in the VAERS reports when joe average submitted a report vs. a health care worker.
In my experience, all of the above. But that doesn’t take into account at what rate and what effects short of death the virus brings. I understand that people like to blanket themselves in data, whether contrived or otherwise, that’s not much of a comfort to the many people this has decimated. The reality is completely different.
Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public
Successful reporting system helps flag real problems but is being twisted in COVID-19 era
www.sciencemag.org
well there's no emergency use on the flu vaccine so there was no absolute requirement for adverse events to be reported by health care workers.
click on the links and read the reports. it's quite easy to see what types of people have submitted them.
the median age for the people that have died within 72 hours of the COVID vaccine is 73. the 65+ population dominates the VAERS category like they do COVID in general.
I agree...if you're one of the few who's a parent of a kid who's died from this, you don't care what the data says. Unfortunately, I have personal experience with a kid dying.
All I'm saying is that - for good or for bad - you've got to make decisions using data. And the data needs to be accurate. What is MY risk, based on the numbers, and I'll act accordingly, based on my risk-benefit analysis. As everyone should do.
It’s not the healthcare workers I would be contend with in most cases.
“ VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members.”
you have always been open minded on this, just take a little time to read the reports and form your own opinion.Antivaccine activists use a government database on side effects to scare the public
Successful reporting system helps flag real problems but is being twisted in COVID-19 era
No issue with that though process. As long as the data is true and we are honest with ourselves what the potential risk involves. As this played out I tried to take my personal bias out and consulted with my primary care physician, whose only skin in the game is keeping me healthy. Despite being reasonably healthy and in my early 50’s, he didn’t hesitate to recommend the vaccine.
you can repeat that a thousand times but it doesn't change the fact that health care workers HAVE to report COVID vaccine adverse events for all emergency use drugs.
that is the difference here between COVID and just about every other vaccine in VAERS.
as i noted previously, i anticipate the pfizer reports to reduce significantly from this day forth since the requirement with respect to their drug has been dropped with the FDA approval.
I understand what the reports read as. But my view of VAERS, at this moment, is it is being used as a crowd source review of vaccines. Much like Yelp and TripAdvisor are to restaurants and hotels. Hardly scientific imo.
EudraVigilance, the european version of VAERS has similar numbers. the general public can't upload to that but they can view the reports.
European database of suspected adverse drug reaction reports
www.adrreports.eu
Regardless of where the reported incidents are coming from they still need to be investigated to determine the cause. That is the entire purpose of VAERS, to look for any adverse reactions that are caused by the drug.
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