@booker20 I think you need to include more gif responses
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Question for my African American Seminole brothers
- Thread starter Silas33
- Start date
Im a parent and I would love for my son to play for a AA HC, DC, or OC if it happens it happens if it doesn't it doesn't.....but I know that's the market(coaching) my son would love to go in if he doesn't make it to the league...and to have someone of the same skin color mentoring you and showing that's a big positive.......because lets be honest there aren't alot of African American coaches in College or the NFL.....
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I don't think it matters as much as people think. Look at Deion and Odell and their love for Mickey Andrews. Look at Warrick Dunn and his love for Bobby Bowden. People look up to people they trust, admire, and come to love being around them. Look at all our players that love and will forever be loyal to Odell Haggins. It's the heart and soul in people, not the color of their skin.
Some good responses ITT. One of the biggest problems America has with race relations, is that people don't want or like to talk about it. You can't learn anything unless you're willing to have a honest conversation about it.
I’m confused.
To clarify I would have hit the thumbs down button on the post you quoted if it was an option. I just don’t understand your post.
It’s a valid question, and one that I have had internally. I would love to hear the perspective of other Noles on the subject.
Gifs weren't about the race of the person in them... But this thread isn't about any of that, so stop trying to make it that way or it will go away.
The poster I quoted pointed out no black head coaches have won titles, and my response was due to gross underrepresentation they haven’t had near the opportunities to win one as whites have had. And to that point, despite the overwhelming percentage of head coaches being white, only a select few of them have even managed to win titles. The odds simply aren’t high.
For instance, of all the current head coaches in FBS, only 4 or so have won national titles.
I was making a joke about your need to double down with 2 different gif responses.
No need to threaten anything.
Note to Op, and some of our other poster-friends--the expression " I don't care if they are purple, or green" (whatever--often uttered just ahead of a discussion of some race-related issue) doesn't actually work as well as you think in establishing your neutral cred. There actually are no green or purple people ( well, maybe around St. Pat's day), so maybe lose that clause intro.
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Thanks to the men (and women) with thoughtful and insightful post, I learned something. I don't think WT will be successful because of his skin color, but I would love for him to be successful and for that to be a blessing to others with the same skin color. We all like to see ourselves or versions of ourselves in successful, enviable places. I do remember that Kellen Winslow, who son was a high profile national recruit, would not let him sign with a school whose coaching staff did not have a high percentage of AA coaches. He signed with Miami, and had a great career, but I remember seeing a little documentary about his recruitment and it was fascinating, his father wanted to reward and profit men of his heritage for the long term benefit of his people.
I think it will be huge. The difference in Charlie Strong and Willingham are quite different . Coach T is young and can still make reference to Plies and Kodak Black but he also can relate to the players parents and the era they grew up in. Plus let's not forget the elephant in the room. Most Aa players, not all . Don't really have their fathers around , so that works in his favor as well. Overall I think Coach T will be a success and can't wait for the season.
Here's the truth for a lot people, me included. When these coaches came up for consideration, I had no idea what the race, religion, political stance or the background of life experiences each possessed. What I found out, everyone of these candidates are successful and they deserve opportunities to advance their careers. Coach Taggart ( my coach at FSU ) selected these fine individuals to represent our school but more importantly to mentor and develop young men!!!! When Coach Taggart walks into a young mans home, you can damn well understand one thing... your son will become my son and I will make sure his opportunities are not limited to just football. As a parent, that's what Coach Taggart brings to the kitchen table!!!
At FSU, we put the best people in position to win..on the field and off the field, kids and coaches. If you believe in the moral qualities of Coach Taggart, then you believe in the people that follow Coach Taggart. I am a believer and everyone of those coaches will have my respect and admiration for mentoring our student athletes. It's unconditional until proven otherwise.
At FSU, we put the best people in position to win..on the field and off the field, kids and coaches. If you believe in the moral qualities of Coach Taggart, then you believe in the people that follow Coach Taggart. I am a believer and everyone of those coaches will have my respect and admiration for mentoring our student athletes. It's unconditional until proven otherwise.
It will moreso have an effect with African-American parents. There would be a built-in trust because of relatability and similiar experiences. But the kids dont care as much. The kids experience is a hell of a lot different than their parents that grew up in the 1950-1970's. The kids are more inclined to navigate to Willie because he knows who these corny new rappers are....smh.
But yes, it will help attract guys to come play or give us a leg up in recruiting. The downside of it is that it doesnt guarantee success on the field. I fear for coach Taggert and those that support his hiring because when he loses the FIRST game its gonna get ugly. There are going to be folks that come on here and blame Stan Wilcox because he "intentionally" hired an African-American coach. They will cry reverse racism(whatever the hell that is)blah,blah,blah.
Side Note: I sincerely love all my Nole brothers. But please lets stop saying we are "color blind" or that "I dont care if someone is purple or yellow"......it matters because it matters in the world. I appreciate all people and their differences and what makes them unique.
But yes, it will help attract guys to come play or give us a leg up in recruiting. The downside of it is that it doesnt guarantee success on the field. I fear for coach Taggert and those that support his hiring because when he loses the FIRST game its gonna get ugly. There are going to be folks that come on here and blame Stan Wilcox because he "intentionally" hired an African-American coach. They will cry reverse racism(whatever the hell that is)blah,blah,blah.
Side Note: I sincerely love all my Nole brothers. But please lets stop saying we are "color blind" or that "I dont care if someone is purple or yellow"......it matters because it matters in the world. I appreciate all people and their differences and what makes them unique.
I was waiting for Ira to write a column on this. Maybe a good subject for the next Seminole headlines.
But you were almost there. I consider you one of the sharpest people on here. I don’t see color in print. I see ideas . Some excellent some God awful. But I understand why you would rather not suffer the BS.
Did not help Sumlin.... character and a winning product will help anyone.
Actually I'm curious myself and do think it helps.
I don't care if my/our head coach and coaching staff is purple skinned, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I want your take please, thanks
After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight
I’ll respond..... I believe initially there will be an increase in elite AA kids and families entertaining WT and FSU, BUT if he doesn’t win at a high level and probably right out the gate there will start to be complications. While black parents and kids obviously have race in common with WT, there is a perception even with black folk that Black Head Coaches don’t have the ability to compete with Elite White Head Coaches, that’s in security in job and results with the product (Championships and churning out lots of draft picks)and only results showing otherwise will change this. Simply put there has never been an Elite Black Division 1 Head Coach and even if the number of actual Elite Championship Coaches is small they are 100% white. WT will be a good as his results and he doesn’t have a long leash or time to accomplish greatness.
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Lol ! A small percentage is because there is 1 winner for 100 plus teams.
And that has nothing to do with anything but probabilities. A bad example no matter what.
I for one am just ready for these men to get recruiting ... it’s all I got till spring practice... happy to have coach Taggart and looks like he’s putting together quite a solid staff...exciting time to be a Nole! Hope to see us finish the coaching hires and have them announced before the end of the Silent period
This hire is going to go one of two ways as it always does with race and college football. Either FSU will struggle and the moles come out and wonder why a black unqualified coach was hired, or it will be amazing and Taggart will take FSU to another level unseen. Boom or bust to me.
The thing that helps taggart is FSU fans, admin, players, and alumni appear on board and want him to do well. I never rooted for Ty Willingham, Randy Shannon, or Blake cause FSU wasn't involved. But rooted for Strong and Sumlin. It's personality. Taggart has a swag about him that's relatable. He is the black Scott Frost. Scott Frost is the black Taggart. Just a positive energy about them. I'll root for Frost in Lincoln. But Taggart at FSU just takes me to another excitement level.
The thing that helps taggart is FSU fans, admin, players, and alumni appear on board and want him to do well. I never rooted for Ty Willingham, Randy Shannon, or Blake cause FSU wasn't involved. But rooted for Strong and Sumlin. It's personality. Taggart has a swag about him that's relatable. He is the black Scott Frost. Scott Frost is the black Taggart. Just a positive energy about them. I'll root for Frost in Lincoln. But Taggart at FSU just takes me to another excitement level.
Also this FSU staff is very impressive and has very qualified coaches. Frey, Snyder, Barnett, and Guidry just have me impressed. Taggart is like let the Pros handle the other stuff and my O will just run u off the field.
The probability of a black head coach winning a title is much, much lower than that of a white head coach because there are far less black head coaches. That’s the point, which you’ve proven, apparently unwittingly.
Interesting. Personally I believe that WT will be given plenty of opportunity to win consistently. Plus he plays golf and actually likes the fans and boosters .and we know it. If he can win AT ALL he will be beloved by all. JMHO
I’ll add my two sense and a slightly different perspective. I am from Mississippi and attended FSU from 1990 to 1995.
My belief is that ultimately it comes down to winning and genuineness as well as being AA. If he is winning, it opens up more doors. As a player or parent, I am looking at someone who has had to work his way up. As someone previously stated, there are a very small number of AA coaches in college and pro football. In 2016, 53.8% of fbs players were AA, but only 10% of its coaches.
You are looking at a man who worked his way up in an environment that is not balanced, not fair. This is not to say it cannot be navigated, but he did it looking like me. And it is not easy. From a parent’s perspective it is about more than making it to the league. It is about being successful as a man in this world. It is about learning about your strengths and how to relate and be successful with all people.
So the short answer is for some it will make a tremendous difference, for others it will make no difference. So it opens some doors that would not have otherwise been open. For example, look at the current recruiting cycle. He came in at the end of the early signing period and new doors were opened (from the west coast to the east coast).
My belief is that ultimately it comes down to winning and genuineness as well as being AA. If he is winning, it opens up more doors. As a player or parent, I am looking at someone who has had to work his way up. As someone previously stated, there are a very small number of AA coaches in college and pro football. In 2016, 53.8% of fbs players were AA, but only 10% of its coaches.
You are looking at a man who worked his way up in an environment that is not balanced, not fair. This is not to say it cannot be navigated, but he did it looking like me. And it is not easy. From a parent’s perspective it is about more than making it to the league. It is about being successful as a man in this world. It is about learning about your strengths and how to relate and be successful with all people.
So the short answer is for some it will make a tremendous difference, for others it will make no difference. So it opens some doors that would not have otherwise been open. For example, look at the current recruiting cycle. He came in at the end of the early signing period and new doors were opened (from the west coast to the east coast).
Relationships will always play a part in recruiting. I am AA and will say their are some advantages but it goes both ways getting kid from from a predominantly white, Latino, or even Polynesian community it doesn't hurt to have someone that relates. I also know that character is important no matter what color if a coach walks into my living room to recruit one of my boys I don't care about color what does the school offer in education and opportunity to grow as a man.I don't care what color my/our head coach as his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks
After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight
I think this is true.
In some cases, I can see it really helping to have a majority black staff recruiting majority black student athletes. Kids can relate, kids feel comfortable, and kids can get inspired seeing a staff of people that look, talk, and grew up like them.
But I can also see it hurting in some cases. And I think the assumption is I'm talking about white prospects but I'm not, necessarily. I've been around black families that would rather their kid go play for a team of mostly white coaches because they feel the program will be more "structured" and or "professional".
Black-led teams are often associated with being lower class or inferior to white counterparts, and I've seen and heard some black parents say that they want their kids to get "the best" coaching and discipline, or to "get away" from "ghetto" teams, and that led them to putting their son with white coaches.
Now this was at the HS and pee wee level. But if this happened at the lower levels for black parents, I don't think I should doubt that similar feelings exist for college football programs.
I can envision a scenario where a high school kid and his parents are torn between school A, with a majority black staff, and school B, with a majority white staff, and with their likes and dislikes about the schools being about equal, go with a "gut feeling" of trusting that the white coaches have a better chance of making sure their son is taken care of and developed into a pro. I've seen and heard of cases at the lower levels where this happens. Fair? No. But parents generally aren't thinking about being politically correct or fair when their child's future is on the line.
(Just to be clear here, I think the gut feeling is BS. Black coaches have won super bowls and are building big time college football programs that send players to the league right now. Opportunity is why none have ever won a national title. And negative biases have limited the opportunities which only feed the biases.)
And just think about how many of these recruits end up going with gut feelings when they finally decide on a school. Think back to how many kids are undecided on NSD, minutes before they are to announce.
I can truly see some decisions coming down to who they feel more comfortable with, and comfort can truly go a number of ways, from "coach likes the same rap artist that I like and play before a game, so I relate to him" to "coach goes hunting like me and my family, I relate to him". And while neither of those are race specific, black and white people like rap music and go hunting, I bet you still had an image of which race went with each relatability factor.
Ultimately, the in-home visits are always super important, but I do think they are going to take on an even greater importance because biases against black coaches exist out there. Biases for a majority staff of black coaches exist as well.
I have no doubt that Willie is going to do a tremendous job of selling himself and FSU to high school kids and their parents. You can just see in his press conferences that he gets it. He'll be able to walk into a white kids home or a black kids home and represent FSU to the highest caliber.
But it takes more than just a head coach to recruit. It takes a staff to build all of the relationships and build the family atmosphere that eases the conscious of every parent that signs the LOI to send their kid off to college.
Even if someone likes and trusts Willie individually, they might be skeptical of the three or four other black assistants that accompanies him on his in-home visit. A white parent might think "will my son fit in there? Will the culture alienate him?" and a black parent might think "Will my son get the best coaching there? Will the culture be professional?"
(I can't stress enough that I don't agree that there should even be questions like this. I just can't deny that the people who will feel like that are out there, and coach Taggart and his staff will be recruiting their children.)
It's probably not ever going to be spoken out loud or written about in a warchant recruiting article, but as a black man, I'll frankly be surprised if it's never something that coach Taggart and his staff encounters. And then there is the negative recruiting...
Taggart wants to build a family atmosphere. And I believe he is going to do that. But sometimes it seems like people get lost in sentiment and overlook that families aren't homogeneous. There are vastly different personalities, worldviews, socioeconomic statuses all occupying the same space, all a part of the same team called FSU. And I think it's helpful to have a wide variety of staff in place to nurture all of those different backgrounds.
Not just different races either. Different age ranges too. Can't just be an entire staff of young 30-40 year olds, it's good to have some older gentleman with lots of experience.
Coaches born and raised in the south are important, but it helps to have guys with life experience on the east coast, or in the midwest, or on the west coast as well.
It great to have deeply religious coaches but it's also probably helpful to have some coaches that aren't as religious as well.
It's important to have some coaches that yell and curse and are old school 'get after you' coaches that whip your butt into shape and keep you on your toes, but it's probably also good to have some quieter, 'players coaches' types as well. Guys that will calmly talk to you instead of screaming at you.
My point is that is why diversity matters. Nick Saban isn't doing it at Alabama by himself. A bunch of those kids might not relate to Saban. But they relate to someone on that staff. He has a great mix of personalities, races, and backgrounds making up his staff, convincing a whole lot of people from a whole lot of different places to come to Alabama.
I'm rambling but my point is it isn't ALL x's and o's. Maybe in the NFL where everyone is a professional making at least six figures but not in college football.
Not when a huge part of the job is recruiting players and families.
Not when you are expected to become a surrogate parent for a class of teenagers every year, and it's your job to keep them out of trouble, discipline them, and keep them motivated on school and football.
At this point it's more than can you coach football, it's can you and your staff manage 85+ different college students with various backgrounds and keep them happy as a "family." Can you get them all to buy in?
And in the end I'm glad we have a white coach on both sides of the ball, not because of diversity for diversities sake, or because a black coach can't do the job, but because having a well rounded staff of different backgrounds is practical in the pursuit of the above paragraph.
To be totally clear here. I'm not trying to imply with this post that race will be the deciding factor with recruits, or will be an issue in the majority of cases. Taggart is a good recruiter and Florida State is an amazing program to recruit for, so that will take care of itself the majority of the time.
I'm just saying I don't believe society is at a place where the racial makeup of a majority black staff recruiting mostly southern players won't matter at all. And even if it's 1%, that's still a percentage worth having the conversation about. And that the "I don't care if they are white, black, green, or purple" sentiment isn't shared widely enough to be considered a useful counter to having the conversation.
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I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks
After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight
I’ve gone on record numerous times it will mean a lot for a black head coach to go into parents of living rooms of single parent mothers and tell those moms I am going to look after him like my own son. I’m not saying white coaches cannot do this. My favorite coach ever was white.
However, it’s just some things another black man can relate to another black male about. It’s hard to explain but until you see the results people can tell you that you can be whatever you want to be in life. Now they actually get to see it if that makes sense.
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I don't think you should be stereotyping all African Americans into thinking it matters. Does it to some? Sure. Does it to others? No. Saban will still get his and he isn't AA.
