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Question for my African American Seminole brothers

I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks

After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight :)
I think it’s very meaningful for many of these kids who don’t have male role models that are positive or have been raised by mainly women. This is unfortunately very common in the inner city where I’m from and work in. It’s nice to see someone like you in a position of power because it gives kids hope that they can make it in the world where most of the things they know are negative and discouraging. Willie will have an easier time connecting with kids as a result but if he doesn’t win none of this will matter. I know many have said they don’t care what color their coach is but I guarantee in black communities it’s a huge deal because it hasn’t happened before and is similar to when our last POTUS was elected. There was a great sense of pride whether you like it or not that’s just the facts. When you are not use to seeing something it makes it that much more exciting, meaningful and special. But he has to WIN and we know he won’t get much understanding if he doesn’t. I played football, baseball and basketball in high school and just football and baseball in college. I also had my father in the home and 30 years ago things were much different. In all my sports career I had one black position coach in college for football at WR. We were from two different cities but he understood me being far away from home in a hick town and he was the one I went to when I was going through stuff. He was the coach who I stayed in contact with years after college. It does make a difference. My two cents.
 
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I can picture the mods looking at this thread nervously hitting F5.
It's a valid topic. We shouldn't shy away from it just because we live in such a hyper sensitive, PC society.

That said, I've noticed most of our players are AA and thought to myself that a young, energetic, AA coach can probably relate to these kids really well. Not sure why that's so taboo to say or think. I think Willie is going to be absolutely amazing on the recruiting trail!
 
It's a valid topic. We shouldn't shy away from it just because we live in such a hyper sensitive, PC society.

That said, I've noticed most of our players are AA and thought to myself that a young, energetic, AA coach can probably relate to these kids really well. Not sure why that's so taboo to say or think. I think Willie is going to be absolutely amazing on the recruiting trail!

100% agree, didn’t mean to infer otherwise. But in this forum, with anonymous people hiding behind a keyboard, it can go downhill quickly. Politics, race, religion are typically topics that don’t do well on message boards, and threads get locked/deleted over it all the time.
 
"Where all the white women at?"

Look at Randy Shannon's first class at Miami and there is your answer. There is no question that this staff is going to STRONGLY appeal to a very large number of black recruits for a lot of reasons.

However, all that stuff is temporary, nothing will ever matter as much as winning. Willie will get some terrifically talented kids in his first full class just like Jimbo did. From there, he has to win and he has to put kids in the league. But if he can win at a clip similar to Jimbo and put kids in the league at the rate Jimbo did, then look the heck out, because he'll stockpile talent at a level that exceeds anything seen in Tally previously.
 
I've been wanting to write a long post about race, recruiting the south, and the racial makeup of the staff for awhile now but I haven't because I'm afraid whatever thread I post it in will be closed or deleted as soon as I make the post.

What I want to write isn't about racism, everyone always thinks any topic about race is necessarily about discrimination, but sometimes it's just about the reality of a situation - like how the majority of the black players at FSU hang around each other, and the majority of the white players at FSU hang around each other. Crossover sure, but you can clearly see how some kids more easily relate to others. I just wanted to write about in what areas might race play any role with having a predominately black staff. I think it's a conversation worth having in a world where race matters, even if you strive to be "color blind" and or pretend it doesn't exist.

But every time I'm like "so is this the thread where a level headed discussion can take place?" I find that it isn't, and the thread is gone.

Reading the replies so far, doesn't look like this will be the one either. So I guess I'll save my energy.

Hey Black, regardless of what happens to this thread, just wanted to say kudos because that was so damn well written, in terms of clearly communicating what you're trying to communicate. Can feel your frustration. And yeh, it is super frustrating to try to discuss anything substantive on these boards, especially if the subject matter could be (mis)construed as "controversial" or inappropriate by people who just can't tolerate any nuance on a sports message board. Hope this one survives and is given at least some of the respect it deserves.

Edit: Coming back to add this now that I've read through the thread... am relieved to see how much respect this thread has gotten -- the OP did a good job of introducing it and almost all responders have kept it on the rails. Was pessimistic when I first clicked on it since every other thread with any hint of race-related subject matter has ended up locked. Kudos to all, hopefully this one will survive.
 
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So are François' relatives considered to be AH....as in African Haitian?
So we'v got AAs and an AH on the team.
I once vacationed in jolly Ole England and refered to a black guy in the pub as an AA...he was as confused as I was.
All kidding aside, I understand the OPs point.
Randy Shannon didn' exactly win titles because of the color of his skin.
Neither will Willie. He'll win because of recruiting (ask saban) and because he and his staff will be above average coaches (again see saban's staff.)
 
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I'll bite. It'll help if he wins and wins big. He is the anamoly by being a Afro American coach so he will be easily recognizable but it will hurt in that he is easily recognizable. Just because he is black doesn't mean recruits will choose him. Think Charlie Strong or Ty Willingham. Nice hires but they didn't work. Some think they didn't have enough time though. Whereas Taggart is an offensive guy with a dynamic personality. If he was white he'd still be a great choice so to speak. Bottom line is this is a home run hire. Getting an offensive HC for FSU was key. Getting a new d cord was key. Getting a fresh approach was key.

Now for the answer you are looking for. Yes it will help with mothers and fathers to have a young dynamic black HC recruit their children, and yes it will be a big hindrance being a young black unproven HC if he doesn't succeed. Make no mistake it comes down to wins and losses here. If Taggart wins big we can only imagine the positives. If he struggles on th field it will turn ugly quickly. Many are on the anti Jimbo bandwagon now, but he is a hell of a coach and will win big at ATM. He's just that good. So Taggart will be directly compared to an active coach whereas most coaches in this situation won't be. Please believe JImbo will anti recruit FSU all day every day and Taggart will need to head that off to be successful.



My guess is Taggrt does really really well. Also note he brought in more white coaches. Dude ain't dumb.
I think you absolutely nailed it, man. Except the potential success of Jimbo at Tamu. I think that's going to be a disaster, and he'll be fired in 4 years while Willie Swaggart is steadily competing for natties! Woooo!!
 
I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks

After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight :)
Don’t care.... W’s and L’s....Progressive Program...Bottom Line
 
I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks

After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight :)
We used to have a black basketball coach that couldn’t recruit well at all.
Put one recruit to sleep if that rumor was correct. I think personality and mentoring ability means more in recruiting. A history of success is another. Luckily Taggert has all. I’m not black, just pointing out what I see.
 
I think this is true.

In some cases, I can see it really helping to have a majority black staff recruiting majority black student athletes. Kids can relate, kids feel comfortable, and kids can get inspired seeing a staff of people that look, talk, and grew up like them.

But I can also see it hurting in some cases. And I think the assumption is I'm talking about white prospects but I'm not, necessarily. I've been around black families that would rather their kid go play for a team of mostly white coaches because they feel the program will be more "structured" and or "professional".

Black-led teams are often associated with being lower class or inferior to white counterparts, and I've seen and heard some black parents say that they want their kids to get "the best" coaching and discipline, or to "get away" from "ghetto" teams, and that led them to putting their son with white coaches.

Now this was at the HS and pee wee level. But if this happened at the lower levels for black parents, I don't think I should doubt that similar feelings exist for college football programs.

I can envision a scenario where a high school kid and his parents are torn between school A, with a majority black staff, and school B, with a majority white staff, and with their likes and dislikes about the schools being about equal, go with a "gut feeling" of trusting that the white coaches have a better chance of making sure their son is taking care of and developed into a pro. I've seen and heard of cases at the lower levels where this happens. Fair? No. But parents generally aren't thinking about being politically correct or fair when their child's future is on the line.

(Just to be clear here, I think the gut feeling is BS. Black coaches have won super bowls and are building big time programs in college right now. Opportunity is why none have ever won a national title. And negative biases have limited the opportunities which only feed the biases.)

And just think about how many of these recruits end up going with gut feelings when they finally decide on a school. Think back to how many kids are undecided on NSD, minutes before they are to announce.

I can truly see some decisions coming down to who they feel more comfortable with, and comfort can truly go a number of ways, from "coach likes the same rap artist that I like and play before a game, so I relate to him" to "coach goes hunting like me and my family, I relate to him". And while neither of those are race specific, black and white people like rap music and go hunting, I bet you still had an image of which race went with each relatability factor.

Ultimately, the in-home visits are always super important, but I do think they are going to take on an even greater importance because biases against black coaches exist out there. Biases for a majority staff of black coaches exist as well.

I have no doubt that Willie is going to do a tremendous job of selling himself and FSU to high school kids and their parents. You can just see in his press conferences that he gets it. He'll be able to walk into a white kids home or a black kids home and represent FSU to the highest caliber.

But it takes more than just a head coach to recruit. It takes a staff to build all of the relationships and build the family atmosphere that eases the conscious of every parent that signs the LOI to send their kid off to college.

Even if someone likes and trusts Willie individually, they might be skeptical of the three or four other black assistants that accompanies him on his in-home visit. A white parent might think "will my son fit in there? Will the culture alienate him?" and a black parent might think "Will my son get the best coaching there? Will the culture be professional?"

It's probably not ever going to be spoken out loud or written about in a warchant recruiting article, but as a black man, I'll frankly be surprised if it's never something that coach Taggart and his staff encounters. And then there is the negative recruiting...

Taggart wants to build a family atmosphere. And I believe he is going to do that. But sometimes it seems like people get lost in sentiment and overlook that families aren't homogeneous. There are vastly different personalities, worldviews, socioeconomic statuses all occupying the same space, all a part of the same team called FSU. And I think it's helpful to have a wide variety of staff in place to nurture all of those different backgrounds.

Not just different races either. Different age ranges too. Can't just be an entire staff of young 30-40 year olds, it's good to have some older gentleman with lots of experience.

Coaches born and raised in the south are important, but it helps to have guys with life experience on the east coast, or in the midwest, or on the west coast as well.

It great to have deeply religious coaches but it's also probably helpful to have some coaches that aren't as religious as well.

It's important to have some coaches that yell and curse and are old school 'get after you' coaches that whip your butt into shape and keep you on your toes, but it's probably also good to have some quieter, 'players coaches' types as well. Guys that will calmly talk to you instead of screaming at you.




My point is that is why diversity matters. Nick Saban isn't doing it at Alabama by himself. A bunch of those kids might not relate to Saban. But they relate to someone on that staff. He has a great mix of personalities, races, and backgrounds making up his staff, convincing a whole lot of people from a whole lot of different places to come to Alabama.

I'm rambling but my point is it isn't ALL x's and o's. Maybe in the NFL where everyone is a professional making six figures but not in college football. Not when a huge part of the job is recruiting players and families. Not when you are expected to become a surrogate parent for a class of teenagers every year, and it's your job to keep them out of trouble, discipline them, and keep them motivated on school and football. At this point it's more than can you coach football, it's can you and your staff manage 85+ different college students with various backgrounds and keep them happy as a "family." Can you get them all to buy in?

And in the end I'm glad we have a white coach on both sides of the ball, not because of diversity for diversities sake, or because a black coach can't do the job, but because having a well rounded staff of different backgrounds is practical in the pursuit of the above paragraph.

To be totally clear here. I'm not trying to imply with this post that race will be the deciding factor with recruits, or will be an issue in the majority of cases. Taggart is a good recruiter and Florida State is an amazing program to recruit for, so that will take care of itself the majority of the time.

I'm just saying I don't believe society is at a place where the racial makeup of a majority black staff recruiting mostly southern players won't matter at all. And even if it's 1%, that's still a percentage worth having the conversation about. And that the "I don't care if they are white, black, green, or purple" sentiment isn't shared widely enough to be considered a useful counter to having the conversation.
My brother and I had this same conversation. We both feared the potential lack of professionalism,structure and diversity would destroy this staff.
Awesome post BLACK
 
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I think this is true.

In some cases, I can see it really helping to have a majority black staff recruiting majority black student athletes. Kids can relate, kids feel comfortable, and kids can get inspired seeing a staff of people that look, talk, and grew up like them.

But I can also see it hurting in some cases. And I think the assumption is I'm talking about white prospects but I'm not, necessarily. I've been around black families that would rather their kid go play for a team of mostly white coaches because they feel the program will be more "structured" and or "professional".

Black-led teams are often associated with being lower class or inferior to white counterparts, and I've seen and heard some black parents say that they want their kids to get "the best" coaching and discipline, or to "get away" from "ghetto" teams, and that led them to putting their son with white coaches.

Now this was at the HS and pee wee level. But if this happened at the lower levels for black parents, I don't think I should doubt that similar feelings exist for college football programs.

I can envision a scenario where a high school kid and his parents are torn between school A, with a majority black staff, and school B, with a majority white staff, and with their likes and dislikes about the schools being about equal, go with a "gut feeling" of trusting that the white coaches have a better chance of making sure their son is taking care of and developed into a pro. I've seen and heard of cases at the lower levels where this happens. Fair? No. But parents generally aren't thinking about being politically correct or fair when their child's future is on the line.

(Just to be clear here, I think the gut feeling is BS. Black coaches have won super bowls and are building big time programs in college right now. Opportunity is why none have ever won a national title. And negative biases have limited the opportunities which only feed the biases.)

And just think about how many of these recruits end up going with gut feelings when they finally decide on a school. Think back to how many kids are undecided on NSD, minutes before they are to announce.

I can truly see some decisions coming down to who they feel more comfortable with, and comfort can truly go a number of ways, from "coach likes the same rap artist that I like and play before a game, so I relate to him" to "coach goes hunting like me and my family, I relate to him". And while neither of those are race specific, black and white people like rap music and go hunting, I bet you still had an image of which race went with each relatability factor.

Ultimately, the in-home visits are always super important, but I do think they are going to take on an even greater importance because biases against black coaches exist out there. Biases for a majority staff of black coaches exist as well.

I have no doubt that Willie is going to do a tremendous job of selling himself and FSU to high school kids and their parents. You can just see in his press conferences that he gets it. He'll be able to walk into a white kids home or a black kids home and represent FSU to the highest caliber.

But it takes more than just a head coach to recruit. It takes a staff to build all of the relationships and build the family atmosphere that eases the conscious of every parent that signs the LOI to send their kid off to college.

Even if someone likes and trusts Willie individually, they might be skeptical of the three or four other black assistants that accompanies him on his in-home visit. A white parent might think "will my son fit in there? Will the culture alienate him?" and a black parent might think "Will my son get the best coaching there? Will the culture be professional?"

It's probably not ever going to be spoken out loud or written about in a warchant recruiting article, but as a black man, I'll frankly be surprised if it's never something that coach Taggart and his staff encounters. And then there is the negative recruiting...

Taggart wants to build a family atmosphere. And I believe he is going to do that. But sometimes it seems like people get lost in sentiment and overlook that families aren't homogeneous. There are vastly different personalities, worldviews, socioeconomic statuses all occupying the same space, all a part of the same team called FSU. And I think it's helpful to have a wide variety of staff in place to nurture all of those different backgrounds.

Not just different races either. Different age ranges too. Can't just be an entire staff of young 30-40 year olds, it's good to have some older gentleman with lots of experience.

Coaches born and raised in the south are important, but it helps to have guys with life experience on the east coast, or in the midwest, or on the west coast as well.

It great to have deeply religious coaches but it's also probably helpful to have some coaches that aren't as religious as well.

It's important to have some coaches that yell and curse and are old school 'get after you' coaches that whip your butt into shape and keep you on your toes, but it's probably also good to have some quieter, 'players coaches' types as well. Guys that will calmly talk to you instead of screaming at you.




My point is that is why diversity matters. Nick Saban isn't doing it at Alabama by himself. A bunch of those kids might not relate to Saban. But they relate to someone on that staff. He has a great mix of personalities, races, and backgrounds making up his staff, convincing a whole lot of people from a whole lot of different places to come to Alabama.

I'm rambling but my point is it isn't ALL x's and o's. Maybe in the NFL where everyone is a professional making six figures but not in college football. Not when a huge part of the job is recruiting players and families. Not when you are expected to become a surrogate parent for a class of teenagers every year, and it's your job to keep them out of trouble, discipline them, and keep them motivated on school and football. At this point it's more than can you coach football, it's can you and your staff manage 85+ different college students with various backgrounds and keep them happy as a "family." Can you get them all to buy in?

And in the end I'm glad we have a white coach on both sides of the ball, not because of diversity for diversities sake, or because a black coach can't do the job, but because having a well rounded staff of different backgrounds is practical in the pursuit of the above paragraph.

To be totally clear here. I'm not trying to imply with this post that race will be the deciding factor with recruits, or will be an issue in the majority of cases. Taggart is a good recruiter and Florida State is an amazing program to recruit for, so that will take care of itself the majority of the time.

I'm just saying I don't believe society is at a place where the racial makeup of a majority black staff recruiting mostly southern players won't matter at all. And even if it's 1%, that's still a percentage worth having the conversation about. And that the "I don't care if they are white, black, green, or purple" sentiment isn't shared widely enough to be considered a useful counter to having the conversation.

Black -- ok, maybe I should have saved my kudos on your initial post and waited til I got through the thread to this one, so I could just write one response, but damn... maybe the best written post on WC ever and should be pinned to the top.

IMHO, this 100% captures the reality of the situation, and explains it perfectly. I'm a white dude, but feel confident from living among, working and interacting with many non-whites, and listening to what they've shared, observing how they're still treated and regarded by many members of our majority white society, the role models they see around them, etc., that your write-up covers all the different shades of gray involved here.

Even if WT's diverse staff provides even a tiny advantage or facilitates a toe in the door, that's a good thing.

And to the extent that WT's tenure at FSU serves as any degree of social experiment, no matter how intentional or unintentional, I will be proud as an FSU alum that we contributed to the national discourse and hopefully progress. After all, FSU is an institution of higher learning with a football team, not vice versa, no matter how passionate we all are about FSU sports.

Winning several more NCs will be icing on the cake.
Thanks for your posts.
Go 'Noles!
 
It always helps to be able to relate to the young men you are recruiting and coaching no matter how that connection is made. At the end of the day MOST of the kids and their parents do not really care about race or any other factor as long as there is a real connection and the coach proves he can help and cares.
 
Lol ! A small percentage is because there is 1 winner for 100 plus teams.
And that has nothing to do with anything but probabilities. A bad example no matter what.
This is why we need to talk about this stuff, this is actually a great example you just don't get it. What the op is saying is, how many white coaches are there, at least a 100, why are there only 4 coaches that have won titles, who are actively coaching? Point is a black coach will get scrutinized for not winning a title because no black coach ever has, but the small percentage of black coaches gives black coaches fewer chances. On the other hand why haven't those other 96 white coaches won a title?

If you randomly roll two dice numerous amounts of times you are more likely to roll a 6, 8, or 7 more than any other number because there's three ways to roll each number (6,7,8) when there's only two ways to roll all other numbers. Ok lets hear the sarcastic disrespect now.
 
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It's a valid topic. We shouldn't shy away from it just because we live in such a hyper sensitive, PC society.

That said, I've noticed most of our players are AA and thought to myself that a young, energetic, AA coach can probably relate to these kids really well. Not sure why that's so taboo to say or think. I think Willie is going to be absolutely amazing on the recruiting trail!
Especially since Jimbo was a straight lame, I'll never forget about a few years ago one of the players was jumping up and down hugging Jimbo and Jimbo looked at him like he was crazy.
 
Didn’t know what to expect as I worked through this post.. shout out to @Brandon.C.Murray and @-Black . Solid posts. I am AA, former athlete that was recruited and it mattered to me and my family for at least my position coach.

Net is, it will matter to most initially but it won’t matter if we don’t win.

As many others have said it comes down to the fact that a man of any race can generally relate to many basic things with another man from that same race.. no difference here.

Agree with the points about a perceived lack of professionalism as I had that same conversation with others. Actually had conversations with quotes like “The staff can’t be too black because the fan base will turn quick unless he wins big in 2 years”. If we would’ve gotten Dugans and TBuck then you were looking at a 70% AA staff AND an AA HC.. Whoa! 2018 indeed...

I think we got the right man for the job regardless of race. We need to win and win big soon so that if nothing else the opportunity that Coach Taggart has will become a chance for more AA coaches to get opportunities (the biggest word in the entire thread) in major college football (I’m friends with quite a few Florida and Georgia State Champion Coaches who are AA) based on their merit.
 
Even if someone likes and trusts Willie individually, they might be skeptical of the three or four other black assistants that accompanies him on his in-home visit. A white parent might think "will my son fit in there? Will the culture alienate him?" and a black parent might think "Will my son get the best coaching there? Will the culture be professional?"

I know your post wasn't about racism per say, but I couldn't help but think about the way racism is so built into the fabric of our society, that these are some of the questions that people will ask internally.

WT is not the first power5 AA coach so there are some observations that can be made from previous AA coach experiences. I could be wrong (haven't done hardcore research) but it seems that AS coaches have to win more than a white counterpart in order to keep their job. Willingham at ND got cut way too soon. A white coach after him had a worse record in the same amount of time and was able to stay around. I don't think Randy Shannon was a good HC, but I wonder if he was white would Miami have kept him longer.
 
I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks

After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight :)
Love your question and I wanted to talk about this before but was waiting for the dust to clear. When I say this is going to change the landscape for power 5 coaching that is an understatement. Most AA football players from the inner city play for AA coaches. You listen or see what who recruits say they love on staffs it’s usually a AA coach. So yes this will translate in getting players. It also resonates with parents also. But i will say if coach t is successful at Fsu then you will see power 5 coaches eyes open about who they hire next. There is a lot of pressure on coach t as his success will drive opportunities for more AA coaches to become head coaches. I’m excited for him and look forward to what the future brings.

Let me say this also, this will also have an impact on boosters as well in a good way. FSU has always had a large number of AA going to school there and trust me they are going to be willing to open their pocket books a little more as they did for Bobby.
 
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Black -- ok, maybe I should have saved my kudos on your initial post and waited til I got through the thread to this one, so I could just write one response, but damn... maybe the best written post on WC ever and should be pinned to the top.

IMHO, this 100% captures the reality of the situation, and explains it perfectly. I'm a white dude, but feel confident from living among, working and interacting with many non-whites, and listening to what they've shared, observing how they're still treated and regarded by many members of our majority white society, the role models they see around them, etc., that your write-up covers all the different shades of gray involved here.

Even if WT's diverse staff provides even a tiny advantage or facilitates a toe in the door, that's a good thing.

And to the extent that WT's tenure at FSU serves as any degree of social experiment, no matter how intentional or unintentional, I will be proud as an FSU alum that we contributed to the national discourse and hopefully progress. After all, FSU is an institution of higher learning with a football team, not vice versa, no matter how passionate we all are about FSU sports.

Winning several more NCs will be icing on the cake.
Thanks for your posts.
Go 'Noles!
Perspectives like your are needed my Nole brother. Thank you for being willing to dialogue and having a mind opened to understanding someone that is different than you. Much Respect to you.
 
It matters but first, any Coach has to be a proven winner. Secondly, he has to be a positive person and seen as a role model that the Student Athlete can relate too. Third, the Administration and Support Staff has to have the same or very similar qualities and give him the support and tools to use. I personally think that with Coach Taggart, if he’s giving the same time/privileges as JF, we will not have to look for another Coach for twenty years. You can seen his passion and genuiness; that he’s where he wants to be and he’s landed his dream job. This is just my opinion. Go Noles
Amen. I hope everything you've written happens too.
 
Well, I'll say this. It didn't matter a tinkers damn on the early signing period. We had some black recruits that we hoped might sign, and some that we were reasonably sure would sign and they didn't. If anybody thought they would sign/switch just because Coach Willie was black, they must have been sorely disappointed.

Plus, I don't see a bunch of players jumping like frogs to commit to us now and 99% of them are black. Not saying it won't matter in some cases, it will, but it will be rare. Relationships will be the difference, always has been, always will be.

Trust is the key. Does a black player and his parents trust a white coach and does a white kid trust a black coach? Just as important, if not more so, will a black player and his parents trust the black coaches on the staff, including the head coach. Just because he is black doesn't make him the end all to them.

Overriding all that is if a player doesn't trust the coaches is it because of his skin color or is it because they view him as a lying pos. I don't believe the color will matter in most cases, the majority of cases, if you will.

Will their be a certain comfort level in these cases- black to black, white to white? You bet, it's human nature. But, when it comes to making the most important decision of their young lives I'm not buying into the color thing. They are going to go where they feel comfy, where they trust, and where they feel they can advance on the field and in life. jmho
 
I know your post wasn't about racism per say, but I couldn't help but think about the way racism is so built into the fabric of our society, that these are some of the questions that people will ask internally.

WT is not the first power5 AA coach so there are some observations that can be made from previous AA coach experiences. I could be wrong (haven't done hardcore research) but it seems that AS coaches have to win more than a white counterpart in order to keep their job. Willingham at ND got cut way too soon. A white coach after him had a worse record in the same amount of time and was able to stay around. I don't think Randy Shannon was a good HC, but I wonder if he was white would Miami have kept him longer.

Yeah, the funny thing about perceived "professionalism" is that Jimbo was very unprofessional at times. Cursing out fans, asking for a fight, the way he talked with media, the way screamed at players, grabbed their facemasks, and reportedly how he handled non-football staff at the Moore. And we can't forget some of the sideline meltdowns he has had (Virginia 2011 comes to mind) or some of the off-the-field situations with his assistants and staff. Him being hard to work for is often phrased as him being "Saban-like" and the criticism stops there, but if Taggart did any of that stuff at Oregon, and was hard to work for, we'd be hearing nonstop about how unprofessional he is.

Taggart and his staff would have to do some crazy crap for them to actually display less professionalism than Jimbo and his staff.
 
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Having these discussions makes all of us and more importantly our school look like immature idiots. WT is a first rate coach and I'm glad he's here!
 
Yeah, the funny thing about perceived "professionalism" is that Jimbo was very unprofessional at times. Cursing out fans, asking for a fight, the way he talked with media, and reportedly how he handled non-football staff at the Moore. And we can't forget some of the sideline meltdowns he has had (Virginia 2011 comes to mind) or some of the off-the-field situations with his assistants and staff. If Taggart did any of that stuff at Oregon, we'd be hearing nonstop about how unprofessional he is.

Taggart and his staff would have to do some crazy crap for them to actually display less professionalism than Jimbo and his staff.

You got a link to the Virginia thing? I can’t recall for some reason.
 
Having these discussions makes all of us and more importantly our school look like immature idiots. WT is a first rate coach and I'm glad he's here!

Regarding your intro... exactly the opposite man. This is the most mature, intelligent, honest, meaningful thread I've ever seen on Warchant.
But I agree that WT is a first rate coach and super glad he's here too!
 
I don't care what color my/our head coach or his staff's skin is, as long as he wins and treats the players well. My question is this, given that college football is dominated by (est) 80% AA, and that our head coach and staff is predominantly AA. Does that, will that translate into anything meaningful in attracting these young AA players to FSU???? I think it will but what do I know, I'm not AA. In today's climate is it meaningful to play for a mentor who shares your upbringing, experiences and skin color? Would love your take, color rarely matters unless you are a minority and then it matters a great deal, usually. I am thrilled to belong to a University who has put a minority in a leadership position and set him up to succeed, its good for everyone. I want your take please, thanks

After all the smart asses make fun of the question, maybe we could get some insight :)
Love your question. Insightful and really genuine.
 
Of course it’ll help. Will it help enough to win championships no. Could it swing any given player just because taggart is AA? More than likely. Bottom line have good players to surround other good players with. A trusting staff that parents like and can level with. Last but not least a solid bagman that gets around like Santa. That’s the key. Black or white, every coach that is a “good recruiter” has a solid bagman. that’s what it’s all about. No I’m not black, think taggart was a hell of a hire regardless of skin color. Can’t wait for the upcoming season.
 
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I think this is true.

In some cases, I can see it really helping to have a majority black staff recruiting majority black student athletes. Kids can relate, kids feel comfortable, and kids can get inspired seeing a staff of people that look, talk, and grew up like them.

But I can also see it hurting in some cases. And I think the assumption is I'm talking about white prospects but I'm not, necessarily. I've been around black families that would rather their kid go play for a team of mostly white coaches because they feel the program will be more "structured" and or "professional".

Black-led teams are often associated with being lower class or inferior to white counterparts, and I've seen and heard some black parents say that they want their kids to get "the best" coaching and discipline, or to "get away" from "ghetto" teams, and that led them to putting their son with white coaches.

Now this was at the HS and pee wee level. But if this happened at the lower levels for black parents, I don't think I should doubt that similar feelings exist for college football programs.

I can envision a scenario where a high school kid and his parents are torn between school A, with a majority black staff, and school B, with a majority white staff, and with their likes and dislikes about the schools being about equal, go with a "gut feeling" of trusting that the white coaches have a better chance of making sure their son is taken care of and developed into a pro. I've seen and heard of cases at the lower levels where this happens. Fair? No. But parents generally aren't thinking about being politically correct or fair when their child's future is on the line.

(Just to be clear here, I think the gut feeling is BS. Black coaches have won super bowls and are building big time college football programs that send players to the league right now. Opportunity is why none have ever won a national title. And negative biases have limited the opportunities which only feed the biases.)

And just think about how many of these recruits end up going with gut feelings when they finally decide on a school. Think back to how many kids are undecided on NSD, minutes before they are to announce.

I can truly see some decisions coming down to who they feel more comfortable with, and comfort can truly go a number of ways, from "coach likes the same rap artist that I like and play before a game, so I relate to him" to "coach goes hunting like me and my family, I relate to him". And while neither of those are race specific, black and white people like rap music and go hunting, I bet you still had an image of which race went with each relatability factor.

Ultimately, the in-home visits are always super important, but I do think they are going to take on an even greater importance because biases against black coaches exist out there. Biases for a majority staff of black coaches exist as well.

I have no doubt that Willie is going to do a tremendous job of selling himself and FSU to high school kids and their parents. You can just see in his press conferences that he gets it. He'll be able to walk into a white kids home or a black kids home and represent FSU to the highest caliber.

But it takes more than just a head coach to recruit. It takes a staff to build all of the relationships and build the family atmosphere that eases the conscious of every parent that signs the LOI to send their kid off to college.

Even if someone likes and trusts Willie individually, they might be skeptical of the three or four other black assistants that accompanies him on his in-home visit. A white parent might think "will my son fit in there? Will the culture alienate him?" and a black parent might think "Will my son get the best coaching there? Will the culture be professional?"

(I can't stress enough that I don't agree that there should even be questions like this. I just can't deny that the people who will feel like that are out there, and coach Taggart and his staff will be recruiting their children.)

It's probably not ever going to be spoken out loud or written about in a warchant recruiting article, but as a black man, I'll frankly be surprised if it's never something that coach Taggart and his staff encounters. And then there is the negative recruiting...

Taggart wants to build a family atmosphere. And I believe he is going to do that. But sometimes it seems like people get lost in sentiment and overlook that families aren't homogeneous. There are vastly different personalities, worldviews, socioeconomic statuses all occupying the same space, all a part of the same team called FSU. And I think it's helpful to have a wide variety of staff in place to nurture all of those different backgrounds.

Not just different races either. Different age ranges too. Can't just be an entire staff of young 30-40 year olds, it's good to have some older gentleman with lots of experience.

Coaches born and raised in the south are important, but it helps to have guys with life experience on the east coast, or in the midwest, or on the west coast as well.

It great to have deeply religious coaches but it's also probably helpful to have some coaches that aren't as religious as well.

It's important to have some coaches that yell and curse and are old school 'get after you' coaches that whip your butt into shape and keep you on your toes, but it's probably also good to have some quieter, 'players coaches' types as well. Guys that will calmly talk to you instead of screaming at you.



My point is that is why diversity matters. Nick Saban isn't doing it at Alabama by himself. A bunch of those kids might not relate to Saban. But they relate to someone on that staff. He has a great mix of personalities, races, and backgrounds making up his staff, convincing a whole lot of people from a whole lot of different places to come to Alabama.

I'm rambling but my point is it isn't ALL x's and o's. Maybe in the NFL where everyone is a professional making at least six figures but not in college football.

Not when a huge part of the job is recruiting players and families.

Not when you are expected to become a surrogate parent for a class of teenagers every year, and it's your job to keep them out of trouble, discipline them, and keep them motivated on school and football.

At this point it's more than can you coach football, it's can you and your staff manage 85+ different college students with various backgrounds and keep them happy as a "family." Can you get them all to buy in?

And in the end I'm glad we have a white coach on both sides of the ball, not because of diversity for diversities sake, or because a black coach can't do the job, but because having a well rounded staff of different backgrounds is practical in the pursuit of the above paragraph.

To be totally clear here. I'm not trying to imply with this post that race will be the deciding factor with recruits, or will be an issue in the majority of cases. Taggart is a good recruiter and Florida State is an amazing program to recruit for, so that will take care of itself the majority of the time.

I'm just saying I don't believe society is at a place where the racial makeup of a majority black staff recruiting mostly southern players won't matter at all. And even if it's 1%, that's still a percentage worth having the conversation about. And that the "I don't care if they are white, black, green, or purple" sentiment isn't shared widely enough to be considered a useful counter to having the conversation.
Very good post Black. You've framed the challenges, similarities, differences and opportunities we have before us. I'm hoping Willie and this team win big time at FSU. Yes, NC big. By doing that, their dreams will have a chance to become a reality. But if they don't, I still will be very glad he was given the opportunity to coach at his dream school. Not many people get that chance in life. It's very special.
 
Take a look at the # of Responses and Views this thread has racked up in 4+ hours... says a lot about how relevant and important the subject matter is and the interest level of a whole bunch of Noles in at least following along. Nicely done OP! You successfully waded into a minefield here and everybody survived and is probably better off for it.
 
Take a look at the # of Responses and Views this thread has racked up in 4+ hours... says a lot about how relevant and important the subject matter is and the interest level of a whole bunch of Noles in at least following along. Nicely done OP! You successfully waded into a minefield here and everybody survived and is probably better off for it.

Amen. Only way it’s ever going to get better is having the hard discussions like adults. I always beg and plead during these for mods not to lock em.
 
Having these discussions makes all of us and more importantly our school look like immature idiots. WT is a first rate coach and I'm glad he's here!
Not having this discussion is typical old America. Never wanting to talk about something that's as prevalent as the oxygen in the air. Luckily the older generation is dying off and we can progress. That sounds bad to talk about people dying away but you'll never change those people so hopefully they'll just move on to heaven.
 
This is why we need to talk about this stuff, this is actually a great example you just don't get it. What the op is saying is, how many white coaches are there, at least a 100, why are there only 4 coaches that have won titles, who are actively coaching? Point is a black coach will get scrutinized for not winning a title because no black coach ever has, but the small percentage of black coaches gives black coaches fewer chances. On the other hand why haven't those other 96 white coaches won a title?

If you randomly roll two dice numerous amounts of times you are more likely to roll a 6, 8, or 7 more than any other number because there's three ways to roll each number (6,7,8) when there's only two ways to roll all other numbers. Ok lets hear the sarcastic disrespect now.
I do get it. But it’s statistically such a bad example to use. I’m an insurance guy. All we do is statistical analysis. This is stastically a BAD model.
 
I’m confused.

To clarify I would have hit the thumbs down button on the post you quoted if it was an option. I just don’t understand your post.

He was responding that there are no black coaches with a natty because there haven't been enough black coaches in the same opportunity as Coach Taggart.
And of all the white coaches out there in the last 20 years only about 6 have won nattys.
I initially wasn't going to post in this thread for obvious reasons. However, I'm pleasantly surprised this thread hasn't headed to Gainesville (that's south to you).
I believe a day is coming soon (if we don't destroy ourselves 1st) race will truly be a non factor as opportunities will be the norm.
 
Gifs weren't about the race of the person in them... But this thread isn't about any of that, so stop trying to make it that way or it will go away.

I hope he wasn't serious. I hope that was an attempt at levity, not sardonicism.
 
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