So is anything happening on the news today?
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Don't sell'em short:
"California’s 2.4 trillion GDP in 2015, which ranked sixth behind the United States, China, Japan, Germany and the United Kingdom and slightly above France and Brazil."
You wanna pay more for produce and veggies?
Where would you reposition Camp Pendleton and other military bases, ...how are you gonna get your Chinese goods fix...?
Yes, I'm sure they'll maintain that figure with zero federal dollar subsidies.
California receives less tax dollars than it spends on the federal government. It’s not much of a donor state though, basically for every dollar they send out they get 99 cents this past year. But they wouldn’t be hurting without federal aid if they didn’t have to give it to them. The average states get $1.22 because the government borrows a ton in addition to the tax revenues.
Don’t think you understand... They pay more into the fed than returns to the state. Where would you reposition west coast ports and military bases? If they decide to send produce and veggies elsewhere, who do you buy from?
Cali pisses a lot of red folks off, but perhaps a better understanding of their importance to the country at large is worth researching.
California isn't going anywhere, but if they did, we have plenty of space to relocate our military bases and equipment.
Plenty of space, sure. Coast line, not so much. You would lose ports, and all manner of easier access. Costs and time, which is of utmost importance to the military, would dramatically increase. The ease of access to the space program, Oakland for troop deportation, Camp Pendleton, Miramar,... keep counting.
Besides that, are you assuming flight paths over the new country are a go?
We just redeploy what we need to the surrounding states. We already have bases there and plenty of land. Plus the Naval bases are US property. It could be done.
Oh I understand their geographic luck, but that state's "importance" to the overall health of the nation is dubious at best. We'd make due just fine.
Ugh, Cali is US property until it ain’t.
What is the call sign for a port of call in Nevada of Arizona?
You suggest Cali leaves...that means Cali leaves.
Could just invade Mexico, call it New California and would be able to replace everything agriculture within a couple years except the Haas avocados.
Bet that would end up being a shorter to wall off Cali.
Bet that would end up being a shorter to wall off Cali.
I never suggested Cali leaves. In fact I said California isn't going anywhere.
We have ports in Oregon and Washington. We could make do. Wouldn't be easy and California would probably want to lease some of their port real estate to the US for the income.
It isn't going to happen, although there are rumblings about breaking up California into 2 or 3 states.
What do I need those bases for in 2017? I'm pretty sure the Vietnamese aren't coming after McCain. They let him go.
You expecting someone else?
I don't get this logic either. They're not going to 'send' them to Venezuela, they're going to do what they do now, sell them to people who buy them.
Cmon Gary. Think of what comes thru L A and Long Beach heading over land to the vast world of Wal Mart, Christmas, and customer satisfaction.
Port of LA is a 13.5 percent market share and Long Beach is 12 percent.
Together, New York and Jersey hit 11 percent.
Cali could either levy taxes, slow down trade, or be very friendly... hopefully the latter.
Those who think California is just a nuisance are not very observant. If that western linchpin were severed, you and I would suffer muchly in our economic lifestyle.
The US military would scramble to replace assets and it would not be pretty.
I don't disagree with any of that. Why are you trying to start an argument? California is not seceding.
If they did, we'd have to deal with it.
Ports...You talk about bases, which I agree with. Try doing without warm water ports. Hello, Wal Mart.
You think the price of produce remains the same.
Don't confuse f4 with the factually challenged others.
CA isn't leaving, and if it did both the us and CA would survive - but both would be worse off.
CA isn't leaving, and if it did both the us and CA would survive - but both would be worse off.
The last five times we as the US and as English colonists tried to take over Canada (Quebec Expedition of 1711, King George’s, French and Indian, Revolutionary and 1813 Wars) it did NOT end well for us. In fact we always got our butts kicked by the floppy heads.
Pretty sure we could open up Gitmo II as a coastal base, cause, ya know, CA couldn't do dick about it.
While I think his statements are accurate, I'd also point out that as a senior (who was here with the upper classmen leaders who demanded excellence early in his career), he is now one of the upper class men who should've been doing the same now.
Cali trying to slow down trade that flows through them would only hurt them. It'd be like imposing trade sanctions on themselves. They'd just push the traffic to other ports, and hurt themselves.
Now they'd be free to do it, and maybe dumb enough, but they'd suffer for it, and be able to see the consequences.
I don't think it a nuisance. I would welcome the opportunity for them to show how they think it should be done. The downside I keep hearing is Cali would want a trade war, or some nebulous threat of real war.
Is that all ya got?
Why? Seriously. What is the bogeyman that U.S. California coastal forts hold at bay?
I'm sure California portion of the MIC wouldn't like the idea of losing Uncle Sam as a customer, but those companies would relocate to the appropriate appropriations members districts and life would carry on. CA couldn't figure out something else to do with that money?
I can't ever get enough of these people...
https://www.yahoo.com/style/first-c...-stop-kim-kardashian-halloween-173041618.html
https://www.yahoo.com/style/first-c...-stop-kim-kardashian-halloween-173041618.html
I love the talk of Cali or any other state for that matter seceding and people thinking they would be better off; it really goes to that whole we are just so important mind set or thinking that I you leave any organization they will crumble. As if you or some state is so hard to replace. Sure Cali provides a ton of stuff; however Cali also would loose a ton. Maybe they don't receive what you might call traditional aid/money; however think of what they do receive; border patrol, national defense, federal LE, those ports could be relocated to other places in the US and most of the states they would go to are much less restrictive from unions to wage issues, cost of living etc. What does Cali do for national defense? The Reserve and NG are federally funded and the majority would not stay. All that equipment for the most part is owned by the feds, so it comes back. Sure Cali grows a ton in crops; but with technology today I am pretty sure we could find other places to grow stuff. What about all the federally subsidized education from the PreK level all the way through college. While I am sure there may be legal issues; what about SS and all the health care costs. Of course then there is the border; currently Cali seems to think it is a great idea to allow anyone and everyone into their state, and give them whatever free beneies they can; let me know how that works out financially. Oh and if you think well Cali will be a boom since we buy so much stuff from them or so much stuff passes through there; well let me know what a state billons in debt does to build the infrastructure to support all these things. Finally there is what is lost politically. Cali is a lock for the dems, take that away and our elections look very different. So please Cali I dare you to leave the Union; it is obvious by your current financial situation and managers that everyone in Cali would be rich and living the high life.
Always had a "soft" spot for Kourtney. Maybe not the right word there.
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I think there are more layers to the issue. If a state is a net creditor to the union instead a net debtor, theoretically it could support itself. Moreover, you are assuming that a state like California would maintain the same constitutional democratic republic as the union. In any event, there is no constitutional basis in support of secession. That issue was decided by the Seminole (see what I did there) case of Grant vs. Lee and its progeny.
But you've got to see the frustration that leads to that talk, don't you?
a. If most of the rest of the country thinks completely differently, ideologically, than you do, then after a while don't you feel isolated and unrepresented?
b. If literally half the states in the country are welfare suckholes, and will never, ever change, then shouldn't it be frustrating to be paying into the system that sees other states take that money and use it to further teach their kids the things that you're ideologically opposed to?
I know states will never leave, but I don't blame some of them for wanting to. How about instead of some states leaving, we make low-performing states get better, rather than allowing them to continue to flounder and bring down pretty much every average?
This is entirely on point.
Cali must at times wonder why they contribute money and receive less in return and also wind up being governed federally by groups that are opposite their views.
Cali could leave, form favorable trade and land access (bases/ports/etc...) partnerships with the USA, such that USA would continue to enjoy its strategic trade and military advantages along the Pacific, Cali would receive protection and not need spend much of its tax rev on defense. Cali would enjoy a positive budget situation wherein it wouldn't be a donor state and would be saved significant military expense. They would also then be able to form a government that truly represents their values.
It could be an interesting arrangement, however the US would no doubt be hurt by the loss of tax revenues from Cal, which we may try to make up for via trade tariffs or some other restrictive policy.
Good time reading a bunch of fake news last night and this morning...
Jimbo's reading glasses (as referenced in another thread)!
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