Desal is stupid expensive when compared to treatment. The problem is that people don't like drinking treated water. So instead we clean up water so that it is drinkable...then flush it out into the ocean. Then build desal plants. Stupid squared.
So is anything happening on the news today?
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Wolverines gonna reignite if they try to stop the H2O.
Yeah right. Like Michigan has good water.
That's a top 5 movie, for me. Sting was kinda Top Gun weird.
He will know your ways as if born to them.Time to start drinking our own pee and sweat.
I still use the line "the slow blade penetrates the shield" on occasion, like when an off-speed shot in racquetball or tennis slips through and scores a point.
You keep repeating, pretty much everyone here knows this is a hypothetical discussion about what ifs and not actually a debate.
Agree on a top 5. I have never sat down and read all the books, but I should based on how much I like the story line in the movie.
I must not fear , fear is the mind killer .
Father! The sleeper has awakened!
He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.
Mood is a thing for cattle and loveplay, not fighting!
He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.
Mood is a thing for cattle and loveplay, not fighting!
ok...we've established who the sci fi geeks are...me included!
Uh...don't read all the books. They get pretty weird after the first few.
Father! The sleeper has awakened! - my kids have no idea why I shout this on occasion when I come out of my room.
Hmm, so them making the movie off of one books was the apex of the series then huh?
I don't know if your being naïve on purpose or have no understanding of how these things work. Assets can't be moved? Really if the Feds paid for it plain and simple Cali needs to lease it to use or buy it; it is federally owned property. That includes buildings, material goods, land etc. All the federally protected and owned land now belongs to another country and if you want to keep it or use it you must lease or buy it. All military assets, bases, weapons, production sites, research sites, units, tanks, you name it is owned by the feds. I have no idea why you think the feds would just continue to protect Cali for no charges; never gonna happen and honestly Cali is really just a nice stand off state strategically and if someone wanted to invade the US doing a beach assault would be a very difficult task to accomplish. You seem to have this view (like many people) that there are no 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc order effects with a move like this. Maybe you think that the house and senate would support Cali and keep things they way they are; Nope Cali leaves and now the senate and house will be republican for as long as they want it to be and trust me they will do very little to help a state that hasn't had a view that they agreed with in a long time. I could go on and on; but my guess is you will disagree and not see anything I am saying. This whole secession thing is likely a money or attention grabber anyways; but man I would love to see Cali leave. It would be the best reality show of all time
:South Korea waves timidly:
Well, being fed up with shipping taxes thousands of miles to help a far flung empire keep up its empireness in exchange for laws your people don't even want is no small part of the most famous secession in our history.
I don't disagree with you. Although there is likely more military value in protecting S Korea than Cali if they left the union. We should pull out of many countries we spend a ton to stay in for really very little reason. Troops in Europe and specifically Germany are nothing more than a speed bump that might slow down Russia by an hour or so until they hit the Fulda Gap; but hey we spend a fortune over there. From a military stand point we should tell many of our allies that the 1960s are over and we will support you; but we are not spending billions to make you feel safe, if your scared then do something about it that doesn't include the U.S. spending billions.
As far as Cali they can whine all they want at the end of the day they created their own situation and if it is shipping money across the country that bothers them; maybe they should stop voting for politicians that do everything possible to expand the federal governments reach and all the government programs. If they did that I might have more sympathy for them.
Am I being naive? Or did my brother run a major base in Iraq that we pretty much just up and left? You can take the planes, trucks and computers, but the rest isn't worth the shipping cost to remove.
The US wouldn't protect CA, they would protect the US...which CA is attached to. If CA left do you think they'd suddenly not care about aggressor states being able to approach the west coast? I don't know what to tell you, but that's just dumb.
So is your hope to see CA leave. Dumb. Dumb.
If you say so. I recommend you ask your brother why we left everything there and what the cost of shipping and protecting equipment that caused a huge spike in the national debt out of a land locked war zone costs VS getting it out of a country where major transportation access is everywhere. We also had signed agreements that were beyond bad for the US that helped facilitate the issues in Iraq. Ask your brother why we left Iraq the way we did; if he is being honest he will tell you there were 2 major factors in that process and they can be pinned on 1 politician and 1 career field that people trust less and less everyday. I don't care if you believe me or not and YES I hope Cali leaves if only for the pure enjoyment of watching the state implode with all their good ideas that haven't worked in the history of civilization.
Ranger, surely you watched video of planes and choppers being pushed off of carriers as we left South Vietnam.
The Military Industrial Complex will not bring things “home” from California. Cali would become just another allie to “support” with foreign bases that we spend stupendously money to “protect”.
We would spend stupid money in order to keep the flow through Cali ports. Are South Carolina “ideas”better for the people who live on Hilton Head? Asking for the real people, not the 2 or 3 house folks... The working folks have a great retirement and health care system in place, right?
Actually it is Camp Pendleton; guess that shows how much you know about what is in your state. It is not about who runs things better; it is about one government getting value for the assets it owns from another. Keep up your goal it will be an epic fail that will be so fun to watch.
Are you really suggesting that our government gets value from how military bases are operated? Jeez. When has the US come out ahead with assets overseas. You joking?
Yes I watched recordings of it. I don't understand how you guys can equate leaving a war zone 3000 miles away VS getting stuff back from a state within the union. As far as your HHI comment not sure what you are trying to do; maybe you think I am some rich dude or something? I don't know who has what retirement; I do know that busting my a$$ for the last 30 years, still working 80-100 weeks at 51 and making the right decisions has made my retirement pretty good. Maybe that is what everyone should do? If you want to ask a specific question about HHI and the people there I would gladly answer it; if you are going to throw around generalities then please just go away and get better educated.
You are the guy who went off on California ideas. I wonder about South Carolina ideas and how successful they are in the grand scheme of things. Education ratings? Wages? Life span?
Gosh you're right it is camp. I guess that means I'm wrong about everything! The US would lift the bases out clean leaving bare ground behind, the CA economy would collapse, the Colorado River would stop flowing, and the US would sit back and watch as N Korea invaded and took over the state. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Good lord you guys are uninformed. This will be my last response on this thread tonight since I want to focus on the WS. You are pulling individual comments out of something I posted and trying to sound like you know what your talking about or maybe I don't explain things well? What does a military base offer to a community, well there is the value of 1000's of people buying things on the economy; food, cars and so many other things. There is the land that is owned by and the federal government and more importantly the environmental clean up of the land if you want use it for anything for other than military training; again I could go on. You seem to be fixated on what happened overseas; there is a major difference between pulling equipment back from 3000 miles away and stuff 100 miles from another US state.
Don't know if your wrong about everything; but it shows me you don't know much about what bases are in your state and maybe a bunch of other things. Sorry that your wrong; but I can't help you get smarter, only you can do that for yourself.
I hope you enjoy the game and I hope to as well. Please do not pretend that the military is gonna pull back valuable assets from any base they leave. It is all surplus. What assets have you ever used that came from a base we left?
Yes, yes, clearly messing up the prefix of one of the bases invalidated everything I have to say. Sort of like using "your" instead of "you're" when insulting someone's intelligence.
Might as well leave the gear there...the Army of California will need it since their defense budget will be substantial.
As long as they avoid setting up dictators and later knocking them off, there may not be many enemies. Of course, their biggest neighbor likes to meddle in the affairs of many, so you may be on point.
I think some of you are a bit confused on how the military works. While there are plenty of examples of destroying / abandoning surplus because the cost of retaining is greater than the cost of dumping, that is not how they work in all cases. It really depends.
Lets take a non-hypothetical, NTC Orlando. When the decision to close the base was made, the Navy didn't just walk away. They had inventories of everything (ask me how I know). Everything that had retained value was packed up and shipped to the nearest bases that could use the resources, including the 6 foot propellers that adorned the main entrance to the Nuke School. The structures were left, most likely as part of the sales price the NAVY got from the City of Orlando. Another non- hypothetical, NTC San Diego. As they closed the base, they leased it back to the San Diego. Both are much more relevant to the hypothetical case here than used and abused inventory thousands of miles away. Military owns the base, so if a state decided to succeed, Feds would either force access to their property or negotiate a deal for it to be purchased as part of the state's succession.
There is a saying about once the US military is in a location, they pretty much never leave. I would think a negotiation would be made, not unlike the US bases in Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. I would expect the US Military to simply occupy this foreign nation in addition to the dozens of other countries we currently do. For the record, there are some 48+ military bases or federally funded locations in Cali alone. Pretty sure there would be no ghosting of NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab to be absorbed in the the Republic of California.
In summary, activities when we were leaving Vietnam really wouldn't apply to a modern day succession event. While Iraq closures might be more relevant, being so many thousands of miles away in a land locked location where we were just trying to dip out on the coyote ugly war is also not really an apples to apples IMO. Belem, did you ask your brother if the US leased or owned the land the base was on?
California State Military Reserve shows about 1500 volunteers + about 190,000 federal service members. Pretty sure Cali would have to negotiate a peaceful succession.
Lets take a non-hypothetical, NTC Orlando. When the decision to close the base was made, the Navy didn't just walk away. They had inventories of everything (ask me how I know). Everything that had retained value was packed up and shipped to the nearest bases that could use the resources, including the 6 foot propellers that adorned the main entrance to the Nuke School. The structures were left, most likely as part of the sales price the NAVY got from the City of Orlando. Another non- hypothetical, NTC San Diego. As they closed the base, they leased it back to the San Diego. Both are much more relevant to the hypothetical case here than used and abused inventory thousands of miles away. Military owns the base, so if a state decided to succeed, Feds would either force access to their property or negotiate a deal for it to be purchased as part of the state's succession.
There is a saying about once the US military is in a location, they pretty much never leave. I would think a negotiation would be made, not unlike the US bases in Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. I would expect the US Military to simply occupy this foreign nation in addition to the dozens of other countries we currently do. For the record, there are some 48+ military bases or federally funded locations in Cali alone. Pretty sure there would be no ghosting of NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab to be absorbed in the the Republic of California.
In summary, activities when we were leaving Vietnam really wouldn't apply to a modern day succession event. While Iraq closures might be more relevant, being so many thousands of miles away in a land locked location where we were just trying to dip out on the coyote ugly war is also not really an apples to apples IMO. Belem, did you ask your brother if the US leased or owned the land the base was on?
California State Military Reserve shows about 1500 volunteers + about 190,000 federal service members. Pretty sure Cali would have to negotiate a peaceful succession.
That's an entirely too reasonable post, I feel compelled to reject it on principle. 
Yes, if the stupid secession went thru there would likely be some sort of arrangement made in which the US maintained access to several installations in return for the "forgiveness" of payment for others that they left.
Same with ports. Instead of trying to build new deep water ports in WA and OR they would form a treaty for guaranteed long term access.
Yes, if the stupid secession went thru there would likely be some sort of arrangement made in which the US maintained access to several installations in return for the "forgiveness" of payment for others that they left.
Same with ports. Instead of trying to build new deep water ports in WA and OR they would form a treaty for guaranteed long term access.
That's an entirely too reasonable post, I feel compelled to reject it on principle.
Yes, if the stupid secession went thru there would likely be some sort of arrangement made in which the US maintained access to several installations in return for the "forgiveness" of payment for others that they left.
Same with ports. Instead of trying to build new deep water ports in WA and OR they would form a treaty for guaranteed long term access.
Again you seem to either underestimate what Cali would be required to pay the US or don't want to look at the situation/process honestly. Here is just a small example of what would happen. In 2015 due to BRAC portions of Fort Gillem and Fort McPherson were merged and roughly 400 acres that was closed was sold to Tyler Perry for roughly 30 million. Now this 30 million was for a base that for the last several decades was nothing more than an administrative post; meaning there weren't major exercises like live fires, bombing practice, tank gunnery etc. Why is this important? The biggest reason is environmental clean up and insuring the land is suitable for general use; the cost for this is huge. The environmental clean up would have to occur anywhere ammo was used, fuel depots etc. I don't know what the costs were, but at the time I believe the talk was in the 10's of millions and more than the cost of the land. It was part of the reason the price was so low. While you don't have to do the environmental clean up; then you also can't use the land for anything. The idea that the US government would just strike deals with Cali for things like ports etc while possible is also unlikely for several reasons. Cali looses roughly 40 seats in the house, so they would have very little support in the house for any type of deal. There is also the emotions or anger that would steer how deals go and of course with Cali now being a foreign nation many other states would lobby for the business that previously was based in Cali. Maybe states that border Cali would strike deals to get their products from Cali, due to the cost of goods being transported being much cheaper because of proximity; however almost all other states would likely find other ways/places to get there goods. When it comes to transportation what happens to all the federal roads and rail systems; these were built with federal monies and are owned by the federal government. Maybe you think the US government will just say hey Cali keep those as a house warming gift and say good luck on your new venture; not likely IMO. So the above mentioned are just a couple of very minor things that would have to be dealt with and I promise you the federal government would require compensation for these things. The comparison of the US leaving Vietnam or Iraq is pointless because the situation is completely different. If you think that Cali leaving the US be some panacea then fine; within 2 years though those that decided to stay in Cali would feel very differently and the 6th largest economy in the world would be bleeding debt even more so than now. All the services that are provided by the federal government would need to be replaced and since Cali is such a liberal state it is likely they would put in place restrictive laws that would be a noose on any business that stayed in Cali.
So anything new on the allah akbar dude in NYC? Last I heard he possibly did practice runs beforehand, picked Halloween since more people would be out walking, and wants to hang an ISIS flag in his hospital bed.
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