The Night Of - FINALE...The Call of the Wild (Spoilers)

[dmm5157]

well for us who don't watch with close captioning, what are we missing with the music?? Don't keep a brother in the dark!

I've posted some of them. I'll outline the ones I recall.

During the scene when Nas and Andrea play the game with the knife, the music is talking about her growing cold and dying, I believe.

A lot of times the TV in the background is hard to hear but it's almost always about the case or somehow related. Like this at the very beginning of Episode 5:

Anchorwoman: The mayor and police commissioner met with religious and community leaders at the Al-Khoei Islamic Center. The Islamic Center was one of five places firebombed Sunday night. So far, the police are questioning
a 40-year-old Jamaica, Queens man. He was taken into custody as he walked
to a car with Virginia license plates. The police say he fit the description...​

And this one from the beginning of the last episode:

More violence in Jackson
Heights this morning, this time against a Pakistani driver dragged from his car
and beaten with bricks. Police are calling it a hate crime, adding they believe the
motivation for the attack is the Nasir Khan case. Mr. Khan is on trial for the stabbing murder of Andrea Cornish.​

There was music when Nas is in the cell with Freddy talking about prison life and the music was about changing if I recall correctly. I'd have to go back to see for sure.

Funny thing is the SRT subtitles I find online do not have the music closed captioning. Only HBO does. That is a little odd.

 

[dmm5157]

The system is not interested in looking past its nose. The detective focuses on the gift of easy evidence before his retirement. The overworked DA wants a conviction. She is literally managing the testimony of public servants to agree to a narrative she wants to believe in

Why didn't the police know that the house she lived in was still in probate? They already met the "widower". Why is Stone the only one who looks into the property records? Why is it Stone that finds out about Duane Reade? Why is it Stone that tracks down her drug supplier? Why is it Chandra that reaches our to the hearse chauffer? The police do nothing but focus on proving what they want to prove.

The whole first episode was like watching someone stuck in an elevator and he is getting more and more claustrophobic. The police say he tried to run. But that only happened when three people touched him at the same time. He wasn't running. He needed to breathe.

Here in lies the point of the show IMO. It's to tell a story about a person who we don't actually know is innocent or guilty and has a mountain of evidence that points to his guilt. We want to believe he's innocent and these other seedy people are the perpetrators, but we don't actually know.

And much like us, the Police weave a story that makes the most sense to them. With Nas, he doesn't give them a compelling explanation to force them to look for another person that could have committed the crime. He doesn't offer them any evidence, and they've seen thousands of guilty people come and go that act just as irrationally as he has.

Add to that, the aspect that the family cannot afford decent defense. His life is at the hands of a young, inexperienced lawyer and an ambulance chaser and he's going up against a mountain of physical evidence, without even the slightest hint that there could have been another person in the house or that could have done it.

If Nas had fled without forgetting his possessions (keys, wallet, etc), it's doubtful he would have ever been connected to the crime. He wouldn't have had the knife on his person, he wouldn't have had a cut on his hand. The police would have released him and dad would have gotten his cab back the next day. Then the police would have then followed their usual leads, investigated the step-dad, etc. Nas was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that has been a recurring theme in this show.

 

[northvanole]

Here in lies the point of the show IMO. It's to tell a story about a person who we don't actually know is innocent or guilty and has a mountain of evidence that points to his guilt. We want to believe he's innocent and these other seedy people are the perpetrators, but we don't actually know.

And much like us, the Police weave a story that makes the most sense to them. With Nas, he doesn't give them a compelling explanation to force them to look for another person that could have committed the crime. He doesn't offer them any evidence, and they've seen thousands of guilty people come and go that act just as irrationally as he has.

Add to that, the aspect that the family cannot afford decent defense. His life is at the hands of a young, inexperienced lawyer and an ambulance chaser and he's going up against a mountain of physical evidence, without even the slightest hint that there could have been another person in the house or that could have done it.

If Nas had fled without forgetting his possessions (keys, wallet, etc), it's doubtful he would have ever been connected to the crime. He wouldn't have had the knife on his person, he wouldn't have had a cut on his hand. The police would have released him and dad would have gotten his cab back the next day. Then the police would have then followed their usual leads, investigated the step-dad, etc. Nas was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that has been a recurring theme in this show.

Completely agree. A cold and dark story, reminiscent of Hitchcock's Strangers on a Train.

 

[rdbarks10]

I really like this show but somethings don't add up for Naz to be the murder.

1) Why did Duane have that look on his face when they walked into her building? I'm not buying it was just a racial thing
2) Why did the witness lie and say he was by himself and why did he get angry when the DA asked him where they were going that night? See I think they were part of the murder being in the house
3) Didn't her dealer imply that he owed his supplier some money? Could it be that Andrea was behind in paying for drugs?
4) TOO MUCH of this series is about assuming Naz did it because of circumstantial evidence; lack of investigation from police except for Box and the DA assumes it premeditated; the point would be lost to just make Naz guilty all along.
5) I still think something is up with them needing to get the cab back, feels a bit gangster like

One point that confuses me is why pick up the knife and take it with you? He could have wipe off his prints and left it there.

 

[northvanole]

I really like this show but somethings don't add up for Naz to be the murder.

1) Why did Duane have that look on his face when they walked into her building? I'm not buying it was just a racial thing
2) Why did the witness lie and say he was by himself and why did he get angry when the DA asked him where they were going that night? See I think they were part of the murder being in the house
3) Didn't her dealer imply that he owed his supplier some money? Could it be that Andrea was behind in paying for drugs?
4) TOO MUCH of this series is about assuming Naz did it because of circumstantial evidence; lack of investigation from police except for Box and the DA assumes it premeditated; the point would be lost to just make Naz guilty all along.
5) I still think something is up with them needing to get the cab back, feels a bit gangster like

One point that confuses me is why pick up the knife and take it with you? He could have wipe off his prints and left it there.

I agree with you that the look on Duane's face was very telling. He was staring very intently. I guessed he knew what was supposed to happen, but she was supposed to be alone. I also guessed that the killer was already in the house. And to your other point, I wonder if Duane was connected to the drug supplier. I don't think Trevor is in on it. He said he was alone because he already knew that Duane, although a friend, is a common thief.

But as far as Andrea being behind in the drug payments, I am confused as to the status of the mother's estate. She wouldn't need the money if she inherited it. The "widower" trainer gets it if Andrea dies and there is no will - but I can't remember the status of the details. Is that what the trainer and the CPA fighting about at the funeral?

 

[rdbarks10]

I think the changes for Naz is the pressure to survive in prison if this all goes south. He had two different inmates tell him how he needs to act to survive and how to adjust. After that bunk mate turns on him, he realizes that he needs protection and he's been taking advice from other inmates by working out and trying to give a don't mess with me vibe. This is why he shaves his head, smokes crack, and gets tattoos. Also the changing of the channel to provoke someone is another way he's showing not to be messed with.

I'm also curious how theme of Raz always trying to fit in plays out. I think he was taking Adderall to keep his GPA at a certain level to get into a grad school and could be to please his parents. He then really cooperates with Box and the police to fit in as being innocent and helps with the investigation. Once in prison, he reluctant to change but then starts working out and gets help from Freddie so smuggles drug, shaves his head, gets a tattoo, starts smoking stuff. He keeps adjusting to fit in. It seems like something is going to backfire on him soon.

 

[Nole Lou]

I really like this show but somethings don't add up for Naz to be the murder.

1) Why did Duane have that look on his face when they walked into her building? I'm not buying it was just a racial thing
2) Why did the witness lie and say he was by himself and why did he get angry when the DA asked him where they were going that night? See I think they were part of the murder being in the house
3) Didn't her dealer imply that he owed his supplier some money? Could it be that Andrea was behind in paying for drugs?
4) TOO MUCH of this series is about assuming Naz did it because of circumstantial evidence; lack of investigation from police except for Box and the DA assumes it premeditated; the point would be lost to just make Naz guilty all along.
5) I still think something is up with them needing to get the cab back, feels a bit gangster like

One point that confuses me is why pick up the knife and take it with you? He could have wipe off his prints and left it there.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I "think" Naz did it...who knows what the writers have planned. But they've given far more than enough to believe he might have done it, and we know more than the cops that points to him possibly doing it. So I'll take a stab at your questions...

1) He's a criminal. He sees these two inebriated folks, a girl and a schoolboy, going into a $10M apartment. Easy pickings for later.

2) Because the witness knows his friend is a wanted guy. And his friend is a bad dude. There's no way he would squeal. He didn't want to cooperate at all, let alone throw his friend under the bus. This isn't remotely difficult to believe.

3) Missed that I guess, don't really care.

4) I'm not that disturbed by the lack of other investigation...the circumstantial case is extremely strong against Naz, and they're only going to worry about strengthening that case. They've got tons of evidence of him being there, defensive wounds, physical evidence of being on the scene, he was caught fleeing the scene, AND HE HAD THE MURDER WEAPON. If any other scenario plays out of it not being Naz, it's going to be a hugely "TV-like" twist, and the cops don't chase crazy TV twists.

5) The other two guys are totally screwed in their livelihood based on what stupid Naz did. I don't see how that makes them gangsters or suspicious.

Why did he pick up the knife and take it with him...maybe because it's the murder weapon and he remembers he killed her, or thinks there's a good chance he did.

But I will once again say...the refusal to address the drain evidence is frustrating. The biggest holdout for Naz's innocence, really the only one, is that he wasn't totally covered with the victim's blood. If the cops have drain evidence of blood in the shower drains, then that mostly goes away. If they tested and DON'T have blood evidence in the shower drains, that is a strong boost to Naz' innocence. It's frustrating to have that held back.

 

[rdbarks10]

I agree with you that the look on Duane's face was very telling. He was staring very intently. I guessed he knew what was supposed to happen, but she was supposed to be alone. I also guessed that the killer was already in the house. And to your other point, I wonder if Duane was connected to the drug supplier. I don't think Trevor is in on it. He said he was alone because he already knew that Duane, although a friend, is a common thief.

But as far as Andrea being behind in the drug payments, I am confused as to the status of the mother's estate. She wouldn't need the money if she inherited it. The "widower" trainer gets it if Andrea dies and there is no will - but I can't remember the status of the details. Is that what the trainer and the CPA fighting about at the funeral?

I just think the racial card and the legal system assuming guilt is TOO MUCH in the show for Naz to be guilty. Plus his brother gets in trouble for fights about Naz and his nationality. It also keeps getting brought that they think he's Arabic and he's not and the assumptions of guilt made because of this. Doesn't make sense for everyone to be right all along.

 

[rdbarks10]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I "think" Naz did it...who knows what the writers have planned. But they've given far more than enough to believe he might have done it, and we know more than the cops that points to him possibly doing it. So I'll take a stab at your questions...

1) He's a criminal. He sees these two inebriated folks, a girl and a schoolboy, going into a $10M apartment. Easy pickings for later.

2) Because the witness knows his friend is a wanted guy. And his friend is a bad dude. There's no way he would squeal. He didn't want to cooperate at all, let alone throw his friend under the bus. This isn't remotely difficult to believe.

3) Missed that I guess, don't really care.

4) I'm not that disturbed by the lack of other investigation...the circumstantial case is extremely strong against Naz, and they're only going to worry about strengthening that case. They've got tons of evidence of him being there, defensive wounds, physical evidence of being on the scene, he was caught fleeing the scene, AND HE HAD THE MURDER WEAPON. If any other scenario plays out of it not being Naz, it's going to be a hugely "TV-like" twist, and the cops don't chase crazy TV twists.

5) The other two guys are totally screwed in their livelihood based on what stupid Naz did. I don't see how that makes them gangsters or suspicious.

Why did he pick up the knife and take it with him...maybe because it's the murder weapon and he remembers he killed her, or thinks there's a good chance he did.

But I will once again say...the refusal to address the drain evidence is frustrating. The biggest holdout for Naz's innocence, really the only one, is that he wasn't totally covered with the victim's blood. If the cops have drain evidence of blood in the shower drains, then that mostly goes away. If they tested and DON'T have blood evidence in the shower drains, that is a strong boost to Naz' innocence. It's frustrating to have that held back.

I think there's too much assuming. Like the coroner said his cut on his hand could be from the glass but the DA pressures him to be more convincing how he says. The DA assuming that he waited for this girl to get in his cab when he didn't know how to turn the off duty light on.

Plus like I said a lot of scences assuming he's guilty. The prisoner throws stuff at him because the guy that killed his niece said he was innocent as well. Too much of a theme that everyone is assuming guilt. Plus why show these events:

1) stepfather arguing at the funeral
2) girl saying she can't be alone tonight
3) why the scenes about being in and out of treatment centers

I think more and more it's something from the girl's past that got her kill. Freddie knows that Naz is innocent which is why he takes him under his wing. Remember he gave him a book and underneath it, it said "Take the deal". Freddie knows that a plea bargain was going on even though Naz never brought it up. I think Freddie could have the same drug dealer as Andrea and that's how he know who killed the girl. The murder implies that someone personally knowing her or to send a message to other users to not fall behind.

 

[rdbarks10]

Another thought of the step father is that he would have a key to the house. I rewatched the first episode, Andrea definitely had her mind on something else all that night because she didn't really hear Naz's questions to her. It makes me think she knew someone was after her that night. I would ask the cop why Naz asked where a street was if he was waiting for her. The Hearst driver follows them as well and his conversation with the lawyer is just too weird to not be question. Also she asks Naz a lot of questions about Naz's relationship with his Dad, very interesting. She also talks about getting away from something and not being alone that night. Duane starring like he knows something like thru saw someone go into the house earlier or he notices she shouldn't be going in there wit him.

In regards to him looking clean when waking up. His hair is still messed up and the reason there's no blood on his shirt is because he was wearing a black shirt over that one when she was kissing him with a bloody hand. Also another thing to note, the knife that they "think" is the murder weapon doesn't have enough blood on it to be the weapon. You could say he wipe it off how do you do that and still have a little blood on the knife.

More and more I watch, the more I think that he's just the fall guy.

 

[QuaZ2002]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I "think" Naz did it...who knows what the writers have planned. But they've given far more than enough to believe he might have done it, and we know more than the cops that points to him possibly doing it. So I'll take a stab at your questions...

1) He's a criminal. He sees these two inebriated folks, a girl and a schoolboy, going into a $10M apartment. Easy pickings for later.

2) Because the witness knows his friend is a wanted guy. And his friend is a bad dude. There's no way he would squeal. He didn't want to cooperate at all, let alone throw his friend under the bus. This isn't remotely difficult to believe.

3) Missed that I guess, don't really care.

4) I'm not that disturbed by the lack of other investigation...the circumstantial case is extremely strong against Naz, and they're only going to worry about strengthening that case. They've got tons of evidence of him being there, defensive wounds, physical evidence of being on the scene, he was caught fleeing the scene, AND HE HAD THE MURDER WEAPON. If any other scenario plays out of it not being Naz, it's going to be a hugely "TV-like" twist, and the cops don't chase crazy TV twists.

5) The other two guys are totally screwed in their livelihood based on what stupid Naz did. I don't see how that makes them gangsters or suspicious.

Why did he pick up the knife and take it with him...maybe because it's the murder weapon and he remembers he killed her, or thinks there's a good chance he did.

But I will once again say...the refusal to address the drain evidence is frustrating. The biggest holdout for Naz's innocence, really the only one, is that he wasn't totally covered with the victim's blood. If the cops have drain evidence of blood in the shower drains, then that mostly goes away. If they tested and DON'T have blood evidence in the shower drains, that is a strong boost to Naz' innocence. It's frustrating to have that held back.

To address 4) it would have to really bother you, and scare you, as a prosecution to have no motive and to have a suspect with a more or less spotless record. Him having gotten in a fight in 9th grade after being bullied is hardly much evidence that he's capable of killing a girl he just met in cold blood. The defense can absolutely prove that Naz's intentions that night were to attend a party, they would have his buddy to testify that they had plans. So a jury would be expected to believe instead of going to a party he decided to go out and stalk young women in the hopes of being invited to their apartments so he could murder them? So I guess what you're trying to sell is that it was some crime of passion, and that he killed her in a drug fueled rage I guess?

There are three characters out there that will need to be addressed in these next two episodes. Duane, the hearse driver, and the step father. I can't imagine at this point anyone else is going to be introduced. So did the stepfather hire Duane murder Andrea with the knowledge that Naz would be there and easy to frame?

 

[Nole Lou]

To address 4) it would have to really bother you, and scare you, as a prosecution to have no motive and to have a suspect with a more or less spotless record. Him having gotten in a fight in 9th grade after being bullied is hardly much evidence that he's capable of killing a girl he just met in cold blood. The defense can absolutely prove that Naz's intentions that night were to attend a party, they would have his buddy to testify that they had plans. So a jury would be expected to believe instead of going to a party he decided to go out and stalk young women in the hopes of being invited to their apartments so he could murder them? So I guess what you're trying to sell is that it was some crime of passion, and that he killed her in a drug fueled rage I guess?

I don't think it would scare a prosecutor too much if you had the guy fleeing the scene with the murder weapon, with blood evidence on him, along with tons of eyewitness and recorded confirmation of him on the scene, with the girl, etc, and no alibi or explanation on his part.

I think it's about as easy as it gets for the prosecution. That doesn't mean that it's impossible that someone else did it, but I doubt many cases are much stronger than that.

Let's face it, the ONLY alternative is that someone else snuck in, with him in the apartment, violently murdered the girl, and got back out, with no witnesses, and without Naz even noticing. AND then the murderer would have to count on Naz to do the most incredibly stupid things of fleeing the scene in plain site, with blood on him, touching the knife, taking the knife with him, etc, which would even further cement the case against Naz and give cover to the real murderer.

That absolutely could have happened...but pretty much only on TV. I don't think the prosecutors would be worried at ALL about making this case.

 

[GoNolesTX]

I don't think it would scare a prosecutor too much if you had the guy fleeing the scene with the murder weapon, with blood evidence on him, along with tons of eyewitness and recorded confirmation of him on the scene, with the girl, etc, and no alibi or explanation on his part.

I think it's about as easy as it gets for the prosecution. That doesn't mean that it's impossible that someone else did it, but I doubt many cases are much stronger than that.

Let's face it, the ONLY alternative is that someone else snuck in, with him in the apartment, violently murdered the girl, and got back out, with no witnesses, and without Naz even noticing. AND then the murderer would have to count on Naz to do the most incredibly stupid things of fleeing the scene in plain site, with blood on him, touching the knife, taking the knife with him, etc, which would even further cement the case against Naz and give cover to the real murderer.

That absolutely could have happened...but pretty much only on TV. I don't think the prosecutors would be worried at ALL about making this case.

Under that scenario, I don't think the purported assailant would be banking on anything relating to Naz. Going over a realistic timeline, Naz was passed out in the kitchen (1st floor, sub-ground level) for roughly 30 minutes (Desi, go over your notes and correct me if needed). If said killer entered at ground level via the unlocked door that Andrea let the cat out of, he/she would have no knowledge of Naz existing, go to the 2nd/3rd floor where Andrea was passed out in bed, carry out the act, then flee again out of the unlocked door.

Without knowing much of anything about Andrea's backstory as far as known acquaintances/friends/etc., what worry would the neighbors have of seeing someone enter/exit the brownstone at an odd hour of the night? This would simply be chalked up to random NYC violence. IF Naz did not kill her, all he's done is stumble his way in to being a patsy.

 

[dmm5157]

Under that scenario, I don't think the purported assailant would be banking on anything relating to Naz. Going over a realistic timeline, Naz was passed out in the kitchen (1st floor, sub-ground level) for roughly 30 minutes (Desi, go over your notes and correct me if needed). If said killer entered at ground level via the unlocked door that Andrea let the cat out of, he/she would have no knowledge of Naz existing, go to the 2nd/3rd floor where Andrea was passed out in bed, carry out the act, then flee again out of the unlocked door.

Without knowing much of anything about Andrea's backstory as far as known acquaintances/friends/etc., what worry would the neighbors have of seeing someone enter/exit the brownstone at an odd hour of the night? This would simply be chalked up to random NYC violence. IF Naz did not kill her, all he's done is stumble his way in to being a patsy.

Correct. There has been repeated focus on Nas not being visible from someone going up the stairs. It's very possible that someone who knew about that lower level door could have gotten in (Especially if they had a key) and left without being seen. Step dad would have had a motive, so he probably would have had to hire someone to make the hit. Possibly Duane Reade? Then again DR would have known Nas was there and likely wouldn't have left him there alive with risk of being able to visually ID him ... or he left him there alive to potentially take the fall.

But that makes no sense as to why Trevor would go back to the scene of the crime. And Trevor being brought in by the police would be a huge red flag for Duane to want to take care of that potential issue.

 

[Noles61]

The step father has everything to gain. One question Trevor was asked (don't remember if it was the police or Stone who asks the question) why was he walking in that neighborhood that time of night. Trevor never mentions the man that was with him. Odd The stepfather sees a picture of his murdered stepdaughter and doesn't recognize her? Odd.
I think the two black males were hired by the stepfather to kill Andrea, which is why they were in that neighborhood that time of night. They just got very lucky that Naz was there too. I also believe the entrance point through the gate the cat was let out.
In Naz defense, how do you brutally stab someone 20+ times and yet your clothes are blood spatter free. Yes, he has blood from touching her, but he if were stabbing her repeatedly he would have spatter on his clothes, face, hair and hands.
I think the show is a who-dun-it first, and a example (or indictment) of the criminal justice system. All makes a great statement as to what can happen to good/innocent people when put into a situation where they have to do anything to survive. Naz in prison.

The totally irony may be that Naz is found innocent of the crime he is accused of committing and yet he is forced to commit a crime in prison that ends up leaving him there forever.

 

[dmm5157]

The step father has everything to gain. One question Duane was asked (don't remember if it was the police or Stone who asks the question) why was he walking in that neighborhood that time of night. Duane never mentions the man that was with him. Odd The stepfather sees a picture of his murdered stepdaughter and doesn't recognize her? Odd.
I think the two black males were hired by the stepfather to kill Andrea, which is why they were in that neighborhood that time of night. They just got very lucky that Naz was there too. I also believe the entrance point through the gate the cat was let out.
In Naz defense, how do you brutally stab someone 20+ times and yet your clothes are blood spatter free. Yes, he has blood from touching her, but he if were stabbing her repeatedly he would have spatter on his clothes, face, hair and hands.
I think the show is a who-dun-it first, and a example (or indictment) of the criminal justice system. All makes a great statement as to what can happen to good/innocent people when put into a situation where they have to do anything to survive. Naz in prison.

The totally irony may be that Naz is found innocent of the crime he is accused of committing and yet he is forced to commit a crime in prison that ends up leaving him there forever.

Trevor, not Duane. Trevor is the talkative and animated black guy that Box and the prosecutor talk to. Duane Reade is the guy that Stone chases and gets away.

 

[Noles61]

Trevor, not Duane. Trevor is the talkative and animated black guy that Box and the prosecutor talk to. Duane Reade is the guy that Stone chases and gets away.

Thanks. Fixed it. Not good at names.

 

[SoddyNole]

The step father has everything to gain. One question Trevor was asked (don't remember if it was the police or Stone who asks the question) why was he walking in that neighborhood that time of night. Trevor never mentions the man that was with him. Odd The stepfather sees a picture of his murdered stepdaughter and doesn't recognize her? Odd.
I think the two black males were hired by the stepfather to kill Andrea, which is why they were in that neighborhood that time of night. They just got very lucky that Naz was there too. I also believe the entrance point through the gate the cat was let out.
In Naz defense, how do you brutally stab someone 20+ times and yet your clothes are blood spatter free. Yes, he has blood from touching her, but he if were stabbing her repeatedly he would have spatter on his clothes, face, hair and hands.
I think the show is a who-dun-it first, and a example (or indictment) of the criminal justice system. All makes a great statement as to what can happen to good/innocent people when put into a situation where they have to do anything to survive. Naz in prison.

The totally irony may be that Naz is found innocent of the crime he is accused of committing and yet he is forced to commit a crime in prison that ends up leaving him there forever.

But the murder scene appeared to be more of a mutilation than an assassination. A hired killer would do the job and get out asap. Those two do no appear smart enough to do the job without leaving clues and have the forethought to set up Naz and leave the inhaler on the bed.

After all this time I still can not get past the inhaler being used as a set up item. It makes me wonder if the killer was in the house when he first came in and used it after seeing the cat or he/she knows Naz.

 

[Noles61]

But the murder scene appeared to be more of a mutilation than an assassination. A hired killer would do the job and get out asap. Those two do no appear smart enough to do the job without leaving clues and have the forethought to set up Naz and leave the inhaler on the bed.

After all this time I still can not get past the inhaler being used as a set up item. It makes me wonder if the killer was in the house when he first came in and used it after seeing the cat or he/she knows Naz.

Could be Duane and Trevor are just a red herring. There's also the limo driver--is he involved or just a very creepy guy?
They wouldn't have had to set Naz up, they just got lucky he was there and waited to kill her once she and Naz were passed out. Naz was in the room with her at one point, that might be when he left the inhaler.
If Naz didn't do it, then it was just an odd random attack or it was premeditated. Seems like the only one with something to really gain from it would be stepdad. Your theory could be right, that perhaps the stepdad was in the house already. I believe he said he had an alibi, but I'm not sure anyone really checked it out.
When Stone met with the accountant/attorney/executor(didn't catch what the man's profession was) in last episode and found out how much Andrea was worth and that step dad would inherit if she died, it's the first time any one learns that stepdad had a real financial motive. If he didn't set the wheels in motion, he certainly got very lucky.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Couple of things here.

3. Nas doesn't wake up on the 2nd floor. He wakes up in the kitchen, which is on the 1st floor. This is also the floor where the broken get opens up to (front access). Also opens up to back door. Based on the crime scene investigator, it's conceivable that the killer (Step-dad?) came in through the door with the broken gate and walked straight up the stairs, never even seeing Nas.

I've rewatched the episode where Stone hires the private crime scene investigator (want to go back and watch Ep1) but it appears there's 2 sets of steps on the ground floor (which isn't uncommon for those brownstones, the hired help would come in through the back entrance with access to the kitchen and a separate set of steps so they were always unseen by the family or guest).

The deer head (appeared to have been moved) was near the front street entrance with the automatic locking door. There appears to be 2 rooms off of the foyer entrance (the room to the left is where Andrea and Naz play their knife game and later where Stone and Chandra are sitting when the private CSI says he found something).

It appears the paint is different for each set of steps too but I'm not sure if it's lighting/angles or not.

 

[Rhino_nole]

There also appears to be a motorcycle revving its engine and a horn honking when Naz wakes up from the kitchen table. So you might have another witness out there that saw someone leaving the area besides Naz.

A lot of red herrings but reasonable doubt is all they need.

 

[ericram]

Could be Duane and Trevor are just a red herring. There's also the limo driver--is he involved or just a very creepy guy?
They wouldn't have had to set Naz up, they just got lucky he was there and waited to kill her once she and Naz were passed out. Naz was in the room with her at one point, that might be when he left the inhaler.
If Naz didn't do it, then it was just an odd random attack or it was premeditated. Seems like the only one with something to really gain from it would be stepdad. Your theory could be right, that perhaps the stepdad was in the house already. I believe he said he had an alibi, but I'm not sure anyone really checked it out.
When Stone met with the accountant/attorney/executor(didn't catch what the man's profession was) in last episode and found out how much Andrea was worth and that step dad would inherit if she died, it's the first time any one learns that stepdad had a real financial motive. If he didn't set the wheels in motion, he certainly got very lucky.

Stabbings like this one are not random. They are either crimes of passion or revenge. There were 22 wounds by knife and it looked like she was also beaten. I have a hard time believing that it was done by anybody that did not know her.

 

[northvanole]

That mo

Stabbings like this one are not random. They are either crimes of passion or revenge. There were 22 wounds by knife and it looked like she was also beaten. I have a hard time believing that it was done by anybody that did not know her.

Valid point - but have we met someone who hated her out of passion or revenge? There are no boy friends. The "step dad" is certainly pissed, but anyone would see his financial gain and would make him a suspect (other than the NYC police dept. who never uncovered the probate issues). The chauffer met her randomly. The drug supplier does not seem up to the task. Duane is a small time crook. The only real criminal is Freddie. But how does he connect to her? He definitely wanted Naz to take the plea deal and he is making jail time as pleasant as possible for the only non black person in his crew.

 

[Noles61]

Stabbings like this one are not random. They are either crimes of passion or revenge. There were 22 wounds by knife and it looked like she was also beaten. I have a hard time believing that it was done by anybody that did not know her.

I believe you are correct, knives are up-close and personal.
I've said I believe her step father is involved somehow, whether he did it or hired someone to do it.
But, if you get caught up in what's "typical" you often miss a suspect.
You just had two people brutally stabbed to death in Tallahassee-- the attacker didn't know the victims.
You hear of rape victims being brutally stabbed to death, by a rapist they don't know.
I do believe however you are right, in the since there will be a reason someone had Andrea killed, whether the killer actually knew her or not.
Joe Kenda says there are murder is always about three things: money, sex or revenge. I'm going with money. It's interesting reading all the different takes/perspectives on the show. Guess we will find out in a couple of weeks.

 

[rdbarks10]

I don't think it would scare a prosecutor too much if you had the guy fleeing the scene with the murder weapon, with blood evidence on him, along with tons of eyewitness and recorded confirmation of him on the scene, with the girl, etc, and no alibi or explanation on his part.

I think it's about as easy as it gets for the prosecution. That doesn't mean that it's impossible that someone else did it, but I doubt many cases are much stronger than that.

Let's face it, the ONLY alternative is that someone else snuck in, with him in the apartment, violently murdered the girl, and got back out, with no witnesses, and without Naz even noticing. AND then the murderer would have to count on Naz to do the most incredibly stupid things of fleeing the scene in plain site, with blood on him, touching the knife, taking the knife with him, etc, which would even further cement the case against Naz and give cover to the real murderer.

That absolutely could have happened...but pretty much only on TV. I don't think the prosecutors would be worried at ALL about making this case.

There are not as many witnesses as you listed just the guy across the street that hears glass break and Trevor saw him go into the house.

However the cops have been lazy and didn't question any other neighbors. Plus if the stepfather is involved he would have a key and could walk in without creating much noise.

I repeated again then knife that they have can't be the murder weapon because of how little blood is on it. I could see someone being in the house or going in the back door without much noise and the cat would know the stepfather. My feeling is the killer never knew about the other knife on the second floor because it's hard to believe that you leave it in the same place with that little of blood on it. I think the inhaler is just blind luck and maybe it landed there while Naz was rushing to put on his jacket and it fell out.

 

[dmm5157]

I've rewatched the episode where Stone hires the private crime scene investigator (want to go back and watch Ep1) but it appears there's 2 sets of steps on the ground floor (which isn't uncommon for those brownstones, the hired help would come in through the back entrance with access to the kitchen and a separate set of steps so they were always unseen by the family or guest).

The deer head (appeared to have been moved) was near the front street entrance with the automatic locking door. There appears to be 2 rooms off of the foyer entrance (the room to the left is where Andrea and Naz play their knife game and later where Stone and Chandra are sitting when the private CSI says he found something).

It appears the paint is different for each set of steps too but I'm not sure if it's lighting/angles or not.

I screen capped pictures of every room that the investigator or Stone/Chandra are in. Saved them here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rvvm02rzy1qwb70/AADeAO9JbBsydEdNQe_wT7mCa?dl=0


I also compiled a layout of Andrea's apartment. It's unknown if she has a basement, but that was included in the sample Brownstone floor layout I found online. If I need to revise something about it, let me know.

 

[rdbarks10]

I think the hearse driver or step father has the hate to do a stabbing 22 times. The hearse driver gives a very cold and angry interview to Chandra. He has a lot of anger towards women. It's also seen on tape that he's following them.

I think the killer waited for the drugs to kick in on both of them so there would be less of a struggle to kill Andrea plus one of the drugs numbs you from pain so no screaming. This why I think the step father did it because he would know what drugs that she takes regularly. I think for Naz, he just wanted to make sure he was knocked out. Plus I think all of Naz's actions were a bonus because I think the killer expected Naz to wake up when the police arrived. Remember they got a call while Naz was pulled over.

Also the refrigerator door being left open would tell the killer Naz was out of it. Plus Naz's hair still looks ruffled like a girl had ran her hands through it so no shower. Plus we don't know how long he was passed out. My guess is it was longer then 30 minutes.

 

[northvanole]

I think the hearse driver or step father has the hate to do a stabbing 22 times. The hearse driver gives a very cold and angry interview to Chandra. He has a lot of anger towards women. It's also seen on tape that he's following them.

I think the killer waited for the drugs to kick in on both of them so there would be less of a struggle to kill Andrea plus one of the drugs numbs you from pain so no screaming. This why I think the step father did it because he would know what drugs that she takes regularly. I think for Naz, he just wanted to make sure he was knocked out. Plus I think all of Naz's actions were a bonus because I think the killer expected Naz to wake up when the police arrived. Remember they got a call while Naz was pulled over.

Also the refrigerator door being left open would tell the killer Naz was out of it. Plus Naz's hair still looks ruffled like a girl had ran her hands through it so no shower. Plus we don't know how long he was passed out. My guess is it was longer then 30 minutes.

You make some good points. I always wondered if the murderer was already in the house when they walked in. If my hunch is correct, the murderer knew they had sex and then Naz passed out downstairs. Obviously the police would check for evidence of sex. However, to assume that the murderer thought that the police would come might be a stretch because the police were only called by the neighbor who saw Naz break the glass. The murderer had no way to know that would happen.

We are still missing the link to the truth. If we follow the flow of the story, it is logical that Stone figures this out. So we have to see it through his eyes. Why is he keeping the cat if he's allergic to it? I asked earlier if he was sifting the litter box for cat droppings. Why?

 

[Nole Lou]

Agreed on the style of murder. That pretty much eliminates something like an assassination masterminded from prison, or a robbery gone bad, or something like that.

The only two ways people are killed like that are by someone they know, or by a disorganized serial killer type.

That means either Naz or the Stepfather killed her, or another character we have not been introduced to, or I guess conceivably an unrevealed relationship between the victim and say, Duane Reede. But that killing style says Naz or Stepdad.

However, interestingly, the introduction of the hearse driver adds a "serial killer type" to the mix. Pretty sharp by the writers.

I don't think there's any way that the it's a murder for hire. Nobody would risk that mess and that sloppiness in a murder for hire. A bullet finishes that, and simply ransack the place so it's looks like a botched robbery.

Of course, there's no guarantee the show goes consistent with real life, but if we do, there's only three suspects so far that we've been introduced to that would conceivably kill like that...Naz, stepdad, hearse driver.

I stand by my prediction that Naz will be found innocent, but later will be revealed to have killed her, probably by Duane Reede having witnessed it after breaking into the house to rob them.

 

[Nole Lou]

Once again, Naz not having blood on his clothes is not the least bit exonerating. They just had sex. They were naked. If she had said something or done something to set him off, it would be absurd for him to step back, get dressed, and THEN stab her to death.

The ONLY factor related to that is why he's not covered with blood on his body, on his face and under his clothes, when they book him. To me, the prosecution has to explain that. And they easily can, if they pulled the drains and found blood.

But so far there's been no indication they found that. There's been no indication that they DIDN'T find evidence of cleanup. It's been just totally ignored by both LE and the defense in the onscreen events. It's the one piece of evidence that strongly points to or against Naz's guilt, and it's just untouched. I guess to keep it open ended.

 

[northvanole]

It is not easy to remove that much blood from underneath your fingernails. And I can't think of a reason why he would want to kill her. For the season to wait until episode 8 to tell us that they inspected the drains and found the blood would be a total waste of dramatic effect. If the drugs did it, but still had the presence of mind to clean himself, and then passed out in the kitchen as opposed to just leaving knowing he was guilty - I can't get there.

This is not LOST where the writers and producers that started the series was not the same group that ended it. This is a calculated mind game that the writers are playing on us. They are taunting us. (Like a cat). I predict that they will give a hint in episode 7 that reminds us of something we already know but ignored that will lead to the answer - through the eyes of John Stone. It's in the inspectors pictures. Something is in there that does not align with the detectives perfect little open and shut case. As Box will say next week (based on previews) " I rely on evidence more than a confession" But he is only looking at the evidence the way he wants to.

Box thinks he has the perfect evidence. But he and the DA know that they have no motive unless Naz is a cold blooded killer. And that is why the DA is once again impacting the testimony by having an expert testify that the drugs would not impact Naz's ability to know what he is doing. We have seen no evidence - nothing - not even in Naz's prior acts of violence - that would lead one to believe that she did something to make him snap and kill her.

 

[rdbarks10]

Once again, Naz not having blood on his clothes is not the least bit exonerating. They just had sex. They were naked. If she had said something or done something to set him off, it would be absurd for him to step back, get dressed, and THEN stab her to death.

The ONLY factor related to that is why he's not covered with blood on his body, on his face and under his clothes, when they book him. To me, the prosecution has to explain that. And they easily can, if they pulled the drains and found blood.

But so far there's been no indication they found that. There's been no indication that they DIDN'T find evidence of cleanup. It's been just totally ignored by both LE and the defense in the onscreen events. It's the one piece of evidence that strongly points to or against Naz's guilt, and it's just untouched. I guess to keep it open ended.

You keep missing that the knife didn't have enough blood on it to be a murder weapon. When you stab someone 22 times and there is that much blood spatter then knife would be covered in blood. There is very little blood on that knife. That's hard to do, wipe off a knife and leave a little blood. Plus the coroner said that someone stabbing would have had a knife cut on the hand. Why no knife cut on Naz's hand?

 

[rdbarks10]

It is not easy to remove that much blood from underneath your fingernails. And I can't think of a reason why he would want to kill her. For the season to wait until episode 8 to tell us that they inspected the drains and found the blood would be a total waste of dramatic effect. If the drugs did it, but still had the presence of mind to clean himself, and then passed out in the kitchen as opposed to just leaving knowing he was guilty - I can't get there.

This is not LOST where the writers and producers that started the series was not the same group that ended it. This is a calculated mind game that the writers are playing on us. They are taunting us. (Like a cat). I predict that they will give a hint in episode 7 that reminds us of something we already know but ignored that will lead to the answer - through the eyes of John Stone. It's in the inspectors pictures. Something is in there that does not align with the detectives perfect little open and shut case. As Box will say next week (based on previews) " I rely on evidence more than a confession" But he is only looking at the evidence the way he wants to.

Box thinks he has the perfect evidence. But he and the DA know that they have no motive unless Naz is a cold blooded killer. And that is why the DA is once again impacting the testimony by having an expert testify that the drugs would not impact Naz's ability to know what he is doing. We have seen no evidence - nothing - not even in Naz's prior acts of violence - that would lead one to believe that she did something to make him snap and kill her.

I think Box is trying to confirm his theory but even he knows it's not solid evidence. Police are in a hurry to get a conviction which isn't how big city cops operate but more small time cops.Most cops are very slow to name a killer but this show presents as they are quick to get this done because of media attention. Naz also been pressure to take a deal and even to the point of a plea at the last minute.

Also something has to change that night with his interaction with Andrea to kill her. Remember she is sympathic to strife he's received as a Pakastanian and she present more as his escape from everyone telling him what to do. I don't see him losing it without her making fun of him first.

 

[Noles61]

You make some good points. I always wondered if the murderer was already in the house when they walked in. If my hunch is correct, the murderer knew they had sex and then Naz passed out downstairs. Obviously the police would check for evidence of sex. However, to assume that the murderer thought that the police would come might be a stretch because the police were only called by the neighbor who saw Naz break the glass. The murderer had no way to know that would happen.

We are still missing the link to the truth. If we follow the flow of the story, it is logical that Stone figures this out. So we have to see it through his eyes. Why is he keeping the cat if he's allergic to it? I asked earlier if he was sifting the litter box for cat droppings. Why?

I think he's keeping the cat because he has a soft spot. Allergic or not, he feels sorry for the cat, who lost it's owner and whose fate was to be euthanized until he chose to take it home. I don't think he's expecting for the cat to crap out some evidence or point to the murderer. I think it just shows the compassionate side of Stone.

 

[Rhino_nole]

It was stated that the knife wounds could have been from a serrated knife. It's been mentioned twice with no recall to whether the stab wounds are consistent with a serrated knife or not.

There's also a chain of custody issue with the evidence from episode 1.

There's small nuggets sprinkled throughout the 1st 2 episodes with regards to the evidence and the investigation that has to come into play in the trial.

 

[rdbarks10]

It was stated that the knife wounds could have been from a serrated knife. It's been mentioned twice with no recall to whether the stab wounds are consistent with a serrated knife or not.

There's also a chain of custody issue with the evidence from episode 1.

There's small nuggets sprinkled throughout the 1st 2 episodes with regards to the evidence and the investigation that has to come into play in the trial.

I've been disappointed that the cops haven't examined the cut wounds better. I would think forensic would have a field day with the knife not matching the cut wounds.

 

[SoddyNole]

Watch the part when we first see Duane on the sidewalk. Notice while his friend confronts Naz, Duane stays back. Also pause on when the camera pans on him as he stares at the couple. I think we may be completely misreading that scene. Unless it is poorly acted that is not the look of an angry dude. His eyes would be squinting and his forehead wrinkled. Duane has the look of a fear, eyes wide open and a smooth forehead. An odd look for a stoner and unlike his friend who is mad.

When the girl pulls out the draw to get the knife to cut up the limes, stop the picture. You will see a clear picture of a knife she pulls out and the corkscrew covering what appears to be two more knives, matching the black handle with the silver rim. So the question is in the photo by the detective we see only one knife left in the drawer. The missing knife has to be the murder weapon.

Another thing about that original scene is I wanted to see when the fridge was left open. We never see it opened, all we see is Naz waking up in the kitchen with a fridge door opened. Who over the age of 10 leaves a fridge door open, i used that age due to son at 7 leaving the freezer in the garage open while getting a freeze pop and spoiling hundreds of dollars of meat? I think with all the focus of the door obscuring the view of the stairs, we are led to assume this very well was done on purpose.

Before they get busy up stairs he does take a puff of the inhaler and drops it while undressing. We don't see where it lands but I seriously doubt this inhaler would make it back to the position that the police found it free of blood.

 

[rdbarks10]

Watch the part when we first see Duane on the sidewalk. Notice while his friend confronts Naz, Duane stays back. Also pause on when the camera pans on him as he stares at the couple. I think we may be completely misreading that scene. Unless it is poorly acted that is not the look of an angry dude. His eyes would be squinting and his forehead wrinkled. Duane has the look of a fear, eyes wide open and a smooth forehead. An odd look for a stoner and unlike his friend who is mad.

When the girl pulls out the draw to get the knife to cut up the limes, stop the picture. You will see a clear picture of a knife she pulls out and the corkscrew covering what appears to be two more knives, matching the black handle with the silver rim. So the question is in the photo by the detective we see only one knife left in the drawer. The missing knife has to be the murder weapon.

Another thing about that original scene is I wanted to see when the fridge was left open. We never see it opened, all we see is Naz waking up in the kitchen with a fridge door opened. Who over the age of 10 leaves a fridge door open, i used that age due to son at 7 leaving the freezer in the garage open while getting a freeze pop and spoiling hundreds of dollars of meat? I think with all the focus of the door obscuring the view of the stairs, we are led to assume this very well was done on purpose.

Before they get busy up stairs he does take a puff of the inhaler and drops it while undressing. We don't see where it lands but I seriously doubt this inhaler would make it back to the position that the police found it free of blood.

I've said it before that the cops are too quick assume the knife they found on him is the murder weapon. I think a killer would bring his own knife and take it with him. Although someone would have to know their were knives in that second level room before going to bed, again points to stepfather. Plus if it was Naz why go to down stairs and leave the knife in the same place of the game. I would think he passed out after the shower that the kife would be on the kitchen counter with him. By the way the already checked the drain in the first episode so the shower part isn't possible.

Another thing Trevor comes back to scene and willfully gives up info about Naz that looks suspicious. I still think there's more of a reason why he lied about Duane not being there. Duane either knows something is up with that look or he recognized the girl from some other drug stuff.

Also she talks about transporting herself away from where she is at, she knows she was in trouble that night. There's something else going on that night that she's involved in.

 

[ericram]

Time for a good old flash back to what led up to her getting into the cab.

 

[dmm5157]

So I went back to re-watch the first episode again and noticed a few things now.

What do you see different about the drawer where Andrea gets the knife out of?

Here's a screen capture from when she's taking the knife out.

And here's a picture from Stone's investigator in Episode 5.

We know the window of time was small here so someone quickly walked up the stairs, grabbed a knife out of the open drawer then walk upstairs and kill Andrea. They also did not leave the knife behind. If the killer came in from the first level through the door with the broken gate (as we suspect), then they would have walked right past this drawer and taken a similar path that Nas took when he woke up and walked upstairs.

 

[rdbarks10]

I rewatched episode 2, the inhaler was already labelled as a piece of evidence but Box took it from the crime scene; isn't that tampering with evidence and grounds for a mistrial? I agree with those that said Box did this because it hurts his case with it having no blood on it and where it was found. Also look like Naz dropped it on the floor not on the bed. No way for that inhaler to be there and not have blood on it. Box is trying to hurry this up because he's about to retire and doesn't want this to drag on. They're putting too much of a rush on convicting him.

The cross examination of Box should be interesting, hope Chandra knows what she's doing. I feel more comfortable if John stepped in on this one.