There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines

[GbrNole]

If you take into account vaccinated vs unvaccinated and use the recent CDC data which states that over 50 age group is 40 times more likely to be hospitalized. I believe it will fall in the risk being 12 percent risk to unvaccinated and .03 percent risk to the vaccinated. Pretty startling numbers.

here's a link to the CDC's data that the recent articles were based on. omicron began to spike in mid december but didn't peak until about a week or so after the reporting period.

the 40-50 times is for the partial month of december and is based on those who had received booster doses. the fully vaxx numbers are still much better for avoiding hospitalization but to a lesser degree than the 50+ population with an additional booster dose.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

 

[goldmom]

The FDA just canceled the EUA for Regeneron treatments so Florida is forced to close down the treatment sites that have been so impactful in keeping breakthrough cases out of hospitals.
Not good news.

 

[fsufool]

there's 63 million people in the US in the 50-64 age group.

Hmmmmm. that is not what I found. Source? (Don't know who is correct)

 

[GeddyLee09]

The FDA just canceled the EUA for Regeneron treatments so Florida is forced to close down the treatment sites that have been so impactful in keeping breakthrough cases out of hospitals.
Not good news.

I'm sure that its out of an abundance of caution and is in no way politically motivated.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I'm sure that its out of an abundance of caution and is in no way politically motivated.

Do you have any evidence at all to show that this decision is not driven by which therapies actually work best against Omicron (now accounting for over 95% of Covid infections nationwide, I’m not sure the % for FL) and which don’t? Regeneron concedes that their treatment loses efficacy against Omicron, while there are several newer therapeutics by other pharmas that do work, and focus is now on ramping up their production. Where’s the political conspiracy here?
(You are the poster who just claimed not to look at Covid issues through a political lens, correct?)

 

[GbrNole]

Hmmmmm. that is not what I found. Source? (Don't know who is correct)

here's is the easiest visualization (albeit from july 2020 - a million or so less back then). they pull their info from the US census bureau.

Population of the U.S. by sex and age 2023 | Statista

The estimated population of the U.S.

www.statista.com

the numbers concur with kaiser tables when you factor the 20 million or so in the 50-54 age range.

Population Distribution by Age | KFF

www.kff.org

 

[fsufool]

here's is the easiest visualization (albeit from july 2020 - a million or so less back then). they pull their info from the US census bureau.

Population of the U.S. by sex and age 2023 | Statista

The estimated population of the U.S.

www.statista.com

the numbers concur with kaiser tables when you factor the 20 million or so in the 50-54 age range.

Population Distribution by Age | KFF

www.kff.org

I needed to put my reading glasses on. I looked at the Kaiser stats and didn't note the starting age of 55 instead thought 50. Thanks, .12% then...........

 

[GbrNole]

I needed to put my reading glasses on. I looked at the Kaiser stats and didn't note the starting age of 55 instead thought 50. Thanks, .12% then...........

also i think you might be off by a factor of 10 on the hospitalization numbers? the CDC pegs the hospitalization rate at 1,246 people per 100,000 population in the 50-64 age group. these are the cumulative rates since the beginning.

COVID-19 Hospitalizations

gis.cdc.gov

 

[F4Gary]

I'm sure that its out of an abundance of caution and is in no way politically motivated.

Follow the money...

 

[fsufool]

also i think you might be off by a factor of 10 on the hospitalization numbers? the CDC pegs the hospitalization rate at 1,246 people per 100,000 population in the 50-64 age group. these are the cumulative rates since the beginning.

COVID-19 Hospitalizations

gis.cdc.gov

I noted the discrepancy. They have a cumulative total of 76,986 hospitalized in the 50-64 age group. So, as you pointed out 63MM folks in that age group. .12% hospitalized.

COVID-19 Hospitalizations

gis.cdc.gov

 

[GeddyLee09]

Do you have any evidence at all to show that this decision is not driven by which therapies actually work best against Omicron (now accounting for over 95% of Covid infections nationwide, I’m not sure the % for FL) and which don’t? Regeneron concedes that their treatment loses efficacy against Omicron, while there are several newer therapeutics by other pharmas that do work, and focus is now on ramping up their production. Where’s the political conspiracy here?
(You are the poster who just claimed not to look at Covid issues through a political lens, correct?)

Not political from my view but the question remains. Was that decision based on what you say or on politics or both? Id venture to say its all at play here. You cant say that politics didn't drive that decision in some way or form.

 

[ChiefWB]

Follow the money...

Follow the efficacy....

 

[GeddyLee09]

Follow the money...

There is that factor as well. Again for 1961 sake not being political but there is a financial part here that cant be ignored.

 

[GbrNole]

I noted the discrepancy. They have a cumulative total of 76,986 hospitalized in the 50-64 age group. So, as you pointed out 63MM folks in that age group. .12% hospitalized.

COVID-19 Hospitalizations

gis.cdc.gov

i think that number is specific to the covid-net reporting hospital group and not the nation as a whole? there's been a hair over 3M covid hospitalizations.

the 50-64 death toll is about 154K. that's a really poor result on 77K hospitalized!

 

[GeddyLee09]

Follow the efficacy....

Serious question regarding efficacy since you brought it up. Maybe Dearsh or someone smart about this stuff can answer. If a treatment works in only a small percent of cases and its not dangerous why would you not allow doctors to prescribe it? Why not use all the tools you have available to treat this virus?

 

[fsufool]

I noted the discrepancy. They have a cumulative total of 76,986 hospitalized in the 50-64 age group. So, as you pointed out 63MM folks in that age group. .12% hospitalized.

COVID-19 Hospitalizations

gis.cdc.gov

As best as I can figure out, the actual hospitalizations is from the Covid-Net sites only. So, they calculate a rate based on population served from those sites. Still seems to be high to me with over 1% of those age groups hospitalized. But, they considered you hospitalized for Covid if you have had a positive Covid test within 14 days of admission or during your stay in the hospital. So, this is catching a lot of folks that are hospitalized for problems not associated with their Covid positive test or who tested positive after entering the hospital (for presumedly other health issues). Bottom line.........1.2%.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Not political from my view but the question remains. Was that decision based on what you say or on politics or both? Id venture to say its all at play here. You cant say that politics didn't drive that decision in some way or form.

Lol or SMH or both
Only on message boards could somebody suggest without any basis beyond conjecture that an already medically justified decision is “politically motivated” and “you can’t say that politics didn’t drive that decision in some way or form”, while at the same time insisting that there’s nothing political about that presumption.
Awareness much?
We’re living in bizarroworld for sure.

 

[fsufool]

Serious question regarding efficacy since you brought it up. Maybe Dearsh or someone smart about this stuff can answer. If a treatment works in only a small percent of cases and its not dangerous why would you not allow doctors to prescribe it? Why not use all the tools you have available to treat this virus?

Because there is no "proof" it works in any cases. Most likely just correlation without causation, or coincidence that you give it and and someone gets better, because most people do get better. Also, Omicron is a variant that isn't responding to the same drugs that the previous variants did because of the difference spike proteins (I think I got that last part right).

 

[ChiefWB]

A lot of money spent to invest in a product you are planning to pull the rug out from under. The last order nearly doubled the original investment. Is this considered “following the money”? https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...doses-regenerons-covid-19-therapy-2021-09-14/

 

[GeddyLee09]

Lol or SMH or both
Only on message boards could somebody suggest without any basis beyond conjecture that an already medically justified decision is “politically motivated” and “you can’t say that politics didn’t drive that decision in some way or form”, while at the same time insisting that there’s nothing political about that presumption.
Awareness much?
We’re living in bizarroworld for sure.

Yes you can. You can have no political motivation at all and still come to the conclusion that this could be driven by more than medical evidence. I guess since you see everything from your political foxhole others cant see it the same way. The decision to pull those treatments could be politically, financially and scientifically driven all at the same time. Or maybe not, who knows?

 

[GeddyLee09]

A lot of money spent to invest in a product you are planning to pull the rug out from under. The last order nearly doubled the original investment. Is this considered “following the money”? https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us...doses-regenerons-covid-19-therapy-2021-09-14/

Very odd indeed. Why pull it if its just ineffective? Why not leave it up to the doctors? If it works in 1 person its better than not having it. New treatments did come out between September and now right?

 

[NoleSince1961]

Yes you can. You can have no political motivation at all and still come to the conclusion that this could be driven by more than medical evidence. I guess since you see everything from your political foxhole others cant see it the same way. The decision to pull those treatments could be politically, financially and scientifically driven all at the same time. Or maybe not, who knows?

And you immediately jumped to the political motivation presumption without any research into the science behind this medical decision. But of course, you’re free of political lens. Cool. Whatever floats your boat. Carry on.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Very odd indeed. Why pull it if its just ineffective? Why not leave it up to the doctors? If it works in 1 person its better than not having it. New treatments did come out between September and now right?

If you’re genuinely interested in the reasoning here, you might want to research the cost to taxpayers for all those Regeneron treatments and think about efficacy in relation to cost/benefit and prudent stewardship of everybody’s hard earned money… is that 1 person you hypothesize about above (or whatever the projected # of beneficiaries is) worth the heavy cost? And resources diverted from prophylactics/preemptives and therapeutics with higher efficacy expectations?

Edit: early on, funding for the FL Regeneron treatments was federal (meaning all US taxpayers footing the bill.) Not sure if FL has since contributed in any way to the costs after the initial rollout announcements.

 

[ChiefWB]

Very odd indeed. Why pull it if its just ineffective? Why not leave it up to the doctors? If it works in 1 person its better than not having it. New treatments did come out between September and now right?

Why expose anyone to a therapy that is proving to be useless on this variant? Hopefully this thing is winding down but Regeneron is there for future variants and I imagine will be invested in and called upon if it proves to be useful. The company is also working on making its product effective against omicron. But it is pretty obvious who you are getting your talking points from. Almost verbatim.

 

[ChiefWB]

If you’re genuinely interested in the reasoning here, you might want to research the cost to FL taxpayers for all those Regeneron treatments and think about efficacy in relation to cost/benefit and prudent stewardship of everybody’s hard earned money… is that 1 person you hypothesize about above (or whatever the projected # of beneficiaries is) worth the heavy cost? And resources diverted from prophylactics/preemptives and therapeutics with higher efficacy expectations?

$2100 dollars per treatment.

 

[SteveT1]

The FDA just canceled the EUA for Regeneron treatments so Florida is forced to close down the treatment sites that have been so impactful in keeping breakthrough cases out of hospitals.
Not good news.

That seems dumb. @Dhersh do you know whether the monoclonal antibody treatment targets the same protein as the vaccine(s)?

 

[goldmom]

Why expose anyone to a therapy that is proving to be useless on this variant? Hopefully this thing is winding down but Regeneron is there for future variants and I imagine will be invested in and called upon if it proves to be useful. The company is also working on making its product effective against omicron. But it is pretty obvious who you are getting your talking points from. Almost verbatim.

Okay. I got a Regeneron. My daughter got one. My sister got one.
Daughter had breakthrough Delta, she was vaxxed. I was exposed to her and lost taste and smell and so did my sister. We were vaxxed as well. Within 36 hours we were all recovering.
Omicron is now dominant but Delta is not entirely gone.
That treatment kept us out of the hospital. $2100 is cheap compared to a hospital stay.

 

[NoleSince1961]

For anyone who prefers research into things they’re not sure about before passing judgment…

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

U.S. FDA limits use of Regeneron, Lilly COVID-19 antibody treatments

The U.S. health regulator revised on Monday the emergency use authorizations for COVID-19 antibody treatments from Regeneron and Eli Lilly to limit their use, as the drugs are unlikely to work against the Omicron coronavirus variant.

www.reuters.com

Regeneron Pharmaceuticals : U.S. Food and Drug Administration Revises Emergency Use Authorization for REGEN-COV® (casirivimab and imdevimab) Antibody Cocktail due to Omicron Variant

January 24, 2022 U.S. Food and Drug Administration Revises Emergency Use Authorization for REGEN- COV® Antibody Cocktail due to Omicron Variant Regeneron...

www.marketscreener.com

 

[NoleSince1961]

Okay. I got a Regeneron. My daughter got one. My sister got one.
Daughter had breakthrough Delta, she was vaxxed. I was exposed to her and lost taste and smell and so did my sister. We were vaxxed as well. Within 36 hours we were all recovering.
Omicron is now dominant but Delta is not entirely gone.
That treatment kept us out of the hospital. $2100 is cheap compared to a hospital stay.

Glad to hear you all had such positive outcomes with Delta and Regeneron.
Hopefully Omicron is the last Covid-19 variant any of us or our family and friends, healthcare workers, etc have to deal with.
Go Noles!

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

The FDA just canceled the EUA for Regeneron treatments so Florida is forced to close down the treatment sites that have been so impactful in keeping breakthrough cases out of hospitals.
Not good news.

But keep wearing those silly masks that the government is now circulating, right?

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Okay. I got a Regeneron. My daughter got one. My sister got one.
Daughter had breakthrough Delta, she was vaxxed. I was exposed to her and lost taste and smell and so did my sister. We were vaxxed as well. Within 36 hours we were all recovering.
Omicron is now dominant but Delta is not entirely gone.
That treatment kept us out of the hospital. $2100 is cheap compared to a hospital stay.

Lots of folks just enjoy wearing their masks....makes them look better too.

 

[ChiefWB]

Okay. I got a Regeneron. My daughter got one. My sister got one.
Daughter had breakthrough Delta, she was vaxxed. I was exposed to her and lost taste and smell and so did my sister. We were vaxxed as well. Within 36 hours we were all recovering.
Omicron is now dominant but Delta is not entirely gone.
That treatment kept us out of the hospital. $2100 is cheap compared to a hospital stay.

I don’t think anyone is questioning Regeneron’s success with previous variants. And your experience sounds well worth it to me. The mutations have changed things as an estimated 99.5% of new cases are omicron variant. Hopefully investment into emerging therapies will breed positive results like Regeneron.

 

[AllNoles]

Whoooo boy, now that's a term.

Not divisive at all, huh? It’s those not like that who cause the issues like the Penn Swimmer thread.

 

[AllNoles]

Do you have any evidence at all to show that this decision is not driven by which therapies actually work best against Omicron (now accounting for over 95% of Covid infections nationwide, I’m not sure the % for FL) and which don’t? Regeneron concedes that their treatment loses efficacy against Omicron, while there are several newer therapeutics by other pharmas that do work, and focus is now on ramping up their production. Where’s the political conspiracy here?
(You are the poster who just claimed not to look at Covid issues through a political lens, correct?)

Phizer concedes it’s shots are losing efficacy and they aren’t stopped. They’re forced by mandate. Regeneron happened to be a Florida thing to it. It got canceled. Politics can apply at same time some science is involved.

 

[ChiefWB]

Phizer concedes it’s shots are losing efficacy and they aren’t stopped. They’re forced by mandate. Regeneron happened to be a Florida thing to it. It got canceled. Politics can apply at same time some science is involved.

You are on to something. Maybe Regeneron should consider a booster shot.🤣🤣🤣

 

[SteveT1]

For anyone who prefers research into things they’re not sure about before passing judgment…

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.

www.webmd.com

U.S. FDA limits use of Regeneron, Lilly COVID-19 antibody treatments

The U.S. health regulator revised on Monday the emergency use authorizations for COVID-19 antibody treatments from Regeneron and Eli Lilly to limit their use, as the drugs are unlikely to work against the Omicron coronavirus variant.

www.reuters.com

Regeneron Pharmaceuticals : U.S. Food and Drug Administration Revises Emergency Use Authorization for REGEN-COV® (casirivimab and imdevimab) Antibody Cocktail due to Omicron Variant

January 24, 2022 U.S. Food and Drug Administration Revises Emergency Use Authorization for REGEN- COV® Antibody Cocktail due to Omicron Variant Regeneron...

www.marketscreener.com

The fed began pulling the treatment before Omicron. Surprised they have enough data to back this decision--I mean, it took 7 months for the CDC to say the vaccine wasn't as strong as natural immunity against Delta. I don't know if the treatment is effective against Omicron, but I doubt Florida would be this upset if it wasn't working. Florida has been pretty spot-on throughout the pandemic. Not perfect, but its record is much better than the feds (either administration).

 

[NoleSince1961]

Phizer concedes it’s shots are losing efficacy and they aren’t stopped. They’re forced by mandate. Regeneron happened to be a Florida thing to it. It got canceled. Politics can apply at same time some science is involved.

Attempting to equate loss of one aspect of efficacy on a relatively inexpensive per dose vaccine that continues to play an important role in reducing hospitalization and death, vs loss of nearly the entire purpose for a highly expensive per dose after the fact therapeutic is a meaningless comparison, but I’m guessing you knew that.

 

[Dhersh]

Serious question regarding efficacy since you brought it up. Maybe Dearsh or someone smart about this stuff can answer. If a treatment works in only a small percent of cases and its not dangerous why would you not allow doctors to prescribe it? Why not use all the tools you have available to treat this virus?

Neither Eli Lilly or Regeneron have disputed claims that their treatment is ineffective against the current variant. I haven't looked a lot into this but i think the main reasoning leans more to the legal/efficacy arguments than it does the political/follow the money arguments.

An important factor is that this treatment was only available via EUA which defines strict standards under which it can be made available to the public. If any of those standards are not met, the EUA will be cancelled. It's been a while since I've looked into what it takes to be eligible for EUA and I can't remember what all needs to be true for EUA to occur, but anyone who wants to dive into that can find it on the HHS website I believe. If not HHS then FDA.

If I had to guess, the reasoning for the cancellation was some combinations of ineffectiveness against the current variant and the fact that there are multiple other treatments available that work, but again, the EUA requirements would need to be known to be sure.

I'm sure the companies will continue to research and develop their monoclonal antibodies. This doesn't mean the end of this treatment, just that it can't be used, currently. New EUAs can be made in the future and the treatment will probably be submitted for full FDA approval someday.

 

[AllNoles]

Attempting to equate loss of one aspect of efficacy on a relatively inexpensive per dose vaccine that continues to play an important role in reducing hospitalization and death, vs loss of nearly the entire purpose for a highly expensive per dose after the fact therapeutic is a meaningless comparison, but I’m guessing you knew that.

Then let the state decide. My issue is the damn fed controlling it all. The fed can stay out of it. It’s involvement is very much political. You’re just ok with the direction of the politics.

 

[Dhersh]

Then let the state decide. My issue is the damn fed controlling it all. The fed can stay out of it. It’s involvement is very much political. You’re just ok with the direction of the politics.

EUA and approval is a federal process. I would imagine states don't have the resources for that. Plus then you run into the possibility interstate issues which, again, are a federal issue.