Let the states decide? Like Florida? What we witnessed in late summer was completely unnecessary and avoidable.
There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines
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You’d probably be better off not telling me what I’m Ok with and why.
You’re the one who continually injects politics into the Covid conversation and then recoils at being challenged on it.
I’ve made very clear that I’m always going to give the greatest weight to the prevailing science when it comes to public health matters, and I’m comfortable with the reality that what constitutes the prevailing science will change as viruses mutate and experts learn more about what’s working and not working. If respecting scientific/medical expertise is more closely correlated with being a Dem than a Republican, which demographic studies say is true, I’m cool with that.
It’s unfortunate that so many folks aren’t comfortable with the complexities of a novel virus and go straight to whatever tribal presumptions they prefer.
And your “the Fed can stay out of it” wisdom fails to address how state by state FDA/CDC type agencies are going to be more effective in protecting us all from health threats that don’t respect state borders, conveniently ignores the fact that it’s “the Fed” (actually FEMA I believe, funded by all US taxpayers) who’ve been paying for Florida’s Regeneron treatments, and basically all the other reality that conflicts with your apparent need to vent.
Good luck with all that.
20,000 deaths over two months? With vaccines, therapeutics and 18 months of hard learning and information at our disposal?
You go with what works. The virus evolves, so we should as well. Even Sotrovimab, one of the few if any monoclonal antibody treatments effective against omicron, requires a higher concentration than was previously successful against other variants. This thing is constantly changing.
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Yeah, no politics at all at the state level. None. Nope. These aren't the droids you are looking for.
So, that’s why we have states. States get it right and states get it wrong. I think Florida has gotten it right more than others. The fed involvement here started when it was working here and Biden took control of supply only to not use it. Now they say it can’t be used because it doesn’t work for omicron. That’s a fine position to take. Or warning to give. But the decision to do that on a variant a month abs a half old is BS and political. It’s not even hidden.
Just because the variant showed up about a month and a half ago doesn't mean there wasn't use for the treatment then, and until more recently when the variant became very dominant. I think that's an unfair stance to take and it would have been irresponsible to cancel the EUA without having reason to do so, as you are suggesting.
Well I think they’re absolutely irresponsible and political.
Didn’t phsizer make a treatment? Like a tamiflu type med for CoVid?
Didn’t phsizer make a treatment? Like a tamiflu type med for CoVid?
"Biden took control of supply only to not use it"? Huh?
Not that an accurate accounting of events matters when you simply want to assign nefarious intent to an administration you don't support, but here are the facts anyway... The federal government actually intervened (with FEMA, via all US taxpayers, paying the bill) in anticipation of impending product shortages and to ensure more equitable distribution to all states in most need (that need correlating strongly with the lowest vaccination rates), just as FL would have wanted if it were facing a likely shortage due to overallocation to another state.
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Just before revoking the EUA, the Fed received a temporary victory in the form of scotus allowing vaccine mandates to proceed for health care workers in facilities that accept Medicare/Medicaid. DeSantis responds with “not in Florida.” Less than 2 weeks later, the fed revokes the EUA for antibody treatments. Florida has nearly $1 billion to spend on treatments. Despite being the third most populous state and paying more than its share of taxes/fed programs (including one with incredible waste run by FEMA… Floridians pay about 50% of the funds received, but less than 10% of funds disbursed), Florida is willing to spend. It’s rare our state government is willing to throw money around. It would not do so here if the treatment was not effective.
It is an accurate statement. Fed prohibited states from purchasing the treatment directly. Florida was distributing 30,000 doses/week before the fed took control. Just before doing so, the admin did say if governors wouldn’t jump on board, theyd get them out of the way.
Just before revoking the EUA, the Fed received a temporary victory in the form of scotus allowing vaccine mandates to proceed for health care workers in facilities that accept Medicare/Medicaid. DeSantis responds with “not in Florida.” Less than 2 weeks later, the fed revokes the EUA for antibody treatments. Florida has nearly $1 billion to spend on treatments. Despite being the third most populous state and paying more than its share of taxes/fed programs (including one with incredible waste run by FEMA… Floridians pay about 50% of the funds received, but less than 10% of funds disbursed), Florida is willing to spend. It’s rare our state government is willing to throw money around. It would not do so here if the treatment was not effective.
Not sure WTH this even means.
cool, what part of that word salad addresses the "...only to not use it" allegation I was responding to?
And in the state with the most vulnerable demographic, and the largest tourist presence?
December 23rd, 2021
www.nytimes.com
Hospitals Scramble as Antibody Treatments Fail Against Omicron (Published 2021)
The single remaining monoclonal antibody therapy effective against the variant is now in short supply in the U.S., imperiling an option that doctors and hospitals have relied on.
cousin died after 2nd vacc....go take a big leap off a cliff!!!....and as the pro choice people say..dont tell me what to do with my body!!!....
Then it might have made sense to not treat this thing like it doesn't exist. Instead, 20,000 Floridians perished.
How many had 4+ comorbidities?
Let me guess youre a die hard liberal ...and anyone can find "facts" if they need them to suit their purpose as in your party of say and create a crisis for any power grab necessary......and btw the blue states of course had "the most need"...lol.....get real
Does that make them surplus? You are missing the point, this was 18 months into the pandemic. The road map was there for those that chose to use it. An average of 385 people were dying each day Labor Day weekend despite the progress that had been made and the tools at our disposal. That is hard to wrap my brain around.
You are going to get the thread locked. Please stop with the politics. Thanks.
Relevance?
Are people with some of these super common co-morbidities expendable?
Depression, previous smoker, diabetic, etc
People with Certain Medical Conditions
What you can do if you are at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19.
www.cdc.gov
Suicide, car accidents, etc. the count has been inflated. We’ve gone through this already. Those who had covid within 90 days of death are covid deaths. Those who have a cough and die are presumed covid deaths even without a positive print.Relevance?
Are people with some of these super common co-morbidities expendable?
Depression, previous smoker, diabetic, etc
People with Certain Medical Conditions
What you can do if you are at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19.
What roadmap? Masks? Vaccine mandates/passports? Lockdowns? The snowbirds never left Florida in 2021… there’s been a steady surge of people from New England/NY moving here throughout the pandemic. Of course we had a surge with the delta. Other states did too. Ours quieted down when the treatment sites opened.
July 4th Florida was averaging 30 deaths per day
September 1st Florida was averaging over 350 deaths per day
Did they just decide to inflate deaths in August and September? And even you don't believe your line about having a cough.
Other states didn't have 20,000 deaths over two months. Even Illinois and New York survived last winter, with very limited vaccinations and less than that number over the 5 month winter (November thru March).
If only they didn’t send so many of their elderly folks this way to get sick and die.
The notion that Covid deaths are being massively over counted has been thoroughly disproven. The excess death statistic exceeds the numbers attributed to Covid. Evidence to the contrary is only supported by anecdotal evidence which is being collated and distributed to those people who are susceptible to misinformation.
No matter which side of the aisle someone is on, they are susceptible to "misinformation"... no matter the source. I will admit that I tend to be skeptical of many things that any politician/bureaucrat tries to shove down the collective public's throat. So many of those people have a political agenda that absolutely factors into their decisions. I have seen it first hand, many times. The reality is, much of the bureaucracy in Washington is mainly leaning toward one particular side of the aisle. It seems naive to think that they are free from any bias for political gain.
Most people are skeptical of messages coming from the other tribe, no matter which tribe they are in.
Lol we’ve been through what before? You and a handful of similarly aligned posters continually posting speculative discredited nonsense without any credible citations that certainly appeals to likeminded members of your tribe but runs completely counter to excess death statistics and actual fact?
A small number of incorrect death attributions in either direction does not materially change Covid reality, and there are just as many speculative arguments for undercounts as overcounts.
Good luck though with your persistent attempts to downplay Covid’s actual impacts.
I’m sure that’ll bring people’s family members back and convince health care workers that their burnout was imagined.
Take care.
This stuff is a lot easier to figure out than people want to believe. When it came to covid deaths the first place I looked was at excess deaths. I felt that the numbers were likely undercounted from the start and the excess death totals supported that conclusion.
To be fair there was alot of travel to Florida during the summer months which did add to the case and death numbers. Not all were from Illinois, NY, NJ ect but living here year round you can definitely see the additional out of state tags driving around especially last summer.
My problem is that the people that are susceptible to misinformation when they proven wrong just move on to the next one and so on and so on. Do you remember the port in the middle east that suffered a catastrophic explosion. It was not long before people were bringing in videos and sharing them that showed a missile hitting the port. I did some research because I suspected it was bogus and it turned out that someone had inserted a cartoon missile into the video. Yet I guarantee that there are still people today that believe that video even though when you slow it down it is a missile that you would see in a Bugz Bunny cartoon.
People have opinions on the matter, some out of first hand experience. On here you have folks that have had close friends and family members impacted and you have those that haven't been impacted at all. Some work in the health care industry or are first responders and all have different experiences. Doesn't make one more or less valid than the other.
Watching all this is like the WWE. The media managed to use that model and categorize everyone into one side or another good and bad if you will. If your for masks, mandates, shots and lockdowns your the good if your against any of that or not for it your the bad guy. They managed to inject politics into the scenario because they had a ready made vessel already there so it was easy.
Excess deaths also include folks who were scared to go to the hospital and as a result got sicker and were not able to be helped once they went. Includes the additional opiate deaths we saw during the pandemic. Includes the additional suicides we saw during the pandemic. The excess murders we saw. I'm not saying the Covid numbers are right or wrong..........only that excess deaths include a lot more than just Covid deaths.
In addition, alzheimer's deaths spiked because of Covid, not necessarily a bad thing if you have had a relative die of alzheimer's. End stage kidney disease also saw a spike.........again, depending on your tolerance for watching ugly deaths, not necessarily a bad thing. And I know these last two are a controversial thought pattern, but having had a relative die of alzheimers and a friend of late stage kidney disease (too old for transplant). Watched many people die of late stage diabetes too during my 12 years working in a hospital; they start to chop off body parts as they die. Diabetes and Covid are a bad combination.
This whole idea of living as long as possible, dam* the consequences, is not my cup of tea. Just my thoughts on the subject.............
And I have noted here before.............the risk of an under 18 year old drowning is 3 1/2 times that of dying from or with Covid.
None of this suggests we shouldn't all get vaccinated, which I think we should. But, I have come to the point that the government should just stop at strongly encouraging vaccination and not go beyond that. Health care worker burn out has always been going on..........maybe a little more intensely now. Big issue now is Omicron causing people to miss work for a few days. But that should be a temporary phenomenon. Anti-Virals are being distributed as we speak and those along with other modalities of care as well as the majority of folks being vaccinated is a pretty decent set of tools to help people if they get really sick with Covid. We are in a very different place than we were 18 months ago.
To be fair it happens on both sides. Media outlets from AON to MSNBC have been caught fabricating stories and photos. Social media is the big culprit because you can post what you want. Today with the information available anyone can get information to support their theory. Hell I can link stories that claim to prove the earth is flat if I wanted. As crazy as that is.
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