There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines

[buckeyenole]

I said it before that it's all relative. If initial immunity from vaccines still lasted then we would be saying we don't know how long vaccine immunity lasts. You are not making a fair comparison.

And just because it hasn't met the standards of full approval doesn't indicate what we do and don't know.

Please explain, then, why it doesn't have full approval. You likely know there are both safety problems and efficacy problems, as well as concerns about long-term effects.

As it turns out, the 'vaccines' do little to prevent infection, and the 'vaccine' benefits are short term. It is much more accurate to call them 'therapeutics' than 'vaccines.' Both Pfizer and Modern admitted in their application for emergency use they didn't believe the 'vaccines' would significantly reduce infections or transmissibility of Covid. They only claimed the 'vaccines' would reduce hospitalizations and deaths.

Natural immunity, by comparison, is already demonstrated to be far superior to the 'vaccines' in every way. But it's just been the last 2-3 weeks that any of the major health organizations have even acknowledged natural immunity. Even then it's usually to dismiss it or to say "natural immunity has some benefit but you still "need to be up to date with your vaccinations."

 

[NoleSince1961]

Actually, no it hasn't. And Comirnaty has still not been released for use.

Exhibit 2,439 re: Why discussing vaccines on a sports message board is kind of comedic.
You really might want to consider getting your news from much better sources.

Fact check: Pfizer's FDA-approved vaccine is available in US

The authorization from the FDA changed, but the vaccine didn't. Comirnaty is simply the brand name for Pfizer's shot.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Dhersh]

Please explain, then, why it doesn't have full approval. You likely know there are both safety problems and efficacy problems, as well as concerns about long-term effects.

As it turns out, the 'vaccines' do little to prevent infection, and the 'vaccine' benefits are short term. It is much more accurate to call them 'therapeutics' than 'vaccines.' Both Pfizer and Modern admitted in their application for emergency use they didn't believe the 'vaccines' would significantly reduce infections or transmissibility of Covid. They only claimed the 'vaccines' would reduce hospitalizations and deaths.

Natural immunity, by comparison, is already demonstrated to be far superior to the 'vaccines' in every way. But it's just been the last 2-3 weeks that any of the major health organizations have even acknowledged natural immunity. Even then it's usually to dismiss it or to say "natural immunity has some benefit but you still "need to be up to date with your vaccinations."

Comirnaty does have full approval for ages 16 and up. If you can't come to grips with that then I respectfully decline to continue this conversation.

 

[PopsNole]

Comirnaty does have full approval for ages 16 and up. If you can't come to grips with that then I respectfully decline to continue this conversation.

OAN told me that most approved vaccines have a ribbon cutting ceremony in a tradition that goes back 50 years. This has not occurred with the vaccine so technically it's not fully approved and is evidence it was rushed.

 

[SteveT1]

Here is the thing Steve. There are studies that say as many as 30 percent of those who catch Covid get no immune response from the infection. There are studies that say that a person with natural immunity is many times more likely to contract Covid than someone who is fully faxed. There are far more that indicate vaccination immunity is better than natural immunity yet you latch onto the the ones that agree with your preconceived point of view. The idea that the only contrary study is the cdcs is preposterous.

Cdc just admitted that natural immunity provided more protection against infection than the vaccine. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/0...rts-but-vaccines-still-offer-the-best-defense

 

[PopsNole]

Cdc just admitted that natural immunity provided more protection against infection than the vaccine. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/0...rts-but-vaccines-still-offer-the-best-defense

This study had to do with Delta specifically. Alpha the vaccine was better. Delta prior infection was better with prior infection plus being vaccinated being the best protection. Nothing yet on Omicron.

 

[SteveT1]

This study had to do with Delta specifically. Alpha the vaccine was better. Delta prior infection was better with prior infection plus being vaccinated being the best protection. Nothing yet on Omicron.

The vaccine was better than natural immunity against Alpha? That doesn't make sense. Do you have a study for that? I'd love to see it. I'm not aware of a single confirmed case of reinfection with the Alpha variant.

Alpha has been irrelevant for some time. I think the current understanding of Omicron is the vaccine likely provides no immunity. Jury is out on whether natural immunity provides any protection from (re)infection with Omicron. Luckily it appears to be a mild variant.

 

[itsjustme0770]

I think the current understanding of Omicron is the vaccine likely provides no immunity.

80+ percent of the folks in the hospital are unvaccinated. So no, I don't think the current understanding is anything at all like this.

 

[GbrNole]

80+ percent of the folks in the hospital are unvaccinated. So no, I don't think the current understanding is anything at all like this.

in florida 74% of all current covid hospitalizations are age 50+. that age group collectively is 87% fully vaccinated and greater than 95% have had at least one dose.

 

[SteveT1]

80+ percent of the folks in the hospital are unvaccinated. So no, I don't think the current understanding is anything at all like this.

Referred to immunity. So yes, that is the current understanding.

 

[itsjustme0770]

Actually understanding the meaning of the word you are relying on is important.

From the Oxford Dictionary-

Immune: resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

Nowhere in the definition is that you cannot be infected.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

in florida 74% of all current covid hospitalizations are age 50+. that age group collectively is 87% fully vaccinated and greater than 95% have had at least one dose.

It’s all starting to burn out. The media and certain special interest groups will hate it. But I look forward to all of the silly debates coming to an end. Eventually America will look back on this whole chapter and vacillate between laughing and crying.

 

[chumleynole]

in florida 74% of all current covid hospitalizations are age 50+. that age group collectively is 87% fully vaccinated and greater than 95% have had at least one dose.

There are nearly 10 million people in Florida over the age of 45. Even if there is only a small percentage unvaccinated it is more than enough to account for the hospitalizations. I am not saying the poster you are responding to is correct but your post is meaningless without further statistical analysis. By the way the only people I know that died of the virus were unvaccinated and over 50.

 

[SteveT1]

Actually understanding the meaning of the word you are relying on is important.

From the Oxford Dictionary-

Immune: resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

Nowhere in the definition is that you cannot be infected.

The covid shots don’t confer immunity. “Resistant to . . . infection.” There is no resistance created by the vaccine against omicron infections.

 

[GbrNole]

There are nearly 10 million people in Florida over the age of 45. Even if there is only a small percentage unvaccinated it is more than enough to account for the hospitalizations. I am not saying the poster you are responding to is correct but your post is meaningless without further statistical analysis. By the way the only people I know that died of the virus were unvaccinated and over 50.

therein lies the rub. the granular data is under collected and rarely reported so we can only intimate before and after scenarios such as the data that existed before the vaccines were widely available (essentially before May 2021), the data pre-Delta and more recently the data during Omicron.

other than that the best we can do is pull comparative data from countries with similar covid policies and vaccination rates. i have pasted below the cumulative data for the last 3 weeks from the UK. this is their data for week ending january 16, 2022 and reported on january 20, 2022.

uk data	total cases	unvaxx	unvaxx %	total deaths	unvaxx	unvaxx %	total hosp	unvaxx	unvaxx %
<18	577,838	411,803	71.3	9	9	100.0	1,509	1,307	86.6
18-29	720,058	120,020	16.7	27	15	55.6	1,409	529	37.5
30-39	621,622	89,739	14.4	74	40	54.1	1,428	569	39.8
40-49	477,098	42,447	8.9	111	53	47.7	1,355	467	34.5
50-59	401,156	21,347	5.3	283	123	43.5	1,695	527	31.1
60-69	215,078	7,989	3.7	567	198	34.9	1,770	494	27.9
70-79	110,293	2,723	2.5	840	218	26.0	2,369	434	18.3
80+	60,423	1,683	2.8	1,982	359	18.1	3,477	425	12.2
	3,183,566	697,751	21.9	3,893	1,015	26.1	15,012	4,752	31.7

 

[itsjustme0770]

The covid shots don’t confer immunity. “Resistant to . . . infection.” There is no resistance created by the vaccine against omicron infections.

Thanks. Im done discussing this with someone who denies objective facts.

 

[SteveT1]

Thanks. Im done discussing this with someone who denies objective facts.

I’m following the science.

Actual definition of “immunity” from Merriam-Webster:
1medical : the power to keep yourself from being affected by a disease.
The covid shot does no such thing.

 

[Deerfuel2]

I’m following the science.

Actual definition of “immunity” from Merriam-Webster:
1medical : the power to keep yourself from being affected by a disease.
The covid shot does no such thing.

As more data becomes available, I expect we will see less posts trying to defend the vaccine being superior to natural immunity. I guess there will always be some folks that invested so much into the vaccine, that they will never be able to let it go. They will continue to try and perform vocabulary gymnastics, or simply fade away from the conversation.

 

[chumleynole]

As more data becomes available, I expect we will see less posts trying to defend the vaccine being superior to natural immunity. I guess there will always be some folks that invested so much into the vaccine, that they will never be able to let it go. They will continue to try and perform vocabulary gymnastics, or simply fade away from the conversation.

You know this natural immunity vaccination immunity discussion is a red herring created by the antivax crowd. I could care less which offers more protection. It is clear that vaccination offers additional protection whether you have natural immunity or not. The debate used to be vax versus unvaccinated but those against the vaccine have shifted the discussion which is a typical tactic for those losing the debate.

 

[SteveT1]

You know this natural immunity vaccination immunity discussion is a red herring created by the antivax crowd. I could care less which offers more protection. It is clear that vaccination offers additional protection whether you have natural immunity or not. The debate used to be vax versus unvaccinated but those against the vaccine have shifted the discussion which is a typical tactic for those losing the debate.

You literally argued that vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity. It’s not.

 

[chumleynole]

You literally argued that vaccine immunity is stronger than natural immunity. It’s not.

Please re read what I wrote and point out where I said that one was stronger than the other. I do not care which is stronger. I had the virus and recovered and have been vaccinated. What I will tell you is that I would not recommend catching the virus with no protection at all. I personally know of 3 unvaccinated people none over the age of 65 that contracted the virus and died. Natural immunity was not an option for them because you can only get that if you recover. I would recommend to everyone try using their research skills to form their opinions instead of using them to reinforce their beliefs.

 

[Deerfuel2]

You know this natural immunity vaccination immunity discussion is a red herring created by the antivax crowd. I could care less which offers more protection. It is clear that vaccination offers additional protection whether you have natural immunity or not. The debate used to be vax versus unvaccinated but those against the vaccine have shifted the discussion which is a typical tactic for those losing the debate.

If you were paying attention, most people that were talking about the not taking the vaccine were talking about the value of natural immunity in the same conversation. For the vast majority of older people, the vaccine is absolutely the best way to achieve some form of protection. For people that have had Covid, the value of a vaccine above that is so miniscule, it is irrelevant. Instead, the whole machine and their minions, completely devalued the people with natural immunity and continued to be fine with people losing their livelihoods and social freedom

 

[chumleynole]

If you were paying attention, most people that were talking about the not taking the vaccine were talking about the value of natural immunity in the same conversation. For the vast majority of older people, the vaccine is absolutely the best way to achieve some form of protection. For people that have had Covid, the value of a vaccine above that is so miniscule, it is irrelevant. Instead, the whole machine and their minions, completely devalued the people with natural immunity and continued to be fine with people losing their livelihoods and social freedom

I wrote previously that I had 3 friends that were unvaccinated and died from the virus. You have to recover to get natural immunity. I know of no one vaccinated that died from it or the virus. One died prior to the vaccination being available and two died after they could have been vaccinated. If there is a risk of death which clearly there is, it is not the best method to achieve immunity. Omicron may be different but I would never say that it would be beneficial in any way to contract it without some protection from vaccination or a previous infection. Getting vaccinated is very beneficial to your health outcome if infected. People who are against vaccination are promoting the idea that natural immunity is the way to go. Again this is a red herring argument used by those who oppose getting the shot.

 

[Deerfuel2]

I wrote previously that I had 3 friends that were unvaccinated and died from the virus. You have to recover to get natural immunity. I know of no one vaccinated that died from it or the virus. One died prior to the vaccination being available and two died after they could have been vaccinated. If there is a risk of death which clearly there is, it is not the best method to achieve immunity. Omicron may be different but I would never say that it would be beneficial in any way to contract it without some protection from vaccination or a previous infection. Getting vaccinated is very beneficial to your health outcome if infected. People who are against vaccination are promoting the idea that natural immunity is the way to go. Again this is a red herring argument used by those who oppose getting the shot.

I'm sorry about the loss of your friends. I lost 2 friends and almost lost 2 more. All unvaccinated. None of them received any real, early treatment from their doctors. Basically they were told to go home and rest, with some symptom treatment. If they couldn't beat it on their own, then come back and go to the hospital. That unfortunately is how many doctors approached treatment for all but the highest risk patients. None of my friends were ever prescribed Monoclonal antibodies, and they were available. The reliance on the vaccine by the medical community has contributed to loss of life. I don't dispute that the vaccine could have resulted in a better outcome for them, but the slow and reluctant attitude to treat them, cannot be overlooked.

 

[chumleynole]

I'm sorry about the loss of your friends. I lost 2 friends and almost lost 2 more. All unvaccinated. None of them received any real, early treatment from their doctors. Basically they were told to go home and rest, with some symptom treatment. If they couldn't beat it on their own, then come back and go to the hospital. That unfortunately is how many doctors approached treatment for all but the highest risk patients. None of my friends were ever prescribed Monoclonal antibodies, and they were available. The reliance on the vaccine by the medical community has contributed to loss of life. I don't dispute that the vaccine could have resulted in a better outcome for them, but the slow and reluctant attitude to treat them, cannot be overlooked.

Only one of the three I knew had comorbidities. No problem with the care they received. Simply ravaged their lungs and that was that.

 

[AllNoles]

You know this natural immunity vaccination immunity discussion is a red herring created by the antivax crowd. I could care less which offers more protection. It is clear that vaccination offers additional protection whether you have natural immunity or not. The debate used to be vax versus unvaccinated but those against the vaccine have shifted the discussion which is a typical tactic for those losing the debate.

It’s a hugely relevant distinction because the state has a much lower interest in forcing people to do something that protects themselves.

In the end it doesn’t matter. We will have gone though the 2-3 year cycle this kind of thing takes to run through populations. We tried to destroy the national and world economies for some reason, but it’s about to endemic stage and most of the shills even admit that now.

 

[GeddyLee09]

I wrote previously that I had 3 friends that were unvaccinated and died from the virus. You have to recover to get natural immunity. I know of no one vaccinated that died from it or the virus. One died prior to the vaccination being available and two died after they could have been vaccinated. If there is a risk of death which clearly there is, it is not the best method to achieve immunity. Omicron may be different but I would never say that it would be beneficial in any way to contract it without some protection from vaccination or a previous infection. Getting vaccinated is very beneficial to your health outcome if infected. People who are against vaccination are promoting the idea that natural immunity is the way to go. Again this is a red herring argument used by those who oppose getting the shot.

Getting vaccinated is very beneficial to your health outcome if infected.

How so exactly? Does it make you recover faster? Does it improve your O2 levels? Does it keep you off of a vent? Just wondering what benefits it provides.

 

[NoleSince1961]

It’s a hugely relevant distinction because the state has a much lower interest in forcing people to do something that protects themselves.

In the end it doesn’t matter. We will have gone though the 2-3 year cycle this kind of thing takes to run through populations. We tried to destroy the national and world economies for some reason, but it’s about to endemic stage and most of the shills even admit that now.

What? No US public health official or government leader from either administration that I’m aware of “tried to destroy the national and world economies for some reason”, and no matter what anybody’s stance is regarding the value of masks, social distancing, vaccination, vaccination mandates, etc, suggesting that our approach to this very real nearly 2-year pandemic was some nefarious conspiracy to ruin anybody’s economy is Q-level lunacy.
Sorry to call a spade a spade, but nobody genuinely interested in reasonable conversation or debate about Covid suggests that our approach to it was motivated by some interest in economic ruin. Yikes.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Getting vaccinated is very beneficial to your health outcome if infected.

How so exactly? Does it make you recover faster? Does it improve your O2 levels? Does it keep you off of a vent? Just wondering what benefits it provides.

How about significantly reducing the likelihood of you being hospitalized due to the impact of Covid (whether on its own or in conjunction with other ailments) and/or dying as a result, according to all credible statistics comparing vaxxed vs unvaxxed outcomes.
Is that not enough?

 

[GeddyLee09]

What? No US public health official or government leader from either administration that I’m aware of “tried to destroy the national and world economies for some reason”, and no matter what anybody’s stance is regarding the value of masks, social distancing, vaccination, vaccination mandates, etc, suggesting that our approach to this very real nearly 2-year pandemic was some nefarious conspiracy to ruin anybody’s economy is Q-level lunacy.
Sorry to call a spade a spade, but nobody genuinely interested in reasonable conversation or debate about Covid suggests that our approach to it was motivated by some interest in economic ruin. Yikes.

To say this was handled poorly throughout is the understatement of the century.

 

[GeddyLee09]

How about significantly reducing the likelihood of you being hospitalized due to the impact of Covid (whether on its own or in conjunction with other ailments) and/or dying as a result, according to all credible statistics comparing vaxxed vs unvaxxed outcomes.
Is that not enough?

Are there any people in the world without the shot that didnt get covid, get an asymptomatic case or had symptoms and recovered without severe illness?

 

[AllNoles]

What? No US public health official or government leader from either administration that I’m aware of “tried to destroy the national and world economies for some reason”, and no matter what anybody’s stance is regarding the value of masks, social distancing, vaccination, vaccination mandates, etc, suggesting that our approach to this very real nearly 2-year pandemic was some nefarious conspiracy to ruin anybody’s economy is Q-level lunacy.
Sorry to call a spade a spade, but nobody genuinely interested in reasonable conversation or debate about Covid suggests that our approach to it was motivated by some interest in economic ruin. Yikes.

I don’t see a conspiracy. I saw a ton of awful policy.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Are there any people in the world without the shot that didnt get covid, get an asymptomatic case or had symptoms and recovered without severe illness?

If you’re attempting to dispute the actual vax vs unvaxxed outcome stats, I’m missing whatever your point is here.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I don’t see a conspiracy. I saw a ton of awful policy.

But “tried to” clearly suggests deliberate intention

 

[NoleSince1961]

To say this was handled poorly throughout is the understatement of the century.

And to suggest that anybody “tried to destroy the national and world economies” remains ridiculously beyond mere hyperbole, regardless of anybody’s critiques of either administration’s handling of Covid.

 

[GeddyLee09]

And to suggest that anybody “tried to destroy the national and world economies” remains ridiculously beyond mere hyperbole, regardless of anybody’s critiques of either administration’s handling of Covid.

The economic outcomes of all this was a consequence of ill conceived policies throughout the pandemic.

 

[NoleSince1961]

The economic outcomes of all this was a consequence of ill conceived policies throughout the pandemic.

And still, no evidence whatsoever of any deliberate intent by anybody to destroy anybody’s economy. Sorry if that distinction eludes you. Carry on.

 

[GeddyLee09]

And still, no evidence whatsoever of any deliberate intent by anybody to destroy anybody’s economy. Sorry if that distinction eludes you. Carry on.

I didn't say deliberate attempt or intent. I said there was bad policy decisions. T

 

[GeddyLee09]

And still, no evidence whatsoever of any deliberate intent by anybody to destroy anybody’s economy. Sorry if that distinction eludes you. Carry on.

I didn't say deliberate intent, I said there was bad policy that had consequences. If any one person or group was so collectively stupid to make all these decisions on purpose well were in real trouble. Had to be an accident.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I didn't say deliberate attempt or intent. I said there was bad policy decisions. T

Lol, follow the convo. You were directly quoting my response to AllNoles which was all about his allegation that somebody “tried to” destroy national and world economies. Next topic.