ADVERTISEMENT

There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines

Status
Not open for further replies.
chumleynole said:
The notion that Covid deaths are being massively over counted has been thoroughly disproven. The excess death statistic exceeds the numbers attributed to Covid. Evidence to the contrary is only supported by anecdotal evidence which is being collated and distributed to those people who are susceptible to misinformation.
Click to expand...
Susceptible to misinformation. Lol. Come on. I can’t discuss this with someone who refuses to read CDC guidelines and realize the true count will never really be known—except it’s less than the number we’ve been fed.
“Anecdotal evidence.” You used exactly that in this thread to prove a point. A very left wing news station in south Florida dug out oddities of covid death counts in Palm Beach County through June or July 2020. I’m sure the suicides, poisonings, motorcycle accidents, etc. were removed from the count…
 
NoleSince1961 said:
Lol we’ve been through what before? You and a handful of similarly aligned posters continually posting speculative discredited nonsense without any credible citations that certainly appeals to likeminded members of your tribe but runs completely counter to excess death statistics and actual fact?
A small number of incorrect death attributions in either direction does not materially change Covid reality, and there are just as many speculative arguments for undercounts as overcounts.
Good luck though with your persistent attempts to downplay Covid’s actual impacts.
I’m sure that’ll bring people’s family members back and convince health care workers that their burnout was imagined.
Take care.
Click to expand...
Discredited? Hardly a right wing source. From July 2020. These deaths are still in the covid total. And the improper counting did not stop with this... but the news station did. Covid death count has never been of those who died from covid (there are many), but who died with covid, maybe had covid when they died, or died within 90 days of testing positive for covid. Public policy was shaped on faulty data created by nonsensical CDC guidelines. https://cbs12.com/amp/news/local/i-...y-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county
 
SteveT1 said:
Discredited? Hardly a right wing source. From July 2020. These deaths are still in the covid total. And the improper counting did not stop with this... but the news station did. Covid death count has never been of those who died from covid (there are many), but who died with covid, maybe had covid when they died, or died within 90 days of testing positive for covid. Public policy was shaped on faulty data created by nonsensical CDC guidelines. https://cbs12.com/amp/news/local/i-...y-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county
Click to expand...
The article you linked is from July 2020. Please provide corroboration for your assertion that “these deaths are still in the Covid total” as well as your 90 day nugget.
Here’s how Covid deaths are supposed to be determined: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
and there’s no legit reason to believe that the undercounts around the country (due to reasons not limited to those discussed in the USA Today article we dissected earlier), and overcounts don’t wash each other out.
Of course, you conveniently ignore the many credible sources that have identified multiple reasons for and cases of Covid death undercounts.

It’s immaterial at this point anyway.
Covid deaths are clearly a major portion of the large number of excess deaths that have coincided with the same time period as this pandemic.

You can find all the anecdotes of incorrect death certificates you want and it still won’t explain away hundreds of thousands of Covid deaths, with or without co-morbidities.

Of course, for all the cases where Covid merely hastened some already old and immunocompromised person’s death, you can send their family a note to let them know it really wasn’t such a bad thing after all and to quit whining.
Good night.
 
SteveT1 said:
Susceptible to misinformation. Lol. Come on. I can’t discuss this with someone who refuses to read CDC guidelines and realize the true count will never really be known—except it’s less than the number we’ve been fed.
“Anecdotal evidence.” You used exactly that in this thread to prove a point. A very left wing news station in south Florida dug out oddities of covid death counts in Palm Beach County through June or July 2020. I’m sure the suicides, poisonings, motorcycle accidents, etc. were removed from the count…
Click to expand...
I gave an example of disinformation. I did not not use this single example to draw any conclusions. You are right that there is never going to be an exact number of deaths associated with Covid. Decades from now it will still be a topic for discussion. However they will eventually come to a consensus of an approximation. That number will exceed the currently reported number. Eventually the ones disputing it will move on to their great reward and that number will be what goes down in the history books. There is not an exact count of the deaths attributed to flu every year. Covid is counted much more rigorously than the flu.
 
NoleSince1961 said:
The article you linked is from July 2020. Please provide corroboration for your assertion that “these deaths are still in the Covid total” as well as your 90 day nugget.
Here’s how Covid deaths are supposed to be determined: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf
and there’s no legit reason to believe that the undercounts around the country (due to reasons not limited to those discussed in the USA Today article we dissected earlier), and overcounts don’t wash each other out.
Of course, you conveniently ignore the many credible sources that have identified multiple reasons for and cases of Covid death undercounts.

It’s immaterial at this point anyway.
Covid deaths are clearly a major portion of the large number of excess deaths that have coincided with the same time period as this pandemic.

You can find all the anecdotes of incorrect death certificates you want and it still won’t explain away hundreds of thousands of Covid deaths, with or without co-morbidities.

Of course, for all the cases where Covid merely hastened some already old and immunocompromised person’s death, you can send their family a note to let them know it really wasn’t such a bad thing after all and to quit whining.
Good night.
Click to expand...
"Covid merely hastened some already old and immunocompromised person’s death"

Interesting. Please go on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom
fsufool said:
Excess deaths also include folks who were scared to go to the hospital and as a result got sicker and were not able to be helped once they went. Includes the additional opiate deaths we saw during the pandemic. Includes the additional suicides we saw during the pandemic. The excess murders we saw. I'm not saying the Covid numbers are right or wrong..........only that excess deaths include a lot more than just Covid deaths.

In addition, alzheimer's deaths spiked because of Covid, not necessarily a bad thing if you have had a relative die of alzheimer's. End stage kidney disease also saw a spike.........again, depending on your tolerance for watching ugly deaths, not necessarily a bad thing. And I know these last two are a controversial thought pattern, but having had a relative die of alzheimers and a friend of late stage kidney disease (too old for transplant). Watched many people die of late stage diabetes too during my 12 years working in a hospital; they start to chop off body parts as they die. Diabetes and Covid are a bad combination.

This whole idea of living as long as possible, dam* the consequences, is not my cup of tea. Just my thoughts on the subject.............

And I have noted here before.............the risk of an under 18 year old drowning is 3 1/2 times that of dying from or with Covid.

None of this suggests we shouldn't all get vaccinated, which I think we should. But, I have come to the point that the government should just stop at strongly encouraging vaccination and not go beyond that. Health care worker burn out has always been going on..........maybe a little more intensely now. Big issue now is Omicron causing people to miss work for a few days. But that should be a temporary phenomenon. Anti-Virals are being distributed as we speak and those along with other modalities of care as well as the majority of folks being vaccinated is a pretty decent set of tools to help people if they get really sick with Covid. We are in a very different place than we were 18 months ago.
Click to expand...
I get that there are factors other than covid in the excess death totals. I just do not believe they are statistically significant. I am willing to let the dust settle but I do have an opinion on what the final numbers will tell us.
 
SteveT1 said:
Discredited? Hardly a right wing source. From July 2020. These deaths are still in the covid total. And the improper counting did not stop with this... but the news station did. Covid death count has never been of those who died from covid (there are many), but who died with covid, maybe had covid when they died, or died within 90 days of testing positive for covid. Public policy was shaped on faulty data created by nonsensical CDC guidelines. https://cbs12.com/amp/news/local/i-...y-attributed-to-covid-19-in-palm-beach-county
Click to expand...
Here’s one of approximately a gazillion articles/explanations you can easily find via Google debunking the partisan fallacy that Covid death counts are inflated.
And no, I don’t expect anybody so invested in casting doubt on pre-Omicron Covid’s actual severity to suddenly see the light, but we all know these debates are futile anyway, and they won’t bring back the dead or cure the longhaulers or anything else.
www.scientificamerican.com

Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated

President Trump and other conspiracy fantasists touted the fake claim that COVID death counts are exaggerated. But three kinds of evidence point to more than 350,000 deaths*
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: chumleynole
Back to vaccines 🙃

For anyone interested, Pfizer started clinical trials for their Omicron vaccine.
 
89nole said:
I saw that. How long do you think until distribution?
Click to expand...
I don't feel comfortable taking a guess on the timeline, but hopefully those who need it can get it sooner rather than later!
 
If the death certificate reports terms such as “probable COVID-19” or “likely COVID-19,” these terms would be assigned the new ICD code. It Is not likely that NCHS will follow up on these cases.


When COVID is reported as a cause of death — or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation.

www.chicagotribune.com

Column: COVID-caused deaths versus COVID-related deaths: ‘It’s unquestionably complicated’

COVID-19 is a deadly virus, but should it be listed as a primary or possible cause of death on every COVID-related death? “People want a clear answer, a black and white answer, about this iss…
www.chicagotribune.com www.chicagotribune.com

When determining whether covid-as-cause-of-death was "probable" or "presumed," early CDC guidance (which I cannot find on the CDC website now) said any of the factors--without a covid positive print--should be considered a covid presumed death:

(a) 2 or more covid symptoms (influenza-like illness)
(b) contact with a person carrying covid + an influenza-like symptom
(c) deceased recently visited an area with an outbreak and had an influenza-like symptom

I am hoping to track down that guidance, find out if it was changed (one article I posted the other night suggests it was changed--but I can't confirm. If it was, that's great, and the numbers would be far more reliable), and what the new guidance for listing covid as a presumed or probable cause of death. The tribune article above suggests that people are still being classified as covid deaths when they die *with* covid. That contradicts the article I posted the other night.
 
SteveT1 said:
If the death certificate reports terms such as “probable COVID-19” or “likely COVID-19,” these terms would be assigned the new ICD code. It Is not likely that NCHS will follow up on these cases.


When COVID is reported as a cause of death — or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation.

www.chicagotribune.com

Column: COVID-caused deaths versus COVID-related deaths: ‘It’s unquestionably complicated’

COVID-19 is a deadly virus, but should it be listed as a primary or possible cause of death on every COVID-related death? “People want a clear answer, a black and white answer, about this iss…
www.chicagotribune.com www.chicagotribune.com

When determining whether covid-as-cause-of-death was "probable" or "presumed," early CDC guidance (which I cannot find on the CDC website now) said any of the factors--without a covid positive print--should be considered a covid presumed death:

(a) 2 or more covid symptoms (influenza-like illness)
(b) contact with a person carrying covid + an influenza-like symptom
(c) deceased recently visited an area with an outbreak and had an influenza-like symptom

I am hoping to track down that guidance, find out if it was changed (one article I posted the other night suggests it was changed--but I can't confirm. If it was, that's great, and the numbers would be far more reliable), and what the new guidance for listing covid as a presumed or probable cause of death. The tribune article above suggests that people are still being classified as covid deaths when they die *with* covid. That contradicts the article I posted the other night.
Click to expand...
Go get ‘em!
And as you continue diligently chasing down that pesky “true” count of Covid deaths, with appropriate asterisks for each one that involved multiple possible contributors so that the reader can make his/her own assessment about how cool or not cool we should be with them dying when and how they did, please don’t forget to net all the overcounts and undercounts.

Here’s some possible help with where to start your investigation of the undercounts.
www.statnews.com

Undercounting of Covid-19 deaths is greatest in pro-Trump areas, analysis shows

The analysis suggests that political leanings have helped suppress the true scale of Covid-19 deaths. In cases where the deceased didn’t have a Covid-19 test, a coroner or medical examiner has the freedom to interpret symptoms.
www.statnews.com www.statnews.com

Then you can compare your final net adjusted “with Covid” + “from Covid” deaths to overall excess deaths, explain any gaps, and submit your final findings to DORBUL (Dept Of Reviews By Unqualified Laypeople) and await your badge and certificate of achievement.

Best of luck!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buck-I-Nole
NoleSince1961 said:
Go get ‘em!
And as you continue diligently chasing down that pesky “true” count of Covid deaths, with appropriate asterisks for each one that involved multiple possible contributors so that the reader can make his/her own assessment about how cool or not cool we should be with them dying when and how they did, please don’t forget to net all the overcounts and undercounts.

Here’s some possible help with where to start your investigation of the undercounts.
www.statnews.com

Undercounting of Covid-19 deaths is greatest in pro-Trump areas, analysis shows

The analysis suggests that political leanings have helped suppress the true scale of Covid-19 deaths. In cases where the deceased didn’t have a Covid-19 test, a coroner or medical examiner has the freedom to interpret symptoms.
www.statnews.com www.statnews.com

Then you can compare your final net adjusted “with Covid” + “from Covid” deaths to overall excess deaths, explain any gaps, and submit your final findings to DORBUL (Dept Of Reviews By Unqualified Laypeople) and await your badge and certificate of achievement.

Best of luck!
Click to expand...
It would be interesting to see the numbers on deaths with covid and deaths from covid probable, presumed or confirmed. But also see how these numbers match up with the numbers of excess deaths during the pandemic. These excess deaths have to be contributed to something even if its suicides, drugs or covid. That many extra people just didn't die for no reason. But I would also like to see how many were really infected, I would think the true numbers are far higher than we suspect.
 
GeddyLee09 said:
It would be interesting to see the numbers on deaths with covid and deaths from covid probable, presumed or confirmed. But also see how these numbers match up with the numbers of excess deaths during the pandemic. These excess deaths have to be contributed to something even if its suicides, drugs or covid. That many extra people just didn't die for no reason. But I would also like to see how many were really infected, I would think the true numbers are far higher than we suspect.
Click to expand...
Read a study, I think from Utah, that found about 1/3rd excess deaths were non-direct Covid issues.
 
I had Covid last week. I would like to personally thank the vaccine for allowing me to keep my taste because I was bored in quarantine and smoked a brisket and made smoked french onion soup and over the top smoked chili and that would have been a significant waste of food otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChiefWB and Dhersh
PopsNole said:
I had Covid last week. I would like to personally thank the vaccine for allowing me to keep my taste because I was bored in quarantine and smoked a brisket and made smoked french onion soup and over the top smoked chili and that would have been a significant waste of food otherwise.
Click to expand...
Seeing lots of folks now not losing taste and smell with this variant. With and without shots. Wonder how it affects the severity of those symptoms.
 
PopsNole said:
I had Covid last week. I would like to personally thank the vaccine for allowing me to keep my taste because I was bored in quarantine and smoked a brisket and made smoked french onion soup and over the top smoked chili and that would have been a significant waste of food otherwise.
Click to expand...
Just curious:
Did you have any symptoms? If so, what where they?
Why did you get tested?
Antigen or PCR test?

Thanks in advance.
 
fsufool said:
Just curious:
Did you have any symptoms? If so, what where they?
Why did you get tested?
Antigen or PCR test?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Sore throat. Generally tired. Some congestion. It was like a normal cold. Honestly, if it wasn't actually Covid-19 I would have gone to work, closed my office door and worn a mask when walking around.

My wife had it as well. She felt awful for a 1/2 day but was fine otherwise. She got it from her friend whom could barely get up for about a week after testing positive. It's been 8 days for her and she still doesn't feel well. We've been taking her soup for a week.

My wife started feeling poorly last Monday and tested positive on Tuesday. I tested negative on Tuesday but started having symptoms that day as well. I knew I had it. I didn't test again until Thursday (antigen test) and it immediately lit up positive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GbrNole
GeddyLee09 said:
Seeing lots of folks now not losing taste and smell with this variant. With and without shots. Wonder how it affects the severity of those symptoms.
Click to expand...
My co-worker is vaccinated. She lost taste for about a week earlier in January. Think it's just person specific. I have some friends that always lose taste when they get a bad cold so they're probably prone to it to begin with.
 
PopsNole said:
Sore throat. Generally tired. Some congestion. It was like a normal cold. Honestly, if it wasn't actually Covid-19 I would have gone to work, closed my office door and worn a mask when walking around.

My wife had it as well. She felt awful for a 1/2 day but was fine otherwise. She got it from her friend whom could barely get up for about a week after testing positive. It's been 8 days for her and she still doesn't feel well. We've been taking her soup for a week.

My wife started feeling poorly last Monday and tested positive on Tuesday. I tested negative on Tuesday but started having symptoms that day as well. I knew I had it. I didn't test again until Thursday (antigen test) and it immediately lit up positive.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Back in December I got a cold from my wife. She got tested and was negative, so I didn't bother. Then a couple weeks later I and my son got a stomach virus. I got guilted into getting tested and was negative (no respiratory symptoms). Both tests were PCR tests.
Just curious what symptoms people have for Omicron.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GbrNole
fsufool said:
Thanks. Back in December I got a cold from my wife. She got tested and was negative, so I didn't bother. Then a couple weeks later I and my son got a stomach virus. I got guilted into getting tested and was negative (no respiratory symptoms). Both tests were PCR tests.
Just curious what symptoms people have for Omicron.
Click to expand...
I still don't get why people continue to get tested. Unless its a requirement for work or your going to the hospital what's the point? I was at the doctors last week and overheard (she was yelling) a lady asking to be tested, the doctor kept asking her what was wrong and her symptoms. She just kept telling him she needed a test. He said first you have to decide if your sick or not, if you are then decide what's wrong and let me know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F4Gary, GbrNole and fsufool
PopsNole said:
I had Covid last week. I would like to personally thank the vaccine for allowing me to keep my taste because I was bored in quarantine and smoked a brisket and made smoked french onion soup and over the top smoked chili and that would have been a significant waste of food otherwise.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you didn't have a more severe case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 89nole and GbrNole
GeddyLee09 said:
I still don't get why people continue to get tested. Unless its a requirement for work or your going to the hospital what's the point? I was at the doctors last week and overheard (she was yelling) a lady asking to be tested, the doctor kept asking her what was wrong and her symptoms. She just kept telling him she needed a test. He said first you have to decide if your sick or not, if you are then decide what's wrong and let me know.
Click to expand...
I was going to quarantine anyhow so didn't matter if I tested but if it's coming back positive can let you know to stay away from those that are elderly or immunocompromised.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GbrNole and ChiefWB
Couple of facts:

The US is the only country in the world that doesn't recognize "Natural Immunity from catching Covid" Refers them as just being unvaccinated. hmm?

Follow the money and where it comes from when it concerns the vaccine.

For those that have never had Covid should get vaccinated.
 
trunole1 said:
Couple of facts:

The US is the only country in the world that doesn't recognize "Natural Immunity from catching Covid" Refers them as just being unvaccinated. hmm?

Follow the money and where it comes from when it concerns the vaccine.

For those that have never had Covid should get vaccinated.
Click to expand...
When you say “facts”, do you actually mean “things I’d like to present as irrefutable truths even when they are not”?

Please provide evidence corroborating your claim that the US is the only country in the world that does not recognize natural immunity.

The actual fact that the UK does not currently accept natural immunity as proof of vaccination status certainly appears (among other examples) to contradict your “fact”.

Excerpt - “Natural immunity
Proof of natural immunity will not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test.”

Per -
www.gov.uk

[Withdrawn] Travel to England from another country – COVID-19 rules

Check if there are any COVID-19 rules in place for travel to England from abroad.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
Last edited:
NoleSince1961 said:
When you say “facts”, do you actually mean “things I’d like to present as irrefutable truths even when they are not”?

Please provide evidence corroborating your claim that the US is the only country in the world that does not recognize natural immunity.

The actual fact that the UK does not currently accept natural immunity as proof of vaccination status certainly appears (among other examples) to contradict your “fact”.

Excerpt - “Natural immunity
Proof of natural immunity will not be accepted as an alternative to proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test.”

Per -
www.gov.uk

[Withdrawn] Travel to England from another country – COVID-19 rules

Check if there are any COVID-19 rules in place for travel to England from abroad.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
I don't consider the UK a country because the Act of Union from 1801 was invalid based on a litany of procedural issues IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buck-I-Nole and NoleSince1961
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D

my most sincere Holiday wishes..

Replies
16
Views
934
Everything But Sports
misswebbsilverchief
misswebbsilverchief
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back