Vote or Die!

[seminole97]

Who is discouraging legal voting? How? The fewer barriers to voting means more people vote. You all just don't like it because you think every additional vote will be against your ideals. Why do you think that?

Because Bastiat had it more right than wrong:

As, on the one hand, it is certain that we all address some such request to the state, and, on the other hand, it is a well-established fact that the state cannot procure satisfaction for some without adding to the labor of others, while awaiting another definition of the state, I believe myself entitled to give my own here. Who knows if it will not carry off the prize? Here it is: The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else.

 

[seminole97]

Sure we can talk about that. FL took 3 WEEKS to declare a winner and then the conservative memebers of the SC stopped a recount. Gore then conceded without making claims that the election was a fraud. Even though it was obviously a political move to prevent him from winning.
Because he didn't cry 'fraud' no one else did until Trump.

Seems like me and NYT can remember some denying of election results:

Today, for nearly 20 minutes in the cavernous House chamber, a dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus, joined by a few sympathizers, tried in vain to block the counting of Florida's 25 electoral votes, protesting that black voters had been disenfranchised.
…
Black lawmakers defiantly declared at a news conference outside the House chamber that they did not consider Mr. Bush the legitimate president, invoking the civil rights struggle and citing a variety of complaints about voting irregularities in Florida.

''There is overwhelming evidence that George W. Bush did not win this election either by national popular vote or the Florida popular vote,'' said Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, a Texas Democrat who is the new president of the Congressional Black Caucus.
…
Representative Alcee L. Hastings, a Florida Democrat, was the first to object, speaking of ''overwhelming evidence of official misconduct'' before Mr. Gore gaveled him down because of lack of support from a senator.

 

[MagNoleA]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the Ice.
Dr. Sydney Friedman, MASH

 

[BelemNole]

Seems like me and NYT can remember some denying of election results:

Today, for nearly 20 minutes in the cavernous House chamber, a dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus, joined by a few sympathizers, tried in vain to block the counting of Florida's 25 electoral votes, protesting that black voters had been disenfranchised.
…
Black lawmakers defiantly declared at a news conference outside the House chamber that they did not consider Mr. Bush the legitimate president, invoking the civil rights struggle and citing a variety of complaints about voting irregularities in Florida.

''There is overwhelming evidence that George W. Bush did not win this election either by national popular vote or the Florida popular vote,'' said Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, a Texas Democrat who is the new president of the Congressional Black Caucus.
…
Representative Alcee L. Hastings, a Florida Democrat, was the first to object, speaking of ''overwhelming evidence of official misconduct'' before Mr. Gore gaveled him down because of lack of support from a senator.

Who gaveled him down?
They were right, there was shenanigans in florida. But we'll never know who really won at this point. But look how gore handled that. Contrast that with the GOP today (Lake, Trump, etc) who all start screaming 'fraud' even before the votes are counted.

 

[BelemNole]

I grew up in a very modest blue collar home. I was the first person in my family to go to college.
Privileged youth? That’s hysterical.

Stop being obtuse. You married someone who played in the NFL and parlayed that into a high paying job. You might have been middle class as a child but you were living better than most right out of school.
But I forget, every boomer walked 5 miles up hill in the snow both ways.

 

[seminole97]

But we'll never know who really won at this point.

TIL Belem is an election denier.

 

[BelemNole]

TIL Belem is an election denier.

How so? I don't deny that Dubya was the winner or was president. I have no idea what the recount would have shown had it been allowed to carry on.

 

[NoleSince1961]

That’s as an adult. Privilege needs to be dropped from the lexicon. Gonna count her husband dying relatively young too?

Not inserting myself into any discussion of posters’ marriages and personal situations, but just in response to your suggestion that “Privilege needs to be dropped from the lexicon.”…
no, it does not. I’m assuming the underlying trigger for any assertion like that is the personal affront so many folks to the right of center complain of whenever the term “privilege”, and especially “white privilege”, is uttered by anybody.
There’s no need to drop “privilege” from the lexicon. There’s simply the need for its objectors to exercise the 7 nanoparticles of brain matter required to understand what the word actually means and doesn’t mean, based on the context in which it’s used.
Maybe inconvenient for some, but certainly not difficult at all.

 

[NoleSince1961]

CNN analyst Areva Martin accused radio host David Webb of 'white privilege.' Webb is black

CNN analyst Areva Martin said Fox News contributor David Webb benefits from 'white privilege.' Webb's response: 'I'm black.'

www.usatoday.com

This isn’t a right of center issue. It’s a some people on the left are racist issue. And the privilege rhetoric makes it easy for them to be so. People on the left use it as a weapon. We need to remove -race- plus a pejorative modifier. that this is somehow a right wing position is crazy land.

Lol sure, since you found an occurrence of somebody faceplanting while using the white privilege term, and some people weaponize it, that means it shouldn’t be used. I’m sure you apply that same “logic” to all terms that anybody misuses.
Woke and snowflake and social justice warrior probably up there at the top your words/terms to be removed, no doubt, especially since they're almost purely pejorative, as opposed to white privilege.
Carry on.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Priv in common use is almost purely pejorative as is woke now. Both had different use cases. So what?

Nope, “privilege” in this context is primarily used to explain the very real situation where someone in a demographic majority position for whom their ethnicity (as one example) is not a daily obstacle has the “privilege” not to face the hurdles of (and in some cases speaks dismissively or otherwise fails to acknowledge/empathize with) the genuine disadvantage(s)/injustice(s) experienced by the minority.
Privilege in this context is NOT about anybody’s personal accomplishments or wealth or family status but about their ethnic or other demographic group.

A wealthy black person can discuss the existence of “white privilege” with just as much authority and legitimacy as a homeless black person, and “white privilege” even applies to whites in mobile homes in Appalachia, at least to the extent that they can walk into a store or other situation, wearing similar clothing to a black person and be less likely to be met with the same degree of suspicion and negative presumptions, due merely to skin color.
There are plenty of studies proving this to be true, in a wide variety of areas - retail, medical care, apartment rental offices, job recruiters, etc etc

There’s nothing inherently pejorative about that “privilege” sociological term, although some can use it more pejoratively.

“Woke” on the other hand has devolved from a word that was originally used in a positive sense (in the black community) but which white conservatives have co-opted and almost completely converted into nothing but a mocking insult.

How "woke" became weaponized in the culture wars | USAPP

The term "woke" has its roots in Black culture but has since been removed from this origin and been co-opted a symbol by those who push back against social

blogs.lse.ac.uk

 

[seminole97]

How so? I don't deny that Dubya was the winner or was president.

Which contradicts, “we'll never know who really won at this point.”

If I told you, “we’ll never know who really won the 2020 election at this point,” that’s denying the result.

BTW, NYT reviewed the ballots with some other news organizations and printed their results in Nov 2001:

The comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots solidifies George W. Bush's legal claim on the White House because it concludes that he would have won under the ground rules prescribed by the Democrats.

 

[NoleSince1961]

I understand the academic concept, and intersectionality. It leads to people thinking about race first. It is making racism worse, not better. This is not a right wing critique. It’s classical liberalism versus modern progressive.

View embedded media

And white people thinking there’s no need to recognize and address issues of race, and that doing so is “racist” (lol) is yet another example of white privilege.
That remains true no matter how many black outliers like Candace Owens or Larry Elder say things that make less “woke” whites feel better about themselves and more confident in their dismissal and mocking of “woke” SJWs.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Also, you are a far leftist. Just sayin.

That’s hilarious. I said that you’re not a “centrist”, since you clearly are not, so like a friggin’ 12yo you come back with that clever “far leftist” zinger.
My voting record says otherwise, as do nearly all my beliefs.
But feel free to list all the clues that led you to the “far leftist” label, other than you not being a fan.
Do you think understanding that systemic racial and other forms of societal inequality/injustice are real things we shouldn’t shy away from addressing is only the purview of the far left?
Buy a clue man.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Depends on if democrats are counting or republicans.

That's quite the centrist position.

 

[NoleSince1961]

You are deluding yourself. A far leftist calling me right wing doesn’t bother me. Your frame of reference is borked. The problem here is your thought process is all f’d up.

Cool, again, use your words. Tell me specifically what makes me a “far leftist” in your better-calibrated understanding of political affiliation in America.

 

[NoleSince1961]

No one said that. But the message should be don’t judge a book by its cover, and treat everyone as an individual. The message that reaches the common person should be that. Not the intersectional nightmare of grievance studies.

I didn’t quote Owens nor elder. I provided a link to mcwhorter, a linguist professor at Columbia.

Nuance doesn’t seem like your thing, but McWhorter actually shares a lot of my heartburn with Robin DiAngelo’s much farther left and more broadbrushingly accusatory and demanding positions in her White Fragility book.

McWhorter does not dismiss that racial inequalities exist and need to be addressed rather than swept under the rug, but he does take issue, as I do, with some of the more extreme proclamations of DiAngelo about what we (primarily whites) need to do next.
Nuance is key.

Per McWhorter: “As such, a major bugbear for DiAngelo is the white American, often of modest education, who makes statements like I don’t see color or asks questions like How dare you call me “racist”? Her assumption that all people have a racist bias is reasonable—science has demonstrated it. The problem is what DiAngelo thinks must follow as the result of it.”

 

[MagNoleA]

I grew up in a very modest blue collar home. I was the first person in my family to go to college.
Privileged youth? That’s hysterical.

Meanwhile, the Noles are heading to a very good early signing recruiting result.
The Prince of Bel Air

 

[Dodinole]

Too many vagaries around early voting, mail-in voting and all of the rest.

With all of the technology that enables banks and credit card companies to ACCURATELY handle hundreds of millions of transactions EVERY SINGLE DAY, it's crazy to me that the states still use a host of disparate systems that often lead to delayed and disputed results.

Sadly, there is a reason for the delays in vote counting that has nothing to do with technology. It is high time for a bi-partisan house cleaning in American elections and spending restrictions placed on every single member of Congress.

 

[Dodinole]

And I think a voter should have to show ID and have to go physically vote unless mobility or military assignment prevent one from doing that.

In Tennessee an absentee ballot is allowed but requires a government picture ID and a signed affidavit, along with two witnesses verifying your identity and providing proof of their own identity.

 

[Dodinole]

I'm not sure the DL thing would work based on not everyone driving but I think everyone should have ID to vote that validates citizenship. If that means a voter ID or state Id card that's fine. There should be 1 ID for your state and everything can be linked to it like DL, voting and even conceal carry permits ect... Mail in ballots should be reserved for out of country folks that can vote like military or foreign service workers. Whatever system you use doesn't matter as long as you can count the votes. Just because there isn't widespread fraud that we know of doesn't mean the system cant be improved.

You need a photo ID to live a day to day life In this country. Try buying a can of spray paint at your local hardware store.

 

[BelemNole]

You need a photo ID to live a day to day life In this country. Try buying a can of spray paint at your local hardware store.

I've shown my ID maybe once in the past 6 months. At the doctor's office when I took my kid in.
I don't know what you're doing every day but it sounds terrible.

 

[BelemNole]

Which contradicts, “we'll never know who really won at this point.”

If I told you, “we’ll never know who really won the 2020 election at this point,” that’s denying the result.

BTW, NYT reviewed the ballots with some other news organizations and printed their results in Nov 2001:

The comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots solidifies George W. Bush's legal claim on the White House because it concludes that he would have won under the ground rules prescribed by the Democrats.

That's stupid on it's face. I believe Lane Fenner caught the ball in bounds. I recognize that UF won the game.

 

[seminole97]

That's stupid on its face. I believe Lane Fenner caught the ball in bounds. I recognize that UF won the game.

Why don’t you say, “we’ll never really know who won the game at this point?”
Or would that be stupid on its face?

 

[BelemNole]

Why don’t you say, “we’ll never really know who won the game at this point?”
Or would that be stupid on its face?

Because the catch was in the last 20 seconds of the game. We know who would have won if the ref got the call right. He didn't. Gators won.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

I've shown my ID maybe once in the past 6 months. At the doctor's office when I took my kid in.
I don't know what you're doing every day but it sounds terrible.

Sounds like you don't fly, check into hotels, sign legal documents, or make significant financial transactions. That actually adds up perfectly, and explains a lot.

 

[BelemNole]

Sounds like you don't fly, check into hotels, sign legal documents, or make significant financial transactions. That actually adds up perfectly, and explains a lot.

Correct, I'm not a salesman.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

Correct, I'm not a salesman.

What do you do, if I may ask?

 

[BelemNole]

What do you do, if I may ask?

I work for a consulting firm.

 

[surfnole]

I argued race plus a pejorative is bad.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 You mean like white trash?

Question: Can white trash also have white privilege?

This would be a fun rabbit hole to run but the thread would be likely be locked.

 

[BrainVision]

Question: Can white trash also have white privilege?

Yes, of course, they can.

 

[FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 You mean like white trash?

Question: Can white trash also have white privilege?

This would be a fun rabbit hole to run but the thread would be likely be locked.

LOL. Of course.....it is their "privilege" to prop up the crowd that neither works nor pays taxes.

 

[BrainVision]

LOL. Of course.....it is their "privilege" to prop up the crowd that neither works nor pays taxes.

Are you under the impression that white people do not comprise the overwhelming majority of the recipients of social safety net benefits?

 

[NoleSince1961]

LOL. Of course.....it is their "privilege" to prop up the crowd that neither works nor pays taxes.

Hmmmm, where could you possibly have gotten your misconception that, chuckle chuckle, it’s obviously some nonwhite crowd that whites need to prop up.
Not surprising at all.

Trump Thought Only Black People Were on Welfare

President Donald Trump is apparently unaware that not all—in fact, the vast majority—of welfare recipients are not black, according to a new report.

www.newsweek.com

 

[NoleSince1961]

Here’s an example of you parroting far left arguments.

In response to a post in which I linked a book by a center left professor that I explained agreeing with. You went right after the Candace Owens diatribe. No one brought her up but you. Her arguments aren’t referenced. But you’ve just got to punch that “bigot” button. That’s far left.

Holy crap you are seriously delusional or way way farther right than you claim (or both) if you think only far leftists can and do push back on someone (you) suggesting that the term “privilege” needs to be removed from the lexicon and your other commentary dismissive of the ugliness of systemic racism.

 

[noletaire]

you’ve just got to punch that “bigot” button. That’s far left.

Its the best play in play book. And the second oldest trick around. You disagree, then your character is the next target. Discredit the person character=discredit their position. If only we had some Ivy League dudes to solve our nation's problems like "systemic failure".... you know some real "whiz kids"... they did a great job with the Vietnam War... why not use them to tackle the challenges of the 21st century?? (LMFAO).

Systemic injustice, terminology, abortion, cancel culture, gender, etc.= all issues to divide and conquer so the real skullduggery can continue... They're all just smokescreens... hell, even Harvard grads swallow it hook, line and sinker.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Its the best play in play book. And the second oldest trick around. You disagree, then your character is the next target. Discredit the person character=discredit their position. If only we had some Ivy League dudes to solve our nation's problems like "systemic failure".... you know some real "whiz kids"... they did a great job with the Vietnam War... why not use them to tackle the challenges of the 21st century?? (LMFAO).

Systemic injustice, terminology, abortion, cancel culture, gender, etc.= all issues to divide and conquer so the real skullduggery can continue... They're all just smokescreens... hell, even Harvard grads swallow it hook, line and sinker.

I love how you and JHN/FWTS and several others love to throw in these scary but never spelled out references to the “real skullduggery” and what we all know “is really going on” but never have the gonads or the sane factual basis upon which to spell out whatever evil shenanigans it is we’re scheming with all the other global elitists to deflect attention from.
Looneytunes. Hilarious.
Hook, line and sinker? Maybe buy a mirror.

 

[NoleSince1961]

Peggy McIntosh - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

This is a prominent modern source of “privilege” rhetoric/concept space. If you’re using terms like privilege, whiteness, cisgender, etc, it is a far left source and concept space. You may not be aware of it. But, it’s embedded within underlying theory associated with it, eg intersectionality, the power dynamics of every interaction, etc. doesn’t make it necessarily wrong or bad. But, it’s the source.

Irrelevant. If you seriously pigeonhole people based on the origin of words they use (which you are doing in this and the other thread, pending however you edit your original comments) rather than their current use and the context in which the speaker is using them, then you’ve got life challenges nobody on any message board can resolve.

As just one example, “woke” originated in the nonwhite community as a positive attribute, but has been usurped primarily by right wingers to mock the SJWs. We’d be foolish to categorize anybody who uses the “woke” term now as a liberal based on how it originated.

 

[noletaire]

I love how you and JHN/FWTS and several others love to throw in these scary but never spelled out references to the “real skullduggery” and what we all know “is really going on” but never have the gonads or the sane factual basis upon which to spell out whatever evil shenanigans it is we’re scheming with all the other global elitists to deflect attention from.
Looneytunes. Hilarious.
Hook, line and sinker? Maybe buy a mirror.

You failed to understand my post and I'm not saying that to be sarcastic.

Ok, I'll spin the wheel: Who is the "we're" your referring to? The Democratic Party, the "Left"??

 

[NoleSince1961]

You failed to understand my post and I'm not saying that to be sarcastic.

Ok, I'll spin the wheel: Who is the "we're" your referring to? The Democratic Party, the "Left"??

Nope. Didn’t fail to understand your insightful post, beyond the question I asked and you weakly deflected away from answering.

What exactly is this “real skullduggery” that we Harvard grads (you and your special friend JHN/FWTS keep inserting that nugget as if it’s some clever insult… obsess much?) are supposedly missing because we’re too busy falling “hook, line and sinker” for smokescreen societal issues you don’t care so much about?

 

[noletaire]

Nope. Didn’t fail to understand your insightful post

Nah. You failed to understand. What's funny is that you think you didn't.

You're a good writer, good vocabulary, I'll give you points for that, but you're a gullible soul and not terribly insightful or analytical. That's what happens when you live inside an ideological box. Talk to you soon.
Your old friend,
Noletaire