So, you're saying Johns Hopkins agenda is to be sort of like the antifa of health!
What I Don’t Get About Vaccine
- Thread starter RONole
- Start date
That’s not what the studies say. In fact, there’s some question about whether getting vaccinated prior to infection lessens natural immunity. We know the vaccine does not immunize, and is not intended to confer immunity. It’s a pre-infection treatment. Which is fine, unless it hinders natural immunity. If it does, it’s a net negative for young, healthy people.
edit- I think you meant to say those with natural immunity who then get vaccinated have the greatest level of immunity—which is supported by the Israeli study.
Those that had it and get the vaccine after have the highest immunity. I get it. My question though is why force those that already have a higher immunity than vaccinated to get it. They are already at a higher level than those that are simply vaccinated. Maybe everybody should be forced to get jabs from every vaccine available. Maybe after vaccination those that never had it should be exposed to high levels of the virus so they can get it and be better protected.
Your response citing hospital and morgue costs is moot because those costs come with every death. The cause of death isn’t relevant. The only difference is the number at the same time.
Death is indeed inescapable for all of us at some point (preferably not hastened and alone via Covid), but the overflow of deaths bunched together far exceeding typical capacity does carry with it a variety of excess costs (as do hyperdemand shocks to the system in nearly any area of life… construction, transportation, medical care, etc etc)
Unlike the deaths though, preventable hospitalizations are not only a matter of timing. If fully vaxxed, many of those who end up hospitalized would not have reached that severity of illness. Higher % of population fully Covid-vaxxed means fewer hospitalizations, no matter how many people are hospitalized for other illnesses and injuries.
Not sure what part of that is confusing you.
Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker
COVID-19 vaccines have been free and broadly available to adults in all states and the District of Columbia since mid-April 2021, meaning adults in the U.S. have generally been able to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 since late May 2021 if receiving a two-dose vaccine. COVID-19 vaccines are...
www.healthsystemtracker.org
If not covid, at some point the vast majority of those cases would end up hospitalized for a disease that ultimately causes their death. My point remains.Death is indeed inescapable for all of us at some point (preferably not hastened and alone via Covid), but the overflow of deaths bunched together far exceeding typical capacity does carry with it a variety of excess costs (as do hyperdemand shocks to the system in nearly any area of life… construction, transportation, medical care, etc etc)
Unlike the deaths though, preventable hospitalizations are not only a matter of timing. If fully vaxxed, many of those who end up hospitalized would not have reached that severity of illness. Higher % of population fully Covid-vaxxed means fewer hospitalizations, no matter how many people are hospitalized for other illnesses and injuries.
Not sure what part of that is confusing you.
Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker
COVID-19 vaccines have been free and broadly available to adults in all states and the District of Columbia since mid-April 2021, meaning adults in the U.S. have generally been able to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 since late May 2021 if receiving a two-dose vaccine. COVID-19 vaccines are...
Whatever helps you dismiss the ramifications of your decision.
You were very clear in a previous post that you resent anyone challenging your reasoning and that you’re not going to get vaxxed regardless due to stubbornness, but since others read our posts in this forum, I’ll continue refuting what I consider to be harmful assumptions and mistruths.
You can label that “berating” or “bullying” or whatever you wish.
Best of luck to you and all those you come in contact with and influence.
Take care.
The reality is if vaccinations work why are vaccinated people still getting the virus. We are being told it’s keeping the hospitalizations down but who knows. I can’t believe Fauci. One day you wear a mask one day you don’t. You choose whatever is you think is right and I will follow my plan. That’s my right and no one should be bullied into taking a vaccine or not. That the reality. No mandates here in Florida and business is great.
Just in case you’re open to listening to the folks at Mayo Clinic about Covid vaccines…
Get the facts about COVID-19 vaccines
Find out about the COVID-19 vaccines, the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination and the possible side effects.
www.mayoclinic.org
COVID-19 Vaccination Information and Updates
www.hopkinsmedicine.org
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I think your premise is flawed. And your factual assumptions are definitively (perhaps intentionally) inaccurate.
And I would suggest that the consequences of failing to get everyone vaccinated as fast and as completely as possible are variants.
I am thrilled that every person who works with me is vaxxed and boosted and that the vast majority have NOT gotten covid (if we want to keep with everyone's penchant for anecdotal evidence, 6 our of 56 in our office have had it), and none have had any need for hospitalization.
Also important to know that in the course of 2+ years of the pandemic, the only people who have lost their jobs are the 3 people who made the decision to. And while I and my partners took a significant pay cut, none of our people did. See, that's called giving a s*%t about your people.
But you feel free to keep right on calling me out.
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But I bet the My Pillow guy didn’t make a single one of his employees choose between their jobs and some experimental fertility-ending Big Pharma clot shot that hasn’t actually helped anybody but just makes all the sheep Baaaah louder.
Why can’t you be a Godly Patriot like him?!
Cut the snark. Good grief.
It’s a compilation of the greatest hits on this board. Apparently I haven’t been pre-approved for parody. I’ll be sure to check with you next time. Enjoy your evening.
Covid vaccinations significantly lower the risk of severe disease and death just like any other vaccine.
I think there’s a pretty good argument that the covid shots do not fit within the traditional definition, or common use, of the term “vaccine.” The word was redefined in August, specifically to fit the covid shot. i had never heard someone refer to the flu shot as a flu vaccine until covid came around. Pretty troubling when definitions are changed to fit governmental overreach.
They have been talking about the flu vaccine for a long time and my doctor personally told me years ago and repeated it that it reduces severity of the flu. I still didn't get it because I saw the efficacy in the 20%-60% range and didn't worry about getting it. I did get the anti-viral treatment a couple of years ago once I got the flu. And remember they suggest a new flu shot before every flu season.
So, this new vaccine is the same, except it has a much higher degree of efficacy and Covid is 3-4 times more likely to hospitalize/kill you than the flu.
Your doctor referred to the flu shot as the flu vaccine years ago? I had never heard it referred to as a vaccine until the last 18 months. I found this brief persuasive arguing the Covid shots are pre-infection therapeutics--not vaccines.
Pretty good illustration of the irrelevancy of personal “I had never heard of…” types of anecdotes, especially on a sports site, when discussing material topics like medical science.
Flu shots (colloquialism) have been referred to as “influenza vaccination” and “influenza vaccine” in the medical/science community for many decades.
Simply Google “XXXX influenza vaccine” (or flu vaccination or any other common variation of those words) replacing XXXX with any year you want and you’ll find pages and pages of citations.
One example of thousands, going back decades…
CDC Updates 2005–2006 Influenza Vaccine Recommendations
CDC Updates 2005–2006 Influenza Vaccine Recommendations
We remember what we want to remember...........
And the VACCINE Court has been listing it for a while, 20 years (It is the most often vaccine paid out).
Interesting. It was not included in the 1986 law (not required, obviously). The flu vaccine is, per the CDC, intended to protect against infection. The covid vaccine is not. It's designed to prevent serious illness/death. Initially we were told it prevents against infection, but that's simply not the case.
That raises a different issue. The constitution protects the decisions related to our own health decisions very strongly. I can decline life saving treatment if I want to. So the state sure can’t tell me to get a vaccine (which we know at this point is really a therapeutic) to protect myself. It shouldn’t even be discussed in the mandatory context. Sure, teach folks. Explain things. But the state has 0 reason to think it can compel it.
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. I’m pretty sure no one has ever come up with a true vaccine for a virus. They tried. But it doesn’t work to stop the virus so we shouldn’t pretend it does and we shouldn’t base public policy on it.
Right. So the covid shots are different. Flu shots (colloquialism) are created to prevent infection, covid shots are not.Pretty good illustration of the irrelevancy of personal “I had never heard of…” types of anecdotes, especially on a sports site, when discussing material topics like medical science.
Flu shots (colloquialism) have been referred to as “influenza vaccination” and “influenza vaccine” in the medical/science community for many decades.
Simply Google “XXXX influenza vaccine” (or flu vaccination or any other common variation of those words) replacing XXXX with any year you want and you’ll find pages and pages of citations.
One example of thousands, going back decades…
CDC Updates 2005–2006 Influenza Vaccine Recommendations
CDC Updates 2005–2006 Influenza Vaccine Recommendationswww.aafp.org
nope, per the CDC (clearly not as credible a medical science source as SteveT1, but still...) -- "An annual seasonal flu vaccine is the best way to help protect against flu. Vaccination has been shown to have many benefits including reducing the risk of flu illnesses, hospitalizations and even the risk of flu-related death in children. While some people who get a flu vaccine may still get sick, flu vaccination has been shown in several studies to reduce severity of illness."
CoVid shots were designed to stop infection. That was the goal. They just don’t work as vaccines.
When you say "which we know at this point is really a therapeutic", who is this "we"?
How many credible members of the medical community agree with you that Covid-19 vaccine is merely a "therapeutic"? If any, please cite them.
Therapeutics are remedial treatments intended to be administered AFTER an infection or other injury or illness has been contracted (or in some cases when someone feels an illness coming on or has been exposed or has other reason to think illness is imminent.)
Vaccines are intended to be preventative, whether that is reducing the likelihood of infection or reducing the likelihood of severe outcomes in the case of breakthrough infections, or both. Covid-19 vaccines do both, although with varying effectiveness depending on strain.
In most cases, those with current Covid symptoms are advised not to get vaccinated while symptomatic... Covid vaccine is NOT intended to be a therapeutic.
Response to Omicron alone certainly doesn't define Covid-19 vaccines, their intended purpose and their well established benefits to date.
There are a few therapeutic vaccines that are designed and tested to be effective when administered after infection, but the current Covid-19 vaccines are considered prophylactic vaccines, not therapeutic vaccines.
In other words, your premise that Covid-19 vaccine is merely a therapeutic is seriously flawed.
Apparently, some WC members have mistakenly been led to believe that Omicron and Covid-19 are totally synonymous things, and that Omicron is totally inclusive of the entire Covid-19 family, from Day 0 to now and forever after, rather than Omicron is merely one strain of Covid-19.
No it doesn't. There are plenty of examples of constitutional applications of health mandates.
I will say this, there were "experts" from the very beginning who said that there was no way you can stop a respiratory virus with Covid characteristics from eventually reaching everyone. You could slow it down, but the unintended consequences of slowing it down was unknown (at that time).
Just as the shot providing 5x protection against a single variant of covid that is no longer ripping through communities.
The polio first vaccine actually gave it too people too. But the bottom line was that because of the seasonality and high variance of Polio you had some self limiting properties that with the addition of the vaccine was able, over 10-15 years, to rid us of that problem. Small Pox took a lot longer, but was able to rid us of that too, but the big drop in small pox was in getting clean water and sewage treatment to make us healthier.
No, it provided against infection in all the variants. Omicron hasn't been around long enough to gain the data needed to determine how much protection is rendered by the vaccine. Omicron is just a really contagious variant.
Yep, it baffles me why so many people are so uncomfortable with the reality that novel coronavirus is indeed novel, and as with all new diseases and variants, there's no way anybody can accurately predict every twist and turn on the horizon.
And given the uncertain nature of what's to come, erring on the side of caution and protection of the masses, including the most vulnerable, sure seems to be the smart way for any public health decision-maker to approach new diseases. Not irrespective of economic and other considerations, but surely not taking the "let's just treat it like any other cold/flu virus and hope most of our strong young folk survive it unscathed" approach.
Omicron is also interesting, in that those who wanted to downplay Covid-19 as nothing worse than the flu from its outset are ecstatic that a strain has finally come along that appears to give them cover (emphasis on "appears") to say "see, we told you!!!!", millions of hospitalizations and deaths later.
While those of us who respected the unusual virulence of Covid-19 and gave public health officials and doctors more credit and respect from the beginning, are also happy for Omicron's less severe profile, but for different reasons, i.e. hopefully we are moving through a less deadly phase of Covid-19 towards its end, or at least towards a more manageable version of the virus where future mutations are also less damaging and deadly than Alpha through Delta.
You’re missing it again. If it’s a therapeutic/treatment then the state has no interest to outweigh personal liberty interests.
You’re relying on cases dealing with stopping the spread of a disease. Can’t imagine good conscience argue that about these shots are doing that. It’s not close. Those cases don’t apply.
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