He’s missing nothing.
When will you be posting citations of any medical experts agreeing with your premise that Covid vaccines are actually “therapeutics” with no significant preventative benefits?
What I Don’t Get About Vaccine
- Thread starter RONole
- Start date
When will you be posting citations of any medical experts agreeing with your premise that Covid vaccines are actually “therapeutics” with no significant preventative benefits?
NYC is over 90% vaccinated. It’s spreading like wildfire. Don’t believe your lying eyes.
Even Fauci has gone from “it stops the spread” to “it mitigates the impact if you get it.” Were a year into the biggest push for vaccines ever probably and cases exceed a year ago.
Not sure why people are invested in a concept what we’re seeing with our own eyes isn’t true. It’s not a bad thing. I’m not saying anyone lied. They wanted the vaccines to work to prevent transmission. But they don’t. If they did we wouldn’t have the current “crisis.”
Even Fauci has gone from “it stops the spread” to “it mitigates the impact if you get it.” Were a year into the biggest push for vaccines ever probably and cases exceed a year ago.
Not sure why people are invested in a concept what we’re seeing with our own eyes isn’t true. It’s not a bad thing. I’m not saying anyone lied. They wanted the vaccines to work to prevent transmission. But they don’t. If they did we wouldn’t have the current “crisis.”
Why do you keep failing to address 3 key facts:
1) Omicron, the one strain with the least available data, does NOT define all that Covid-19 has been, is today, and is likely to be going forward.
2) All the Covid-19 vaccines showed significant effectiveness at reducing spread of the Alpha through Delta strains. Nobody ever claimed that Covid vaccines prevent any and all transmission.
3) All the Covid-19 vaccines have proven effective as a PREVENTATIVE measure (which has never meant 100% protection) against more severe impacts of the virus if acquired, reducing hospitalizations and deaths.
And no, that does not suddenly flip them to remedial therapeutics no matter how insistent you are on twisting the accepted medical language.
Which medical experts support your reclassification of Covid-19 vaccinations as therapeutics?
Look, I'm finished arguing with you. Keep on with your inaccurate narrative. You are wrong. Its ok. You'll get over it. I hope your recovery is going well.
I think this is more psychological. We see it happen, when people create negative associations with a term, what do you do? Those associations tend to stick, so you change what you call it instead.
Global warming > climate change
Vaccine > shot
After that the negative associations, and thus hesitancy, dry up. Personally I never second guessed that there was a vaccine within that shot. Seemed pretty standard to me.
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I've elected to stay mostly out of this thread, but I figured a little anecdotal evidence for you guys might be fun. Especially since I was just reading this for the first time a few days ago and then I got exposed to COVID. I am fully vaccinated (Moderna) as is my wife and young adult daughter who lives with us.
Both my wife and I have symptomatic infections (we're both in our 40s). It's not awful, but it ain't fun either. Kinda like a bad cold, except for the body aches. THOSE were terrible. Of course, I have a lot of issues with that from my Army days. Anyway- seems like a pretty standard Omicron infection.
Both my wife and I have symptomatic infections (we're both in our 40s). It's not awful, but it ain't fun either. Kinda like a bad cold, except for the body aches. THOSE were terrible. Of course, I have a lot of issues with that from my Army days. Anyway- seems like a pretty standard Omicron infection.
Right. And US data for vaccinated/unvaccinated doesn't distinguish between those with natural immunity--regardless of vaccination status--and those without. We may or may not get sufficient data to say whether the covid shot(s) prevent infection. But CDC Director Walensky said in August of 2021, speaking of the then-dominant Delta variant, that the covid vaccines do not prevent transmission. The definition of "vaccine" was then quickly changed. Wonder why.
The covid shots are pre-infection therapeutics.
Not that context and accuracy matter to the hyper skeptics and conspiracy theorists, but since they do matter in real life:
Fact Check-Merged clips of CDC Director Rochelle Walensky discussing vaccine protection from severe COVID-19 are missing context
Two merged clips of the Centre of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Rochelle Walensky discussing the protection from COVID-19 for those vaccinated in March 2021 and August 2021 are presented in a way that is missing context.
mobile.reuters.com
From the CDC:
COVID-19 vaccination causes a more predictable immune response than infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine gives most people a high level of protection against COVID-19 and can provide added protection for people who already had COVID-19. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.
All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can offer some protection from future illness, sometimes called “natural immunity,” but the level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age.
From HHS:
Fully vaccinated people are protected from serious COVID illness and hospitalizations in the majority of cases, including from COVID variants.
COVID-19 vaccination causes a more predictable immune response than infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine gives most people a high level of protection against COVID-19 and can provide added protection for people who already had COVID-19. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.
All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can offer some protection from future illness, sometimes called “natural immunity,” but the level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age.
From HHS:
Fully vaccinated people are protected from serious COVID illness and hospitalizations in the majority of cases, including from COVID variants.
Good stuff, thanks for posting. Glad more previously skeptical folks are beginning to appreciate and promote the significant protective benefits of getting fully vaccinated, rather than rolling the dice and relying instead on after-the-fact therapeutics.
The more people who get fully vaccinated and the fewer who spread vaccine misinformation and skepticism, the better we all fare.
I was actually highlighting the different messages that come from government agencies that should be in lock step. I'm very skeptical of anything a government wants to force on a society but cant even figure out the correct messaging it wants to get out there. See this shot doesn't prevent infection so by getting it you are hoping it prevents serious illness or hospitalization. Effectively you are still rolling the dice as you say. We can look at the data and say there have been no long term effects or that less (vaccinated) people are being hospitalized but that also could be the natural course of this virus. We don't know yet so its all rolling the dice. I've had the shot, all three to be exact but I'm still skeptical and definitely not promoting the shot.
"[The covid shots] continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death . . . But what they can't do . . . is prevent transmission." -CDC Director August 2021.
I got something last week just like that. I had it and my daughter in law both had chills, body ache and cold like symptoms. We didn't get tested though as that just adds to the numbers and puts more needless burden on the system. It went away after a few days. I've had all three shots as well.
Walking out the door in the morning is rolling the dice, but fortunately there are ways we can all tilt the odds at least a little more in our favor. Sorry that the world of infectious diseases doesn’t come with more unchangeable truths and guarantees.
That’s exactly why I rely on paying the most attention to the most credible voices with the most relevant expertise and use my own education, experience and comfort with research, reading and statistics to determine which course of action gives myself and my fellow humans the highest probability of dodging X, Y and Z perils or at least minimizing the impacts if I/we don’t dodge them.
You do you. And hopefully with full appreciation of how you doing you impacts others.
Take care.
Since the US Navy required vaccinations for all personnel....it's very ironic that every vaccinated sailor on one ship (over one hundred soldiers) became ill and were all diagnosed with Covid. The ship is still at sea and under quarantine protocols.
Now the vaccine may help in making the symptoms milder; but the vaccines DO NOT....I REPEAT DO NOT stop people from getting Covid.
I think the point is that the initial message was that it prevented covid. Now the message is that it prevents serious illness and hospitalization. Is something that prevents illness and hospitalization a vaccine or a treatment/therapeutic? Your correct in that the shot doesn't prevent you from getting covid. That part is the one certainty in all of this.
No vaccine can completely prevent someone from getting infected. They can lower the chances of infection or symptomatic infection.
I've spent 35 years serving the public and this country. I'm well aware how my actions impact others.
Just curious regarding your super definitive closing line… when you say “…DO NOT stop people from getting Covid” (which isn’t a requirement for vaccination to still be highly beneficial), do you mean not a single person who gets vaccinated or just not everybody who gets vaccinated, and by Covid are you including all past, current and future strains of Covid-19 or just Omicron?
Then how do you account for every person on this boat getting Covid at the same time, when they were all vaccinated? My point is, they vaccination doesn't keep a person from getting Covid. It only helps to keep the symptoms milder, so that you don't get as sick. That's not what I consider a vaccine.
A vaccine is somewhat in the lines of Polio, or small pox. No one in the US or Europe has developed those two diseases after being vaccinated. A vaccination is supposed to keep you from being infected from a particular disease.
Hail itsjustme0770
Wow you fired 4 people for doing what they believe is best for their health. We use to live in a free country.
Your personal opinion on what a vaccine is or isn't is not really relevant. It's still a vaccine regardless of transmissibility. The efficacy in preventing transmission or infection is much lower than other vaccines especially for variants, which I agree with. Government did a poor job of preparing everyone for that and sold it as a it's all over once you get the vaccine but the vaccine was extremely effective in preventing infection and transmission for Alpha.
However, you still need to remember it's still disease no one can predict with certainty what a virus will or won't do and all they can do is prepare a vaccine you then have to constantly change it as new variants are discovered but hopefully we've hit the point where death and severe disease are largely a thing of the past.
We still do. He was free to fire them for not meeting conditions of their employment. They were free to work elsewhere if they did not want to meet his conditions of employment. Sounds like free market capitalism at its best and should be celebrated by all for our economic and labor system working.
So by your own personal requirement that nothing is a vaccine unless it stops any and all chance of infection, is the flu vaccine also not a vaccine even though it’s been referred to as a vaccine in the medical community for many decades?
Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine
An annual seasonal flu vaccine is the best way to help protect against flu. Learn more about seasonal flu vaccine.
www.cdc.gov
I hope you feel better soon! and contact your doctor asap if it doesn't improve. way too many people ride it out without any intervention.
i agree mostly with this (i know, amazing, right!?
) with the only caveats being that despite there being some 15 to 20 different variants the overwhelming US variants are currently delta and omicron with omicron quite quickly squeezing delta out in most states.only 0.2% of US cases are neither omicron or delta at this time. there was an odd unnamed variant that popped up in the UK between delta and omicron that was beginning to get a foothold but they haven't updated their data since 12/23 to see if that has been pushed aside. I have been watching for that.
i have always been consistent in acknowledging that the covid vaxx does significantly reduce hospitalizations, the rate of death is exponentially higher if you are hospitalized due to covid.
That’s fair. Perfectly fair. But we’re seeing from numbers here that these are very ineffective at preventing folks from getting it or transmitting it. The fake news is that it’s non vaxxed passing it all around. That’s where the lack of trust is perpetuated.
I guess that's one way of looking at it and I get your point, but it just seems like Nazi bullshit to my uneducated mind. You wouldn't of had to fire me I would of laughed and quit.
Nazi bullcrap would have been pointing a gun at your head and saying you're working here because we told you to and you'll get the vaccine.
We do. they were free to not get the vaccine and I was free to not have them work for me. Lots of freedom going around.
Seems to me that you would have preferred to take my freedom away from me.
I said I get it, I just can't see how you could justify doing that nazi type shit. Oh my uneducated dumb ass gets it..I bet you took a subidy from the government 🙄
No I prefer you wouldn't make other people have to make a choice too feed their families or to loose their freedoms. Those 4 people are actually free. Your a government stuge.
So you are cool with making employers hire unqualified people? You are cool with mandating a certain level of retirement programs? You are cool with making me let sick people come to the office and hurt my business by making other people sick (not talking about Covid, just generally)? You are cool with unions and their placing conditions on an employer's ability to hire and fire? You are cool with mandating certain time off that employers give employees? I just want to understand what my rights as an employer are.
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