ADVERTISEMENT

Why Eliminating the SAT is bad for students from poor families

Back to the topic at hand. I don't like the SAT and GRE. The ACT, IMO, is a better testing tool.

Also, I don't believe in all the prepping for the SAT that they do in the NE. I think there should be a cross between the ACT, and giving kids testing on critical thinking skills. Like, what would you do in this situation.

Skills in handling difficult situations cannot be ignored, and there are plenty of low income, disadvantaged kids that have those skills, beyond their years. They need to be identified and supported.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GeddyLee09
bcherod said:
Our parents tended to be like this. Both my parents weren't "kind of a snob", they were snobs, but my mother went to college on a scholarship, and my dad worked all the time and the AF finally paid for his Masters.
But, my grandparents went to college. My grandfather was the oldest. He went to Southern, came home and worked so the next one to go. (there were 10). After the ball got rolling three of the brothers went to Emory Theological School. Education was valued above all else in my family. He was later the chaplain for Huntingdon.

And BTW, even my great-grandparents went to college. I was once harassed by some fellow teachers that were Ivy leaguers, they were disrespecting Southerners, and I got a bit hot under the collar. They made a blanket statement that one of my students would never succeed because he was going to Wake, and in the South all they day was watch NASCAR, drink beer and smoke cigarettes. Well, you can imagine that did not fly with me. One later apologized, the other went to the principal and complained that I had been mean to him, whiny Columbia grad.

Oh and said student that would never amount to much because he was from NC, got his PhD from MIT in AI. I loved that kid and his parents. The coolest day for me was when Dustin's step-father from NC, came to school and laid out the principal in lavender, with a heavy southern accent. I loved every minute of it.
Click to expand...
Whiny Columbia grad😎. Classic! Respect, like disrespect is earned😉
 
BelemNole said:
Where did I say that letting people live how they want would fix the economy or the climate?
I said I didn't care how they led their lives.
Any no one is forcing you to wear a dress or define your gender. You seem mad that others are allowed to do what you don't want to do.
I'm mad about the things that will actually harm the country, not policing societal norms.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as defining your gender, its done for you when you are born. They even write it on your birth certificate. If that's confusing you can get a DNA test. Follow the science right?

If your mad about things that could harm the country you should worry about inflation, immigration, gun violence, crime and countless other things that are actually happening. Not something that scientists think could happen down the road based on a very small sample size.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noletaire, FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor and F4Gary
seminoleed said:
As I remember it, everyone in Florida high schools of my time had to take the Florida 12th grade test, and that score was what got you into the state universities. Thus, never had the joy of prepping for and taking SAT and its ilk.
Click to expand...
And, if you were an out of state student, having been accepted to FSU based on your test scores, you still had to take the Florida 12grade tests.

I tell ya, my first week here was taking all the placement tests. That's what they made us do if you were advanced in some subjects. Depending on how you placed, you could move right into a higher level class.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fsufool and goldmom
bcherod said:
And, if you were an out of state student, having been accepted to FSU based on your test scores, you still had to take the Florida 12grade tests.

I tell ya, my first week here was taking all the placement tests. That's what they made us do if you were advanced in some subjects. Depending on how you placed, you could move right into a higher level class.
Click to expand...
My score on that test automatically got me into FSU and uf. I held off taking the SAT because of it. I had applied to Chapel Hill but my Dad gently informed me that he wasn’t going to pay their out of state tuition or the tuition at Loyola in New Orleans either. And he was not approving of what he knew of the college scene at uf, so FSU it was. I was glad because it was my favorite too. All of my siblings ended up there as well.
And, like most of my Catholic high school classmates, I also placed out on the English tests we took when we arrived on campus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MagNoleA
I went to high school in Virginia. You took the PSAT, and then a few weeks later you took the SAT. No one re-took the SAT to get a better score. If you were trying to go to a western US college, you also took the ACT. I took all of those. Thought I would be going to school out west. Then my Dad got orders to Key West. I applied to FSU, FU, scUM, and NCSt (my bro was going there).

Ended up at FSU and I never took a Florida 12th grade test.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noletaire, FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor, bcherod and 2 others
F4Gary said:
I went to high school in Virginia. You took the PSAT, and then a few weeks later you took the SAT. No one re-took the SAT to get a better score. If you were trying to go to a western US college, you also took the ACT. I took all of those. Thought I would be going to school out west. Then my Dad got orders to Key West. I applied to FSU, FU, scUM, and NCSt (my bro was going there).

Ended up at FSU and I never took a Florida 12th grade test.
Click to expand...
I took the PSAT...........was mad because a good friend was a National Merit Scholar (derived from that test) and I wasn't. Next year took the SAT and scored better than him. Never studied or did prep for it. I took the ACT because there were a few western schools I was considering. That was it. 3 days in 2 years dedicated to testing.
Took the CLEP tests at FSU upon arrival and Clepped out of the maximum amount, whatever that was.
Noted that those of us that were educated in suburban northern schools tended to ClEP more than Florida students.
Still took me 5 years to graduate.....LOL......but I was having fun and in no hurry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F4Gary
GeddyLee09 said:
There is no such thing as defining your gender, its done for you when you are born. They even write it on your birth certificate. If that's confusing you can get a DNA test. Follow the science right?

If your mad about things that could harm the country you should worry about inflation, immigration, gun violence, crime and countless other things that are actually happening. Not something that scientists think could happen down the road based on a very small sample size.
Click to expand...
No, they write the sex on the birth certificate, not the gender. Assuming that it's obvious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrainVision
goldmom said:
My score on that test automatically got me into FSU and uf. I held off taking the SAT because of it. I had applied to Chapel Hill but my Dad gently informed me that he wasn’t going to pay their out of state tuition or the tuition at Loyola in New Orleans either. And he was not approving of what he knew of the college scene at uf, so FSU it was. I was glad because it was my favorite too. All of my siblings ended up there as well.
And, like most of my Catholic high school classmates, I also placed out on the English tests we took when we arrived on campus.
Click to expand...
That's great news!
 
GeddyLee09 said:
:rolleyes: Assuming that's obvious. Wow.
Click to expand...
Wow what? It's estimated that 1-2% of babies are born intersex. There are about 3.5 million babies born each year in the US, that's a lot of intersex babies.
Even if you go with the much stricter definition (0.018%) then you're still around 65,000 babies a year. In jus the US.
 
BelemNole said:
Wow what? It's estimated that 1-2% of babies are born intersex. There are about 3.5 million babies born each year in the US, that's a lot of intersex babies.
Even if you go with the much stricter definition (0.018%) then you're still around 65,000 babies a year. In jus the US.
Click to expand...
.018% of 3.5 million is 630. Do you mean 1.8%?
 
BelemNole said:
Wow what? It's estimated that 1-2% of babies are born intersex. There are about 3.5 million babies born each year in the US, that's a lot of intersex babies.
Even if you go with the much stricter definition (0.018%) then you're still around 65,000 babies a year. In jus the US.
Click to expand...
"If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births".

So that would be between .1 and .05% or 1750 - 3500. 630 - 3500 is a decent spread but the definition could be tricky. DNA testing could figure some of these out.
 
BrainVision said:
That there still seems to be widespread lack of awareness regarding the distinction between gender and sex is disheartening, especially given the stridency with which these debates are happening.
Click to expand...
Maybe its lack of acceptance not awareness. In other news the 2026 World Cup will have 104 matches up from 64. Will this water down the one of the planets most popular sporting event?
 
BrainVision said:
I do not understand the lack of acceptance of the distinction: sex and gender are as fundamentally and factually different as the brain and intelligence. They just are not even in the same category of characteristics or concepts.
Click to expand...
Ok 👍Seems many people don't see it as that clear cut.
 
BrainVision said:
That is a failure in education.
Click to expand...
Not just a failure in education.
Also, in the personal accountability department: dogged stubbornness to accepting facts that don’t align with people’s preferred tribal affiliations (and that certainly won’t win as many Likes on sports message boards), the convenience of quicker & simpler explanations for complex matters, resistance to others’ experiences that aren’t consistent with folks’ own limited experiences of this huge world, the impacts of empathy being mocked as weakness, personal insecurities, etc.

Disconnects between some humans’ biological sex and their gender identity is very real, no matter how easy it is for many people to dismiss and mock as some liberal fabrication or anything “force fed” to kids in school or by other dangerous looneys.

How best to address these complexities in competitive sports, bathroom accommodations, etc is a whole separate matter from whether or not the science of it is legit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BelemNole and BrainVision
NoleSince1961 said:
Not just a failure in education.
Also, in the personal accountability department: dogged stubbornness to accepting facts that don’t align with people’s preferred tribal affiliations (and that certainly won’t win as many Likes on sports message boards), the convenience of quicker & simpler explanations for complex matters, resistance to others’ experiences that aren’t consistent with folks’ own limited experiences of this huge world, the impacts of empathy being mocked as weakness, personal insecurities, etc.

Disconnects between some humans’ biological sex and their gender identity is very real, no matter how easy it is for many people to dismiss and mock as some liberal fabrication or anything “force fed” to kids in school or by other dangerous looneys.

How best to address these complexities in competitive sports, bathroom accommodations, etc is a whole separate matter from whether or not the science of it is legit.
Click to expand...
I see it as a spectrum, one end being male and the other female. In that spectrum there are many definitions and more coming all the time. Where a person fits on that spectrum of masculinity and femininity varies. A man can be and some are very feminine while some are masculine. However, regardless of where you fit or feel on that spectrum your one or the other.

It’s not education or as you say lack of worldly knowledge I have plenty of both.
 
BrainVision said:
I guess that I just don't even see what the controversy is. Sex and gender have fundamentally different definitions, and as far as I know they always have. Heck, even the pejorative language that I remember from really old movies about "being a man" implies a spectrum of masculinity that is independent from sex/anatomy/physiology. To recognize the differences between a tomboy and girly girl explicitly identifies a gender spectrum on which individuals vary widely, for example.
Click to expand...
1955 is when gender concept came about I think. But your right it is a spectrum of masculinity and femininity IMO But still make or female.
 
GeddyLee09 said:
I see it as a spectrum, one end being male and the other female. In that spectrum there are many definitions and more coming all the time. Where a person fits on that spectrum of masculinity and femininity varies. A man can be and some are very feminine while some are masculine. However, regardless of where you fit or feel on that spectrum your one or the other.

It’s not education or as you say lack of worldly knowledge I have plenty of both.
Click to expand...
You’re certainly welcome to believe that everybody is either male or female and that’s that, no matter how much the prevailing science refutes that more simplistic belief.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bcherod and BelemNole
GeddyLee09 said:
One would think that having a objective quantifiable way to judge learning ability would be the best way to weed out preferential treatment by universities. I guess that's not the case.
Click to expand...
You are correct. And that's exactly why they are eliminating it. The universities are completely committed to preferential "DIE" treatment, and they want to make it impossible to prove.
 
bcherod said:
Our parents tended to be like this. Both my parents weren't "kind of a snob", they were snobs, but my mother went to college on a scholarship, and my dad worked all the time and the AF finally paid for his Masters.
But, my grandparents went to college. My grandfather was the oldest. He went to Southern, came home and worked so the next one to go. (there were 10). After the ball got rolling three of the brothers went to Emory Theological School. Education was valued above all else in my family. He was later the chaplain for Huntingdon.

And BTW, even my great-grandparents went to college. I was once harassed by some fellow teachers that were Ivy leaguers, they were disrespecting Southerners, and I got a bit hot under the collar. They made a blanket statement that one of my students would never succeed because he was going to Wake, and in the South all they day was watch NASCAR, drink beer and smoke cigarettes. Well, you can imagine that did not fly with me. One later apologized, the other went to the principal and complained that I had been mean to him, whiny Columbia grad.

Oh and said student that would never amount to much because he was from NC, got his PhD from MIT in AI. I loved that kid and his parents. The coolest day for me was when Dustin's step-father from NC, came to school and laid out the principal in lavender, with a heavy southern accent. I loved every minute of it.
Click to expand...
I knew I liked you. Now I know why.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bcherod
BelemNole said:
No, it was the boomer party that gave us trickle down economics and sent industry overseas.
But skittles are bad too I guess.
Click to expand...
"Trickle down economics" is a good description in the same way that "Don't Say Gay" is accurate. Both phrases are/were only used as deliberate falsities propagated by the enemies of the policies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noletaire and GeddyLee09
BelemNole said:
This is true. If we'd stop voting dinosaurs in for re-election then congress wouldn't be filled with 80 year olds.
On the other hand you could end up with a Matt Gaetz...
Click to expand...
You really have a thing for Matt Gaetz, don't you? Looking forward to your Hunter Biden posts.
 
NoleSince1961 said:
You’re certainly welcome to believe that everybody is either male or female and that’s that, no matter how much the prevailing science refutes that more simplistic belief.
Click to expand...
Absolutely laughable how some folks blur a fundamental concept that worked beautifully for thousands of years. I’ll keep this in mind when I next breed my angus cattle. LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: F4Gary, noletaire, goldmom and 1 other person
FisherWilcoxTaggart Survivor said:
Absolutely laughable how some folks blur a fundamental concept that worked beautifully for thousands of years. I’ll keep this in mind when I next breed my angus cattle. LOL.
Click to expand...
Yep, dadgum all them smarty pants foreign-film-loving doctors of this and that always shoving their laughable “scientific findings” and “real life accounts of humans outside my county” down the throats of the red-blooded Americans who really matter.
What’s this world coming to?
Next thing you know we’re all gonna be forced to share bathrooms with endangered polar bears that we can’t shoot til we ask their pronouns.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bcherod and BelemNole
buckeyenole said:
The "extra genders" is probably why this tribe was so successful, and has come to dominate the continent.
Click to expand...
How is that relevant? Or is your position that only values brought over the puritans are valid because they managed to kill off the natives with disease?
 
BelemNole said:
Wow what? It's estimated that 1-2% of babies are born intersex. There are about 3.5 million babies born each year in the US, that's a lot of intersex babies.
Even if you go with the much stricter definition (0.018%) then you're still around 65,000 babies a year. In jus the US.
Click to expand...
Please share your source for intersex births.

Here's my source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/

The NIH says "The true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%."
 
Last edited:
BelemNole said:
Oh, was he elected and re-elected to congress too? I must have missed that.
Click to expand...
Right. He and his dad aren't public figures at all. You must have missed that. Dad has only been a politician for his entire adult life. And, um, the president. And Hunter and the great prevaricator have been business partners at least since dad was VP. Did you miss that?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DFSNOLE and BelemNole
BelemNole said:
How is that relevant? Or is your position that only values brought over the puritans are valid because they managed to kill off the natives with disease?
Click to expand...
LOLOL. I'm actually noting that natural selection 'seems' to make some beliefs and behaviors less desirable and less reproduced. Puritan values have been fabulously successful in building a tremendous country that is the (however imperfect) model for the world. I encourage you to read "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" by Max Weber, a famous German sociologist, written in the early 1900's. Disease is emphatically NOT one of the main reason Puritans, Pilgrims, and Protestants generally were successful in the New World. It's only one book, but it's a start. There are many other, probably better, books that you'd benefit from.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noletaire
BrainVision said:
There are many; here is a relatively famous one:
Blackless M, Charuvastra A, Derryck A, Fausto-Sterling A, Lauzanne K, Lee E. How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis. Am J Hum Biol. 2000 Mar;12(2):151-166. doi: 10.1002/(SICI)1520-6300(200003/04)12:2<151::AID-AJHB1>3.0.CO;2-F. PMID: 11534012.

Abstract​

The belief that Homo sapiens is absolutely dimorphic with the respect to sex chromosome composition, gonadal structure, hormone levels, and the structure of the internal genital duct systems and external genitalia, derives from the platonic ideal that for each sex there is a single, universally correct developmental pathway and outcome. We surveyed the medical literature from 1955 to the present for studies of the frequency of deviation from the ideal male or female. We conclude that this frequency may be as high as 2% of live births. The frequency of individuals receiving "corrective" genital surgery, however, probably runs between 1 and 2 per 1,000 live births (0.1-0.2%).
Click to expand...
Please see my source above, from the NIH.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

JerryKutz

We're No. 1! TLH is the most expensive airport in the country to fly from. Awesome.

Replies
9
Views
1K
Osceola Village
TheCFLNole
T
Bob Ferrante

Basketball FSU values shooting, defense of well-traveled Justin Thomas

Replies
1
Views
205
Osceola Village
FSeminoles15
F
W

Continous kick in the ****?

Replies
18
Views
2K
Osceola Village
JerryKutz
JerryKutz
CurtWeiler

Football FSU specialists Ryan Fitzgerald, Alex Mastromanno named Groza, Guy Award finalists

Replies
2
Views
578
Osceola Village
colconole
C
Bob Ferrante

Basketball A few interesting comments from Leonard Hamilton on Miami coach Jim Larrañaga retiring midseason

Replies
0
Views
1K
Osceola Village
Bob Ferrante
Bob Ferrante
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back