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WSJ: It’s Time to Bring Back Asylums

surfnole

Seminole Insider
Mar 29, 2002
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Excerpts:

The ongoing saga of the severely mentally ill in America is stirring attention again in a sadly familiar way. In Los Angeles in early 2022, a 70-year-old nurse was murdered while waiting for a bus, and two days later a young graduate student was stabbed to death in an upscale furniture store where she worked. That same week in New York City, a 40-year-old financial analyst was pushed onto the subway tracks as a train was arriving, killing her instantly.

All three assaults, random and unprovoked, were committed by unsheltered homeless men with violent pasts and long histories of mental illness. In New York, the perpetrator had warned a psychiatrist during one of his many hospitalizations of his intention to commit that very crime.
.......
Had Jordan Neely and the others been born a generation or two earlier, they probably would not have wound up on the streets. There was an alternative back then: state psychiatric hospitals, popularly known as asylums. Massive, architecturally imposing, and set on bucolic acreage, they housed close to 600,000 patients by the 1950s, totaling half the nation’s hospital population. Today, that number is 45,000 and falling.
........
Asylums were created for humane ends. The very term implies refuge for those in distress. The idea was to separate the insane, who were innocently afflicted, from the criminals and prostitutes who were then commonly referred to as the “unworthy poor.”
...................
A few voices had predicted as much. In 1973, a Wisconsin psychiatrist named Darold Treffert wrote an essay about the dangerous direction in which his profession was headed. His colleagues had become so fixated on guarding the patient’s civil liberties, he noted, that they had lost sight of the patient’s illness. What worried him was the full-throated endorsement of recent laws and court decisions that severely restricted involuntary commitments. What purpose was served by giving people who couldn’t take care of themselves the freedom to live as they wished? He titled his piece, “Dying With Their Rights On."

These issues are intertwined with a fundamental change brought about by deinstitutionalization. Put simply, civil libertarians and disability rights advocates have largely replaced psychiatrists as the arbiters of care for the severely mentally ill. And a fair number of them, with the best of intentions, seem to view the choices of those they represent as an alternative lifestyle rather than the expression of a sickness requiring aggressive medical care.
....
These issues are intertwined with a fundamental change brought about by deinstitutionalization. Put simply, civil libertarians and disability rights advocates have largely replaced psychiatrists as the arbiters of care for the severely mentally ill. And a fair number of them, with the best of intentions, seem to view the choices of those they represent as an alternative lifestyle rather than the expression of a sickness requiring aggressive medical care.

....
The enormous vacuum created by deinstitutionalization has been a calamity for both the mentally ill and society at large. The role once occupied by the asylum has been transferred to the institutions perhaps least able to deal with mental health issues—prisons and jails. The number of inmates in the U.S. in 1955 was 185,000; today, that figure is 1,900,000.
......
Unsurprisingly, the nation’s three largest mental health facilities are the Los Angeles County Jail, the Cook County Jail in Chicago, and Rikers Island in New York City. Approximately one quarter of their inmates have been diagnosed with a serious mental disorder.

In this massive system, the mentally ill are less likely to make bail, more likely to be repeat offenders and far more likely to be victimized by other inmates. Given the sheer numbers, maintaining order in these prisons and jails depends heavily on antipsychotic medication. It’s hard to imagine a worse environment for the safety, much less the treatment, of the mentally ill.

 
It just seems like mental health in this country was ignored for the longest time.. now, it’s very common for people to see therapists.

Heck, half jokingly half serious, I think everyone should seek mental help.

Everyone should should treat their mental health just like we do our regular doctors visits.
 
It just seems like mental health in this country was ignored for the longest time.. now, it’s very common for people to see therapists.

Heck, half jokingly half serious, I think everyone should seek mental help.

Everyone should should treat their mental health just like we do our regular doctors visits.

I think it's getting better now.

When I go to the doctor for a physical, they give me a depression screening every time.
 
I think it's getting better now.

When I go to the doctor for a physical, they give me a depression screening.

Mental health was something that no one talked about- as little as like 10-15 years ago.

Now, there doesn’t seem to be a stigma around it anymore.

Like I said. More people just need to seek help. Go talk to someone. Learn yoga or breathing techniques. Everyone just bottles things in and tries to handle things on their own.

Even if you’re not depressed. Working on your mental health should be priority #1
 
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Mental health was something that no one talked about- as little as like 10-15 years ago.

Now, there doesn’t seem to be a stigma around it anymore.

Like I said. More people just need to seek help. Go talk to someone. Learn yoga or breathing techniques. Everyone just bottles things in and tries to handle things on their own.

Even if you’re not depressed. Working on your mental health should be priority #1

Yep.

This is the #1 book recommended by doctors for depression.

I think it should be required reading in high schools in America.


Amazon product ASIN 0380731762
 
I think it's getting better now.

When I go to the doctor for a physical, they give me a depression screening every time.
What does a depression screening entail? I've never heard of these. I'm sure its something they charge for.
 
Spot on, probably need to come up with a better name than asylum or mental institution but it is a huge problem.
Many are referred to as state hospitals i.e. in Chattahoochee, Fl. In Tuscaloosa, the old insane asylum of the 1900's is now Brice Mental Health Center.
 
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It's just a 10 part questionnaire about how you're feeling mentally. Nothing too intense. I don't think they charge for it.
I've never seen one at the doctors office. At the VA they ask some mental health questions but I haven't seen that at the regular doctor.
 
Yep.

This is the #1 book recommended by doctors for depression.

I think it should be required reading in high schools in America.


Not sure how I feel about this one. On one hand better education about subjects is a good thing. On the other hand is it a good idea to introduce this to a group that's already fragile and impressionable in many cases? Like getting a group of hypochondriacs to read up on fiber myalgia.
 
It's just a 10 part questionnaire about how you're feeling mentally. Nothing too intense. I don't think they charge for it.
They can likely code for it meaning charge your insurance. I’m sure insurance pays out like $10 for it but times that by 30 patients a day it adds up. Medical coding is a huge industry.
 
They can likely code for it meaning charge your insurance. I’m sure insurance pays out like $10 for it but times that by 30 patients a day it adds up. Medical coding is a huge industry.
Yep. Its not getting done for free.
 
Primary care physicians actually don’t make that much when you consider the meat grinder they go through education and training wise.
Plus if you look at it in the context of hours how much are they really making? I have a Dr. friend that says he makes around 350 a year but he also works 80 plus hours a week. If you work it out to a 40 hour week and factor in all the tuition bills they are still paying the pay is comparable or even less than a lot of jobs.
 
When I go in for my Medicare "Wellness" exam, they ask me some pretty canned mental health questions.
It's no biggie really and I could easily lie to the Doc.
The last time I was at the VA the doc asked if I feel stressed or sad about things. I said of course I'm married. She didn't find it humorous at all.
 
Plus if you look at it in the context of hours how much are they really making? I have a Dr. friend that says he makes around 350 a year but he also works 80 plus hours a week. If you work it out to a 40 hour week and factor in all the tuition bills they are still paying the pay is comparable or even less than a lot of jobs.
Yep. It’s not as glamorous a lifestyle as some TV shows or movies make it out to be.
 
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My friend from HS was an obstetrician and sold his practice two years ago but he said he regularly had 20 expectant patients in a day.
Another friend’s son is a hand surgeon who was told by the other Doctors in the group that he was spending too much time on each patient and he wasn’t making enough money for the practice.
Most Docs in practice today will tell you that medicine is now a business controlled by the insurance companies.
 
Doctors have a high rate of depression, too.
There's something I tell my family members when they get worried or in a rut about stuff. I ask them if its something they can fix, if the answer is no I tell them don't worry about it. If the answer is yes I tell them to fix it and stop worrying about it.
 
I wonder how much the movie One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest influenced public policy in 1980? The movie was released in 1975.
Nurse Ratchett and Gaylord Focker changed the nursing industry, too.
 
My friend from HS was an obstetrician and sold his practice two years ago but he said he regularly had 20 expectant patients in a day.
Another friend’s son is a hand surgeon who was told by the other Doctors in the group that he was spending too much time on each patient and he wasn’t making enough money for the practice.
Most Docs in practice today will tell you that medicine is now a business controlled by the insurance companies.
I'd argue that it's a business controlled by the combination of insurance companies, hosptial chains, and private equity firms. None of whom really give a crap about patient care bc they have investors to worry about.

PE firms have been extremely active in rolling up medical practices, stripping out costs, and driving to a hard bottom line that deprioritizes patient care that some of us are used to from private practices. Private practice is a (sadly) a dying breed.

Health insurance companies made it hard to run an office by squeezing pricing, lawyers made it hard to afford malpractice insurance (particularly in states like FL there are almost no malpractice insurance companies left). Hospital chains started buying up practices and keeping referrals in house, suffocating lead flow for a lot of physicians, and those that are left are aging out and selling to PE funds (at a handsome profit) but the end result of these factors is basically conveyor belt healthcare.

IMO healthcare shouldn't be for corporate profit. The well trained professionals deserve to be paid commensurate with the impact of their work (life saving, life delivering, comfort, preventative care, etc...) but beyond that, when it comes to something as necessary as quality care, the money needs to be stripped out - reduce the profit taking and cost structure.
 
I'd argue that it's a business controlled by the combination of insurance companies, hosptial chains, and private equity firms. None of whom really give a crap about patient care bc they have investors to worry about.

PE firms have been extremely active in rolling up medical practices, stripping out costs, and driving to a hard bottom line that deprioritizes patient care that some of us are used to from private practices. Private practice is a (sadly) a dying breed.

Health insurance companies made it hard to run an office by squeezing pricing, lawyers made it hard to afford malpractice insurance (particularly in states like FL there are almost no malpractice insurance companies left). Hospital chains started buying up practices and keeping referrals in house, suffocating lead flow for a lot of physicians, and those that are left are aging out and selling to PE funds (at a handsome profit) but the end result of these factors is basically conveyor belt healthcare.

IMO healthcare shouldn't be for corporate profit. The well trained professionals deserve to be paid commensurate with the impact of their work (life saving, life delivering, comfort, preventative care, etc...) but beyond that, when it comes to something as necessary as quality care, the money needs to be stripped out - reduce the profit taking and cost structure.
I agree with much of this.
 
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I'd argue that it's a business controlled by the combination of insurance companies, hosptial chains, and private equity firms. None of whom really give a crap about patient care bc they have investors to worry about.

PE firms have been extremely active in rolling up medical practices, stripping out costs, and driving to a hard bottom line that deprioritizes patient care that some of us are used to from private practices. Private practice is a (sadly) a dying breed.

Health insurance companies made it hard to run an office by squeezing pricing, lawyers made it hard to afford malpractice insurance (particularly in states like FL there are almost no malpractice insurance companies left). Hospital chains started buying up practices and keeping referrals in house, suffocating lead flow for a lot of physicians, and those that are left are aging out and selling to PE funds (at a handsome profit) but the end result of these factors is basically conveyor belt healthcare.

IMO healthcare shouldn't be for corporate profit. The well trained professionals deserve to be paid commensurate with the impact of their work (life saving, life delivering, comfort, preventative care, etc...) but beyond that, when it comes to something as necessary as quality care, the money needs to be stripped out - reduce the profit taking and cost structure.

My dad was a physician and back in the 1970s, he told the kids several times: "Do not choose medicine as a career. The goverment is taking it over. I am not sure that was the best career advice.

He was old school. Saw 8-12 patients a day. Did all the intakes himself. Quoted one of his med school professors: "If you listen to your patients, they will tell you the diagnosis". When he asked one of his partners when he would retire, his partner stated when he made less than zero dollars.

For primary care docs, its not the insurance companies that control pricing, its Medicare. You get an AC guy to come give you a diagnosis for as cheap as physicians are paid for an office visit.

Health care companies, didn't just buy practices to wring out costs, they built in-network monopolies and told practices, "Sell to us or you we won't pay you for sending patients to our hospital'. Sell to us or go out of business.

Thank the attorneys for the high cost of malpractice insurance. Not only do they sue, but they create the laws which generate the business for them.

I like the idea of a concierge primary care doc for when I start having serious health problems. Pay an annual retainer and pay out of pocket for basic care. Talk to directly to the doctor and call him/her anytime. No long wait times to get a visit. No dealing with insurance companies and the government.
 
When I was just a little kid - maybe 4 or so - and really sick before I had my tonsils out, the Doctor made a house call. Last time anyone in the family ever had one. Can you imagine anyone now getting that treatment unless you have some really expensive premium super duper concierge policy?
As for tonsils - is there any Boomer of a certain era who didn’t get their tonsils out?
 
When I was just a little kid - maybe 4 or so - and really sick before I had my tonsils out, the Doctor made a house call. Last time anyone in the family ever had one. Can you imagine anyone now getting that treatment unless you have some really expensive premium super duper concierge policy?
As for tonsils - is there any Boomer of a certain era who didn’t get their tonsils out?
Not technically a boomer (late 60's) but I didnt have mine removed.
 
When I was just a little kid - maybe 4 or so - and really sick before I had my tonsils out, the Doctor made a house call. Last time anyone in the family ever had one. Can you imagine anyone now getting that treatment unless you have some really expensive premium super duper concierge policy?
As for tonsils - is there any Boomer of a certain era who didn’t get their tonsils out?
Still have mine in a jar of alcohol somewhere around here; used to be a badge of honor among young boys to save them, for some reason.
 
When I was just a little kid - maybe 4 or so - and really sick before I had my tonsils out, the Doctor made a house call. Last time anyone in the family ever had one. Can you imagine anyone now getting that treatment unless you have some really expensive premium super duper concierge policy?
As for tonsils - is there any Boomer of a certain era who didn’t get their tonsils out?
I made a few dorm and sorority house calls when inspecting several coed tonsils. And I didn't charge a thing. And I still have my tonsils. Thanks for asking! :)
 
Welcome to the Psychiatric Hotline.
If you have multiple personalities, press 3, 4, 5, and 6.
If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will be transferred to the mother ship.
If you are dyslexic, press 969696969696.
If you are blond, don't press any buttons, you'll just mess it up.
If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what you want. Stay on the line so we can trace the your call, come to your home and finally capture you.
This is Frasier Crane and I'm listening..... :)
 
I still have my tonsils despite many bouts of tonsillitis and strep throat when I was younger.
 
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