Westworld

[GoNolesTX]

I thought about the possibility of Ford creating a clone of himself as a host. Like Bernard, he's very cold, emotionless, calculating, and seems to prefer the company of hosts over humans.

The other thing I always thought was weird was how he controlled hosts via his mind ... much like Maeve is doing right now. I suppose there could be mind-control capability, where humans can plug into the system, but we have not seen that to be the case yet. Everyone is running around with those tablets.

Food for thought.

That could also tie into the whole "code" obsession from Delos. And the idea that if they close the park, then Ford would die since he's 100% dependent on the park for his survival ...

As far as the lack of emotion from Ford though, how factual/historically accurate was the portrayal of the Ford Family that Arnold made for him as a gift? The father didn't seem too attached to Young Bobby Ford, so maybe that type of upbringing is what could/would spawn the lack of compassion or emotion from Later Years Bob Ford. I know, that's a Tribe type question and train of thinking. Dammit.

That food for thought is very well based though.

 

[nynole1]

I thought about the possibility of Ford creating a clone of himself as a host. Like Bernard, he's very cold, emotionless, calculating, and seems to prefer the company of hosts over humans.

The other thing I always thought was weird was how he controlled hosts via his mind ... much like Maeve is doing right now. I suppose there could be mind-control capability, where humans can plug into the system, but we have not seen that to be the case yet. Everyone is running around with those tablets.

Food for thought.

That could also tie into the whole "code" obsession from Delos. And the idea that if they close the park, then Ford would die since he's 100% dependent on the park for his survival ...

I wondered about Ford's communication aspect as well. Could be anything: he could have an implant or maybe he just has key words to control the hosts.

 

[NDallasRuss]

As far as the lack of emotion from Ford though, how factual/historically accurate was the portrayal of the Ford Family that Arnold made for him as a gift? The father didn't seem too attached to Young Bobby Ford, so maybe that type of upbringing is what could/would spawn the lack of compassion or emotion from Later Years Bob Ford. I know, that's a Tribe type question and train of thinking. Dammit.

That food for thought is very well based though.

Or maybe it's that the decades of seeing the hosts get raped and mutilated have completely desensitized him to anything that would cause compassion, guilt, sadness, etc in anyone else.

Perhaps while he thinks that it's bad for others to humanize the hosts and attribute human emotions to them, the converse is also true: that too much exposure to the non-human hosts has hurt his compassion for actual humans.

 

[Random_John]

I think it would it be interesting for Ford to actually be Arnold since no one knows what Arnold looks like. It stands to reason that no one truly knows what Ford looks like.

 

[HulaNole]

The MiB knew, didn't he?

 

[dmm5157]

The MiB knew, didn't he?

MiB does call him Robert when they meet inside that bar. That implies he knows him. But technically, Ford could have made up the name and identity ... although I don't believe Ford = Arnold. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Cubman777]

Is it possible that Ford is a host? He reveres them and says as much in a sense during his conversation with Bernard. I think he views them as the next step in evolution, so it would surprise me if he built himself a new body and transplanted his mind into it.
Keep in mind, I only watch episodes once and don't read anything about them afterward except on this board, so I could be completely wrong!

Ford could definitely be a host. He may have been Arnold's "Bernard." We know that Bernard is growing increasingly pissed with Ford. Bernard could take Ford out and become the new Ford with Maeve taking over Bernard's role. Probably not, but I could see it happening, too.

 

[BelemNole]

MiB said he was a titan of industry and his daughter hated him. William is a worker bee marrying the daughter of a powerful man correct? Could the MiB be Williams FIL?

 

[ericram]

MiB said he was a titan of industry and his daughter hated him. William is a worker bee marrying the daughter of a powerful man correct? Could the MiB be Williams FIL?

I have said before and will say it again, I do not believe nerd William could be the bad ass MIB.

 

[DanC78]

I think it would it be interesting for Ford to actually be Arnold since no one knows what Arnold looks like. It stands to reason that no one truly knows what Ford looks like.

For sure...One of his last lines before the Sopranos chick died was something along the lines of 'Im everyone' or 'I am Westworld'....something obvious like that.

 

[HulaNole]

before the Sopranos chick died

Never change!

 

[Zeek99]

I just finished the last episode. Does anyone else think that we are building to the Wyatt reveal to be Dolores? Maybe she is the one that killed Arnold and went on a rampage. MiB said that Teddy is here to lose and Ford gave Teddy the narrative to kill Wyatt to be with Dolores. His objective will be to kill Dolores so that he can be with Dolores. Lose Lose. It would also be interesting to see if maybe Arnold uploaded part of his consciousness to Dolores before she killed him so that Ford couldn't get to him and he could carry out his plan.

The episode also seemed to confirmed that there are at least 3 timelines with the blonde host. Park opening (35 yrs), William and Dolores (@30yrs) and Maeve + MiB (Present).

 

[ericram]

I just finished the last episode. Does anyone else think that we are building to the Wyatt reveal to be Dolores? Maybe she is the one that killed Arnold and went on a rampage. MiB said that Teddy is here to lose and Ford gave Teddy the narrative to kill Wyatt to be with Dolores. His objective will be to kill Dolores so that he can be with Dolores. Lose Lose. It would also be interesting to see if maybe Arnold uploaded part of his consciousness to Dolores before she killed him so that Ford couldn't get to him and he could carry out his plan.

The episode also seemed to confirmed that there are at least 3 timelines with the blonde host. Park opening (35 yrs), William and Dolores (@30yrs) and Maeve + MiB (Present).

Interesting theory. I sure hope that we resolve most of the plot lines before the season finale.

 

[Rhino_nole]

Interesting theory. I sure hope that we resolve most of the plot lines before the season finale.

The writer and show creator stated there would be no cliff hangers.

 

[dmm5157]

I just finished the last episode. Does anyone else think that we are building to the Wyatt reveal to be Dolores? Maybe she is the one that killed Arnold and went on a rampage. MiB said that Teddy is here to lose and Ford gave Teddy the narrative to kill Wyatt to be with Dolores. His objective will be to kill Dolores so that he can be with Dolores. Lose Lose. It would also be interesting to see if maybe Arnold uploaded part of his consciousness to Dolores before she killed him so that Ford couldn't get to him and he could carry out his plan.

The episode also seemed to confirmed that there are at least 3 timelines with the blonde host. Park opening (35 yrs), William and Dolores (@30yrs) and Maeve + MiB (Present).

What is the different between your timeline 1 and 2 above? When do we see the park opening? We see her when William arrives, that would be #2 in your statement above. And then we see her as the lure in Wyatt's group in #3 above.

It would seem that if there were 3 potential timelines, it would be:

1. Approx 30 years back: William, Delores, Early logo of Westworld, etc
2. Man in Black and Teddy looking for maze (possibly recent past)
3. Maeve/Clementine/Theresa/Bernard/Ford (possibly present).

As far as I can tell, there's no way to figure out if what I've outlined as 2 and 3 above are actually in different time periods or not. Both 2 and 3 have the newer Westworld logo, so both could be happening at same time or relatively close timelines. The only people that tie those timelines together are Ford and Bernard, and they both look the same. Maeve has been around a while, so there's no way to tell if those interactions are happening at the same time or different times.

 

[Rhino_nole]

What is the different between your timeline 1 and 2 above? When do we see the park opening? We see her when William arrives, that would be #2 in your statement above. And then we see her as the lure in Wyatt's group in #3 above.

It would seem that if there were 3 potential timelines, it would be:

1. Approx 30 years back: William, Delores, Early logo of Westworld, etc
2. Man in Black and Teddy looking for maze (possibly recent past)
3. Maeve/Clementine/Theresa/Bernard/Ford (possibly present).

As far as I can tell, there's no way to figure out if what I've outlined as 2 and 3 above are actually in different time periods or not. Both 2 and 3 have the newer Westworld logo, so both could be happening at same time or relatively close timelines. The only people that tie those timelines together are Ford and Bernard, and they both look the same. Maeve has been around a while, so there's no way to tell if those interactions are happening at the same time or different times.

The Turing Test timeline is a few years ahead of your #1, the church wasn't buried then (it was when Dolores and William show up). Maeve was learning some new dance moves, Arnold was still alive and some of the host were still glitch. I also think that whenever we see Bernard talking to Dolores, that's the Turing Test timeline (35-40 years ago). It's also interesting to note that the timeframe of Arnold's demise has shifted based on dialogue from various people from 30 to 40 years.

 

[vevois23]

What is the different between your timeline 1 and 2 above? When do we see the park opening? We see her when William arrives, that would be #2 in your statement above. And then we see her as the lure in Wyatt's group in #3 above.

It would seem that if there were 3 potential timelines, it would be:

1. Approx 30 years back: William, Delores, Early logo of Westworld, etc
2. Man in Black and Teddy looking for maze (possibly recent past)
3. Maeve/Clementine/Theresa/Bernard/Ford (possibly present).

As far as I can tell, there's no way to figure out if what I've outlined as 2 and 3 above are actually in different time periods or not. Both 2 and 3 have the newer Westworld logo, so both could be happening at same time or relatively close timelines. The only people that tie those timelines together are Ford and Bernard, and they both look the same. Maeve has been around a while, so there's no way to tell if those interactions are happening at the same time or different times.

I think your #2 is after your #3. The horde that they run in to was discussed in Ep2 or 3 as something that would go in to production when the other writer was trying to build a new narrative. I think that portion was grabbed by Ford and implemented for his Wyatt story.

 

[dmm5157]

I think your #2 is after your #3. The horde that they run in to was discussed in Ep2 or 3 as something that would go in to production when the other writer was trying to build a new narrative. I think that portion was grabbed by Ford and implemented for his Wyatt story.

Charlotte (corporate Delos lady) walks past the horde timeline info and the british narrative writer after Theresa is killed in the last episode, so yeah that means #2 happens after #3, but both are recent (possibly same timeline) as Clementine was killed just before Theresa was killed and Maeve sees the new Clementime around the same time she's messing with the two idiots.

@Rhino_nole Was that just a single incident or is there actual storyline at that timeline?

 

[Random_John]

Have we ever figured out why the maze logo was inside the scalp of the host?

 

[44DaCuse44]

Sorry if this has been discussed a few pages back.

But what's the plan with the dead corpse in the basement? I'm assuming Ford will now turn her into a host and send her back to work. He can't just leave her down there. Some one would have to know she is missing, right??

Fairly certain the animation that's going on with the "old" machine is him creating an AI form of Theresa. As for the corpse... incinerate is the only logical thing I can think of. But this show has demonstrated that our logic isn't quite the same as futuristic logic.

I think we're beyond this, since Theresa has been publicly acknowledged as dead while Elise(?) is thought to be "on vacation". So it's likely that Ford will create a host Elise, who is promoted to take over QA when she returns from vacation, increasing his control over another part of the operation.

Other disjointed thoughts since I finally caught up watching the episodes and just read this thread in it's entirety now...

Love the multi-timeline and William=MIB theories, which I will now need to rewatch to look for clues. My only concern is that it seems that the hosts overcoming their programming seems to be a new issue in the latest potential timeline, while Delores seems to be doing it in the earliest period.

Not as sure about the Bernard=AI Arnold theory. As a 30-year employee, he would need to age while working there, unless the rest of the staff have come and gone in much shorter time periods.

Corporate opinion is that Ford is getting old and starting to lose it. While we see that he still has more control than they think, they could be partially right. Which would explain why he doesn't pay any notice to the Maeve situation. Or the additional intelligence that the techs gave her allowed her to override any code that would transmit to Ford.

I hope they don't go overboard and use the "Surprise - Person X is actually a host!" as a plot device whenever convenient. Unless the endgame is that everyone (hosts and guests and WW staff) are AI in a time after the machines have taken over.

 

[Von2817]

I noticed the phrase "much obliged" used by William and MIB while re-watching so I did a search to see if there was any significance..http://www.purefandom.com/2016/10/31/westworld-1x05-recap-contrapasso/ I think it stuck out because I couldn't recall any other characters, more importantly guests, saying it in previous episodes.

 

[DanC78]

Questions/theories/thoughts etc after watching episode 9.

William sees Delores feel real life like emotions while at the camp site when he is tied to chair.
MiB said he didn't see host feel/have a life like emotion until he killed Maevs daughter. So this has me thinking they are not same person, no?

MiB said in a scene a couple weeks ago that when you would cut the host open in the early days of the park (before his wife died) they had machine like parts. But now when you cut them open it's much more real inside them, and the reason for that was so that the park could save money. So maybe the timeline theory is still correct?

I thought that maybe Logan (Will's brother in law) ends up being MiB and William gets killed. Because they did refer to an "incident" where someone died in an early episode, right?

And Logan does wear black and is a member of the board, or "has connections". And he also cut Delores open and you could clearly see the machine like parts, giving reason to believe his timeline in the show is in the past. But what throws me off with that theory is that MiB said he never really killed anyone until after he was old and wife had died and decided to gut Maeve's daughter and Logan is a killing machine. But we now clearly know that if there is a timeline MiB is in the present being he met the Boardroom chick.

Lastly, Delores killed Arnold, right?

IDK...again, all guesses amd theories. Just having fun with show before season finale.

 

[dmm5157]

Questions/theories/thoughts etc after watching episode 9.

William sees Delores feel real life like emotions while at the camp site when he is tied to chair.
MiB said he didn't see host feel/have a life like emotion until he killed Maevs daughter. So this has me thinking they are not same person, no?

MiB said in a scene a couple weeks ago that when you would cut the host open in the early days of the park (before his wife died) they had machine like parts. But now when you cut them open it's much more real inside them, and the reason for that was so that the park could save money. So maybe the timeline theory is still correct?

I thought that maybe Logan (Will's brother in law) ends up being MiB and William gets killed. Because they did refer to an "incident" where someone died in an early episode, right?

And Logan does wear black and is a member of the board, or "has connections". And he also cut Delores open and you could clearly see the machine like parts, giving reason to believe his timeline in the show is in the past. But what throws me off with that theory is that MiB said he never really killed anyone until after he was old and wife had died and decided to gut Maeve's daughter and Logan is a killing machine. But we now clearly know that if there is a timeline MiB is in the present being he met the Boardroom chick.

Lastly, Delores killed Arnold, right?

IDK...again, all guesses amd theories. Just having fun with show before season finale.

There is no question that there are multiple timelines. The town was not covered in sand in the time of William and Logan, but it's covered in sand when Ford sees it when he runs into his younger clone.

Also, all the parts of the hosts that William cuts up are machine parts, not realistic looking body parts as you can see the metal pieces still moving from the dismembered limbs.

It would seem there are still lots of signs pointing to William being MiB.

Not a ton of surprises in the episode. Did confirm a few things.

• Ford/Bernard/Charlotte/MIB are all in the present, as confirmed by interactions with Charlotte.
• Bernard is indeed an Arnold clone (or homage)
• Delores is the one that killed Arnold
• Elsie is indeed dead.

 

[Wizzle_23]

I have said before and will say it again, I do not believe nerd William could be the bad ass MIB.

You ready to admit tMiB is William , yet?

 

[Wizzle_23]

Maybe she is the one that killed Arnold

Way to go Zeke, but do we think Teddy is Wyatt or led to the Wyatt character being created?

 

[Wizzle_23]

There is no question that there are multiple timelines. The town was not covered in sand in the time of William and Logan, but it's covered in sand when Ford sees it when he runs into his younger clone.

Also, all the parts of the hosts that William cuts up are machine parts, not realistic looking body parts as you can see the metal pieces still moving from the dismembered limbs.

It would seem there are still lots of signs pointing to William being MiB.

Not a ton of surprises in the episode. Did confirm a few things.

• Ford/Bernard/Charlotte/MIB are all in the present, as confirmed by interactions with Charlotte.
• Bernard is indeed an Arnold clone (or homage)
• Delores is the one that killed Arnold
  
• Elsie is indeed dead.

I am not sold on these two, The security guy went looking for Elsie, I think Bernard could have saved her, somehow.
On the first point, What does killed mean... Could she have saved him and did not, or could she have went to Ford and Ford "killed" him. I think there are other possibilities. Seems to neat.

 

[dmm5157]

I am not sold on these two, The security guy went looking for Elsie, I think Bernard could have saved her, somehow.
On the first point, What does killed mean... Could she have saved him and did not, or could she have went to Ford and Ford "killed" him. I think there are other possibilities. Seems to neat.

On Elsie, it's possible she's still alive.

On Delores killing Arnold, I only say that because those are the exact words Delores uses she says he can't help her: "because you're dead. You're just a memory because I killed you". I suppose she could have been metaphorical but not sure what the point would be there.

 

[44DaCuse44]

Way to go Zeke, but do we think Teddy is Wyatt or led to the Wyatt character being created?

They showed A Wyatt in Teddy's flashback as a Union soldier, but I don't see that as the Big Bad that they are alluding to. I think that ultimately, MiB will have a final showdown with an old Logan, who has become the leader of a hidden/forbidden part of the game.

I'm also starting to think that we are trying too hard to compartmentalize everything into a limited set of eras (Young William / Old MiB / Maeve becoming sentient, ...) and that the scenes we see are all separated along the entire timeline of WW and not part of just a couple key periods. Even scenes with the same characters could be during different, but similiar, iterations of the story arc.

 

[Wizzle_23]

They showed A Wyatt in Teddy's flashback as a Union soldier, but I don't see that as the Big Bad that they are alluding to. I think that ultimately, MiB will have a final showdown with an old Logan, who has become the leader of a hidden/forbidden part of the game.

I'm also starting to think that we are trying too hard to compartmentalize everything into a limited set of eras (Young William / Old MiB / Maeve becoming sentient, ...) and that the scenes we see are all separated along the entire timeline of WW and not part of just a couple key periods. Even scenes with the same characters could be during different, but similiar, iterations of the story arc.

Have you watched the episode from last night?

 

[Zeek99]

They showed A Wyatt in Teddy's flashback as a Union soldier, but I don't see that as the Big Bad that they are alluding to. I think that ultimately, MiB will have a final showdown with an old Logan, who has become the leader of a hidden/forbidden part of the game.

I'm also starting to think that we are trying too hard to compartmentalize everything into a limited set of eras (Young William / Old MiB / Maeve becoming sentient, ...) and that the scenes we see are all separated along the entire timeline of WW and not part of just a couple key periods. Even scenes with the same characters could be during different, but similiar, iterations of the story arc.

I still think that Dolores is Wyatt. A little more so after this episode. I think that Teddy's mind is protecting him by showing somebody else as Wyatt instead of Dolores. He said that he and Wyatt killed every soldier then Wyatt killed the General and then he turned on me. It would make sense that Dolores is Wyatt, the soldiers are the towns people and Arnold is the General. Still not sure what role Teddy plays in all of this. Why he is also killing people. Maybe Dolores or Arnold made him do it. Still not sure the significance.

Side note. Did any catch the photo that Logan showed William of his fiancé? I'll have to go back and check, but it looked like the one Dolores' father found that made him go crazy.

 

[dmm5157]

Side note. Did any catch the photo that Logan showed William of his fiancé? I'll have to go back and check, but it looked like the one Dolores' father found that made him go crazy.

Yes, forgot about that. It's definitely the same photo

 

[DanC78]

I don't see how William is MiB because of the attachment William has to Delores.

MiB was clear that he never thought they could have emotion until he saw Maeve morn her daughter.

This myth has to be debunked because of this????

 

[dmm5157]

I don't see how William is MiB because of the attachment William has to Delores.

MiB was clear that he never thought they could have emotion until he saw Maeve morn her daughter.

This myth has to be debunked because of this????

I didn't get that impression at all. Since we haven't seen what happens in the finale, not sure what will become of William/Delores's relationship. So much of what MiB said in previous conversations (about the hosts being made of beautiful mechanical parts and how he cut one open long ago, etc) seemed to match what William is going through now.

Fan sites seem to think last night's episode confirmed that William is indeed MiB.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ur-major-theories_us_583c2ab2e4b09b605601117f

4. William is the Man in Black (basically confirmed)

As if we needed more proof, Episode 9 reinforced that William is the same person as the Man in Black. They’re just 30 years apart.

Earlier in the series, we hear the Man in Black say he once saw a host opened up before they became more flesh and blood. In the latest episode, we see Logan show William that Dolores has mechanical insides by cutting her open.

That incident basically confirms William’s story is set in the past.

We also know that William’s company is considering a major stake in Westworld and that the park might not be doing great financially.

In the episode, we learn that the Man in Black is on Westworld’s board and he kept Ford in business years ago. ​

It's still possible MiB is Logan or even someone else, but it would seem MiB has some connection to William/Logan, at the very least.

 

[DanC78]

I didn't get that impression at all. Since we haven't seen what happens in the finale, not sure what will become of William/Delores's relationship. So much of what MiB said in previous conversations (about the hosts being made of beautiful mechanical parts and how he cut one open long ago, etc) seemed to match what William is going through now.

Fan sites seem to think last night's episode confirmed that William is indeed MiB.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ur-major-theories_us_583c2ab2e4b09b605601117f

4. William is the Man in Black (basically confirmed)

As if we needed more proof, Episode 9 reinforced that William is the same person as the Man in Black. They’re just 30 years apart.

Earlier in the series, we hear the Man in Black say he once saw a host opened up before they became more flesh and blood. In the latest episode, we see Logan show William that Dolores has mechanical insides by cutting her open.

That incident basically confirms William’s story is set in the past.

We also know that William’s company is considering a major stake in Westworld and that the park might not be doing great financially.

In the episode, we learn that the Man in Black is on Westworld’s board and he kept Ford in business years ago. ​

It's still possible MiB is Logan or even someone else, but it would seem MiB has some connection to William/Logan, at the very least.

See, I thought the exact opposite. I thought MiB description to Teddy about The day he saw Maeve grieve completely contridicted Williams experience with Delores...Other than that it does seem that all signs point to William being MiB. I'm sure this is the case as well, I normally always get these things wrong.

 

[Random_John]

I kept expecting Maeve to say something along the lines of this to the hosts that she is recruiting

 

[Random_John]

I also believe that Billy is Wyatt as he has no problems dismembering hosts. Ford creates the Wyatt narative to always kill off the sentient hosts and reset them to zero. I believe that some how Billy gets killed by Delores and that becomes "the incident". I believe Logan is the MiB.

I have no idea why Maeve is allowed to do what she's doing unless it's all part of the new narrative set up by Ford kill board members who oppose him.

 

[ericram]

You ready to admit tMiB is William , yet?

Holding out hope but if it does come to fruition, worst casting choices ever.

 

[ericram]

So how many people are actually Hosts in this world?

Also does anyone think that Hector is Logan? They look a lot alike (unlike William and the MIB), and Delores cut Logan's face almost the same place that Hector has a scar.

 

[Random_John]

Logan's cut is horizontal and Hector has a vertical scar

 

[Wizzle_23]

So how many people are actually Hosts in this world?

Also does anyone think that Hector is Logan? They look a lot alike (unlike William and the MIB), and Delores cut Logan's face almost the same place that Hector has a scar.

They are different actors too.