2018 NBA Playoffs-

[RangerNole]

I loathe the idea of players taking pay cuts to create super teams.

It’s bad for the league, bad for labor, bad for the fans.

Isn't the idea of being a team to be the best and win championships? I am not saying league minimum; but what about a little less so you get a role player who can come in and make a difference. Whether offense or defense.
Yes Lebron has won some titles. 2 with a super team he complained about when his super team went away and the other when one of the most important players on the opponent he was playing was suspended; right or wrong on the suspension, it made an impact.
It is not just super teams but creating a winning team. In order to do that you need quality management, quality coaching and quality players who understand the system and team concept. I don't think Lebron gets that.

 

[OrlandNole]

Isn't the idea of being a team to be the best and win championships? I am not saying league minimum; but what about a little less so you get a role player who can come in and make a difference. Whether offense or defense.
Yes Lebron has won some titles. 2 with a super team he complained about when his super team went away and the other when one of the most important players on the opponent he was playing was suspended; right or wrong on the suspension, it made an impact.
It is not just super teams but creating a winning team. In order to do that you need quality management, quality coaching and quality players who understand the system and team concept. I don't think Lebron gets that.

Unless you’re LeBron, in which the goal is to be the GOAT. I’m pretty confident that joining the Warriors would negate that argument.

 

[RangerNole]

Unless you’re LeBron, in which the goal is to be the GOAT. I’m pretty confident that joining the Warriors would negate that argument.

I don't think he should join the warriors. My point was why isn't Lebron getting a team together that can compete. He is a control freak that thinks he knows how everything can go; mainly because in the one thing he is best at he can control things. The problem is he doesn't know how to be a team mate and just play the game.

 

[DFSNOLE]

Isn't the idea of being a team to be the best and win championships? I am not saying league minimum; but what about a little less so you get a role player who can come in and make a difference. Whether offense or defense.
Yes Lebron has won some titles. 2 with a super team he complained about when his super team went away and the other when one of the most important players on the opponent he was playing was suspended; right or wrong on the suspension, it made an impact.
It is not just super teams but creating a winning team. In order to do that you need quality management, quality coaching and quality players who understand the system and team concept. I don't think Lebron gets that.

Lebron could personally finance the research that finds the cure for cancer and you'd still find a way to criticize him.

"With all of his resources, Lebron should've donated that money earlier. Think of all the lives he cost by being selfish." RangerNole

 

[southgateNOLE]

Didn’t Lebron take a pay cut when he joined the Heat?

 

[ohio#1nolefan]

I'm not a big fan of LBJ but I believe he just recently(maybe when he went back to Clev.) became the highest paid on the team for the 1st time in his career..
The premise of taking less to win makes sense to me BUT these guys have enormous egos and taking less compared to say a Ben Simmons or Harden or whoever, may not be an option for LBJ at this time in his career. Pretty sure Kobe fleeced the Lakers for the last few years.

 

[ohio#1nolefan]

LBJ NBA contract was $33.285 mil this year.
$11.899m fed taxes
$2.163m city/state/local taxes
$947,310 agent
$18,000 401k ...eyeroll included
$3.328m for NBA escrow- 10% fee players pay for basketball related expenses that players and owners split... Who the hell even knew this was a thing?

He made an add'l $1.619m and $188k for the team/NBA exceeding forecasted revenues..

A $16.737m net from basketball..

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Owners can exceed the salary cap and pay the luxury tax to get players at or very close to their market rate.

 

[southgateNOLE]

LBJ NBA contract was $33.285 mil this year.
$11.899m fed taxes
$2.163m city/state/local taxes
$947,310 agent
$18,000 401k ...eyeroll included
$3.328m for NBA escrow- 10% fee players pay for basketball related expenses that players and owners split... Who the hell even knew this was a thing?

He made an add'l $1.619m and $188k for the team/NBA exceeding forecasted revenues..

A $16.737m net from basketball..

I’ll take it.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Owners can exceed the salary cap and pay the luxury tax to get players at or very close to their market rate.

I don’t believe it to be that simple. They can exceed the salary cap in certain situations but some billionaire owner can’t go full New York Yankees.

 

[OrlandNole]

LBJ NBA contract was $33.285 mil this year.
$11.899m fed taxes
$2.163m city/state/local taxes
$947,310 agent
$18,000 401k ...eyeroll included
$3.328m for NBA escrow- 10% fee players pay for basketball related expenses that players and owners split... Who the hell even knew this was a thing?

He made an add'l $1.619m and $188k for the team/NBA exceeding forecasted revenues..

A $16.737m net from basketball..

Salary, of course, is only part of the picture. LeBron will make another $55 million in endorsements this year. That doesn't include his other business ventures, such a Blaze Pizza.

https://www.forbes.com/profile/lebron-james/

 

[dmm5157]

I don’t believe it to be that simple. They can exceed the salary cap in certain situations but some billionaire owner can’t go full New York Yankees.

Ummm, that did happen. The rules have changed a bit, but it has indeed happened.

See 2013-2014 Brooklyn Nets $90 million luxury tax. It's a cautionary tale, as it flat out did not work out well for them. Paying more doesn't mean getting more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11196384/brooklyn-nets-pay-record-luxury-tax-salary-cap-set

Back then, the salary cap was $63 million and the luxury tax line was $76.8 million. The Nets team salary was $102 million, resulting in over $90 million in luxury tax..

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/brooklyn-nets-team-salary/brooklyn-nets-salary-archive-201314/

Name 2013-14
Joe Johnson $21,466,718
Deron Williams $18,466,130
Paul Pierce $15,333,334
Brook Lopez $14,693,906
Kevin Garnett $12,433,735
Marcus Thornton $8,050,000
Mirza Teletovic $3,229,050
Andrei Kirilenko $3,183,000
Andray Blatche $1,375,604
Mason Plumlee $1,298,640
Marquis Teague $1,074,720
Alan Anderson $947,907
Shaun Livingston $884,293
Jason Collins $171,657
Jorge Gutierrez $57,668
Jason Collins (waived) $52,017
Jason Collins (waived) $52,017
Jorge Gutierrez (waived) $28,834
Jorge Gutierrez (waived) $28,834
Total $102,828,064

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I don’t believe it to be that simple. They can exceed the salary cap in certain situations but some billionaire owner can’t go full New York Yankees.

They can exceed the salary cap by about $20m in most years.

Looked it up and seems like in any given year only about 7 of 30 teams utilize their option to play the luxury tax.

 

[dmm5157]

They can exceed the salary cap by about $20m in most years.

Looked it up and seems like in any given year only about 7 of 30 teams utilize their option to play the luxury tax.

Also, I see that 2015-16 Cavs team paid $54 million in luxury tax the year they won the title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_tax_(sports)

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Also, I see that 2015-16 Cavs team paid $54 million in luxury tax the year they won the title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_tax_(sports)

Yep 9 out of the last 11 teams to win the title paid the luxury tax.
If only 23% of owners are willing to pay the luxury tax, you basically know who's trying to win titles and who's just hanging out, barely trying, and cashing league checks.

And then you have the Knicks and Nets who'll pay the tax and totally suck anyway.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Yep 9 out of the last 11 teams to win the title paid the luxury tax.
If only 23% of owners are willing to pay the luxury tax, you basically know who's trying to win titles and who's just hanging out, barely trying, and cashing league checks.

And then you have the Knicks and Nets who'll pay the tax and totally suck anyway.

I don’t know if I agree with this notion. I think most owners like Dan Gilbert will pay the luxury tax if it means adding that extra piece or two for a title. But if you’re the Magic should you sign guys for the sake of signing them?

 

[ReliableOstrich]

I don’t know if I agree with this notion. I think most owners like Dan Gilbert will pay the luxury tax if it means adding that extra piece or two for a title. But if you’re the Magic should you sign guys for the sake of signing them?

Not advocating signing guys for the sake of it but plenty of owners have made a commitment not to winning but instead to cost reductions.

You can't win in this league without good ownership that is willing to spend a lot when it makes sense and a good front office that doesn't ask ownership to spend on stupid stuff.

 

[DFSNOLE]

This might be a little excessive.

 

[Fijimn]

This might be a little excessive.

View embedded media

Sounds like a Tuesday night...hey now

 

[DFSNOLE]

Sounds a Tuesday night...hey now

Only if you're including the hookers and blow.

 

[Fijimn]

Only if you're including the hookers and blow.

I said Tuesday...not Thursday

 

[ReliableOstrich]

This might be a little excessive.

View embedded media

My guess is they didn't pay retail and it was provided either free or at a significant discount by Moet. Note the paid partnership post made by the Ws tagging Moet.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Love <3s Lebron

 

[QuaZ2002]

I honestly think LeBron would rather stay in Cleveland but it just seems impossible with how little roster flexibility they have. They took on a couple awful contracts in George Hill (who was a pretty huge bust for them) and Clarkson (who's dreadful). Not to mention the Thompson and JR contracts.

 

[RangerNole]

Lebron could personally finance the research that finds the cure for cancer and you'd still find a way to criticize him.

"With all of his resources, Lebron should've donated that money earlier. Think of all the lives he cost by being selfish." RangerNole

If it comes off that way it is not intentional. My only point or question is how can teams like GS, Houston, Boston and maybe SA put together teams that are competitive have enough stars and play bball that is more team focused. Each of these teams have different guys step up, have role players that make big contributions when needed, have a style of play that gets guys involved. While a different time frame the old Boston, Lakers and Bulls did the same thing.
I am sure not all of this is on Lebron, but I also know if Lebron wants you on his team you stay and if not then you likely are gone. Why did the Heat star team only last a few years?
When I hear where Lebron might go I think is that really that much better than adding and subtracting a few pieces from what he has in Cleveland? We hear Philly, ok but are they better than Boston or Toronto by just adding Lebron? Theyt certainly aren't better than Houston or GS. I hear the Lakers, ok how long does that team take to mesh, is George, maybe Khawi enough and do they get out of the west?
Lebron will make any team he goes to better; but good enough to win a title? IMO Cleveland is really only a good, not great point guard and a few solid role players away. So how is going anywhere other than maybe Boston, Houston and GS make whatever team he goes to a top 3 team in the NBA.

 

[RangerNole]

I honestly think LeBron would rather stay in Cleveland but it just seems impossible with how little roster flexibility they have. They took on a couple awful contracts in George Hill (who was a pretty huge bust for them) and Clarkson (who's dreadful). Not to mention the Thompson and JR contracts.

Not an NBA expert, but from what I remember JR and Thompson are on Lebron. I think George Hill has talent but needs to be put in the right system. I don't know much about Clarkson. Korver seems either miss used or not able to play in a big moment

 

[West Duval Nole]

I honestly think LeBron would rather stay in Cleveland but it just seems impossible with how little roster flexibility they have. They took on a couple awful contracts in George Hill (who was a pretty huge bust for them) and Clarkson (who's dreadful). Not to mention the Thompson and JR contracts.

Wait and you don't think LeBron gave his blessing before they did that? Along with Isiah Thomas, Dwayne Wade and Derrick Rose. Would he rather have had Andrew Wiggins? Because they traded him away for Kevin Love. Because Bron didn't want to chance it with a young guy with potential. He wanted someone proven in Love. If he doesn't like the roster, I can't imagine what exactly he expects them to churn every year. They have made the moves possible and certainly I have to believe they cleared it with LeBron or heck asked LeBron who he wanted from what was available. Just like having Lue as the coach. You don't think that was Lebron approved? I think that is the point someone made above is Lebron is trying to do too much like being the GM and coach and the player and doesn't want to trust others to do their job or if he did he wouldn't be happy with it thus leaving the Heat. Pat Riley has too big of an ego to have Lebron dictate to him what players to get and who to have as coach. Cleveland owner knew the city wanted Lebron back he would have done anything and everything to get him back and the moves made had Lebron at minimum involved but probably much more on the his requesting the players and moves and would have said I am gone if you don't do it. And the ownership and manager did everything he asked that was possible and it didn't work.

Lebron is the greatest player in the league right now. But he is not without his flaws. It is OK to acknowledge he is the greatest current player but still be aware of his flaws.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Not an NBA expert, but from what I remember JR and Thompson are on Lebron. I think George Hill has talent but needs to be put in the right system. I don't know much about Clarkson. Korver seems either miss used or not able to play in a big moment

LeBron def deserves criticism for JR and TT. Less for TT, IMO, but still some. Korver is what he is, a mid 30s spot up shooter. He works hard but he's a situational role player.

 

[West Duval Nole]

If it comes off that way it is not intentional. My only point or question is how can teams like GS, Houston, Boston and maybe SA put together teams that are competitive have enough stars and play bball that is more team focused. Each of these teams have different guys step up, have role players that make big contributions when needed, have a style of play that gets guys involved. While a different time frame the old Boston, Lakers and Bulls did the same thing.
I am sure not all of this is on Lebron, but I also know if Lebron wants you on his team you stay and if not then you likely are gone. Why did the Heat star team only last a few years?
When I hear where Lebron might go I think is that really that much better than adding and subtracting a few pieces from what he has in Cleveland? We hear Philly, ok but are they better than Boston or Toronto by just adding Lebron? Theyt certainly aren't better than Houston or GS. I hear the Lakers, ok how long does that team take to mesh, is George, maybe Khawi enough and do they get out of the west?
Lebron will make any team he goes to better; but good enough to win a title? IMO Cleveland is really only a good, not great point guard and a few solid role players away. So how is going anywhere other than maybe Boston, Houston and GS make whatever team he goes to a top 3 team in the NBA.

San Antonio if he is willing to not try to walk over Pop and just listen, play and do the system including resting when Pop wants assuming they can keep Kawhi. Sure some of the guys they have are older but they know and trust Pop and the system. It really would be interesting to see what Pop could do with him. Ginobli will not wilt like Koerver even at his age if he plays.

It would be interesting to see if the Lakers got all 3 of Lebron, Kawhi and Paul George without giving up Lonzo or Randle. That is kind of what I would like to see if the Lakers can become relevant again.

 

[QuaZ2002]

Wait and you don't think LeBron gave his blessing before they did that? Along with Isiah Thomas, Dwayne Wade and Derrick Rose. Would he rather have had Andrew Wiggins? Because they traded him away for Kevin Love. Because Bron didn't want to chance it with a young guy with potential. He wanted someone proven in Love. If he doesn't like the roster, I can't imagine what exactly he expects them to churn every year. They have made the moves possible and certainly I have to believe they cleared it with LeBron or heck asked LeBron who he wanted from what was available. Just like having Lue as the coach. You don't think that was Lebron approved? I think that is the point someone made above is Lebron is trying to do too much like being the GM and coach and the player and doesn't want to trust others to do their job or if he did he wouldn't be happy with it thus leaving the Heat. Pat Riley has too big of an ego to have Lebron dictate to him what players to get and who to have as coach. Cleveland owner knew the city wanted Lebron back he would have done anything and everything to get him back and the moves made had Lebron at minimum involved but probably much more on the his requesting the players and moves and would have said I am gone if you don't do it. And the ownership and manager did everything he asked that was possible and it didn't work.

Lebron is the greatest player in the league right now. But he is not without his flaws. It is OK to acknowledge he is the greatest current player but still be aware of his flaws.

No I totally agree with you. They went all in the last four years to win titles at the expense of roster flexibility moving forward. What they didn't anticipate was Durant going to GS and Kyries trade request. I'm guessing no one in the city regrets it but now it's almost certainly over.

 

[RangerNole]

No I totally agree with you. They went all in the last four years to win titles at the expense of roster flexibility moving forward. What they didn't anticipate was Durant going to GS and Kyries trade request. I'm guessing no one in the city regrets it but now it's almost certainly over.

I agree that SA is the best option. Players like Pop, he runs a solid system etc. I just don't think Lebron will listen to Pop and I think there is the issue of getting out of the west as well. This is why I don't get leaving Cleveland is the best plan. Even minor additions give Cleveland a chance to get out of the East and if you get into the finals well you have a shot at least.
I will add that a good coach in Cleveland would make a huge difference. Cleveland looked good at times vs. GS when they played a certain way. They could use a coach that actually had some skills.

 

[seminoleed]

I think what the posters turned off on James are suffering from is the NBA equivalent of "Tiger Woods media overkill." In the same way everything this year has been Tiger this, Tiger that, at the expense of other top players who are actually good, the media seems intent on making it the LBA (Labron Basketball Association). And that's a turnoff for a lot of people.

 

[RangerNole]

I think what the posters turned off on James are suffering from is the NBA equivalent of "Tiger Woods media overkill." In the same way everything this year has been Tiger this, Tiger that, at the expense of other top players who are actually good, the media seems intent on making it the LBA (Labron Basketball Association). And that's a turnoff for a lot of people.

Eh maybe a little of that; but at the same time I see a guy who seems more interested in himself, other endeavors, etc than his team/sport. Yes he is great but he seems to expect people to have his talent and commitment while they are not nearly as set in life as he is.

 

[NoleMoreTears]

Lebron would be a fool to go out west.

 

[West Duval Nole]

Lebron would be a fool to go out west.

Why? Whatever team he chooses to join will be instant contenders to get to the conference finals just like whatever team in the east will get to the conference finals. So sure he may have an easier path in beating the Celtics to get to the finals than taking down Golden State. But does it really matter if he loses to Golden State in the conference finals vs. the Championship series? However, you could argue Golden state will have lest rest going into the conference finals thant the championship finals so he may have a better shot at beating them with less rest.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I think what the posters turned off on James are suffering from is the NBA equivalent of "Tiger Woods media overkill." In the same way everything this year has been Tiger this, Tiger that, at the expense of other top players who are actually good, the media seems intent on making it the LBA (Labron Basketball Association). And that's a turnoff for a lot of people.

I agree with that to a point. Huge difference for me is that Lebron has been nothing but exemplary off the court. Never in trouble, married family man who seems to truly care about his wife and children.
Tiger was an ass on the golf course and was proven to be a bigger one off. He is almost the anti Lebron in that respect.
Where they are similar is that they are both in the discussion for being the GOAT in their sport.

 

[seminoleed]

Good point, DFS. My point, though, was more about media fatigue.

 

[GwinnettNole]

Interesting SI cover from March 10, 1997. I say this because I've been a huge opponent to the GS signing of Kevin Durant, which inevitably is bad for the NBA because no one can touch the warriors.

The difference IMO (and I'm sure someone will have objections to it) is the bulls were a home grown team. The stars, Pippen and MJ grew up in the Chicago system and became stares with them. Even Toni Kukoc was a player that was signed by the bulls as his first NBA team. I know Rodman came free agency but he is on a lower level than MJ, Scottie, Durant or Lebron.
So the equivalent to what is happening today is 3 of those four players in the below picture (Shaq, Grant Hill and Barkley) joining forces together.... Which I believe is what we are seeing today and is bad for the NBA.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

- Why some are turned off by Lebron. I see four possible reasons. 1) still butt hurt by the way he left CLE the first time, 2) perceived media overexposure, 3) his politics / advocacy for social justice (ie he won't 'shut up and dribble' **eyeroll**), 4) the intensity of his style of on-court celebration.

- Going to the Spurs. I agree it would be a good move. Not sure they could make it happen while keeping enough pieces in place to compete for a title. I have no doubt Lebron would operate quite well under Pop's leadership. No coach has ever complained about him.

- I wouldn't equate the current GSW squad to Shaq, Barkely, Hill) playing together. Steph (home grown) and KD (FA) are top 5 talents. Klay and Dray are very good but not on the level of any of the players pictured on that SI cover (ie all time greats).

 

[dmm5157]

Interesting SI cover from March 10, 1997. I say this because I've been a huge opponent to the GS signing of Kevin Durant, which inevitably is bad for the NBA because no one can touch the warriors.

The difference IMO (and I'm sure someone will have objections to it) is the bulls were a home grown team. The stars, Pippen and MJ grew up in the Chicago system and became stares with them. Even Toni Kukoc was a player that was signed by the bulls as his first NBA team. I know Rodman came free agency but he is on a lower level than MJ, Scottie, Durant or Lebron.
So the equivalent to what is happening today is 3 of those four players in the below picture (Shaq, Grant Hill and Barkley) joining forces together.... Which I believe is what we are seeing today and is bad for the NBA.

Is it though? Warriors drafted all but KD so it's not like 3 other stars signing with one. The Warriors drafted well (Green, Thompson, Curry), curated their talent and have players that don't require to be the highest paid (well, outside of Curry). They are the perfect storm of circumstance, as they completely benefited from the new CBA. This won't last, though. It will end soon, just as the Miami "super team" ended sooner than expected.

What you described of the 3 players coming together was what Lebron/Wade/Bosh did back in Miami, not what is happening with the Warriors.