Do you know anyone who is racist?

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

 

[cfbfan23]

I don't see what the big deal is with racists and why there has to be some sort of witch hunt. Same thing with Nazi's, commies, gay people etc etc. Let people be free to be themselves, as long as they don't impose their will, who the hell cares?

Unfortunately, Nazi's and Commies have had a hard time with that "impose their will" part.

 

[BucaNole]

Unfortunately, Nazi's and Commies have had a hard time with that "impose their will" part.

Good thing they got laws against that... If we just enforced laws on the books and let people be, world would be a much simpler place.

 

[Nole Lou]

I don't have enough acquaintances that I run into overt, big-R racists.

I have relatives though that fall into what I think of the small-r racist category, where they don't use the n-word, don't think of themselves as racist, get along with black people just great, but still say things like, "if they want affirmative action, why don't we have affirmative action in the NBA?" and that kind of trope. Not so much racist really as about 25 years behind, politically incorrect, unenlightened, etc. Usually without malice in their heart, but really no effort toward empathy or looking at the view from other sides either. Arguable whether I should think of them as "racist", but it's not like it's well thought out social commentary, it's just that sort of that ignorant or defensive posture toward race, more than hostility.

Racist is such loaded and scarlet letter word, I have trouble thinking of people like that as "racist" anymore, as it's just such heavy label right now. I don't think people like that are demons demanding of ostracizing, which is what being racist demands now. Those people need to continue to be pulled along. But it's definitely a form of racism, and not necessarily all that much more benign than outward hate.

 

[OHNole43123]

Yes

 

[BucaNole]

Like the word Nazi, racist is thrown around so much now that it dilutes the meaning of the word. Folks forget just how bad real racists actually were, again much like Nazi's. Up until about 70 years ago, large scale extermination built around he idea of racial inferiority wasn't all that rare. Forget the elephant in the room regarding the Germans and systematic extermination of Jews and Bolsheviks, look at what just the Japanese did to people they thought inferior.

Now somehow folks think it's okay to call a guy a racist because they didn't get a job. And, even if the claim is legitimate, you can't compare someone that discriminates to a very real evil that is alive and well inside human evolution. Folks cry wolf enough, they turn off large sets of the population that could otherwise prevent something very bad from bubbling to the surface.

I also think Americans can't differentiate between race and class in this country. Race denoted class for much of our history, if you were slavic, Irish, Black, Mexican, you were most likely poor. Whites, who were wealthier in large part, wanted nothing to do with the low class. That more or less got sucked into the notion of racism. In Europe, they had the exact same class structures, just not built on the color of skin or geography. And, what's less known is that the odds of climbing the social hierarchy in Europe were just as difficult there as for a black person here. Hence why so many Europeans migrated to the US in the first place.

 

[gunnyhiway]

have a friend who volunteers weekly at a place where all the kids are minorities. He can laugh at himself and tells jokes that some would be offended by. Does that make him a racist? To me no, actions speak louder than words.

 

[MIKE_G]

I think the point has been made several times already that there is a difference between being a "racist" and possessing racial bias. I think we can generally agree that a racist is someone who denigrates or discriminates against another person simply because of their racial makeup. Using the N-word in a hurtful manner, calling police on someone who looks "suspicious" for no other reason than they are black, etc. Formulating opinions on a person based on their physical appearance (racial in this case) can be harmful, but doesn't make someone a racist necessarily. I think the term racist gets thrown around too casually, and that's a problem. But I think it's a natural reaction to folks who can't admit to their unconscious racial bias.

 

[sunset30a]

We (my wife was with) sat in silence. I don’t know him near well enough to have said anything. His wife was there and I could tell she was embarrassed and she saw that we didn’t find funny, she didnt crack a smile either.

If I knew him well enough I would have said something.

I got in a fist fight with a guy a few years back for saying racist comments to the hibachi chef and then a half racist comment to my wife (she is half Filipino). It was right in the middle of the restaurant. Cops came and everything. They were nice enough to let us go, restaurant owner didn’t want to have anything to do with it either.

I think it's far more interesting to hear about people getting into fist fights in restaurants than the fact that there are racist people running around. By the way, that's the first tine I've used the term fist fight since middle school.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

Umm, I live in the south. I know lots of people who are racist. Many of them are overt about it, some are but won't admit it, and the rest (including myself at times) are just unaware and either willingly blind to the fact or surprised when they learn.

I've learned that I was raised in racism. I grew up in small town America. It was all around me, even from those who were the "Holy" leaders of the church. We weren't in the Klan, but many were right there agreeing with much of it, but still realizing they were pretty extreme.

Today we have this idea that Racism equals the Klan, burning crosses, creating white only places, and so we think as long as we aren't calling people the N-word, aren't advocating for separate spaces, or actively being hostile towards people of color that we must be good and post-racial. Unfortunately that's simply not the case. It's much more subversive than that, and imo, if we're not actively working to root out our own internal racism and then work to be actively anti-racist, that at best we're simply allowing it to continue which MLK often said was worse than the active klan.

Great post.

I apologize Goldie, You are correct that racism is all over. That is a fair pushback. Racism is all over the US. It just takes different forms.

We're all tribal to some degree, and race is one of the things that pushes heavily in tribalism. Anyone who says they are colorblind is simply blind to their own biases and tendencies to segregate good and bad as a result. I try to advocate very loudly for anti-racist work, but I have to constantly be mindful of my own implicit biases and recognize that I'm still racist at times myself. And when I recognize it, I have to intentionally do work to try to counter my own biases until it becomes more natural to walk and talk another way.

And of course other races and nationalities experience that as well. The difference comes down to power vacuums. Racism from people of color towards whites is not going to have the same ability and tendency to harm and marginalize since they don't occupy the power systems to put that in place, whereas racism from white people is more heavily felt since we primarily occupy the majority of the systemic decision making points in America.

Also spot on.

 

[ReliableOstrich]

The spectrum on this is wide and non-binary.

As someone further up said, way out to one side there are big-R racists who think and act with disdain or hate.
A bit over from them are small-r racists who hold intolerant views, maybe ignorant, and might let that guide their actions, devoid of empathy or concern for the other race's humanity.

Then things start to get more grey and rather than dissect or label each group I'll say this.
Everyone has their own implicit biases and things we're ignorant of, that's nothing to be ashamed of, however it's incumbent on each of us to reflect on ourselves and our behaviors to identify those biases, blind spots or actions that were a result of either, and work to be more conscious of and root out those biases, one by one.

Too many decent folks are hyper-defensive when they get called out for acting in a biased/ignorant manner, rather than just saying, "damn, I didn't realize I was doing that / I didn't realize my actions had that impact on others, I'm more aware now and am going to be better about it." Good-hearted, genuine contrition and an effort to be more aware of one's self and the systems around you is easy and the right course of action.

I'll also add that I don't care much for folks who aren't racist and are aware of what's going on but then don't act when they someone speak or act in a racist/biased/prejudiced manner. To me each of us, as humans and as Americans, is responsible for making it known that that behavior is not acceptable. That doesn't mean a fist-fight but it does mean being and adult and saying something that might be a little uncomfortable rather than cowering and letting that person's antipathy become someone else's problem.

 

[Phinhead]

Yes... from every side.

 

[Nole Lou]

I'll also add that I don't care much for folks who aren't racist and are aware of what's going on but then don't act when they someone speak or act in a racist/biased/prejudiced manner. To me each of us, as humans and as Americans, is responsible for making it known that that behavior is not acceptable. That doesn't mean a fist-fight but it does mean being and adult and saying something that might be a little uncomfortable rather than cowering and letting that person's antipathy become someone else's problem.

You know, I appreciate this sentiment, but I'll tell you, I've twice in my life (and only in the south) met people that gave me a bit of pause on jumping on this. Both were young white men who threw around the N word and general racist and racial language in conversation. And in both cases, I later met their best friend, who was a black guy. Not just a buddy, but like literal best friend, call each others' mother "mom", camping together type friends.

I'll be the first to admit I didn't get that, and still don't. Those things are incompatible to me. And to be fair, this was more than ten years ago, where there might have been a little more nuance about how people thought that word could be said by whites. But still...to me that's totally incompatible. But it did give me a little pause about getting on my high horse to necessarily lecture someone from my high horse right off the bat. I wouldn't participate or laugh or encourage it, but probably wouldn't jump all over them until I knew them a little more.

However, that's different from witnessing racial harrassment of somebody, where I definitely do think stepping in is called for.

 

[KitingHigh]

You know, I appreciate this sentiment, but I'll tell you, I've twice in my life (and only in the south) met people that gave me a bit of pause on jumping on this. Both were young white men who threw around the N word and general racist and racial language in conversation. And in both cases, I later met their best friend, who was a black guy. Not just a buddy, but like literal best friend, call each others' mother "mom", camping together type friends.

I'll be the first to admit I didn't get that, and still don't. Those things are incompatible to me. And to be fair, this was more than ten years ago, where there might have been a little more nuance about how people thought that word could be said by whites. But still...to me that's totally incompatible. But it did give me a little pause about getting on my high horse to necessarily lecture someone from my high horse right off the bat. I wouldn't participate or laugh or encourage it, but probably wouldn't jump all over them until I knew them a little more.

However, that's different from witnessing racial harrassment of somebody, where I definitely do think stepping in is called for.

It's actually very interesting. It actually wasn't initially derogatory in its origins but has taken on a life of its own. Meanwhile, terms like Yankee and Coonass where born to be derogatory, but have since been embraced, and Redneck, can easily be taken as an insult or a compliment. And most people don't even know what cracker actually means.

Funny enough, though I am Cajun I've been called the n word more than a coonass and the only term I get offended by is being called a yankee (by Europeans).

 

[RangerNole]

I think the biggest thing we could do as a nation is to not be so easily offended. To me and I am certainly not the norm or study; but IMO there seems to be an industry in being offended. Maybe because there is money, fame or whatever in it, I really don't know. Bottom line if someone or some organization is truly racist then they should be dealt with; but to cry racism at every turn seems to be counter productive. MLK said it best judge people on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Sounds simple, but in my world if you are a piece of crap human being I don't care what color you skin is, where you were born, what religion your are or any other trait you might have. Your just a bad person who best case I have no time for and worse case I would kick your butt. If we did this I honestly feel we would be better off as a culture and nation. But like I said way to simple and of course doesn't allow the instigators a chance to feel important.

 

[KitingHigh]

. MLK said it best judge people on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

He was a great man and he was right.

I think that we have lost that mentality though. We now judge on how many likes or hashtags we get. We now think character is defined by general acceptance or popularity. We praise doing the thing that make it easy and acceptable rather than doing what is right but unpopular. We judge people, not by their motives and character, but instead, how we think we will be judged for our opinion.

Take the Brian Bell story. To this day, people still defend FSU for its actions despite the indisputable fact that he was innocent. Or the recent incident at Academy sports, where the manager indisputably stopped a crime and may have saved lives.

People have regressed. We are no longer evolving from primates. We are devolving into insects.

 

[kc78]

He was a great man and he was right.

I think that we have lost that mentality though. We now judge on how many likes or hashtags we get. We now think character is defined by general acceptance or popularity. We praise doing the thing that make it easy and acceptable rather than doing what is right but unpopular. We judge people, not by their motives and character, but instead, how we think we will be judged for our opinion.

Take the Brian Bell story. To this day, people still defend FSU for its actions despite the indisputable fact that he was innocent. Or the recent incident at Academy sports, where the manager indisputably stopped a crime and may have saved lives.

People have regressed. We are no longer evolving from primates. We are devolving into insects.

He also said the following while sitting in a jail in Birmingham.

"First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

 

[Phinhead]

Now, will someone someone call out some of my favorite shows on Netflix, especially Marvel for hating the white man?

 

[SoddyNole]

You know, I appreciate this sentiment, but I'll tell you, I've twice in my life (and only in the south) met people that gave me a bit of pause on jumping on this. Both were young white men who threw around the N word and general racist and racial language in conversation. And in both cases, I later met their best friend, who was a black guy. Not just a buddy, but like literal best friend, call each others' mother "mom", camping together type friends.

I'll be the first to admit I didn't get that, and still don't. Those things are incompatible to me. And to be fair, this was more than ten years ago, where there might have been a little more nuance about how people thought that word could be said by whites. But still...to me that's totally incompatible. But it did give me a little pause about getting on my high horse to necessarily lecture someone from my high horse right off the bat. I wouldn't participate or laugh or encourage it, but probably wouldn't jump all over them until I knew them a little more.

However, that's different from witnessing racial harrassment of somebody, where I definitely do think stepping in is called for.

Maybe those two people believed their actions carried more weight than the words they were using at that time. Anyone can wax poetic about how their carefully crafted vernacular is bridging the divide and righting wrongs. Successful business owners don't need that dog and pony show. They universally understand there is only one true color and that is green. They have customers, suppliers and staffed by multitudes of minorities all across the spectrum. I think it would be near impossible to live and thrive in the US as a racist filled with hatred. I know some do but that is a lot less than people let on. Friendships go so much deeper than skin color and much of what is in this thread becomes a non issue. I'm sure Ranger can share stories of what is said between soldiers in jest that would melt these boards, don't, but at the drop of a hat anyone of them would give their lives for each other and their country.

Saying all this there is a time and place for how to conduct oneself and most people don't intend to hurt one another but unfortunately we do. I go by the motto don't be a jackass, unless for comedic purposes then it becomes too hard to resist. My earlier post wasn't as much about the reaction of the PJ board and Louisville as much as why they feel the need to knee jerk in this instance. I suspect they are highly influenced by the wordsmith warriors who can easily conjure up a narrative of who this pizza owner is when he can't possibly be a hate filled racist and interact with the amount of people he does on a daily basis. I also can not believe Louisville wanted to tell a huge sponsor to pound rocks nor do I believe the board wanted to take action. They all simply acted based on fear which is but a stones throw from hate.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

I agree that in some cases people overreact to words. However, whenever people complain mightily about our “PC culture” I wonder just what is it that they’re dying to say that society is keeping them from saying.

 

[SoddyNole]

I agree that in some cases people overreact to words. However, whenever people complain mightily about our “PC culture” I wonder just what is it that they’re dying to say that society is keeping them from saying.

What do you mean dying to say? The pizza owner admitted he said what he said.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

What do you mean dying to say? The pizza owner admitted he said what he said.

Just speaking generally, not about Papa John.

 

[SoddyNole]

Just speaking generally, not about Papa John.

No idea and not sure that is a thing. But I am not the person to ask for I don't find people who ramble on about ills of the world all that entertaining. Trying to minimize things to be pissed off on a daily bases works well for me and keeps my blood pressure lower.

 

[Imtotallynottribe]

Now, will someone someone call out some of my favorite shows on Netflix, especially Marvel for hating the white man?

Hating the white man? In their universe the best ninja (Daredevil) and best Kung fu artist (Iron Fist) are late 20s, early 30s yo white guys, not Asians.

 

[jim51109]

I gotta tell ya... I am an IT Security officer that deal a lot with forensics as far as email security, boundary security, sector by sector recover of erased and formatted data. There is just as many young racist as old but have the political corrective persona and act like they aren’t but I have seen it with my own eyes and it’s ironic to me how much people in the south are supposed the most racist. When I was in college(up north) and even in recent times to visit I heard and saw much more racist actions than in the south. The difference is in most of those states the black population is significantly lower and they seem to just accept it.
Racist is also not a black and white thing. The most racist people I have ever met in my life were of Hispanic decent particularly Central and South America. They hated white and black people equally. Haha

 

[Phinhead]

Hating the white man? In their universe the best ninja (Daredevil) and best Kung fu artist (Iron Fist) are late 20s, early 30s yo white guys, not Asians.

I am the worst at thinking everyone is running in my thought bubble.

There was a recent debate about how Marvel has changed for what you stated to now a world where Jeasica Jones can reach orgasm with every race but a white man, the lack of positive white men and preaching about white privilege.

Jessica Jones is by far my favorite character, and I thought most of those thoughts were silly. I did browse back through it after reading, and I just think it's the perspective of the diverse producers and is a different take than what people are perhaps used to.

My original statement was about "can we talk about this" .. Not so much a statement

Apologies

 

[FreeFlyNole]

 

[Finance85]

There are people in the golf association where I was a member that are blatantly racist. They didn't seem to mind making racist comments right in front of me. I'm not sure if their racism was limited, if that's possible, to extremely dark skinned people.

 

[Atoning_Unifex]

The better question is: what do you do when you find yourself in that situation? Do you laugh at the joke in the interest of avoiding a confrontation? Do you make your discomfort clear and scold them? Reactions vary, and some are no better than making the joke is.

That would depend, RRR, how well I knew them. If it were someone I knew fairly well I might be more inclined to call them out. If it were someone I just met I'd be less likely to

 

[Atoning_Unifex]

I really, really don't like this thread. Why?
Several reasons.
No ages of the posters. That's important as it relates to the theme.
References to "of course I live in the South" I've lived all over and I take issue with an assumption like that.

Peace out. Y'all enjoy yourselves.

 

[Atoning_Unifex]

Well Ma'am I fully disclose my age which is 59 and I grew up in a home where my stepfather was virulently racist to the point that if the six o'clock news showed a story about an african american he would change the channel but then his father was a member of the KKK so maybe he had no chance. I maintain in general the south is far less truly racist than other regions because in the south both races are much less financially than , umm let's say Boston