ADVERTISEMENT

Mariota

Who was picked first overall, Jameis or Marcus?

Yes we can say who is better right bow. All the info from Tampa was they didn't waver in picking Winston. He was the pick the entire time. They thought Winston was better.

I believe you said you were a fan of the gators months ago. Your projecting.

I am not talking about the Gators in any way shape or form, so what does that have to do with anything?

And really? Who was picked first is the argument? So the 6 QBs taken ahead of Tom Brady are better? Alex Smith is better than Aaron Rodgers because he was drafted higher? Jamarcus Russell is good simply because of where he was picked? Draft position means nothing after draft day, absolutely nothing. For all we know, Bryce Petty or someone like that might end up being the best QB from this draft. Do I think he will be? No. But at this point, we have absolutely no idea.
 
Again, neither has done anything in the NFL at this point. You cannot possibly state who is better. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, and is one of the best ever. Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick, and one of the best ever. Rodgers, fell to late in the first round, but IMO is the best in the game today. My point, is that their are busts constantly, and surprises constantly. Saying Winston is better than Mariota before either has played in their first real game, is projection and honestly just being a homer.
You come and post on a FSU message board, down playing the crap on of its all time players endured during his time here and you want to call his defenders/fans homers? Really? Guess what? There are a lot of homers here. Want to know something else? I'd bet if Jameis struggles any tonight there will be similar post on the Oregon message board.
 
You come and post on a FSU message board, down playing the crap on of its all time players endured during his time here and you want to call his defenders/fans homers? Really? Guess what? There are a lot of homers here. Want to know something else? I'd bet if Jameis struggles any tonight there will be similar post on the Oregon message board.

I havent down played Winston one bit. I commented on this post because it is about Mariota, and I am a Titans fan. I am not trying to create a false Winston-Mariota rivalry, and neither have anything to do with each other. Both could end up having HOF careers and be SB champions. Both could be complete busts that arent in the league 5 years from now. Both could end up being Jay Cutler types that are basically average starters. At this point, we have absolutely no idea.

But yeah, saying one is better than the other when neither has played a single real NFL game is nonsense. And no, I stated earlier that preseason is meaningless. If Winston struggles, I will say the exact same things I say about Mariota, which is, he is a rookie, he is going to make mistakes. Honestly, I dont expect either to be great this season. Neither are on good teams. As Titans fan, I hope Mariota improves throughout the year and shows he can be a quality NFL player. If I were a Bucs fan, I would hope for the same things from Winston.
 
Rodgers came from a Jed Tedford system that produced Dilfer, Boller, Akili Smith, David Carr, and Joey Harrington. He came from a system that over inflated stats and that every other 1st rounder from the same system ended up being a bust.

But it's a night and day difference as to what a QB is exposed in Chip's offense. Rodgers and other QBs had to learn a thick notebook of plays for each week so his offense wasn't caught off guard. Marriota had 4-6 plays to learn and they rely solely on athletic ability on a RB/WR and tempo and a lot of disguise is what makes their QB effective. I disagree about the 1 read for Jedford's offense, he'd keep an extra guy on the line to give his QB more time to make his throws but there usually was a couple of options and it was still pro style.

Marriota has to learn a playbook for the first time in his life, learn new terminology ( don't see titans holding up pictures of Daffy Duck and company to call a play), take snaps from the huddle, run play action and stay in the pocket. In addition to making tight throw through small windows. Good Luck with that working!!
 
But it's a night and day difference as to what a QB is exposed in Chip's offense. Rodgers and other QBs had to learn a thick notebook of plays for each week so his offense wasn't caught off guard. Marriota had 4-6 plays to learn and they rely solely on athletic ability on a RB/WR and tempo and a lot of disguise is what makes their QB effective. I disagree about the 1 read for Jedford's offense, he'd keep an extra guy on the line to give his QB more time to make his throws but there usually was a couple of options and it was still pro style.

Marriota has to learn a playbook for the first time in his life, learn new terminology ( don't see titans holding up pictures of Daffy Duck and company to call a play), take snaps from the huddle, run play action and stay in the pocket. In addition to making tight throw through small windows. Good Luck with that working!!

Mariota has had no problems learning the playbook by all accounts. And every NFL rookie has to learn a more complex playbook, that isn't just an issue with Mariota. The NFL is miles ahead of the college game with regards to complexities of offenses and reading defenses. That is true no matter what system a player comes from. Mariota has also had no issues taking snaps from under center, etc etc. Is there a learning curve for him? Yes, as there is with every rookie. Has he struggled with the things you are mentioning thus far? By all accounts, no.
 
Mariota has had no problems learning the playbook by all accounts. And every NFL rookie has to learn a more complex playbook, that isn't just an issue with Mariota. The NFL is miles ahead of the college game with regards to complexities of offenses and reading defenses. That is true no matter what system a player comes from. Mariota has also had no issues taking snaps from under center, etc etc. Is there a learning curve for him? Yes, as there is with every rookie. Has he struggled with the things you are mentioning thus far? By all accounts, no.

Wrong, he only looked okay last night out of shotgun so no he can't take snaps under center and stay in the pocket and throw. Not a surprise one of his best throws was scrambling to his right. Knowing the playbook and implementing it on the field are two different things. Btw, there isn't just 1 playbook; its learning what you're going to run that week and any new plays that you're going to run against a team that week. That's coming from a former Titans assistant coach that I know and I have trouble believing that as a season goes on that Marcus is going to be able to do this since all he's done is just run the same 4-6 plays every week. He'll be out of the league in 4 years at least if he stays at a QB.
 
Mariota has had no problems learning the playbook by all accounts. And every NFL rookie has to learn a more complex playbook, that isn't just an issue with Mariota. The NFL is miles ahead of the college game with regards to complexities of offenses and reading defenses. That is true no matter what system a player comes from. Mariota has also had no issues taking snaps from under center, etc etc. Is there a learning curve for him? Yes, as there is with every rookie. Has he struggled with the things you are mentioning thus far? By all accounts, no.

Btw a little bit of knowledge about FSU playbook; its the reason we had 3 straight QB get drafted in the first round because it is NFL level. We had NFL coaches say this.
 
Btw a little bit of knowledge about FSU playbook; its the reason we had 3 straight QB get drafted in the first round because it is NFL level. We had NFL coaches say this.

No it isn't, no college system is as complex as an NFL system. You don't have the time with players to make it such. And the other 2 Qbs have been complete busts thus far, so not sure why you would bring that up. And no, I am not saying Winston is going to be a bust before anyone starts jumping on me, but you can't say Jimbo's system has had any impact on his QBs in the NFL. Not a strong point on your part.
 
No it isn't, no college system is as complex as an NFL system. You don't have the time with players to make it such. And the other 2 Qbs have been complete busts thus far, so not sure why you would bring that up. And no, I am not saying Winston is going to be a bust before anyone starts jumping on me, but you can't say Jimbo's system has had any impact on his QBs in the NFL. Not a strong point on your part.
You might want to take a look at this article and get back with us.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...os-fsu-offense-complex-pro-20150511-post.html

Then again, I'm sure you'll dismiss it due to the quotes coming from the Tampa coaches.
 
You might want to take a look at this article and get back with us.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...os-fsu-offense-complex-pro-20150511-post.html

Then again, I'm sure you'll dismiss it due to the quotes coming from the Tampa coaches.

That's all good and well, but you still have to learn to read more complex defenses and what not. And again, Ponder and Emanuel have nothing thus far in the NFL, so no matter the system Jimbo is running in college, you can't assume his QBs are any more prepared for the NFL than guys from other systems. Again, I think Winston is a better player than both of those guys, so I am by no means saying he will be a bust, but why is it a credible argument to think Jimbo's system is somehow superior and helps his guys in the NFL when none of his QBs have done anything in the NFL? Even before he was at FSU, he was the OC for Jamarcus Russell, Matt Flynn, etc etc. Yes, guys get drafted out of his system, but none have been successful.
 
I knew you'd dismiss the opinion of NFL coaches in favor of your own. Quite predictable.

I didnt dismiss anything, though I would speculate their is probably some level of exaggeration. But why not address my points? If Jimbo's system is so superior to other systems with regards to getting QBs NFL ready, then why have absolutely none of his players from either LSU or FSU developed into good pros? This logic makes no sense. Again, Winston is a better player than all of those guys, so I am by no means saying he is going to be a bust, but this whole idea that Fisher's system is an NFL system that produces NFL ready QBs is debunked quite easily when you just look at the lack of success his past QBs have had in the NFL. There is not one current starting QB (other than Winston) in the NFL that played under Fisher, unless Manuel ends up winning the Buffalo job, which I dont think he will. Also keep in mind, I am not bashing Fisher. He obviously runs a really good system and has a lot of success. I am arguing against this notion that one's college system has some great meaning with regards to their pro success.
 
That's all good and well, but you still have to learn to read more complex defenses and what not. And again, Ponder and Emanuel have nothing thus far in the NFL, so no matter the system Jimbo is running in college, you can't assume his QBs are any more prepared for the NFL than guys from other systems. Again, I think Winston is a better player than both of those guys, so I am by no means saying he will be a bust, but why is it a credible argument to think Jimbo's system is somehow superior and helps his guys in the NFL when none of his QBs have done anything in the NFL? Even before he was at FSU, he was the OC for Jamarcus Russell, Matt Flynn, etc etc. Yes, guys get drafted out of his system, but none have been successful.

Because they keep getting drafted high and they stay in the league Jamarcus had drug problems that side track him. Name a current OC that does it?

Btw, it's Manuel not Emanuel.
 
Because they keep getting drafted high and they stay in the league Jamarcus had drug problems that side track him. Name a current OC that does it?

Btw, it's Manuel not Emanuel.

Your logic still makes no sense. Ponder and Manuel were not ready to be NFL starters, they simply weren't. Granted, both are still young so could potentially develop, but you cannot make the argument they were pro ready QBs simply because they came out of Jimbo Fisher's offense. Honestly, if you are going to make this argument you have to be able to cite at least one example of a successful NFL QB that came out of Fisher's system (and really you need to find more than one example, since a lot of college coaches can cite one).
 
Your logic still makes no sense. Ponder and Manuel were not ready to be NFL starters, they simply weren't. Granted, both are still young so could potentially develop, but you cannot make the argument they were pro ready QBs simply because they came out of Jimbo Fisher's offense. Honestly, if you are going to make this argument you have to be able to cite at least one example of a successful NFL QB that came out of Fisher's system (and really you need to find more than one example, since a lot of college coaches can cite one).

Shows how little you know about football. It's not the COLLEGE coach job to develop you in the pros, that's on the player. It's the college coach job to get you drafted and the higher you go the better the coach did his job.
 
Shows how little you know about football. It's not the COLLEGE coach job to develop you in the pros, that's on the player. It's the college coach job to get you drafted and the higher you go the better the coach did his job.

I wasn't the one trying to cite a college system as an indicator as pro success, you were. I totally agree that a college system is way over rated when trying to project a players success at the next level. Precisely why I am not making that argument.

I would argue that it is not a college coaches job to get you drafted. A college coaches job is to win games at the college level. Obviously it is easier to do that with good players that will eventually be drafted, but that isn't their job to get guys drafted. I mean Miami is currently 2nd with the most NFL players. Would anyone argue they are the 2nd best coached college team because of that? I dont think so.
 
I wasn't the one trying to cite a college system as an indicator as pro success, you were. I totally agree that a college system is way over rated when trying to project a players success at the next level. Precisely why I am not making that argument.

I would argue that it is not a college coaches job to get you drafted. A college coaches job is to win games at the college level. Obviously it is easier to do that with good players that will eventually be drafted, but that isn't their job to get guys drafted. I mean Miami is currently 2nd with the most NFL players. Would anyone argue they are the 2nd best coached college team because of that? I dont think so.

Aye, yae-yae where to start. I said FSU playbook prepares you for what you see and have to learn in the NFL. You said a college Coach determines if a guy makes it; that's not how it works. He's not reviewing his NFL film, playbook, or meetings with Jimbo. Jimbo developed his mind to get him draft high since he's his position coach. As far as Miami, yes the position coaches are responsible for those guys developing but Golden isn't responsible for it next week.
 
Aye, yae-yae where to start. I said FSU playbook prepares you for what you see and have to learn in the NFL. You said a college Coach determines if a guy makes it; that's not how it works. He's not reviewing his NFL film, playbook, or meetings with Jimbo. Jimbo developed his mind to get him draft high since he's his position coach. As far as Miami, yes the position coaches are responsible for those guys developing but Golden isn't responsible for it next week.

I did not say a college coach determines if you make it in the least, you completely misinterpreted my argument.
 
I am fine you arent sold on him, I dont care. I am a Titans fan, and could careless about Winston. And I am not comparing him to Rodgers, I didnt write the scouting reports, scouts did. But Rodgers was passed over for Alex Smith, with a lot of the same shotgun issues and what not that Mariota is questioned with. I am good with that. It might take a few years yes, but kid is going to be a baller, I promise ya. Jameis might be too, again, they arent rivals and I am not a Bucs fan, so I really dont care, but the hate for Mariota on this board is weird.

ANd keep in mind, they are both in the NFL. The only time they played, Mariota was clearly the better player. That means nothing now, and will never mean anything again. If you are a Bucs fan, cheer for Jameis, if you arent, then cheer for your pro team.

We all know you're a titans fan lol. That's cool bro. Hey I already agreed the hatred for him here is odd.

Your last point though is comical. Fsu had 525 yards of offense. OSU had 535. The only way oregon could stop jameis was turnovers...I believe there were five. You realize all of the scouts and 90% of nfl pundits said Jameis graded out far better than Marcus. Jameis made unreal throws in that game. To the people that counted, this being an NFL discussion, Jameis was CLEARLY the better qb.
 
We all know you're a titans fan lol. That's cool bro. Hey I already agreed the hatred for him here is odd.

Your last point though is comical. Fsu had 525 yards of offense. OSU had 535. The only way oregon could stop jameis was turnovers...I believe there were five. You realize all of the scouts and 90% of nfl pundits said Jameis graded out far better than Marcus. Jameis made unreal throws in that game. To the people that counted, this being an NFL discussion, Jameis was CLEARLY the better qb.

I wasnt talking about OSU, and I was talking about one specific game. Mariota outplayed Winston in the Oregon vs FSU game. There is no possible way you could have watched that game and thought other wise. Yes, it was one game, no one is saying a single game is the end of discussion. But this idea that Jameis is clearly the better player is something that we will have to wait and see. Based on one preseason game, I thought Mariota looked better. Granted, preseason is meaningless, and Jameis did make some nice plays. He also looked very inaccurate at times and didnt seem to read the defense well at times. Both things that can certainly come along, but this idea that WInston is so far ahead of Mariota at this point just isn't reality. They are both young kids with a lot of potential, who are going to have some growing pains.

But let's also be realistic. Both guys have concerns. I understand (to a degree) the desire to think Winston is a sure thing and what not. But while there are concerns with Mariota about the adjustment to read defenses and what not in a pro style system, he is honestly much better mechanically than Winston. Winston has always had sloppy footwork and a slow delivery. The footwork is certainly something he can fix, but he does need a quicker delivery, which can be problematic. And dont get me wrong, he isnt Tebow or Leftwich or someone like that with his delivery, but it he can't speed it up to a degree, it is going to cause problems. Mariota probably needs better footwork as well, but his throwing motion is quicker and much more fluid than Winston's.
 
Last edited:
I wasnt talking about OSU, and I was talking about one specific game. Mariota outplayed Winston in the Oregon vs FSU game. There is no possible way you could have watched that game and thought other wise. Yes, it was one game, no one is saying a single game is the end of discussion. But this idea that Jameis is clearly the better player is something that we will have to wait and see. Based on one preseason game, I thought Mariota looked better. Granted, preseason is meaningless, and Jameis did make some nice plays. He also looked very inaccurate at times and didnt seem to read the defense well at times. Both things that can certainly come along, but this idea that WInston is so far ahead of Mariota at this point just isn't reality. They are both young kids with a lot of potential, who are going to have some growing pains.

But let's also be realistic. Both guys have concerns. I understand (to a degree) the desire to think Winston is a sure thing and what not. But while there are concerns with Mariota about the adjustment to read defenses and what not in a pro style system, he is honestly much better mechanically than Winston. Winston has always had sloppy footwork and a slow delivery. The footwork is certainly something he can fix, but he does need a quicker delivery, which can be problematic. And dont get me wrong, he isnt Tebow or Leftwich or someone like that with his delivery, but it he can't speed it up to a degree, it is going to cause problems. Mariota probably needs better footwork as well, but his throwing motion is quicker and much more fluid than Winston's.

Uh that's the same game I was talking about. Oregon outplayed FSU by creating turnovers. Marcus graded very poorly in that game to NFL scouts. Winston received VERY high grades in THAT game from NFL scouts. FSU had 520 yards of offense. Winston did whatever he wanted. Other than one turnover he had a VERY good game. Marcus ran the ball and dumped the ball off. He was not great, maybe because he didn't need to be, but he wasn't. Meanwhile Jameis was making complex and difficult throws. NFL scouts were salivating over Jameis after THAT game. Oregon fans are the only ones that thought Marcus outplayed Jameis in THAT game.

I'm not saying Marcus isn't good or won't be good. But the consensus so far is that Jameis IS the better qb and it's not close. What outlet can you source that says Marcus was a better or even equal NFL prospect?!!!! Dude, I get it. You like Marcus. But Jameis has proven to be better up to this point...and yes, even in THAT game.
 
Last edited:
Uh that's the same game I was talking about. Oregon outplayed FSU by creating turnovers. Marcus graded very poorly in that game to NFL scouts. Winston received VERY high grades in THAT game from NFL scouts. FSU had 520 yards of offense. Winston did whatever he wanted. Other than one turnover he had a VERY good game. Marcus ran the ball and dumped the ball off. He was not great, maybe because he didn't need to be, but he wasn't. Meanwhile Jameis was making complex and difficult throws. NFL scouts were salivating over Jameis after THAT game. Oregon fans are the only ones that thought Marcus outplayed Jameis in THAT game.

I'm not saying Marcus isn't good or won't be good. But the consensus so far is that Jameis IS the better qb and it's not close. What outlet can you source that says Marcus was a better or even equal NFL prospect?!!!! Dude, I get it. You like Marcus. But Jameis has proven to be better up to this point...and yes, even in THAT game.

They both had stellar college careers, and neither has played a single down thus far in a real NFL game. THere is no basis to say one is clearly better than the other. THere is this notion that the college system a QB plays in matters. It doesnt. Yes, Mariota will have more of an initial adjustment than Jameis because of the system, but the initial adjustment is meaningless. They were both drafted to bad teams, neither is winning a SB, or even likely making the playoffs their first year. Two, 3, 4 years down the road, it is absolutely impossible to say who will be the better QB.

As of right now, there are 2 established starting QBs in the NFL that played for Urban Meyer, and none that have played for Jimbo Fisher. Alex Smith took a bit to get going, and certainly isnt great, but he is a quality QB right now. And Cam Newton didnt finish with Meyer, but he finished with Malzahn, who certainly doesnt run a pro style system. And no one would argue that Meyer or Malzahn, runs a more pro style system than Jimbo, yet, as of right now that system has more starting QBs in the league than Jimbo's system does. My point being, if a guy can play a guy can play. THe system you they play in college, has no indication of their pro success. Both Winston and Mariota can make any throw on the field, both are athletic enough to play the position, and I think both are intelligent enough to play the position. I think they will both have good solid careers to be honest, but to say one is clearly better than the other at this point is straight projection without evidence.

And who cares if Mariota graded poorly in that game, he wasnt running a pro system. He was supposedly highly impressive in workouts, and has been highly impressive in camp. Peter King said he was 3 years better than the schedule he had for him. With Mariota, there are no physical question marks, it is can he adapt to a different system. So far, which yes, at this point so far means little, he has adjusted just fine.
 
They both had stellar college careers, and neither has played a single down thus far in a real NFL game. THere is no basis to say one is clearly better than the other. THere is this notion that the college system a QB plays in matters. It doesnt. Yes, Mariota will have more of an initial adjustment than Jameis because of the system, but the initial adjustment is meaningless. They were both drafted to bad teams, neither is winning a SB, or even likely making the playoffs their first year. Two, 3, 4 years down the road, it is absolutely impossible to say who will be the better QB.

As of right now, there are 2 established starting QBs in the NFL that played for Urban Meyer, and none that have played for Jimbo Fisher. Alex Smith took a bit to get going, and certainly isnt great, but he is a quality QB right now. And Cam Newton didnt finish with Meyer, but he finished with Malzahn, who certainly doesnt run a pro style system. And no one would argue that Meyer or Malzahn, runs a more pro style system than Jimbo, yet, as of right now that system has more starting QBs in the league than Jimbo's system does. My point being, if a guy can play a guy can play. THe system you they play in college, has no indication of their pro success. Both Winston and Mariota can make any throw on the field, both are athletic enough to play the position, and I think both are intelligent enough to play the position. I think they will both have good solid careers to be honest, but to say one is clearly better than the other at this point is straight projection without evidence.

And who cares if Mariota graded poorly in that game, he wasnt running a pro system. He was supposedly highly impressive in workouts, and has been highly impressive in camp. Peter King said he was 3 years better than the schedule he had for him. With Mariota, there are no physical question marks, it is can he adapt to a different system. So far, which yes, at this point so far means little, he has adjusted just fine.

So you're saying there are more spread/option qbs in the NFL? Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Dude. Get a grip man
 
So you're saying there are more spread/option qbs in the NFL? Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Dude. Get a grip man

Huh? I didn't say that at all. I am saying the college system a QB plays in is vastly over rated when predicting pro success.
 
Ok youre right and every NFL scout, coach, GM, player, ex player, pundit and owners are wrong. With the measurables that everyone has been given on both players, Winston is the consensus better qb. That could change. But that's the consensus dude.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT