If you've already decided where he is on the spectrum, why did you ask him?
The Unvacionated
- Thread starter surfnole
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If you've already decided where he is on the spectrum, why did you ask him?
Because there seems to regularly be a difference between where people consider themselves and where other people consider them to be.
You did find Brian's claim of being a centrist laughable.
You think they form new communities and societies based on beliefs? Or is there economic/power/armed conflict reasons?
People moved out of the "rust belt" or out of farming because of beliefs????? No, economics and changing technology.
Prussia was built and disappeared because of beliefs or war?
Closest you can come is the American Civil War.............but that was more economic necessity than belief in slavery (slavery was dying out before the Civil War).
Not to be an economic essentialist here, but that is the #1 reason people move around the US. The #2 reason is retirement/more appealing climate.
Frankly, although this is an interesting discussion, it is kind of silly.
Now there have been intentional communities formed for several hundred years. Many of these were religious communities, but not all. Here is a pretty big one that lasted almost 40 years: https://socialwelfare.library.vcu.edu/religious/the-oneida-community-1848-1880-a-utopian-community/
The Amish communities are pretty long lasting, around 300 years, and have around 25,000 people in the Lancaster PA community.
The Roycrofters in NY were based on artistic expression and design and were successful in creating an entire movement in furniture design, et al.
Monasteries are another example.
But, most either fall apart quickly or lose their hold on what beliefs are accepted to live in an area (The Mormons). And some become more cult-like.
So maybe, what you are reaching for is more like an intentional community based on some specific shared beliefs rather than an intentional country. So, first you have to solidify what beliefs your community is going to coalesce behind and then you have to purchase land/housing for your group. Much work to do!
Ok, I'll play:
1) You're calling the shots, describe to me how you would handle the war in the Ukraine? (and in doing so, explain to me why it matters to US interests that Russia wants to keep "friendly" governments on its border in Belarus and Ukr.), given the fact that almost all of Europe is in NATO).
2) Describe to me how the nation should break apart? 4 nations, 3 nations? north, south east west? Based on geography, culture, etc.??
OK, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say this. I understand what you're saying, but WHY are you saying it? Both his perception of himself, and yours, are mere opinions. WHY is there a need to point that out? Why didn't you preference your question by saying where you think on the spectrum he lies?
These are the kinds of posts that eventually lead to ruining good threads to the point of getting them locked.
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Why is that relevant? People naturally see themselves differently than others view them. If a persons views are a direction right or left of your own they are viewed to lean that direction. Rarely do you see people with views completely fit in one side or the other or those that tow the party line no matter what. These are the extremists. IMO of course.
The initial laughter comment was due to the I think part in the context of the question. However, on a broader scale a like would have been fine. Thanks for monitoring that for us. Your doing great.
But what is better support or prevention? The US had every opportunity to try to avoid the invasion and or negotiate an agreement with the Russians. Obviously the threat of kinetic engagement was no longer on the table when Putin decided to invade so why use Ukraine as a pawn?
Because the discussion started when Brian said he considered himself to be a centrist. People's views have become more extreme as the outer poles have shifted farther from the middle. Many who consider themselves to be moderates would have been labeled far right/left not that long ago.
I guess that's true. The conversation had started before that with the Covid discussion. I don't know if the poles have shifted or that peoples views are more in line with the tribal boundaries. The subjects that define where we stand have changed as well. Not too long ago the biggest item was abortion and the death penalty now its transgenderism, inclusion and your views on Covid. Its a different world now.
Essentially that's what we have now only that there is a job aspect to it. Most live where they are comfortable unless forced into it due to economic considerations.
There was no attempt at prevention there was provocation. I don't think many outside of the extreme fiscal hawks or those who think the President is involved (extremists) are against the support. But there are those (myself included) that think we shouldn't have gotten ourselves into this position as it was avoidable. However, I don't disapprove of the support, in fact I think we should support them further by ending this and taking down Putin once and for all.
Hence live where they are comfortable which is what they do. If there are those who are not comfortable with federal policies they are free to leave regardless of which side of the fence they sit on. It cant just be one way or the other and people have to accept things the way they are and vote accordingly. Its the whole reason for a two party system and checks and balances. Neither side is going to have the utopia they want nor should they.
Please tell me which state is restricting movement of its citizens. Last I checked you can go state to state with no papers.
They're called "communes"... they were big in the 1960s... I'm sure there's still a few in California. Join one, no doubt you'll feel more comfortable.
What beliefs and values do you have that are not represented?
Idaho didn't restrict movement. They made it illegal to assist a minor in obtaining a abortion out of state.
You don't have to accept it, if I or you dot like the policies or the system we live under we are free to leave and live somewhere else. My point here is things aren't as bad as you see them. You want a socialist utopia where you live under liberal laws and views and all others are silenced. That's not what living in a free society is about. Its definitely not very inclusive. Things don't always go one way.
Sounds like Russia or Bolivia. So it wouldn't be ok if a republican ran for local office?
Idaho becomes one of the most extreme anti-abortion states with law restricting travel for abortions
A bill that prohibits people in Idaho from helping pregnant minors leave the state to obtain abortions became law on Wednesday.
www.nbcnews.com
No they didn't. Like I said it deals specifically with minors.
"Lighten up, Francis".... Not taunting or mocking. Just thought it was funny on numerous levels.
My question was genuine and well intended, just like the one I asked you in this same thread about the Ukraine and the division of the nation. Trying to understand what particular values you have that are not represented.
For the first time in the many years we've been on this board, I actually agree with you on 1 thing: the nation should separate.
There are A LOT of folks migrating away from your state in record numbers and moving towards RED states.
They've actually dubbed it the "California Exodus".
List of U.S. states and territories by net migration - Wikipedia
Hell, didn't your Governor nearly get recalled? I can not think of another state which has fallen so greatly from desired to non-desirable.
GO NOLES!!!
Maybe if we get all the gas stoves banned it would be better?
I thought all the commune folks moved to Idaho anyway.
The fact there was a recall to begin with means things are not as bright and cheery as you think. I'm not sure a badge of honor is winning the recall election by 20% is as meaningful as you are characterizing it to be.
Not understanding your point about overpriced home value in Cali though, I'm very knowledgeable that you pay a lot more and get a lot less out there.
GO NOLES!!!
Was not taunting or mocking; same intention as when @GeddyLee09 writes a sincere, well-thought out post the length of a solid paragraph and you summarily respond "cool".
You said:
A commune would accurately fit this description. This would insulate yourself from the diverse beliefs that you perceive as a danger to your life. Again: not mocking, just pointing out what your advocating for has been done before, in various forms.
As long as your mortgage is reasonable you should have a good nest egg sitting there.
I have a house in central Texas and we've had many non conservatives move there from California. Many of them dont stay long but very few are actual conservatives. I've seen the same in Florida although not in as great numbers. From what I see its not just conservatives leaving California.
It will be interesting to see how this works in the future as more businesses and companies then people leave the state. How will al that migration affect home prices. How long before all those homes get gobbled up for the homeless and illegals?
I mean, weather and scenery wise.. California is beautiful..
Taxes, home prices, cost of living, homelessness, LA/SF/Oakland crime issues seem to be a major non starter for me ever moving there
San Diego does seem beautiful though. Wouldn’t mind visiting there.
So the data is wrong? This says California lost 874k people over a 2 year period.
List of U.S. states and territories by net migration - Wikipedia
I've been to California twice (San Diego / LaJolla in the 80's and LA/Pasadena in 2013). Saw crime both times. I guess you are just lucky or insincere.
GO NOLES!!!
My parents went to San Diego for 5 days in April and said there were lots of homeless people.
I have friends who live out there and believe precisely the opposite. They feel like they get a whole lot less for their dollar than it is worth (for point of reference one lives in San Luis Obispo and the other Pittsburg) as I believe many others do... again, just unlucky unlike you.
GO NOLES!!!
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If California seceded from the U.S., what would you do with churches or hospitals in Cali that didn't want to perform abortions, transgender surgery or gay marriages?
Just curious.
Robbery and drugs in San Diego (drugs were at customs going into mexico). In 2013 we stayed at the Westin near LAX. Saw drug deals all along Century Blvd and heard gun shot all weekend long.. which I assume was criminal activity.
GO NOLES!!!
I go there for work quite a bit unfortunately. There are lots of homeless people in LA and San Diego. Even the hotel staff tell us to be careful walking around town due to crime mainly from the homeless people. I actually fly in and out from Dallas and do an overnight there to avoid 2 nites in Cali. Don't get me wrong there are homeless people everywhere but it seems more prevalent in LA, San Diego and even Seattle.
As the population decreases along with the housing shortage the demand for housing will go down along with the high prices. Losing 875K a year and meeting the 120k goal of new builds would close the gap in 3 years. If all the homeless were housed in existing or new units. The problem is the people filling these vacant units aren't going to be able to pay 1.8 million. What happens to the economy and housing market then? With no new influx of people and good jobs common sense would say it would suffer.
Crime Rate by State 2024
California, Alabama and Montana have almost the same crime rate per 100k people at 4700. Florida is around 3900.
