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There are no long term adverse effects of mRNA vaccines

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Should probably have both included but if we keep getting new variants and it not being clear how long everyone gets “immunity” from the disease or the vaccine not sure herd immunity will ever apply anyhow.
ultimately it will probably end up like expecting herd immunity to the common cold, that probably won't happen in any significant meaningful way but if level of severe illness regresses to common cold levels that might be the best we can hope for.

there was a study in nature about cross reactive immunity from coronavirus based common colds. interesting read.

 
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ultimately it will probably end up like expecting herd immunity to the common cold, that probably won't happen in any significant meaningful way but if level of severe illness regresses to common cold levels that might be the best we can hope for.

there was a study in nature about cross reactive immunity from coronavirus based common colds. interesting read.

The talk from many has been that this would be the way out of the pandemic. It would need to get to a lower severity level and become seasonal. Hopefully Omnicron is the beginning of that.
 
I hope that one thing that comes out of this pandemic is a meeting of key players to evaluate terminology and communications around all communicable diseases, pandemics, vaccines, therapeutics, etc

Words are important… if herd immunity isn’t really just about absolute immunity as people rightly interpret the word “immunity” to mean in most other uses of that word, but also about minimizing severity of impacts, strengthening community resistance to make the virus wildfire and mutation process more difficult (ie creating a stronger protective wall that isn’t necessarily impassable but at least puts up a better fight), etc, then maybe it’s time for “herd immunity” to change to “effective herd resistance” or something else that isn’t so unachievably definitive as “immunity”.
 
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I hope that one thing that comes out of this pandemic is a meeting of key players to evaluate terminology and communications around all communicable diseases, pandemics, vaccines, therapeutics, etc

Words are important… if herd immunity isn’t really just about absolute immunity as people rightly interpret immunity to mean, but also about minimizing severity of impacts, strengthening community resistance to make the virus wildfire and mutation process more difficult (ie creating a stronger protective wall that isn’t necessarily impassable but at least puts up a better fight), etc, then maybe it’s time for “herd immunity” to change to “effective herd resistance” or something else that isn’t so unachievably definitive as “immunity”.
i think that is always going to be extremely difficult edging on probably unachievable where highly mutating viruses are concerned but before the pandemic we were already beginning to see measles outbreaks, largely attributable to parents who were avoiding the childhood immunization schedule, so there are data points there that can be used for reference.
 
I hope that one thing that comes out of this pandemic is a meeting of key players to evaluate terminology and communications around all communicable diseases, pandemics, vaccines, therapeutics, etc

Words are important… if herd immunity isn’t really just about absolute immunity as people rightly interpret immunity to mean, but also about minimizing severity of impacts, strengthening community resistance to make the virus wildfire and mutation process more difficult (ie creating a stronger protective wall that isn’t necessarily impassable but at least puts up a better fight), etc, then maybe it’s time for “herd immunity” to change to “effective herd resistance” or something else that isn’t so unachievably definitive as “immunity”.
Lots of things need to be evaluated after all this is over. We might not fix much but maybe enough to help out the next time.
 
We are currently in the long term. Nothing has "come to light." In my mind this is no longer a valid excuse. The lipids (fat), sugar, salt and mRNA (those are the vaccine ingredients for anyone wondering) that make up the vaccine are all naturally occuring. mRNA, the only naturally occuring element that is made in a lab is conveniently disposed of by the body within weeks of it being introduced.

We are way past the time frame of this doing any damage. Tired of waiting on people to admit they are wrong. It's time to put your big boy pants on and get vaxxed.

Happy holidays!
Only someone who desperately wants to believe in mRNA vaccine technology would make this assertion.
 
We are currently in the long term. Nothing has "come to light." In my mind this is no longer a valid excuse. The lipids (fat), sugar, salt and mRNA (those are the vaccine ingredients for anyone wondering) that make up the vaccine are all naturally occuring. mRNA, the only naturally occuring element that is made in a lab is conveniently disposed of by the body within weeks of it being introduced.

We are way past the time frame of this doing any damage. Tired of waiting on people to admit they are wrong. It's time to put your big boy pants on and get vaxxed.

Happy holidays!
You know a virus is made up of the same things and we know what kind of damage they can do long term.
 
Only someone who desperately wants to believe in mRNA vaccine technology would make this assertion.
Sure, but don't you think there a difference in the mRNA in our bodies and the mRNA developed in a lab?
No, its true. You just refuse to believe it. Just because its developed in a lab doesn't make it inherently bad. They play the same role and have the same purpose. It did its job the way it was designed to, was disposed of by the body within 2 weeks, and has no long term effects, you know, since it was disposed of.
 
No, its true. You just refuse to believe it. Just because its developed in a lab doesn't make it inherently bad. They play the same role and have the same purpose. It did its job the way it was designed to, was disposed of by the body within 2 weeks, and has no long term effects, you know, since it was disposed of.
Sometimes things developed in a lab can work better than the real thing.
 
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On the contrary the mRNA in these vaccines give specific instructions.
Trust it all you want. This thing is playing out exactly like it was going to regardless of vaccine.
I know you are getting giddy about the omicron specific vaccine. Be careful, your employer my think you are addicted to heroin, with all those tracks.
 
Trust it all you want. This thing is playing out exactly like it was going to regardless of vaccine.
I know you are getting giddy about the omicron specific vaccine. Be careful, your employer my think you are addicted to heroin, with all those tracks.
Now’s the part where you guess who Dhersh’s employer is.
(Hint: you might have chosen the wrong WC poster to try to school with your insights about vaccines.)
 
No, its true. You just refuse to believe it. Just because its developed in a lab doesn't make it inherently bad. They play the same role and have the same purpose. It did its job the way it was designed to, was disposed of by the body within 2 weeks, and has no long term effects, you know, since it was disposed of.
To believe there cannot be any long-term negative affects after the two-week deposition is faulty logic. Only time can tell which one of us is right.

As it stands there are already documented problems with the spike protein being radicalized.
 
Now’s the part where you guess who Dhersh’s employer is.
(Hint: you might have chosen the wrong WC poster to try to school with your insights about vaccines.)
I'm supposed to care what Joe Smo, that works for a pharmaceutical company thinks?
You don't think I've read these threads to know whats going on?
 
To believe there cannot be any long-term negative affects after the two-week deposition is faulty logic. Only time can tell which one of us is right.

As it stands there are already documented problems with the spike protein being radicalized.
Time can tell. Its been more than two years since the first shots. Any negative effects of the vaccine would have revealed themselves long ago. Its the beauty of mRNA vaccines.
 
Time can tell. Its been more than two years since the first shots. Any negative effects of the vaccine would have revealed themselves long ago. Its the beauty of mRNA vaccines.
But negative effects are being revealed now in trials from before the vaccine was put out to the public. 1/1000 had negative effects in one of the trials in TX and were swept under the rug. The system is flawed and can't be trusted when private businesses that provide the trials for big pharma are incentivized to give a certain answer so that they are used in the next trial. These trials cost at minimum 20mil and can be in excess of 100mil.
 
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Peace.
 
The idea that the only contrary study is the cdcs is preposterous.
That is what the study said. Of course the study write up was several months ago, so a lot can change most importantly time from vaccination. Noticed Fauci finally admitted that eventually everyone will come in contact with Covid, something that epidemiologist discussed early on. Also, study came out yesterday that demonstrated 90% decrease in hospitalization from Omicron compared to previous variants.
 
i think that is always going to be extremely difficult edging on probably unachievable where highly mutating viruses are concerned but before the pandemic we were already beginning to see measles outbreaks, largely attributable to parents who were avoiding the childhood immunization schedule, so there are data points there that can be used for reference.
And there were no hospitalizations nor deaths. Research into measles symptoms found that Vitamin A deficiency was the cause of the more serious cases. These outbreaks were extremely limited because of the high level of vaccination. A 2002 study on an outbreak in the west coast with pertussis found that there was no difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated children age 5-18 (the age when full vaccination is achieved). It was theorized a new variant was causing the infections that the vaccination wasn't covering.
 
That is what the study said. Of course the study write up was several months ago, so a lot can change most importantly time from vaccination. Noticed Fauci finally admitted that eventually everyone will come in contact with Covid, something that epidemiologist discussed early on. Also, study came out yesterday that demonstrated 90% decrease in hospitalization from Omicron compared to previous variants.
I do not have a problem with the individual studies. My point is that there are other studies reporting a more robust immune response from the vaccine than natural immunities from sources other than the CDC.
 
I do not have a problem with the individual studies. My point is that there are other studies reporting a more robust immune response from the vaccine than natural immunities from sources other than the CDC.
Of course...............science is rarely settled and fixed. My only comment is that for pretty much every other virus we see robust immune response from natural immunities that are stronger longer than the vaccine. Corona viruses might be an exception...............but the science isn't there yet to make that determination. And we see that neither gives long lasting protection against Omicron, so probably a mute point.
 
Of course...............science is rarely settled and fixed. My only comment is that for pretty much every other virus we see robust immune response from natural immunities that are stronger longer than the vaccine. Corona viruses might be an exception...............but the science isn't there yet to make that determination. And we see that neither gives long lasting protection against Omicron, so probably a mute point.
It might well be a moot point and I personally have both. I contracted Covid, probably the UK variant, before I became eligible for the vaccine. So I would imagine that personally I have the most protection. The current MRNA vaccines are different than previous vaccines but time will tell how much protection they offer.
 
It might well be a moot point and I personally have both. I contracted Covid, probably the UK variant, before I became eligible for the vaccine. So I would imagine that personally I have the most protection. The current MRNA vaccines are different than previous vaccines but time will tell how much protection they offer.
Omicron seems to evade the vaccine at a pretty decent rate. However, the vaccine/booster does reduce hospitalization. Talked to a friend that teaches at Dartmouth yesterday. His class of 65 had 35 with current positive Covid tests (they test everyone). All were vaccinated, most were boosted.
 
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to be fair, when they test to measure immunity levels it is specifically for antibody levels against the spike protein since that is solely what the approved covid vaccines provide protection against. there are 29 total proteins in the covid virus. people that have been infected with covid may develop an antibody response to all 29.

some of the covid vaccines currently under research and development are now targeting other proteins of the virus in addition to the spike protein.

one useful aspect of the original approach is as observed in the serology data. we can clearly identify in blood donors those that have generated an immune response solely from the vaccines vs those who have developed antibodies via infection or infection + vaccine.
 
yep. not disputing that occurs just more to the point that the vast number of people in that scenario get tested for covid. there's about 1.5 million tests conducted annually for influenza in any given year in the US. we're well over 800 million covid tests administered in the US in the now approximately 2 years since the first reported cases here.
The testing fetish is ridiculous
 
Before listening to the scientific community, I would have no reason/basis to know myself whether Covid-19 natural immunity beats vaccine immunity or vice versa. Therefore, I tend to go with the prevailing most credible science and other meaningful contextual clues, all weighted for the risks of each avenue to immunity.

For example:
Whether it's specific studies and/or the well-informed opinions of highly educated/trained/experienced doctors and researchers, science seems to suggest that Vaccine immunity (at least via double dose of Pfizer or Moderna, even before being boosted) beats Natural immunity, especially after considering the risks/costs to acquire one vs the other:

-- Johns Hopkins -- "Natural immunity is the antibody protection your body creates against a germ once you’ve been infected with it. Natural immunity varies according to the person and the germ. For example, people who have had the measles are not likely to get it again, but this is not the case for every disease. A mild case of an illness may not result in strong natural immunity. New studies show that natural immunity to the coronavirus weakens (wanes) over time, and does so faster than immunity provided by COVID-19 vaccination."
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know

-- Nebraska Medicine -- "What about that Israeli study suggesting natural immunity is stronger? Infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH, FIDSA, carefully evaluates the study design of the retrospective Maccabi Health System study in his Aug. 31 briefing. In the briefing, he identifies two concerning sources of error that were not corrected for: survivorship bias and selection bias"

-- British Society for Immunology -- "It's likely that for most people vaccination against COVID-19 will induce more effective and longer lasting immunity than that induced by natural infection with the virus."

Example of a contextual clue --
the NCAA's most recent isolation policies -- per https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/arti...eases-updated-covid-19-guidance-winter-sports
"Those considered fully vaccinated include people:
Within two months of having completed the primary series of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine (one dose).
Within five months of having completed the primary series of the mRNA Pfizer vaccine, or within six months of having completed the primary series of the mRNA Moderna vaccine (two doses for both).
Who have received a booster vaccine if they are beyond two months of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine or beyond five or six months of the mRNA Pfizer or Moderna vaccine, respectively.
A person who has had a documented COVID-19 infection in the past 90 days is considered the equivalent of "fully vaccinated.
"

The contextual clue here is that Pfizer & Moderna "full vaccination" (2 doses) is considered by the NCAA, with plenty of medical input and the awareness that they are subjecting themselves and/or member schools to potential litigation risk if they get it wrong, to provide longer immunity (5 months assumed protection) than is mere Covid-19 infection without any vaccination (3 months assumed protection.)
Side note -- It's interesting to me that the J&J shot (long considered the redheaded stepchild of the 3 manufacturers when it comes to Covid vaccine efficacy), if unboosted, is apparently considered inferior to natural immunity (2 months vs. 3 months), or else they're erring on the side of caution with J&J if they are awaiting more data here.

One very important consideration should be obvious to all who aren't partial to RFID chip implantation/infertility type conspiracy thinking and fear-mongering... The Risks/Costs of Acquiring Immunity -- for the overwhelming majority of the population, acquiring immunity via vaccination certainly carries with it a much lower risk profile, to the person gaining that immunity and to the community he/she comes in contact with, than does acquiring immunity by getting infected (considering all Covid-19 strains to date, not just Omicron.)

Good night.
Immunity is not the same as defense against bad cases.

Nothing is providing meaningful immunity. There’s nothing I’ve seen to suggest TCell response doesn’t continue.

One thing I think we can agree on is a never ending 3-6 month booster regimen is really doable.
 
As long as you have confirmed that. Personally I would confirm my antibodies every 6 months since we still don't know how long they last.
But somehow we know the long term effects of the Covid mRna genetic vaccine therapy, which is still approved under emergency use authorization. Okay.
 
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But somehow we know the long term effects of the Covid mRna genetic vaccine therapy, which is still approved under emergency use authorization. Okay.
Just in case you somehow missed it, Pfizer 2-dose hasn’t just been EUA for many months now…
 
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But somehow we know the long term effects of the Covid mRna genetic vaccine therapy, which is still approved under emergency use authorization. Okay.
I said it before that it's all relative. If initial immunity from vaccines still lasted then we would be saying we don't know how long vaccine immunity lasts. You are not making a fair comparison.

And just because it hasn't met the standards of full approval doesn't indicate what we do and don't know.
 
I said it before that it's all relative. If initial immunity from vaccines still lasted then we would be saying we don't know how long vaccine immunity lasts. You are not making a fair comparison.

And just because it hasn't met the standards of full approval doesn't indicate what we do and don't know.
Hasn’t Pfizer’s 2-dose regimen of Comirnaty for 16 & older met the standards for full FDA approval as of 8/23/21?
 
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