Again, would make more sense IF it weren't for the car + raven's mask (both of which tie back to Capere's killer).
Could be VV, if that were true then he wouldn't make making more waves and drawing attention to the house and investigation.
True Detective starts tonight
- Thread starter F4Gary
- Start date
Again, would make more sense IF it weren't for the car + raven's mask (both of which tie back to Capere's killer).
Could be VV, if that were true then he wouldn't make making more waves and drawing attention to the house and investigation.
I wonder if it's a coincidence that VV's redheaded goon is of similar height to VV. I mean, it's not normal to have a 6'4" actor (or however tall VV is) and have a side kick lackey be of similar stature.
It sounds like Casper is the city manager for land development and got VV in early on the property before it went "public" for investors at $5 million, Catalyst head quoted VV for $7 mil but now has it at $10 mil?
I wonder if there's some massive body farm of dead hookers, prostitutes and missing people on the fast transit path where the railway is being formed and this Mask Cult wants to (sorry for this) derail it's development and buy up the property themselves. Seems VV is acting outside of this Vinci city to get this done and bringing outside people to invest in it, if he's not part of this inner circle he wouldn't know why this is a bad idea.
A transient city is ripe for a "Hostel" meets "Eyes Wide Shut" style cult to operate but they need somewhere to dump the bodies in mass.
And he's a redhead. Isn't there a little bastard running around with red hair? I'm totally reaching here, but I think VV might be playing CF with who he gave as the rapist.
Well if you remember the opening scene to this season was a field of survey stakes marking something.
Having trouble remember all his henchmen at the moment. He has one with the red hair and beard, one that talks, one that doesn't, and a 4th that elludes me at the moment. I was noticing the suits, only two of them regularly wear suits: one that talks, and one that has yet to speak. The silent one stands about as tall as VV. The thought certainly occurred to me that he could be the kiler, or any number of them, really.
I thought the $7mil/$10mil thing was that the price should have always been $7 million, but Caspere had lied and told VV it was $10 mil (stealing even more of VV's money). Huge difference in $5 mil vs $3.5 mil, in this case, or at least it would seem.
Definitely had a Lenny/Teddy vibe to it (Memento) where VV feeds CF a name/photo and a very thin story about knowing who the rapist is. CF is only slightly suspicious, and eats the story whole, evidently killing (?) the guy, which is wife detests him for (or whatever he did to the guy).
With as seedy as VV's character seems to be, sure seems like an easy opportunity to have someone, anyone, offed. AND then he's got CF in his back pocket for future favors.
Well if you remember the opening scene to this season was a field of survey stakes marking something.
Yup. That's why I mentioned the massive body farm. That scene stuck out to me. I did a pig dig in forensic anthropology where our professor buried 3 pigs that we had to survey, mark and excavate. The markers we used looked very similar.
I get the 7/10 mil part, explain the 5mil vs 3.5 mil part. The city financial/holding company scenes get pretty technical and happen so fast it's hard to fully comprehend, even with subtitles.
His real name is Christopher James Blakemen, always in the suit took the address down where Casper's sex dungeon apartment was at.
I think you're right about the land deal.
VV was splitting the 12 lot deal with someone else. A partner. Thinking that's part of what the Russian at the beginning was about, possibly? Anyway, VV didn't have enough capital to buy the whole package, so he needed to split the purchase with another investor. Hence, he (VV) was only in it for half the total price. That's why you hear VV say he lost his $5 million on the deal. Then he's even more livid when he finds out it should have only cost $7 million total, rather than $10 million.
Ah, good point. Forgot about that convo he had with the stripper/hooker at the club.
BTW, anyone read up on the City of Vernon, the city that Vinci is based on? I started to, but was afraid of spoiling the fun of following the show. the Original TD was also somewhat based on some history/legends in LA, at least as a starting point. Maybe more motivation than "Based on".
Last edited:
Came home for lunch, put on Episode 1 to rewatch with captions on.
May be a reason why Graves come to mind when seeing the field of survey stakes.
BTW, the grid manner in which the stakes are laid out looks more like a cemetery than simply mass grave. Too orderly to be random. And stakes are too close together to be property lines.
As for the lyrics, found this little Diddy when I Google the lyrics. The lyrics are hard to read, so I hadn't paid much attention until watching with closed captions on. Lots of talk of graves and hiding.
The war was lost
The treaty signed
I was not caught
I crossed the line
I was not caught
Though many tried
I love among you
Well Disguised
I had to leave
My life behind
I dug some graves
You'll never find
The story's told
With facts and lies
I have a name
but never mind
never mind
never mind
I had to leave my my life behind
The story's told
With facts and lies
You own the world so never mind
My woman's here
My children, too
Their graves are safe from ghosts like you
In places deep
with roots and twine
I live the life I left behind
the war is lost
the treaty signed
I was not caught
I crossed the line
I was not caught
Those many tried
I live you among you
Well Disguised
Here's the difference in the last verse's lyrics:
http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/True-Detective-Season-2-Theme-Song-37803350
Episode One:
"The war was lost, the treaty signed
I was not caught, I crossed the line
I was not caught, though many tried
I live among you, well disguised"
Episode Two:
"Never mind, never mind
I live the life, I left behind
There's truth that lives, and truth that dies
I don't know which, so never mind"
Another thing. VV discusses the pitch to the Russians at the start of Episode 1. He talks about Osip (Russian "opulence" guy) "being in for 5 (million)", so Osip was definitely his co-investor.
Seems like Osip could have known VV and Caspere were in for $5 million ... or not. Just interesting dialogue I missed early on.
Couple of other observations upon re-watching Episode 1 again (About 20 min in on the re-watch):
May be a reason why Graves come to mind when seeing the field of survey stakes.
BTW, the grid manner in which the stakes are laid out looks more like a cemetery than simply mass grave. Too orderly to be random. And stakes are too close together to be property lines.
As for the lyrics, found this little Diddy when I Google the lyrics. The lyrics are hard to read, so I hadn't paid much attention until watching with closed captions on. Lots of talk of graves and hiding.
The war was lost
The treaty signed
I was not caught
I crossed the line
I was not caught
Though many tried
I love among you
Well Disguised
I had to leave
My life behind
I dug some graves
You'll never find
The story's told
With facts and lies
I have a name
but never mind
never mind
never mind
I had to leave my my life behind
The story's told
With facts and lies
You own the world so never mind
My woman's here
My children, too
Their graves are safe from ghosts like you
In places deep
with roots and twine
I live the life I left behind
the war is lost
the treaty signed
I was not caught
I crossed the line
I was not caught
Those many tried
I live you among you
Well Disguised
Here's the difference in the last verse's lyrics:
http://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/True-Detective-Season-2-Theme-Song-37803350
Episode One:
"The war was lost, the treaty signed
I was not caught, I crossed the line
I was not caught, though many tried
I live among you, well disguised"
Episode Two:
"Never mind, never mind
I live the life, I left behind
There's truth that lives, and truth that dies
I don't know which, so never mind"
Another thing. VV discusses the pitch to the Russians at the start of Episode 1. He talks about Osip (Russian "opulence" guy) "being in for 5 (million)", so Osip was definitely his co-investor.
Seems like Osip could have known VV and Caspere were in for $5 million ... or not. Just interesting dialogue I missed early on.
Couple of other observations upon re-watching Episode 1 again (About 20 min in on the re-watch):
- VV's red-headed henchman was at the bar when Velcoro showed up at the bar near the beginning to talk about the alleged rapist. Red Head was the bartender in that scene. Silent guy was there too.
- The fact that the son is redheaded certainly makes it unlikely that the pictured "rapist" was not the right guy. He had dark hair and features.
- VV seems to nod and eye towards Velcoro after Velcoro walks out. Seemed like that was directed at silent guy (ie 'follow him').
- VV's red-headed henchman is closer to VV's height than the silent one than I thought. The silent one looks about 4-5 inches shorter.
- Ani has an odd wall of various knives and a wooden dummy she seems to practice against. They've shown her putting her knives in her belt and boots several times, and even had that car convo with Velcoro about why she carries the knives. Lot of time spent there so far ...
Last edited:
Definitely going to have a second viewing of the Ep 1 and 2 before next week.
They also keep showing a landscape of lit factories and Ani made some comment in the car with Velcoro (something along the lines of where do all of the factory workers live).
They also keep showing a landscape of lit factories and Ani made some comment in the car with Velcoro (something along the lines of where do all of the factory workers live).
With Powe out at the house since 7pm and everyone in the house asleep, decided to finish watching episode 1 again.
When the stakes at the beginning are shown, a sign flashes very quickly that appears to say :
"Warning
CONTAMINATED
Regulated "
Can't really make out the rest. And with HBO go I can't take screen captures.
Anyone else make out what it says?
When the stakes at the beginning are shown, a sign flashes very quickly that appears to say :
"Warning
CONTAMINATED
Regulated "
Can't really make out the rest. And with HBO go I can't take screen captures.
Anyone else make out what it says?
I don't think is the norm. Maybe in California, but I doubt it is the norm even in Cali. At least not for a smaller city.
I think it ties into the corruption and wealth of the city due to the heavy commercial industry in comparison to the low population. It's an organized crime syndicate's dream come true. Amazing corp tax rates with low govt oversight, shady deals between "holding companies", enviro regulations being kept quiet and swept under the rug, illegal alien labor, millions of dollars spread to only a handful, etc. If the city is going to pay a small time law enforcement official and quasi-political leader 300k, then you better believe that person will do a lot of work off the books and get things done with extreme discretion.
Odds are he is gay if for no other reason than there is no other gay character on the show that we know of (at least yet). And we all know you can't have a TV show without at least one gay person anymore.
Still think it's a mass burial site (mass grave is misleading b/c it implies dumping a bunch of bodies into a massive hole) what I mean is, someone gets murdered, tortured to death or whatever and a appointed person or group takes the body out to this lot/land and buries them in their own individual plot. Could be someone who "cares" a lot about each person and gives them their respect w/ a proper burial site and since he does it, he knows where to bury them (like a cemetery plot).
There's just this aura of arrogance coming from the people in Vinci who think they run stuff and it would be interesting to see the manipulation of this supposed shadow cult that truly holds all the power.
One person or group of people that nobody seems to be mentioning is the Attorney General. His/her people want this investigation wrapped up and they all seem to want to pin something on the City leaders (of course the City leaders wan the investigation to go a certain way as well). Could the money go that high?
Certainly possible and not unreasonable. Putting a 3-way (really 4 way) spin on this investigation makes it an interesting outcome:
Ani for Ventura County looking into Vinci corruption for the Attorney General, keeping particular eye on Velcoro
CHP for the State looking into Vinci corruption (Same as Ani, but independently)
Velcoro for Vinci PD removing any surprises (keeping dirt off Vinci)
Velcoro for Frank (find the money)
The fact that Ventura County and CHP are not working together on this task force, and are both indirectly answering to the Attorney General's office is indeed curious. Certainly seems like Vinci is poised to take the fall for the state. They brought up the millions the County is keeping out of the general fund, but I'm sure it's even much bigger than that.
Wife was rewatching Ep2 as I was working tonight and guess I'd missed the part if the conversation with VV and the head of Catalyst about the disposal company. VV me turns this disposal company twice in the episode.
1st time was when he reminds the Catalyst guy that he put his ass on the line with the disposal company.
VV: Caspere was my bank on all this thing. My disposal company set this up. Chemical run off, took the risk
Catalyst: And that risk afforded you the chance to buy into the corridor...
2nd time was when VV is talking to the mayor and tells him he's short $10,000 this week and that he's sold off some interests, including the disposal company.
Side comment, Jesus that Mayor is a hell of a functioning alcoholic. Always drinking and always seems buzzed. He loves his metal tumbler.
So we find out that the shooter intentionally left Velcoro alive, using rubber buck shot "like cops use".
Few other things of notice.
Few other things of notice.
- Lyrics to Intro changed again this week.
- Lyrics seemed to focus on heart and mouth. Not entirely sure if that directly foreshadowed anything in this episode.
- Why did the Raven mask wait until Velcoro was inside the house to take the camera and hard drive?
- Frank alludes to the Russian possibly being responsible for killing and robbing Caspere, which seems too obvious an outcome. We do finally hear Frank's silent henchman speak to deliver the "he looks like half anaconda and half great white"... Whatever that means.
- Frank's redhead returns after being out of pocket for a while, then Stan turns up dead. Again, things lining up a little too easy to point to red head as the killer.
- The show moved a little quick on some parts, like when they skip to Caspere'. deposit box with the paperwork and blue diamonds.
- When Velcoro is talking to the police chief of Vinci and Mayor, he asks "how's the probe looking?" not sure what he's referring to there.
- Stuff with the CHP are again painfully obvious he's battling with a homosexual past relationship. Oddly, Vinci cop is tailing him. Guessing he's been given his own directive (like Velcoro) to keep tabs on the other investigation going on.
- Why was the stolen limo dumped and set on fire at the old driver's house right at the moment Ani and Velcoro were interviewing him? Awfully convenient.
- Interesting dialog with Velcoro and his father.
Pretty good recap.
You left out Frank/hot wife having fertility issues and his hot wife "helping" to no avail.
The state police showing up at ex wife of Velcro's house (allegedly) to ask questions.
Frank beating the fat club owner and riping his grill out to show he is back.
I found the episode slow moving over all.
Yeah, most of that wasn't necessarily new info. Definitely a slow feel, the CHP scene was longer than it needed to be. Hopefully things pick up as after next episode the season will be halfway done.
I know a lot of people liked the way Frank has reverted to his old self, but I didn't really like the whole bit.
I was glad to see the Russian was still around and sounds like he may be coming back again after his business in Vegas. Seems like he's enjoying toying with Frank and Frank's suspicions are growing towards complete paranoia.
Still very little interaction with Catalyst beyond that one short convo Frank and his lackies had with that Catalyst executive. The show keeps building with Catalyst's interactions with Caspere, guessing that's where the next episode is heading.
I didn't like how clumsy it felt that Velcoro and Ani happened to come upon a suspect burning up the limo and just like that give chase to them. That is the sloppiest planting of a stolen vehicle ever. I still don't get why that limo had to be burned up at the ex-driver's house days after Caspere was murdered.
I'm also starting to lose track of how much time has passed since the show began. A couple of days? A week? More? Some of the actions of this mystery character are incredibly dumb if we're more than a couple of days out. Being that the Russian is still around, it probably isn't THAT long, but probably more than a few days as we've seen a couple of evenings pass at the very least.
Even a couple of days after the murder is a stretch for some of these actions, why keep the car that PD has already ID'd ... unless it's someone within the police department that is only getting tipped off one step ahead of Ani and Velcoro. The video camera/hard drive in the house makes zero sense if the murder happened there (which the puddle of blood seems to indicate that it did).
The workers from the State (Governor's office and Attorney General's office) are pretty shady, particularly the main black lady. Have to wonder how many bodies they're throwing at him. Seems like he's an incredibly easy low-hanging fruit to pick off, but they're going full court press on him.
Last edited:
me too....something very titillating about that little mini mystery they teased us with.
I appreciate you guys all really digging into this show just as I did last year, but then basically none of the "Easter eggs" came to fruition and i remember being really disappointed. Do you think the shows creator puts this stuff in there just for fun to get people talking? I remember last year there were all these crazy theories out there because of different comments and subtleties in certain scenes, but it ended up being pretty straight forward at the end. Anyway, i love the show. Pretty slow thus far, but it's so much darker and more ambitious than really anthing else on TV.
Pretty sure she was checking the oil with something. Not sure what. What else is going to get that kind of "I wasn't expecting that" type reaction from a guy? Doubt it was anything he was doing to her, otherwise what's the surprise?
You can't really say that none of the Easter eggs came to fruition. I mean, they showed us the killer in episode 3 and had the sign that said "NOTICE KING".
Just none of the supernatural/cult stuff did.
I agree with this. None of the Easter eggs were important to the story, which was a huge disappointment to me because it would really add to the show. The creator is really missing out by not tying the Easter eggs to the story.
The CHP story seems so useless at this point.
I completely disagree that "none of the Easter Eggs from last season paid off".
The killer viewed himself as The Yellow King (an Easter egg), belonged to a family that had a history of cult activity going back generations (another Easter egg). They were so old that they were now politicians, police chiefs and powerful people spanning the entire Louisiana lower basin (or whatever it's called)(more Easter eggs).
The Yellow King's murders were directly tied to the families who was at one time a part of the cult that were kidnapping and murdering children through faux religious schools that were propped up for "scouting" and easy targets (another Easter egg). The video tape in Rust's batcave had nothing to do w/ the Yellow King but the cult. There was a lot of cross over between the cult activity and the hush nature (the guy in the prison that was murdered) where the police officer was a relative of one of the cult members (an Easter egg - his name was only mentioned once).
The killer viewed himself as The Yellow King (an Easter egg), belonged to a family that had a history of cult activity going back generations (another Easter egg). They were so old that they were now politicians, police chiefs and powerful people spanning the entire Louisiana lower basin (or whatever it's called)(more Easter eggs).
The Yellow King's murders were directly tied to the families who was at one time a part of the cult that were kidnapping and murdering children through faux religious schools that were propped up for "scouting" and easy targets (another Easter egg). The video tape in Rust's batcave had nothing to do w/ the Yellow King but the cult. There was a lot of cross over between the cult activity and the hush nature (the guy in the prison that was murdered) where the police officer was a relative of one of the cult members (an Easter egg - his name was only mentioned once).
I also took it that part of the whole hunt and appeal with True Detective WAS all the false signs and not really knowing what was going on. The jumping around of time was largely in play to mess with our understanding and doubt of Cohle and Marty, particularly with questioning why they were being interviewed separately. The timeline jumping created doubt and interest. Season 2 is using multiple story lines to try and create the same affect, but I'm not sure they've been successful thus far.
As @ericram pointed out, CHP hasn't really contributed much to the story thus far, and yet he is coming a massive amount of screen time individually, compared to the other characters. So far, Ani has gotten the least individual screen time compared to the other 3 lead characters.
This season seems much more linear and more of a traditional "who dun it" type narrative. There are larger elements in play and lots of nuance suggesting at larger these. The suggestion and foreshadowing this time around, however, are no where near as subtle as Season 1.
It's unclear weather all this is going to build up to anything that will pay off to those of us looking for clues, or if it's just going to end unsatisfyingly cliche.
Me too....It's the little things that sustain us.
So what is the general consensus thus far on this season? I find myself not near as interested or into as last season. I am probably done watching this year unless I look at this thread next week and someone is like "OOOHHHH MMMYYY GOOOSSSHHH THAT WAS AWESOME"
Last edited:
For better or worse, it's only 8 episodes and there isn't really much else to watch at that time slot (9PM on Sunday nights).
Even if nothing else happens, I'll finish it out for sure. They really need to pick it up next episode.
