True Detective starts tonight
- Thread starter F4Gary
- Start date
Yup, sure was! I missed it first time through.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDetect..._list_of_all_important_people_we_saw_at_that/
I think the bad rap for this season is well deserved. I think the writer is really trying to show that he deserves the credit from season 1 and is failing. Nothing seems cohesive. The plot line, the characters, the actors, they all seem to be missing something. I didn't love season 1 but I think have a single director for the entire season really helps bring all the parts together.
The birdman is a red herring and not the true killer. I think birdman (or birdman/birdwoman) is looking to expose the Da Vinci corruption going all the way back to the riots and the killing of the two orphans parents, who I would suspect are the "birdmen." Why else would they not just kill Ray when going after the hard drive? Just because the birdman dumped Caspere's body, doesn't mean it was the killer.
Now have we been introduce to the orphans? Probably, they certainly look like Chessani's children, but they certainly do not seem intelligent enough to pull off such a task. Which brings us back to our flawed 'detectives', who can't seem to get out of their own way and screw up just about everything imaginable. This season's "true detective" is going to be the birdman, whoever that ends up being.
I've contemplated the revenge angle from the brother and sister. The brother ie. the Mayor's son who's running the high priced hooker Eyes Wide Shut parties mentioned that he's many things to many different people. Perhaps Caspere confessed to him or the sister overheard Caspere and her father talking. Maybe the plastic new wave surgeon told the Mayor's son something.
If it is the Skinny Lt. it would explain why he didn't kill Ray, it's his eyes on the inside investigator (one of them at least) and murdering a police officer during a high profile investigation w/ multiple agencies involved could bring a lot more eyes then you want.
The birdman could very well be Chassani's son and the arson bug in the white mask could be his daughter both of which are the blue diamond orphans (FTR, I think they clearly are - too much focus on that interview w/ the old timer combined w/ what Ray's dad said about the Chief and the other guy leaving after the LA riots).
Caspere was murdered in his sex dungeon home but the hard drive wasn't found but his actual house was also tossed (and the diamonds were found). I'd be very surprised if season 2 has a similar duel story line like season 1 did with the murder religious cult and the spaghetti monster/Yellow King. It would be cool to see, I'm just afraid that the Catalyst billion dollar investment, land poisoning and blackmail storyline (searching for the hard drive) exposed the blue diamond murders of a corrupt group of police officers that have been this way for multiple decades.
It would be awesome if the Blue Diamond Orphans discovered who was behind their parents murder while black mailing these politicians and high profile people and they went on a revenge rampage Quentin Tarantino and The Bride would be proud of.
Remember this though- when interviewing the Chessani son he was using an alter ego and broke from character when confronted about it, seems like there's a lot more to him than he lets on. Also the daughter was looking at paper work when they opened the door on her.
I missed it too. I did catch the AG that was supposedly investigating the Vinci guys, so the fact that they were all there together just drives home the point that the whole Vinci investigation was just a shakedown.
I don't know. Season 1 was in English. Season 2 is Foreign Language. Pretty impressive.
I've been thinking about this show a bit. I was slow to take in this season, probably influenced by all the negative advance press. And the first one or two were awful slow and fairly boring/dense. But finally one weekend I binged on 3-4 in a row, and I really came around to it.
I think the biggest issue is that a lot of critics went overboard overrating the first season, and then felt kind of foolish as it played out. There was a lot of backtracking at the end of season 1, but I think there was also a whole lot of inclination to bury this one because of that, to get their licks in now, and prove that they aren't suckers. I think the critical response has been more negative than the show deserves, at least in comparison to season one.
People are acting as if Season 1 was an A+, and this is an F. I think it's a lot closer to Season 1 being a B+ and this being a B- or C+. It's a lot closer than it's being made out to be, for me.
The huge difference is the leads. McC and Harrelson masked a LOT of the ridiculous by owning the screen the way they did. It's hard to think of an example of leads elevating the material more than that. That's not a bad thing, but it was almost certainly not duplicable.
The thing is, once you get past the performances...last season was bat---crazy. Next level bonkers. With a too much info, confusing plot lines, things that went nowhere, and somehow a lot of boring stuff too. But the leads, and the whole Yellow King red herring, distracted.
These four leads are not bad at all...but they just don't have the gravitas last years' leads do. And that's ok. I'm actually digging them more and more as the show goes on, because these characters and the performances are as totally wacked out as the story. This isn't "serious drama". This is nuthouse stuff...Chinatown type stuff, and these performances fit right in. I'm enjoying Vince Vaughn more and more every week.
I don't think it's a great show, but I think it's a good and enjoyable show, and should be more or less allowed to just be what it is, instead of trying to live up to being prestige drama.
To be fair...the creator brings a lot of that on himself, with his arrogance and his clear aspirations toward prestige drama. I don't think he has a great handle on his own work.
I think the biggest issue is that a lot of critics went overboard overrating the first season, and then felt kind of foolish as it played out. There was a lot of backtracking at the end of season 1, but I think there was also a whole lot of inclination to bury this one because of that, to get their licks in now, and prove that they aren't suckers. I think the critical response has been more negative than the show deserves, at least in comparison to season one.
People are acting as if Season 1 was an A+, and this is an F. I think it's a lot closer to Season 1 being a B+ and this being a B- or C+. It's a lot closer than it's being made out to be, for me.
The huge difference is the leads. McC and Harrelson masked a LOT of the ridiculous by owning the screen the way they did. It's hard to think of an example of leads elevating the material more than that. That's not a bad thing, but it was almost certainly not duplicable.
The thing is, once you get past the performances...last season was bat---crazy. Next level bonkers. With a too much info, confusing plot lines, things that went nowhere, and somehow a lot of boring stuff too. But the leads, and the whole Yellow King red herring, distracted.
These four leads are not bad at all...but they just don't have the gravitas last years' leads do. And that's ok. I'm actually digging them more and more as the show goes on, because these characters and the performances are as totally wacked out as the story. This isn't "serious drama". This is nuthouse stuff...Chinatown type stuff, and these performances fit right in. I'm enjoying Vince Vaughn more and more every week.
I don't think it's a great show, but I think it's a good and enjoyable show, and should be more or less allowed to just be what it is, instead of trying to live up to being prestige drama.
To be fair...the creator brings a lot of that on himself, with his arrogance and his clear aspirations toward prestige drama. I don't think he has a great handle on his own work.
What I like about this theory is it explains why the hard drive was not recovered until Ray walked into the scene and stumbled upon it. It was like the guy in the bird mask wanted him to see the scene and see the hard drive. That one aspect never made sense was why the "Birdman" was sitting in the car waiting for Ray to go inside the house days after Caspere turns up dead. Why wait to recover the hard drive, unless you wanted people to be aware of it.
Then again, why go through all this effort to expose the Divinci corruption? Why not use the video footage on the hard drive against Caspere, the Catalyst guy, etc? Why not just take the hard drive straight to a viable source?
Obviously the blue diamonds were stolen from police evidence, after they were recovered from Caspere's safety deposit box. They would have to have connections to the police. Guess it would have been easy enough for Dixon to steal them, since we found out that he'd been looking for them at pawn shops before Ani and Woodrugh found them in CAspere's deposit box.
If the birdman is looking to expose the whole corruption angle, then it's certainly not any of the characters we know. It would seem like Chessani's daugher might have a motive due to her mother's suicide and seeming to be somewhat of a prisoner in her own home. But she's no where near tall enough to be the Birdman. None of the other characters we've met so far would benefit from exposing Vinci. Wondering if this year's conclusion is similar to last year where the main guy is someone we didn't really notice and wasn't a major character.
So far unless there's some amazing twists I'm not anticipating it's been a poorly written and uninteresting season. It looks like this is just going to be a "behind the Bohemian Grove" type of cult/power storyline. Seriously, if you haven't heard of it, look up Bohemian Grove and watch some of the little YouTube videos. It's basically Eyes Wide Shut with more prostitutes and stupid cult rituals but with former presidents of the U.S. and other Skull and Bones members.
Unless this ends on a high note, I wouldn't give this season any more than C-. It's been very slow and uninteresting. The acting has been good excluding the gay Chips angle, but good acting can only cover so much for horrible plotting and editing.
Meanwhile I would give last season an A+. The only drama I liked better last year was Fargo, I preferred True Detective to even Game of Thrones. It's a shame that the producer/writer is an arrogant contrarian SOB. Last season was successful because of the great acting and the greater Cthullos Mythos angle very carefully hidden yet still visible to even the average viewer. It was a puzzle to find all of the great hidden references. So what do you do for season two? Scrap all of the actors and get rid of any interesting Cthullos or other occult puzzles to solve. Yes there's a cult in here in the vein of Bohemian Grove but it's entirely uninteresting to me.
True, it started miserably slow. I still even in hindsight don't like the first two or three episodes, it took a LONG time for them to get setup and I would not have given most shows that long of a benefit of the doubt but it was HBO and the acting was good even early on. So I stuck with it longer than normal and was rewarded. This season though....we're only two episodes from the end and I still hate it. Unless there's some mindblowing twist and/or something huge I've missed...meh. I'm NOT loving it.
I have watched the first two episodes of season 1 on three different occasions and I am actually five minutes away from the end of episode 3 of season 1 and think that this series sucks, but because of all the good reviews here, I am going to give episode 4 a shot in a few minutes and then decide if I will continue or not.
Season 1 is definitely worth sticking with. And if you can find episode reviews with all of the easter eggs explained that were written contemporaneously (but NOT giving you spoilers) you'll find it far more enjoyable. I enjoyed reading all of the easter eggs and references almost as much as the show itself. There's very few shows like that.
This season...not so much...at least so far.
Harmonielehre: Pt. II: The Anfortas Wound by San Francisco Symphony & Michael Tilson Thomas
Yep, except EWS had better eye candy.
They didn't even show Rachel McAdams getting strip searched. She's Canadian for god's sake. Thta said she had some mad knife skills, like a maximum security inmate skills, a la Charlie Crews (Damien Lewis) in the TV series Life.
Season 2 has been really ueven, like how game of thrones has a different director each episode and you can tell.
But to be fair i thought after the first few episodes season 1 was s masterpiece, and Mcconaughey created one of the most memorable characters ive ever seen. Id have given him every award but thats hollywood.
But to be fair i thought after the first few episodes season 1 was s masterpiece, and Mcconaughey created one of the most memorable characters ive ever seen. Id have given him every award but thats hollywood.
- The blue diamonds were found in Caspere's safety deposit box by Ani and Paul .
- The stones then go missing.
- The contact of the missing girl Ani is tracking gives Ani photos that were mailed. The photos included pictures from the sex parties and the blue diamonds.
- In checking area pawn shops for the missing stones, Paul stumbles upon a pawn shop owner that remembers another cop that had come around looking for them before they'd been recovered by Ani and Paul from Caspere's deposit box. The description of the cop is Officer Dixon, whom we also saw tailing Paul at that rodeo he was at with his old army buddy.
- Paul also gets info from a pawn shop owner that recognizes the blue diamonds as being part of a heist from 1992. It was memorable because the stones were incredibly rare and worth millions. The robbery also coincided with the Rodney King riots in LA, which rendered the crime scene useless for evidence.
- The jewelry shop owners from the 1992 robbery were killed during the robbery. Their two children (from the photos) witnessed the robbery and survived.
- The cop Paul talks to about the robbery seems to parallel a conversation between Ray and his father about the good ole days before Rodney King and the riots.
- That old cop also remembered the two kids that survived and seemed to get emotional over the photo Paul showed him of the kids.
I think watching Season 1 now and being able to binge watch them all kinda takes away from what made it great. Those who watched it live got to enjoy some theories and discover Easter eggs upon repeat watching.
The creepiness factor from season 1 has been nowhere close to replicated in season 2. Ditto with the dialogue. I also really enjoyed the time line skipping back and forth. The interview style made viewers early on question if MM or WH could have been the killers. Loved everything about season 1. Finale could have been better, but still great season.
Plenty of intelligent thought and I tried watching from the beginning a couple of times, I just thought that it was slow, especially where there was just 8 episodes. I thought that the acting was great, especially MM. I think, overall, the cast/acting in 2 is better. I know that I am in the extreme minority when 8 say that I think that 2 was better.
I found this solid theory on Reddit regarding the Russian Osip and our dead man Stan:
Let’s talk about the obvious – the Russians. They showed up when Caspere died and are seen with all of the major players, yet they almost seem to be overlooked as the primary suspects behind everything. Could they be behind it all? Here’s a theory that tries to put it all together.
Osip has Caspere killed just before arriving in the US. The Russians ransack Caspere’s house and take Frank’s money. This undercuts the deal Frank made with Caspere. We even see Osip mockingly tell Frank in episode one that he can’t wait to meet Caspere – it seems clear he knows Caspere is dead. With Frank’s money gone his entire empire, including his ability to hold the casino for long, is in trouble. And we know ‘a foreign buyer’ has expressed interest in it – the Russians. Frank scraps to get his clubs back and manages to stay afloat.
Tascha was working for the Russians. She was one of those “elite untouchable European chicks” and for Caspere she was different – as Paul learns from the male prostitute in Frank’s club. Tascha was having sex with Caspere; I assume this is the gonorrhea connection. The Russians used her to get close to Caspere, who often didn’t approach women, and gain information. She was also able to get Caspere to the house in Hollywood where the Russians wanted him to be killed. They drive Caspere’s body up the coast, and Tascha is no longer needed and is taken up to the cabin where she is killed. The cabin hadn’t been used in some time, but the birds flying above the cabin suggest her death in the shack was fairly recent. They didn’t kill her at the Hollywood house because her death might in some way be a link back to the Russians. The Russians wanted Caspere killed at the Hollywood house because they knew about the blackmail movies and Catalyst’s involvement from Tascha. They didn’t take the HD at the Hollywood house initially because they needed someone else to find it first and report that it exists and is now missing. Doing that would put Catalyst on their heels while not initially exposing the Russian’s position. It just turns out Ray is the one that find the HD. Again they need him alive so riot shells are used only after he sees the HD. The Russians will/are using the HD as leverage against Catalyst or the other prominent people who might be on the video. Perhaps Catalyst made the same deal to the Russians as they did to Frank, and offered to gift some land in exchange for the missing HD which they think is just simply missing.
Blake and/or Stan made a deal with the Russians, perhaps to gain a piece of Frank’s empire once he is gone, perhaps the casino. Stan either found out about Blake, or in some other way became a risk and was killed. His eyes are burned out just like Caspere because it’s the same killer both times – the Russians. This helps explain why Blake is seen with the Chessani son, Pitlor and Osip later on.
The Vinci PD and the diamonds are the red herring. The Vinci PD were also buying in on the land deal with Caspere and paid him with the blue diamonds. Caspere came up with the cash to cover their part by overcharging Frank by a few million. The pictures that surfaced of the diamonds are evidence of them being transferred to Caspere, which is how he came to possess them. When Vinci PD finds out Caspere is dead they start searching for their diamonds. This explains why Burris shows up in Hollywood so quickly, he’s there to look for the missing diamonds. It also explains why they put Dixon, and only Dixon, on the case with Ray in the beginning. They wanted to ensure that if he finds the diamonds they find their way back to Vinci PD. In fact, they do find the diamonds and Dixon ensures they find their way back to Vinci PD. With their diamonds safely back in their hands, they frame the Mexicans and get the case shut and the spotlight taken off of Vinci.
The investigation is reopened. From there, Ani, Frank and Paul find a way to infiltrate one of the sex parties where we learn about the deal between the Russians and Catalyst, this time for $12 million. The Russians who previously had cold feet about getting into a smaller deal with Frank, are now suddenly ready to drop significantly more money directly with Catalyst. So their position is clearly strengthened at this point.
I know this doesn’t explain everything, but it’s the most sense I can make out of what’s happened so far. What do you think?
Let’s talk about the obvious – the Russians. They showed up when Caspere died and are seen with all of the major players, yet they almost seem to be overlooked as the primary suspects behind everything. Could they be behind it all? Here’s a theory that tries to put it all together.
Osip has Caspere killed just before arriving in the US. The Russians ransack Caspere’s house and take Frank’s money. This undercuts the deal Frank made with Caspere. We even see Osip mockingly tell Frank in episode one that he can’t wait to meet Caspere – it seems clear he knows Caspere is dead. With Frank’s money gone his entire empire, including his ability to hold the casino for long, is in trouble. And we know ‘a foreign buyer’ has expressed interest in it – the Russians. Frank scraps to get his clubs back and manages to stay afloat.
Tascha was working for the Russians. She was one of those “elite untouchable European chicks” and for Caspere she was different – as Paul learns from the male prostitute in Frank’s club. Tascha was having sex with Caspere; I assume this is the gonorrhea connection. The Russians used her to get close to Caspere, who often didn’t approach women, and gain information. She was also able to get Caspere to the house in Hollywood where the Russians wanted him to be killed. They drive Caspere’s body up the coast, and Tascha is no longer needed and is taken up to the cabin where she is killed. The cabin hadn’t been used in some time, but the birds flying above the cabin suggest her death in the shack was fairly recent. They didn’t kill her at the Hollywood house because her death might in some way be a link back to the Russians. The Russians wanted Caspere killed at the Hollywood house because they knew about the blackmail movies and Catalyst’s involvement from Tascha. They didn’t take the HD at the Hollywood house initially because they needed someone else to find it first and report that it exists and is now missing. Doing that would put Catalyst on their heels while not initially exposing the Russian’s position. It just turns out Ray is the one that find the HD. Again they need him alive so riot shells are used only after he sees the HD. The Russians will/are using the HD as leverage against Catalyst or the other prominent people who might be on the video. Perhaps Catalyst made the same deal to the Russians as they did to Frank, and offered to gift some land in exchange for the missing HD which they think is just simply missing.
Blake and/or Stan made a deal with the Russians, perhaps to gain a piece of Frank’s empire once he is gone, perhaps the casino. Stan either found out about Blake, or in some other way became a risk and was killed. His eyes are burned out just like Caspere because it’s the same killer both times – the Russians. This helps explain why Blake is seen with the Chessani son, Pitlor and Osip later on.
The Vinci PD and the diamonds are the red herring. The Vinci PD were also buying in on the land deal with Caspere and paid him with the blue diamonds. Caspere came up with the cash to cover their part by overcharging Frank by a few million. The pictures that surfaced of the diamonds are evidence of them being transferred to Caspere, which is how he came to possess them. When Vinci PD finds out Caspere is dead they start searching for their diamonds. This explains why Burris shows up in Hollywood so quickly, he’s there to look for the missing diamonds. It also explains why they put Dixon, and only Dixon, on the case with Ray in the beginning. They wanted to ensure that if he finds the diamonds they find their way back to Vinci PD. In fact, they do find the diamonds and Dixon ensures they find their way back to Vinci PD. With their diamonds safely back in their hands, they frame the Mexicans and get the case shut and the spotlight taken off of Vinci.
The investigation is reopened. From there, Ani, Frank and Paul find a way to infiltrate one of the sex parties where we learn about the deal between the Russians and Catalyst, this time for $12 million. The Russians who previously had cold feet about getting into a smaller deal with Frank, are now suddenly ready to drop significantly more money directly with Catalyst. So their position is clearly strengthened at this point.
I know this doesn’t explain everything, but it’s the most sense I can make out of what’s happened so far. What do you think?
There are big holes in this theory.
- So the Russians waited to kill Tashca for 2 months? Remember, when we resume after the shoot-out, 2 months have passed and the investigation into Caspere's death is closed. Those birds are not going to be circling months or even weeks after the body has been removed. Whoever was killed there was killed recently. Also, everyone on the case has aleady pinned Capere's murder on the Mexicans, so there has been no heat on that trail since the shootout.
- The head of Catalyst is still on the trail for the tape lost at the S&M house. That's why he's put Frank on it and offered him (false promise?) to get back in on the deal.
- Shortly after this, the head of Catalyst is seen at the party with Pitlor, Osip, Toni, Captain of Vinci PD, and Blake. It would seem all sides are cozy, not at odds with each other. Does not seem likely the Russians are blackmailing Catalyst, but it does seem obvious that they are in on the deal behind Frank's back and directly with Catalyst. This was brought up earlier in the season. They may have found out the land should have only been for $10 million, not $12 million like Caspere had angled to Frank.
- Because of #2, that does not explain why the Russians would want Ray to find the HD just before he's shot. Ray never gives the HD much additional thought. It becomes Frank that starts hunting the HD only because Catalyst asks him for it. Ray finding it had nothing to do with that, Catalyst already knew it existed. There was no need for Ray to find it to progress the story.
Just some quick thoughts. The Russians are clearly in play, no one is overlooking them. It's also clear from the last episode that Chessani, Vinci PD, Pitlor, Blake, Osip, and Catalyst are all in cahaoots.
I think I remember a line where the AG was running for governor and had a recent infusion of capital into his campaign war chest.
I don't pay that close of attention to all the twists and turns, but is it possible Ray's shooter tailed him to the house, and didn't know the location, and just discovered the house (and the hard drive) at that moment? Or do we know the shooter was waiting for him?
@Nole Lou I'll have to double check, but I'm pretty sure the Lincoln was parked facing the opposite direction as Ray's car as he pulls up. Going to check it out now.
Edit: got lucky, had the episode downloaded on my phone. Ray parks facing the black car and approaches from the left. You can see the black car has its lights off.
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