2018 NBA Playoffs-
- Thread starter given2fly
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Belem I am not saying he isn't a great player; just think the dude whines to much. IMO he doesn't make the players on his team better or put them in places to make big plays. Everyone will say MJ had all this talent; maybe because MJ made the players on his team better. I don't see that with Lebron. He ran his coach off to get Lue, ran off Kyrie, the players on that team are there because Lebron wants them on that team. Whether they are the right fit or not. Lebron also won't take less money in order to get more mid-level talent. That is his right, but then don't be surprised by what your team looks like.
For the record I think Lebron is the greatest athlete to ever play in the NBA; just not the best player ever in the NBA. In fact I can think of 5 guys off the top of my head that were better bball players than Lebron. Bball is not all about scoring, lots of guys can put up points and look like the goat; but only the greatest or most special players make their team better by making the role players look like really good players.
Right, he doesn’t make those around him better- he just drags any four guys to the finals EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I mean, other than that, and scoring 40-50 points a game thru the finals what has this weak chump done?
I think you don’t know a lot about basketball if you believe this crap. LeBron averaged 27-9-8 on like 54% shooting this year. This isn’t some high volume James Harden type. He’s also an elite defender when he turns it on. He affects the game in more ways than anyone to ever play. Can guard 4 positions and arguably can play all 5 offensively.
Again not saying he isn't a great player. Belem you say he drags his team to the finals by scoring 40-50 per game and Qua you pretty much say the same.
Exactly my point did MJ or anyone else have to do that, NO. Because they figured out how to make those around them better. Please don't tell me he has no talent. Anyone on that team is there because Lebron said they could be; so if he has no talent on his team who's fault is that.
Great for Lebron he is amazing not debating that. I am saying he is weak mentally and whines. You guys actually make my case by stating his all world stats; maybe if he thought about making his team better he could get by with 30-10-5 and rest for a few minutes a game.
Exactly my point did MJ or anyone else have to do that, NO. Because they figured out how to make those around them better. Please don't tell me he has no talent. Anyone on that team is there because Lebron said they could be; so if he has no talent on his team who's fault is that.
Great for Lebron he is amazing not debating that. I am saying he is weak mentally and whines. You guys actually make my case by stating his all world stats; maybe if he thought about making his team better he could get by with 30-10-5 and rest for a few minutes a game.
Riiiiiiigght. Other guys don’t do what Lebron does not because they can’t - but because they’re so mentally strong they don’t have to.
I want some of what you’re drinking. Except that it’s probably CTE.
I want some of what you’re drinking. Except that it’s probably CTE.
Honestly, the part I like best is when the MJ supporters bring up the number of championships won as the determining factor but summarily dismiss Hall of Famer Bill Russell and his 11 rings.
Yeah, actually I was an MJ guy until I heard Isaiah Thomas talk about it and then I flipped to Lebron....
I guess Steph wasn't hurt last night. The guys ability to heal, get hurt, heal, get hurt...is amazing.
Or how people view the NBA Finals through the lens of LeBron vs MJ. Who cares?
MJ v LB is really a classic apples and oranges thing. Two very different styles of player.
I don't much care for Labron due to the whining, pouting and flopping, but look what he does with his surrounding cast. J.R. Smith, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, et. al. Decent players, but only the most devout basketball fan knows anything about them. Compare that to Scottie Pippen, the Worm, Horace Grant, and some white guard who shot lights out...oh yeah, Steve Kerr. Now, the point could validly be made that none of those guys were anything special until MG got ahold of them, but still. As a poster said earlier, neither James or Jordan would make a lot of people's Top 5. It's all about the eras they played in. Can you really compare them to the Big O, Cousy, Havlicek, Dr. J., etc.?
I don't much care for Labron due to the whining, pouting and flopping, but look what he does with his surrounding cast. J.R. Smith, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, et. al. Decent players, but only the most devout basketball fan knows anything about them. Compare that to Scottie Pippen, the Worm, Horace Grant, and some white guard who shot lights out...oh yeah, Steve Kerr. Now, the point could validly be made that none of those guys were anything special until MG got ahold of them, but still. As a poster said earlier, neither James or Jordan would make a lot of people's Top 5. It's all about the eras they played in. Can you really compare them to the Big O, Cousy, Havlicek, Dr. J., etc.?
Who are the people who wouldn’t have MJ and/or LeBron in their top 5? Those people should be stoned.
MJ v Lebron debate is something the media loves to harp on because it gives talking heads something to talk about. I don't care for the debate at all and can't understand why others are obsessed with it. Different players, different eras, different games.
What I'm more curious about is what happens this offseason. Lebron would be insane to stay in CLE without a total overhaul of their roster. If he leaves, HOU, LAL, PHI appear to be the top 3 destinations. I can't stand Harden but that team would be interesting with him. LAL has a gutted roster with 2 guys who can play a role in the future. PHI is young, talented and Lebron has a man crush on Ben Simmons (who's dating Kendall Jenner btw).
I'd really like to see him land in Philly. I'll root for him so long as he's not playing GSW.
Another fun scenario... Lebron to BOS and Kyrie gets shipped back to a hapless CLE squad, lol.
What I'm more curious about is what happens this offseason. Lebron would be insane to stay in CLE without a total overhaul of their roster. If he leaves, HOU, LAL, PHI appear to be the top 3 destinations. I can't stand Harden but that team would be interesting with him. LAL has a gutted roster with 2 guys who can play a role in the future. PHI is young, talented and Lebron has a man crush on Ben Simmons (who's dating Kendall Jenner btw).
I'd really like to see him land in Philly. I'll root for him so long as he's not playing GSW.
Another fun scenario... Lebron to BOS and Kyrie gets shipped back to a hapless CLE squad, lol.
Actually they probably are already and a little too much too often.
I hate the Lebron never has anyone around him argument. He’s always whining. Meanwhile he built the Cavs teams. Meanwhile, besides Irving, who Lebron pushes out, the Cavs starting lineup for the finals is the same as it was for all the previous finals: Lebron, Love, Smith and Thompson. The guy picks the players, picks the coach and he still complains. The guy lost two finals with the stacked stacked Heat teams he was on. What was the excuse then?
I don't think anyone was making the "no talent around him" excuse when he was in Miami. The excuses are:
year 1 - vs mavs - team still gelling, spo brand new to coaching.
year 4 - vs spurs - spurs were a great team, loaded roster, top to bottom, w one of the greatest coaches ever. no excuses.
The "Lebron pushed Kyrie out" narrative sounds bogus, Kyrie wanted to be the man and left in order to do so - it wasn't going to happen on a team that also had the greatest player on earth.
That Cavs line up beat a Ws team that had the best reg season record ever, quite a feat. Then that Ws team added the #2 player in the world. I don't think there's much the Cavs could do to counter considering their cap situation, crappy owner, overpaying Tristan, and Kevin Love oscillating between injuries and ineffectiveness.
I'll admit, it was pretty amazing that the Cavs even competed w/ the Ws for 4 quarters in game 1 and 3 quarters in game 2. The Ws have one of the most stacked rosters I can remember and Lebron is single-handedly making things competitive. Granted Ws do seem to enjoy playing down to the level of their competition.
Isaiah was the guy who “iced” Jordan on the East All-Star team in MJ’s rookie year. He’s the biggest phony in sports. He’s just bitter and jealous that he’s never mentioned in the same breath with the ultra elites like MJ and Magic and Bird, and now LeBron.Yeah, actually I was an MJ guy until I heard Isaiah Thomas talk about it and then I flipped to Lebron....
He complains? I know fans do, but when has he complained about his teammates?
Use the ol internet’s and look it up yourself. There are literally complilations made of Lebron complaining. He moans and groans all game long about the refs and his reactions to “his players” as he called them two days ago are priceless. Numerous reports of him taking to David Griffin about needing playmakers around him. Why did he leave Cleveland for Miami? It wasn’t the weather. Even after he lost the last finals with Miami, numerous reports about him suggesting he had to do to much. Come on man, take off that Lebron jersey and face the facts.
Well, that’s a dog’s breakfast of a post. I asked when he complained about having weak teammates and you replied with: him complaining about calls, him calling them “his players”, and him leaving a team a decade ago. No where in that pile did you supply what you claim is so obvious.
Have never heard that saying before, but our dogs always beg until they get to share some of our meals.
You are the first person I’ve ever encountered that doesn’t seem to know Lebron complains about his teammates. I don’t feel a need to justify it on my end because it’s common knowledge, but here’s a gem:
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/galle...roster-and-now-is-complaining-about-it-012617
I didn’t know we were also working within a time constraint on his career. So him complaining about lack of talent around him has to be within the last 4 years? Him leaving Cleveland for Miami 8 years ago so he can win championships cause he was complaining about his team and ability to get the players he wanted there doesn’t count?
I hope this works, I got this from reddit. Its the uncut footage of Lebron, JR Smith, huddle after Smith's mistake at the end of Game 1. Look at Lebron ask the question and subsequent face/slouch at 1:30 regarding how many timeouts were left... LOL.
What you post are speculations and innuendo. When he left for Miami he didn’t trash the Cavs, he just left. Letting management know in private who he wants to play with isn’t trashing his teammates.
There are biased glasses being worn, but the brand is “hater”.
There are biased glasses being worn, but the brand is “hater”.
The locker room - providing useless info since 1995.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog's breakfast
Oh I got it, so if it isn’t done in public, it didn’t happen? I don’t hate Lebron as a player. He’s clearly amazing and one of the best to ever play. He played out of his mind on Thursday night. That doesn’t mean I have to overlook what a lot of other people see.
-Letting management know, in private, that you want to trade certain teammates, is trashing your teammates.
-Leaving Cleveland, because you can’t get the caliber of player you want to play with, is trashing your current teammates.
-Saying the Cavs team is “top heavy”, is trashing your teammates.
No, that’s recognizing the teams limitations. After beating the Celtics the on court reporter asked if getting “this team to the finals” was his greatest accomplishment, implying that this version of the Cavs was garbage, Lebron defended them and said like he has all season that it’s a team game.
Now, you can BELIEVE that he thinks they’re crap and wants better players or that he’s working to improve the lineup, but what he says every night is that they’re the reason the team is there.
Now, you can BELIEVE that he thinks they’re crap and wants better players or that he’s working to improve the lineup, but what he says every night is that they’re the reason the team is there.
This is exactly what I am talking about. Ok you got hosed and a bad play happened. Your going to OT and still have a chance to steal game 1. Instead of rallying the role players he pouts, cross his arms etc. I don't know about anyone else but every coach I had said never cross your arms and never put your hands on your hips. The body language is terrible. The outcome of OT is there for your viewing. They scored 7 points. Role players take their lead from the star and Lebron showed them exactly how he felt.
Wait so he's supposed to stay in a situation that he knows isn't likely to result in a championship and bite his tongue re: improvements?
Really? He's the greatest player on the planet and likely among the most intelligent as well, and you want him to sit there and not suggest changes after nearly 14 years in the NBA? Seems you've got a misguided view of what a leader and champion ought to be doing.
Ok man, we're talking about championship caliber players, not a bunch of HS kids who can't put their jocks on the right way.
What you saw in that video was likely something crystallizing in Lebron's mind that we've all known for 12+ months. His team is full of mediocre talent and he needs to get the heck out of dodge. He put that team on his back and that they couldn't even make the simplest of plays in clutch, a) hitting a FT, b) knowing the score, c) knowing how many timeouts are left, d) putting up a shot from 5 feet out.
Some of you arm chair coaches and etiquette enthusiasts seem to think that game was a teaparty and not one of the greatest NBA finals efforts ever from one of the greatest players ever, only to be sabotaged by the bumbling idiocy of the guy everyone except Lebron already knew was a bumbling idiot.
It appears there's a double standard for sideline behavior. There's video after video of Tom Brady eviscerating his own teammates and coaches, yet he's a fiery competitor. Meanwhile Lebron keeps it dignified, doesn't lash out a teammate who cost them a game in the NBA finals, and because he wasn't patting the guy on the buttocks, he's pouting. SMH. What on earth.
Ok, I can't let go of this post. It's just absurd.
Tom Brady would have decapitated JR Smith years ago, Lebron has put up with this doofus' antics, Kevin Love disappearing acts, Tristan's draining of the roster, etc... with nary a public peep.
I'm just baffled how one guy gets called "fiery" for publicly humiliating anyone who crosses his path, even his own coaches, and the other is a whiner or pouter because he stated mute after one of his teammates made a devastating mistake.
What planet am I living on?!
I mean, I'm a Warriors fan defending Lebron, that alone is enough to call into question the sanity of this universe.
Uh who decided on who the players on this team would be, who decided on the coach for this team, who has decided on everything the Cavs have? We will never agree. If your a Warriors fan look at how they play and look at how the Cavs play. Granted there were a few times the Cavs, lead by Lebron actually moved the ball around and changed their spacing. Other than that they stand around and do nothing.
Your Brady analogy is actually proving my point. Had Lebron gone off and started taking charge that would have at least been something but he didn't. He sat on the bench put his head down and fold his arms. That is exactly what guys who are about themselves do and who are not about making those around them better. Lebron will go down as one of the best; but likely with only a couple of rings. Throw in not moving for less than a max deal and a team will clear important role players to get him; all the while Lebron will wonder why he has no talent around him. Lebron is amazing, but he is to wrapped up in doing everything and when he can't do it he pouts; and gets mad at the team mates he never involved in the game.
Honestly it is probably not Lenron's fault for his attitude. He has never had a decent coach who could help him learn to be a team player. He likely learned in middle school that he could do it all and still win 75% of his games.
This is absurd, yet again.
Brady isn't taking charge when he's humiliating his coaches and teammates on the sidelines. He's making an ass of himself but for whatever reason the media treats him with baby gloves and doesn't call out his petulance for what it is.
Lebron stayed quiet, collected his thoughts, let his anger subside, then got up and played the OT. If you are a hater of the guy (and/or assume he ought to act like an emotionless robot), then you'll irrationally see that as "pouting".
As for seeking out max deals, yes, that's what players ought to do. It's not their job to give ownership a discount on their services. The Warriors are actually bad for the NBA in that regard, playing for less, giving already wealthy owners a break, unnecessarily and allowing one team to unfairly stockpile talent. I wasn't a fan of the KD move, I'm still not, but I'll cheer for the team regardless.
Also, saying he never gets teammates involved in the game... really?! All these years the slam on him was he lets teammates do too much and is reluctant to take over when he's clearly the best player on the court. Now suddenly he "never" gets them involved? My god, will folks stop moving the goal posts just to suit their agenda!? Aside from the petulant child that is Kyrie Irving, who's gonna say Bron was a bad teammate? He's got Mike Miller and DWade following him around, Korver singing his praises, JR Smith would prob be in rehab without him.
I'll agree that he never had a decent coach. Spo was an unqualified puppet, the string of guys the Cavs have trotted out there from day one have been newbies who haven't earned any respect. But truth be told, who are the good coaches these days? Pop, yes. Who else? D'antoni is a sucker, can't strategize thru a 7 game series, and Harden doesn't care what he says. Kerr, well he's done well but considering how KD shrugs him off and the fact that he landed on the jackpot to begin with, it's tough to say. Stevens, that last 7 game series didn't reflect too well on his skills. Lue might not actually be terrible compared to your average NBA coach at the moment.
He can do whatever he pleases. However, if you leave a team because you feel like you can’t win a championship there, does that have anything to do with how you perceive your teamates? If you state, “The Cavs are top heavy”, does that not imply that most of your teamates are garbage?
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