Good to know people on message boards have theories. I'll take my tin foil hat off and try to trust the folks we put in charge.
CoronaVirus article
- Thread starter supergreennole
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I'm not sure it matters what the doctors you see are stressing because it is more deadly than the flu. Virologists and immunologists, the experts on this, say it's more deadly than the flu. I was talking to my buddy, orthopedic surgeon, about it and he said "don't ask me I operate on knees."
Exactly. I don't know how dangerous this is but when the whole world responds like it has I have to assume they're doing it for a reason.
You a doctor?
Based on what? How many patients do Virologist and immunologist see a day?
I’ll take the word of those who work in ERs over those who just read reports. Virologist and immunologist rely on tax payer money so they are going to talk in a way to create more panic to get more funding. Notice at first how much talked about not having a vaccine for it which is dumb because he knows one won’t be ready to give to the public.
The logical progression is quite amazing:
1. It's a China problem
2. It's a Europe problem
3. It's really not that big of a deal
4. It's a media hoax to get rid of Trump
5. It's just the flu
6. Just wash your hands
7. It's just the elderly dying
8. The government is just putting on a show for funding and more tests
yes lets not listen to the guys with specialization in this exact area lets listen to ER doctors who have no such specialization.
The doctors are not the ones asking for multi-millions on funding.
Look I think it’s something to take serious and we’re going to see numbers go up not because of how contagious it is but because well to be blunt the American public are generally idiots so they don’t get the concept of staying home when sick and practicing good hygiene. Already you have 1 guy who took a jet blue flight while having the virus, a Harvard professor who kept making trips to China last month, and employee at an elderly home that kept going to work even though he was clearly sick. A lot of people in this country just don’t use common sense.
Well for 7 that’s mainly the honest truth even in China. For 8 its not the “government” but an agency funded by the government. In a business different departments try to present on why they need more money, same thing here.
or to you?
I have not made medical recommendations to anyone.
Yeah your bias about this situation is clearly showing through. Saying things like they have decided not to treat the elderly is not true. They have more patients than they can deal with, which is why our measures are being implemented.
He is right that much more of their population is over 65. I believe that only 1 person in Italy has died that’s been under 70. Also Italy’s healthcare system <<<<<<<<<<<<< US healthcare system
Just because he says one fact followed up by an opinion doesn’t make both of them fax. That’s a common wait for people to try to spread misinformation or to prove their point but the reality is you can’t really do that and expect to get credibility.
It is true. Read for yourself.
https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/12...e-icu-care-for-patients-with-best-chance-of-s
I just don’t see the difference between this and the swine flu that hit us in 2009. I take this disease serious but I think we’ve completely overreact in how we handled it.
Here is a link that shows that there have been deaths amongst younger ages in Italy. Not a significant portion, but they are there. Also notice that the article states that people under the age of 30 are being effected. Which makes the spread to older ages more problematic. https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/italy-coronavirus-outbreak/
Nowhere in that article did it say that they’re not treating people just because they’re old. You have to have some kind of context in order to really discuss that article. Your conclusion is ridiculous and I don’t really know what other way to say it other than it’s wrong
There are three reasons why you can't use the statistics from Italy. 1. 22 percent of the country is over 65. 2. The elderly are being allowed to die and 3. 56 percent of the country smokes which is deadly combined with the coronavirus.
Effected? As in you’re sick for 3-7 days and than you make a full recovery. Hmm sounds like a bad flu.
By the way this part below is the case for ANY flu or respiratory disease:
“A recent survey analysis from Italy’s Instituto Superiore di Sanità (ISS) has reported that more than 56.6% of patients who have died from Covid-19 were over 80 years old, and more than two-thirds of the patients had pre-existing chronic conditions. The most common comorbidity was hypertension, followed by ischemic heart disease and diabetes.”
China also 70% of their over 80 years are smokers. Do people really think that these sick over 80 years old just stop smoking because they tested positive?
By comparison US is at 14%.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/08/cdc-says-smoking-rates-fall-to-record-low-in-us.html
Pops like others have simply posted the comments from medicals professionals that have spent many years specializing in pandemic viruses.
Pops like several others on this board have simply posted the comments from medicals professionals whom have spent many years specializing in pandemic viruses. What's become pretty clear in regard's to our government's response is very disjointed. The left hand and the right hand don't see to be on the same page.
Now that Trump is saying July or August, the market dropped nearly 3000 points, maybe an awakening will occur. If you thought Barnett’s defense was bad last year, throw in half the country is in denial. We have it. It is bad. It is gonna get worse. A lot worse. How bad is up to us.
Here's context about "Italy not treating the elderly."
Houston Chronicle
"...[T]he admission of so many patients has overwhelmed the intensive care units of many hospitals. One doctor described the epidemic as “a tsunami” that has swept through his hospital. The articles reveal how ventilators are in desperately short supply and are now considered to be worth their weight in gold. Most chilling of all, these doctors report that because their hospitals are so overwhelmed by this influx of severely ill people they are forced to make heart-rending decisions over who should be placed inside a ventilator. The grim yet pragmatic upshot is that they provide the ventilators to those patients who are younger or who don’t have pre-existing medical conditions because they have the best chance of recovering. As somebody who is on the wrong side of 60, that revelation hit home." https://www.houstonchronicle.com/li...n-Italy-Roman-writer-details-how-15134465.php
It may be said soon that the U.S. isn't treating the elderly for the exact same reason: an overwhelmed system with too few ICUs and ventilators.
Houston Chronicle
"...[T]he admission of so many patients has overwhelmed the intensive care units of many hospitals. One doctor described the epidemic as “a tsunami” that has swept through his hospital. The articles reveal how ventilators are in desperately short supply and are now considered to be worth their weight in gold. Most chilling of all, these doctors report that because their hospitals are so overwhelmed by this influx of severely ill people they are forced to make heart-rending decisions over who should be placed inside a ventilator. The grim yet pragmatic upshot is that they provide the ventilators to those patients who are younger or who don’t have pre-existing medical conditions because they have the best chance of recovering. As somebody who is on the wrong side of 60, that revelation hit home." https://www.houstonchronicle.com/li...n-Italy-Roman-writer-details-how-15134465.php
It may be said soon that the U.S. isn't treating the elderly for the exact same reason: an overwhelmed system with too few ICUs and ventilators.
Exactly, someone just didn’t say, hey eff the old people, they had their share of pasta and red wine. They are overwhelmed. That’s what we are trying to prevent
A New York State Department of Health workgroup on "ethical and clinical guidelines for ventilator triage" proposed in 2008 the following if our healthcare system becomes overloaded:
"...[T]he clinical guidelines propose both withholding and withdrawing ventilators from patients with the highest probability of mortality to benefit patients with the highest likelihood of survival. Triage scores derive from the sepsis-related organ failure assessment system, which assigns points based on function in 6 basic medical domains. Triage may not be implemented by a facility without clear permission from public health authorities."
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f9...73.1480571074.1584451327-496051721.1584451327
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...rist/cc8e9b46d8f88bef6b5cec3acfecd798b8a5b922
"...[T]he clinical guidelines propose both withholding and withdrawing ventilators from patients with the highest probability of mortality to benefit patients with the highest likelihood of survival. Triage scores derive from the sepsis-related organ failure assessment system, which assigns points based on function in 6 basic medical domains. Triage may not be implemented by a facility without clear permission from public health authorities."
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f9...73.1480571074.1584451327-496051721.1584451327
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...rist/cc8e9b46d8f88bef6b5cec3acfecd798b8a5b922
COVID alarmists make these claims :
Every single one of the 12,000-30,000 flu deaths in the US this year has involved a person becoming critically ill before they died. Why didn’t that large number of critically ill flu patients, or the comparable number of automobile accident deaths overwhelm the system?
Crashing the economy would put millions of people on the street with no shelter and no health care. How many people would die from that? How many tens of millions of people would be killed by a worldwide depression?
Something very seriously wrong is going on here.
- COVID-19 is much more transmissible than flu
- Death rates are much higher than flu
- COVID-19 will overwhelm medical services
- Most COVID carriers are asymptomatic
Every single one of the 12,000-30,000 flu deaths in the US this year has involved a person becoming critically ill before they died. Why didn’t that large number of critically ill flu patients, or the comparable number of automobile accident deaths overwhelm the system?
Crashing the economy would put millions of people on the street with no shelter and no health care. How many people would die from that? How many tens of millions of people would be killed by a worldwide depression?
Something very seriously wrong is going on here.
I believe for a true comparison, you would need to look at similar sample sizes. The consensus is Covid 19 originated in late December 2019....three months ago. Are the flu death or car crash numbers you are quoting only for the last three months? The flu deaths worldwide have been spread out over a long period of time, dissimilar to the spike we are seeing each day with C-19.
From 9/29/19 till 3/7/20 in the US on the flu:
- CDC estimates that so far this season there have been at least 36 million flu illnesses, 370,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths from flu.
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