Game of Thrones: Season 7, Episode 6 - Beyond the Wall

[speechteach]

Agreed about the show suffering ever since it left the orbit of the books, which doesn't bode well for other shows these two are trying to make.

But one thing nobody is talking about is how no major character gets killed anymore. It's so ridiculous too, with Bronn and Jaime, then the A-Team only losing redshirts. And then Jon surviving thanks to back-to-back deus ex machinas.

I will not be satisfied if Cersei doesn't murder someone in the final episode because they thought they could actually get her on their side. If so, it would definitely play out like when Jon got stabbed after barely surviving hard home.

 

[DanC78]

Agreed about the show suffering ever since it left the orbit of the books, which doesn't bode well for other shows these two are trying to make.

But one thing nobody is talking about is how no major character gets killed anymore. It's so ridiculous too, with Bronn and Jaime, then the A-Team only losing redshirts. And then Jon surviving thanks to back-to-back deus ex machinas.

I will not be satisfied if Cersei doesn't murder someone in the final episode because they thought they could actually get her on their side. If so, it would definitely play out like when Jon got stabbed after barely surviving hard home.

I have a feeling this going to change. All the main characters at this point play a significant role for the most part. I think once next season gets rolling they will start falling off until there is one.

 

[LesClaypool]

I have a feeling this going to change. All the main characters at this point play a significant role for the most part. I think once next season gets rolling they will start falling off until there is one.

Deaths that are clearly coming, possibly not until next year though (I think - I don't have any inside info):

-Ser Jorah Mormount
-Littlefinger or Arya...possibly both
-The Hound or The Mountain...possibly both
-Jamie or Cersei...possibly both
-At least one more dragon
-Night King

Not sure about:

-Tormund (I still think his days are numbered)
-Brienne of Tarth
-Bran Stark

I think Jon, Dany, and Tyrion make it to the end though.

But regarding not killing major characters anymore...The Sand Snakes, Ileria Sand, and Lady Olenna were all just killed. As was Randall Tarly. Granted maybe not huge names (Olenna was, IMO) but significant characters in the story for sure.

But at the end of last season, Marjorie Tyrell, Lloris Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Kevin Lannister, Lancel Lannister, The High Sparrow, Grand Maester Pycell, and Tommen Baratheon/Lannister were all killed in the same episode..many in the same scene. Many of those were huge names. Has everyone forgotten that already?

 

[fsugrad06]

Deaths that are clearly coming, possibly not until next year though (I think - I don't have any inside info):

-Ser Jorah Mormount
-Littlefinger or Arya...possibly both
-The Hound or The Mountain...possibly both
-Jamie or Cersei...possibly both
-At least one more dragon
-Night King

Not sure about:

-Tormund (I still think his days are numbered)
-Brienne of Tarth
-Bran Stark

I think Jon, Dany, and Tyrion make it to the end though.

But regarding not killing major characters anymore...The Sand Snakes, Ileria Sand, and Lady Olenna were all just killed. As was Randall Tarly. Granted maybe not huge names (Olenna was, IMO) but significant characters in the story for sure.

But at the end of last season, Marjorie Tyrell, Lloris Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Kevin Lannister, Lancel Lannister, The High Sparrow, Grand Maester Pycell, and Tommen Baratheon/Lannister were all killed in the same episode..many in the same scene. Many of those were huge names. Has everyone forgotten that already?

We haven't seen the one Sand Snake dead yet (we know she will die) and her mother hasn't been killed either (that has been shown). I'd agree with most of who you said:
Definite:
Jorah: dies saving Dany
Littlefinger: killed by Arya (they are making this painfully obvious and I think happens next week)
Both Cleganes, likely killing each other
Cersei: by Jaime
Yara or Theon and Euron: one of the siblings dies while killing the Uncle and the other is ruler of the Iron Islands
Night King because duh, he ain't winning

Almost everyone else is a maybe, but how I think it could end:
Gendry and Arya together, uniting the houses as Robert and Ned had hoped for back in Season 1, and they rule the Stormlands
Sansa is Lady of Winterfell
Bran is the 3-eyed Raven and apparently that role has always been important so he is safe because they have no time to introduce a successor
Tyrion is Lord of Casterly Rock
Bronn gets Highgarden because he's switching sides again, and someone gets that place
Tormund and Brienne make giant babies and take command of the Night's Watch just because we all want that!
Jon gets the throne. Dany dies giving him an heir. The prophecy for her was that she would be reunited with Khal Drogo when she gives birth again and her visions at the end of season 2 in the house of the undead (or was it undying) were of the future and not past. She has gone to Dragonstone, been to the wall, and her dragons will soon burn Kings Landing. The last part was being reunited with Drago and their son, and that will be the afterlife.

Note: I reserve all rights to change this opinion as soon as next week when the writers decide to go a completely different direction.

 

[Zeek99]

We haven't seen the one Sand Snake dead yet (we know she will die) and her mother hasn't been killed either (that has been shown). I'd agree with most of who you said:
Definite:
Jorah: dies saving Dany
Littlefinger: killed by Arya (they are making this painfully obvious and I think happens next week)
Both Cleganes, likely killing each other
Cersei: by Jaime
Yara or Theon and Euron: one of the siblings dies while killing the Uncle and the other is ruler of the Iron Islands
Night King because duh, he ain't winning

Almost everyone else is a maybe, but how I think it could end:
Gendry and Arya together, uniting the houses as Robert and Ned had hoped for back in Season 1, and they rule the Stormlands
Sansa is Lady of Winterfell
Bran is the 3-eyed Raven and apparently that role has always been important so he is safe because they have no time to introduce a successor
Tyrion is Lord of Casterly Rock
Bronn gets Highgarden because he's switching sides again, and someone gets that place
Tormund and Brienne make giant babies and take command of the Night's Watch just because we all want that!
Jon gets the throne. Dany dies giving him an heir. The prophecy for her was that she would be reunited with Khal Drogo when she gives birth again and her visions at the end of season 2 in the house of the undead (or was it undying) were of the future and not past. She has gone to Dragonstone, been to the wall, and her dragons will soon burn Kings Landing. The last part was being reunited with Drago and their son, and that will be the afterlife.

Note: I reserve all rights to change this opinion as soon as next week when the writers decide to go a completely different direction.

That's how I see it going down, if they want to put a bow on everything. Hopefully, we'll get something more inventive from the writers.

 

[nynole1]

As has been said multiple times already, predictability is killing this show. It felt like the entire battle between wights and Snow/Dany was a waste because you just kept waiting to see how Night King would kill and secure a dragon. Even turning the dragon was anticlimactic. Was there ever really any drama with any of that?
Also, was awfully convenient that when Jon killed the leader of that scouting party, the rest died.... except for one!
I remember so much discussion in the first season about how they never showed the actual battles going down. Now how many would trade those days for what was also better story telling? I know I would.
This show is beautiful to watch, but it's quickly turning into a Michael Bay production.

 

[FSUSarah]

It does feel shallow and forced and rushed. Most of what I'm feeling has already been said.
Right now I'm most upset about the Arya/ Sansa scenes. The way it's being showed makes it seem like LIttlefinger's plan is working. If he succeeds in splitting up the Stark's than all of their story arcs were for nothing.

Was the Raven from Cersei specifically for Sansa? I'm about to re watch the episode because that whole scene didn't make sense. Sansa sending Brienne was was very stupid.

Jon not communicating with Winterfell and Sansa is very stupid.

I've been saying this for years. I want the Night King to win and all of Westeros to be iced over. No one would believe except for Jon, and now it'll be too late.

 

[DanC78]

Here is another one, it may have been said already. But Dany flies over on her dragon in no time, but then they take the long boat ride back...lol.

 

[Zeek99]

Here is another one, it may have been said already. But Dany flies over on her dragon in no time, but then they take the long boat ride back...lol.

Probably chose to ride the Stark's boat back to Dragonstone so that she could be with Jon while he is recovering.

 

[fsUTampa]

As has been said multiple times already, predictability is killing this show. It felt like the entire battle between wights and Snow/Dany was a waste because you just kept waiting to see how Night King would kill and secure a dragon. Even turning the dragon was anticlimactic. Was there ever really any drama with any of that?

I think part of the anti-climatic part of that episode was the enormous amount of leaks and spoilers (both during the week leading up as well as pre-season). Screw all of those people with absolutely no impulse control messing it up for everyone else.

 

[noleclone2]

Cracks me up reading the whining about nobody dying now when last several years all I read was people complaining how they kill everyone.

 

[kc78]

eh, in the end it will turn out that this is all just purgatory and all characters live out their afterlife here playing this huge game of Thrones until they're either redeemed and get to go live with "The Lord of Light", resurrected, or become a wight and are cast off forever.

 

[nynole1]

I think part of the anti-climatic part of that episode was the enormous amount of leaks and spoilers (both during the week leading up as well as pre-season). Screw all of those people with absolutely no impulse control messing it up for everyone else.

Not on my end. I never read anything concerning shows I watch and I don't even watch previews for next week's episode. I have no idea why people do that, completely ruins the experience for me.

 

[Nole Lou]

Cracks me up reading the whining about nobody dying now when last several years all I read was people complaining how they kill everyone.

I don't think the point is that nobody is dying. Nobody is complaining that say, Sam hasn't died choking on a chicken bone. It's that they're now continuously putting some of these characters now in near death and certain death situations and saving them implausibly.

That is standard TV/movie cliche, and something that GOT has never done very much of. When people were put in battles and deadly situations, there were actual consequences.

Now it's like 1960s Batman with the "oh, he's in danger" teases. It's fine if they don't want to kill off a character...then don't keep putting them in fake danger like James Bond or something. The fact that they're even protecting popular but inessential characters like Tormund, Bronn, Grey Worm, Jorah etc.

 

[kc78]

I don't think the point is that nobody is dying. Nobody is complaining that say, Sam hasn't died choking on a chicken bone. It's that they're now continuously putting some of these characters now in near death and certain death situations and saving them implausibly.

That is standard TV/movie cliche, and something that GOT has never done very much of. When people were put in battles and deadly situations, there were actual consequences.

Now it's like 1960s Batman with the "oh, he's in danger" teases. It's fine if they don't want to kill off a character...then don't keep putting them in fake danger like James Bond or something. The fact that they're even protecting popular but inessential characters like Tormund, Bronn, Grey Worm, Jorah etc.

Agreed, Martin has no issues killing off a character if it makes sense to kill them and he has no real interest in keeping characters just because he likes them (Except for Tyrion, he's stated that he's by far his favorite character to write so I think he's likely safe along with whomever needs to be standing at the end). But yes, for the most part, when characters wound up in dangerous places they were either killed or left seriously wounded (As Tyrion is in the book. It's far more than that small scar in the book.)

The whole Jamie falling into the water thing was one area. At the very least Bronn should have been toast saving Jamie but allowing for time for Jamie to get away. That both of them came out of what should have been death was a bit annoying as was the fight against the Night King. We should have lost at least one other unexpected character there. The Hound probably should have gone out fighting till the end giving everyone else the time to escape, but they needed something to be a turning point to bring Dany and Jon together, so that was their answer.

 

[nynole1]

Send a Raven = making a cell phone call in this episode.

 

[FSUSarah]

They should have had Ravens with them, like Jon learned to do in the Nights Watch. Instead of relying on someone who has never seen snow, to make back in a blizzard to send for help.

 

[LesClaypool]

So, since the Night King touched Viserion, he is now a dragon white walker...not a wight. This should make him indestructible to fire, meaning the other two dragons won't be able to stop him. By the same token, he will be susceptible to Dragonglass and Valeryan steel...meaning any man (wielding such weapons) can. Interesting.

Has that already registered with everyone? I don't know why but that hadn't registered w/me until now.

 

[ericram]

how were they able to kill so many walkers again? I didn't see them using any dragonglass.

 

[speechteach]

Cracks me up reading the whining about nobody dying now when last several years all I read was people complaining how they kill everyone.

Not from me. I rarely post in these threads. And I'm talking about people with emotional importance. Hodor was the last person that people were emotionally invested in. Since then, every character of emotional importance has experienced multiple ridiculous escapes from death. I'm fine with not killing anyone for a whole season, but Martin built a story where you were always worried about someone not surviving, or getting maimed, or something. The unbelievable escapes from death this season have completely ruined that feeling. Not every one of these characters is important for the final season. I know this because Martin has moved on from several of their stories in the books. The creators know that these are fan favorites and want to milk that. Regardless, as others have said, there will probably be a few more deaths before the end. To be honest, if Cersei doesn't screw them for their stupidity in trusting her in the finale, I will be disappointed.

It's funny though, because so many of the actors called this season particularly brutal, and it hasn't felt like that at all, outside of the Lannister army cooking in their armor.

 

[speechteach]

I don't think the point is that nobody is dying. Nobody is complaining that say, Sam hasn't died choking on a chicken bone. It's that they're now continuously putting some of these characters now in near death and certain death situations and saving them implausibly.

That is standard TV/movie cliche, and something that GOT has never done very much of. When people were put in battles and deadly situations, there were actual consequences.

Now it's like 1960s Batman with the "oh, he's in danger" teases. It's fine if they don't want to kill off a character...then don't keep putting them in fake danger like James Bond or something. The fact that they're even protecting popular but inessential characters like Tormund, Bronn, Grey Worm, Jorah etc.

I wish I hadn't just written out my long winded response. This nailed it.

 

[speechteach]

Agreed, Martin has no issues killing off a character if it makes sense to kill them and he has no real interest in keeping characters just because he likes them (Except for Tyrion, he's stated that he's by far his favorite character to write so I think he's likely safe along with whomever needs to be standing at the end). But yes, for the most part, when characters wound up in dangerous places they were either killed or left seriously wounded (As Tyrion is in the book. It's far more than that small scar in the book.)

The whole Jamie falling into the water thing was one area. At the very least Bronn should have been toast saving Jamie but allowing for time for Jamie to get away. That both of them came out of what should have been death was a bit annoying as was the fight against the Night King. We should have lost at least one other unexpected character there. The Hound probably should have gone out fighting till the end giving everyone else the time to escape, but they needed something to be a turning point to bring Dany and Jon together, so that was their answer.

The whole Jaime and Bronn scene started it for me, but I figured they earned enough good will, with all that came before. But then they did the scenes beyond the wall, where multiple guys died that you didn't even know were part of the group until they died. And Thoros, a guy that might have fifteen minutes of footage at most all series, with half of that in this episode. Then Jorah nearly falls off the dragon? They didn't need to have that scene.

 

[LesClaypool]

how were they able to kill so many walkers again? I didn't see them using any dragonglass.

Only one walker was killed...by Jon's Valeryan steel sword, Longclaw.

The wights were killed mainly by dragon fire and "drowning."

Wights apparently can be "killed" by more traditional means though too...a la a decapitation by a traditional sword, or getting sawn in half by a swing of a sword. It's just way more labor intensive.

 

[ericram]

Only one walker was killed...by Jon's Valeryan steel sword, Longclaw.

The wights were killed mainly by dragon fire and "drowning."

Wights apparently can be "killed" by more traditional means though too...a la a decapitation by a traditional sword, or getting sawn in half by a swing of a sword. It's just way more labor intensive.

apparently is the correct used for context here. Thanks.

 

[ericram]

Another question, the faces that Sansa pulled from Arya's bag, did any of them look familar? Was one of them the older man that Littlefinger was talking to last episode?

 

[DanC78]

It started with me when Reek made it back on the boat alive, then w

Another question, the faces that Sansa pulled from Arya's bag, did any of them look familar? Was one of them the older man that Littlefinger was talking to last episode?

Did anyone notice if she had the bag in the woods with Ed Shearin?

Do you think there is a chance she comes back as Ed Shearin before the season ends. She said she can take face AND voice.....think about it.....just sayin!

 

[Nole Lou]

Agreed, Martin has no issues killing off a character if it makes sense to kill them and he has no real interest in keeping characters just because he likes them (Except for Tyrion, he's stated that he's by far his favorite character to write so I think he's likely safe along with whomever needs to be standing at the end). But yes, for the most part, when characters wound up in dangerous places they were either killed or left seriously wounded (As Tyrion is in the book. It's far more than that small scar in the book.)

The whole Jamie falling into the water thing was one area. At the very least Bronn should have been toast saving Jamie but allowing for time for Jamie to get away. That both of them came out of what should have been death was a bit annoying as was the fight against the Night King. We should have lost at least one other unexpected character there. The Hound probably should have gone out fighting till the end giving everyone else the time to escape, but they needed something to be a turning point to bring Dany and Jon together, so that was their answer.

Yeah, it's pretty easy...if you don't want them killed, don't put them in position to be killed. They didn't have to kill Jaimie...but then they shouldn't have had him do that stupid thing.

They've really reverted to standard cheesy/lazy network TV storytelling. And they're pretty much admitting it...and they don't really care because people will watch it anyway.

http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-season-7-timeline-beyond-the-wall/2/

 

[fsugrad06]

how were they able to kill so many walkers again? I didn't see them using any dragonglass.

As said, they were mainly killing Wights. White Walkers are killed with Valyrian steel or dragonglass. To this point, Jon had Longclaw which is Valyrian and Jorah had a dragonglass dagger (another in the group may have had a dagger as well but I don't recall).

White Walkers v Wights:
Wights are any corpse reanimated by a White Walker, whether human or animal. The dragon is a Wight, not a White Walker. White Walkers are a "race" so to speak that were created long ago by the Children of the Forest. They differ from the Wights as they are not, essentially, zombies. The Night King has turned living infants (from Caster's Keep) in White Walkers, but we have not seen him do that to an adult. White Walkers can be killed by dragonglass and Valyrian steel. Wights are killed by fire or complete dismemberment of the body, and possibly dragonglass.
Also, as we learned this past week, when a White Walker is killed, so are all the Wights that he resurrected.

 

[LesClaypool]

As said, they were mainly killing Wights. White Walkers are killed with Valyrian steel or dragonglass. To this point, Jon had Longclaw which is Valyrian and Jorah had a dragonglass dagger (another in the group may have had a dagger as well but I don't recall).

White Walkers v Wights:
Wights are any corpse reanimated by a White Walker, whether human or animal. The dragon is a Wight, not a White Walker. White Walkers are a "race" so to speak that were created long ago by the Children of the Forest. They differ from the Wights as they are not, essentially, zombies. The Night King has turned living infants (from Caster's Keep) in White Walkers, but we have not seen him do that to an adult. White Walkers can be killed by dragonglass and Valyrian steel. Wights are killed by fire or complete dismemberment of the body, and possibly dragonglass.
Also, as we learned this past week, when a White Walker is killed, so are all the Wights that he resurrected.

The dragon is a white walker (or at least something more special/powerful than a wight) b/c he was touched by the Night King...not raised up in the same manner that reanimated corpses are.

 

[Nole Lou]

Here's the director being even more of a dick. I hate this attitude...and it comes up all the time in fantasy/superhero type stuff, and it's a total cop out for lazy, substandard writing.

The creators created the universe and it's rules. When they break them, it's on them. If they had Bran "see" the situation, and somehow transmit that to Dragonstone, nobody would be complaining, because that's within the rules they created. Expecting creators to have their material make sense IN THE UNIVERSE THEY CREATED is not being nitpicky. Asking them not to take lazy shortcuts is not being pedantic. There are probably a dozen ways they could have made that work within the universe, and they didn't bother, because it's going to be watched either way.

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

“It’s funny...I did see one review where he just could not get past the airspeed velocity of a raven. If the show was struggling, if it wasn’t finding an audience, I would be up in arms about that and trying to press back, but it actually just made me laugh,” says Taylor.

“You’ve got a [dragon] that’s bigger than a [Boeing] 747 [plane] with seven people riding on its back, and you’re worried about the speed of a raven being believable. OK, obviously, we’re not doing our jobs correctly for you, but it seems to be working for a lot of other people.”

Taylor adds: “I know some people...it’s funny, because they’re just torturing themselves. They want to like the show.... The guy I was reading, he obviously got a protractor out and a ruler to measure how fast a raven would get from here to there. But hopefully that didn’t bog down too many people.”

 

[TennNole17]

All the A team had dragon glass weapons, fire weapons, or valerian steel.

Jorah has two knife/dagger things, Tormund has his butcher cleaver thing with dragon glass, even the hound throws down his mallet and resorts to dragon glass

That's also how they killed the zombie bear

 

[fsugrad06]

The dragon is a white walker (or at least something more special/powerful than a wight) b/c he was touched by the Night King...not raised up in the same manner that reanimated corpses are.

Everything I have read is that Viserion is a Wight. Once an animal or human is reanimated, it is a Wight. The blue eyes are irrelevant because Wights and White Walkers have blue eyes.

 

[LesClaypool]

Everything I have read is that Viserion is a Wight. Once an animal or human is reanimated, it is a Wight. The blue eyes are irrelevant because Wights and White Walkers have blue eyes.

Guess we'll see. Fire kills wights. So a blast from Drogon should be all it takes.

 

[speechteach]

Here's the director being even more of a dick. I hate this attitude...and it comes up all the time in fantasy/superhero type stuff, and it's a total cop out for lazy, substandard writing.

The creators created the universe and it's rules. When they break them, it's on them. If they had Bran "see" the situation, and somehow transmit that to Dragonstone, nobody would be complaining, because that's within the rules they created. Expecting creators to have their material make sense IN THE UNIVERSE THEY CREATED is not being nitpicky. Asking them not to take lazy shortcuts is not being pedantic. There are probably a dozen ways they could have made that work within the universe, and they didn't bother, because it's going to be watched either way.

http://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-season-7-pace-criticism-director-alan-taylor-653038

“It’s funny...I did see one review where he just could not get past the airspeed velocity of a raven. If the show was struggling, if it wasn’t finding an audience, I would be up in arms about that and trying to press back, but it actually just made me laugh,” says Taylor.

“You’ve got a [dragon] that’s bigger than a [Boeing] 747 [plane] with seven people riding on its back, and you’re worried about the speed of a raven being believable. OK, obviously, we’re not doing our jobs correctly for you, but it seems to be working for a lot of other people.”

Taylor adds: “I know some people...it’s funny, because they’re just torturing themselves. They want to like the show.... The guy I was reading, he obviously got a protractor out and a ruler to measure how fast a raven would get from here to there. But hopefully that didn’t bog down too many people.”

Jeez, I actually liked Taylor as a director too. But the guy needs to realize that people being upset is what causes a show to plummet in ratings faster than a dragon impaled with a javelin. He probably realizes that they are in the final stretch, so it pretty much doesn't matter at this point...people will see it through.

I don't spend much time with interviews and such, but it is pretty clear that Martin is quietly distanced himself from the show in recent years, and doesn't write episodes anymore (obviously he has some books to finish). But you have to wonder what his true feelings are. He used to write a lot about the show in the past, but has since gone completely silent. I just googled a recent interview where he says he doesn't even watch the show. That is quite a turn from a couple years ago. Regardless, he has always been incredibly realistic when it comes to travel time for characters (which has probably upset a lot of people, and likely lengthened the books quite a bit). You saw the series somewhat beholden to that until this season. Oh well, none of this gives me a lot of faith in future shows set in universes that these guys actually create on their own, like Confederate.

 

[mnole03]

Jeez, I actually liked Taylor as a director too. But the guy needs to realize that people being upset is what causes a show to plummet in ratings faster than a dragon impaled with a javelin. He probably realizes that they are in the final stretch, so it pretty much doesn't matter at this point...people will see it through.

I don't spend much time with interviews and such, but it is pretty clear that Martin is quietly distanced himself from the show in recent years, and doesn't write episodes anymore (obviously he has some books to finish). But you have to wonder what his true feelings are. He used to write a lot about the show in the past, but has since gone completely silent. I just googled a recent interview where he says he doesn't even watch the show. That is quite a turn from a couple years ago. Regardless, he has always been incredibly realistic when it comes to travel time for characters (which has probably upset a lot of people, and likely lengthened the books quite a bit). You saw the series somewhat beholden to that until this season. Oh well, none of this gives me a lot of faith in future shows set in universes that these guys actually create on their own, like Confederate.

Martin had no problem with gold quickly melting in a kitchen fire.

 

[kc78]

Jeez, I actually liked Taylor as a director too. But the guy needs to realize that people being upset is what causes a show to plummet in ratings faster than a dragon impaled with a javelin. He probably realizes that they are in the final stretch, so it pretty much doesn't matter at this point...people will see it through.

I don't spend much time with interviews and such, but it is pretty clear that Martin is quietly distanced himself from the show in recent years, and doesn't write episodes anymore (obviously he has some books to finish). But you have to wonder what his true feelings are. He used to write a lot about the show in the past, but has since gone completely silent. I just googled a recent interview where he says he doesn't even watch the show. That is quite a turn from a couple years ago. Regardless, he has always been incredibly realistic when it comes to travel time for characters (which has probably upset a lot of people, and likely lengthened the books quite a bit). You saw the series somewhat beholden to that until this season. Oh well, none of this gives me a lot of faith in future shows set in universes that these guys actually create on their own, like Confederate.

Martin has stated at one point or another that he doesn't like to watch the show now that it's leaving behind his material because he doesn't want to be overly influenced by it. He still plans to finish his books and he wants his story to remain his story and the tv show to be a separate universe. They'll both end up at the same place, but how they get there may be completely different.

 

[FSUSarah]

I just want Winds of Winter released. I love the show, but I want to jump back into GRRM's words.

 

[FSUTribe76]

I just want Winds of Winter released. I love the show, but I want to jump back into GRRM's words.

Yep! But he's never going to finish the series before he croaks. He just recently made up some new reason not to finish WoW.

 

[mnole03]

Yep! But he's never going to finish the series before he croaks. He just recently made up some new reason not to finish WoW.

It seems to be the trend in the fantasy space. First Discworld, then Song of Ice and Fire, and now the King Killer series.

 

[FSUTribe76]

It seems to be the trend in the fantasy space. First Discworld, then Song of Ice and Fire, and now the King Killer series.

The Jordan's Wheel of Time is maybe the best example.