Read the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798 - his post is pretty much in line with the Framer's view on free speech.
National Anthem & The NFL
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Read the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798 - his post is pretty much in line with the Framer's view on free speech.
"On-field events recognizing military service members — including ceremonial first pitches, honor guards and Jumbotron tributes — have become common at professional sports venues over the past several years.
Many in the stands assume the team or league puts on the tributes, but often it has been the Department of Defense, meaning tax dollars were used to foot the bill.
A report released Wednesday criticized the Department of Defense for spending millions in sports marketing contracts and called to task the professional sports teams that took the money, saying they were engaged in “paid patriotism.”
Prepared by U.S. Sens. John McCain and Jeff Flake, both Arizona Republicans, the report found that all military branches reported spending $53 million on marketing and advertising contracts with professional sports organizations between 2012 and 2015. More than $10 million of that went to the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA and Major League Soccer."
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/na...ary-tributes-report-says/stories/201511060140
"It’s a tribute to the NFL’s ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn’t even standard practice."
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/nfl-teams-being-field-anthem-relatively-new-practice
Many in the stands assume the team or league puts on the tributes, but often it has been the Department of Defense, meaning tax dollars were used to foot the bill.
A report released Wednesday criticized the Department of Defense for spending millions in sports marketing contracts and called to task the professional sports teams that took the money, saying they were engaged in “paid patriotism.”
Prepared by U.S. Sens. John McCain and Jeff Flake, both Arizona Republicans, the report found that all military branches reported spending $53 million on marketing and advertising contracts with professional sports organizations between 2012 and 2015. More than $10 million of that went to the NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA and Major League Soccer."
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/na...ary-tributes-report-says/stories/201511060140
"It’s a tribute to the NFL’s ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn’t even standard practice."
http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/nfl-teams-being-field-anthem-relatively-new-practice
I'd say folks who begrudge Kap or any of the other folks silently protesting are being hypersensitive. This is the land of the free.
If some guy(s) want to take a seat during the anthem to make a point, let them, that is in fact the beauty of this wonderful yet still imperfect country - each of us is free (if not responsible) for doing what we can to help make this a more perfect union.
That he's chosen a way to get his message out without attention mongering or disturbing the peace is a credit to his thoughtfulness. That he's followed up his kneeling protest with real action in the community in the form of time and money spent on good causes is even more of a testament to his sincerity in this.
As I said at the beginning, it's un-American to begrudge someone who's peacefully protesting a wrong in society. To get upset about it is hypersensitive and, in this case, most likely an overcompensation for some other subconscious issue - most likely knowing the cause has merit but not wanting to acknowledge or discuss it and instead attacking the method of the protest as a distraction from the real discussion that ought to be had.
All that said, I stand - but respect those who don't.
If some guy(s) want to take a seat during the anthem to make a point, let them, that is in fact the beauty of this wonderful yet still imperfect country - each of us is free (if not responsible) for doing what we can to help make this a more perfect union.
That he's chosen a way to get his message out without attention mongering or disturbing the peace is a credit to his thoughtfulness. That he's followed up his kneeling protest with real action in the community in the form of time and money spent on good causes is even more of a testament to his sincerity in this.
As I said at the beginning, it's un-American to begrudge someone who's peacefully protesting a wrong in society. To get upset about it is hypersensitive and, in this case, most likely an overcompensation for some other subconscious issue - most likely knowing the cause has merit but not wanting to acknowledge or discuss it and instead attacking the method of the protest as a distraction from the real discussion that ought to be had.
All that said, I stand - but respect those who don't.
I wonder why the tradition of playing the Anthem before ballgames? And is there protocol for God Bless America?
I'm reminded of this from American President:
- America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, 'You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.' You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.
It's because life was absolutely crappy back in the 19-teens.
"World War I wasn't the only issue weighing heavily on fans. On Sept. 4, the day before the first game, a bomb ripped through the Chicago Federal Building, killing four people and injuring 30. The Industrial Workers of the World were thought to be behind the attack, a retaliation for the conviction of several IWW members on federal sedition charges in the court of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis. (Two years later, Landis was appointed commissioner of baseball, a position he held until 1944.) Domestic terrorism didn't exactly generate interest in a lighthearted day at the ball game. For the opener at Comiskey, newspapers optimistically estimated that a sellout crowd would drop anywhere from 50 cents for a bleacher ticket to $3 for a box seat. When only 19,000 and change showed, a Chicago Herald-Examiner headline proclaimed, "Scalpers Are Making No Money."
Although the Cubs festooned the park in as much red, white and blue as possible, the glum crowd in the stands for Game 1 remained nearly silent through most of Ruth's 1-0 shutout victory over Chicago's Hippo Vaughn. Not even the Cubs Claws, the forerunners to Wrigley's Bleacher Bums, could gin up enthusiasm. "For a baseball game in a world's Championship series," the Chicago Tribune wrote, "yesterday's combat between the Cubs and Red Sox was perhaps the quietest on record.""
http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine
How many people yelling and crying about not standing during the anthem are the same ones pushing there way to their seats, standing in line for diet coke and popcorn, or taking a leak in the stadium's restroom while the anthem is playing?
Kap's a douche, but I have no problem with it. I'll always stand with hand over heart, but dont care if someone else doesnt. There's more important things to worry about than what some privelaged elite does on a sideline of a game.
Kap's a douche, but I have no problem with it. I'll always stand with hand over heart, but dont care if someone else doesnt. There's more important things to worry about than what some privelaged elite does on a sideline of a game.
I'd prefer CK would stand out of respect if for no other reasons. I'm not upset that he and others don't stand up. CK's issue is he's actually taken it much further than simply not standing for the anthem. In the process, he's pissed off a lot of fans. Owners don't want to alienate half their fan base. Owners have to weigh the potential revenue lost versus how good CK is and the revenue he might generate.
I got no issue with anyone wanting to protest as long as it isn't breaking the law, violent, hateful or a blocking my way to or from work. I don't have an issue with his protest of the anthem. I stand and take my hat off whenever I hear it because it means something to me, but I don't care if someone else chooses not to. Similar to standing to shake someone's hand, taking my hat off indoors, holding doors, walking on the streetside of a sidewalk when with someone, etc. Its just how I was raised and it means something to me. Others can behave how they want and it doesn't bother me, but they are going to have to deal with the consequences of their actions from the people they come in contact with. If you're going to be stupid then you got to be tough. My only problem is with his thought process. If he wanted to change things/something then he is going about it the wrong way. He did get attention, but its more for the act than why he was doing it in the first place. I like the approach of holding town hall meetings that other athletes/organizations have done to start a dialog with the community to invoke change.
I thought that he started it originally because he perceived a racial problem in America--primarily African-Americans being killed by policy officers--and his employer is forcing him to stand up and honor a song that, again in his opinion, overtly supported the killing of slaves.
"No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Not sure. Which might be part of the issue, people are reacting to what he was doing and don't know why he was doing it. I remember hearing him say that he started it because of the violence from police, but not sure about the rest.
I didn't care one way or the other because its his right, I just thought it was an ineffective way to help the cause he was trying to support.
He's a QB in the NFL with millions of social media followers and can do things(in/around San Francisco) that would've helped his image and the cause like host police/town hall meetings, or a get together where cops play catch with inner city teens, all of this in front of numerous cameras. But that would've involved stepping up instead of kneeling down.
He's a QB in the NFL with millions of social media followers and can do things(in/around San Francisco) that would've helped his image and the cause like host police/town hall meetings, or a get together where cops play catch with inner city teens, all of this in front of numerous cameras. But that would've involved stepping up instead of kneeling down.
62Nole
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I agree. I am a Falcon fan but the stance Jerry Jones took is his right just like the players that kneel have that right. It would be wrong IMO to fire a coach or player if they did not know before hand that they butts would be handed to them.
as i mentioned he's extremely involved in the community, both in terms of his money and time.
kneeling during games stirred up a conversation he (and I) believe needed to be had. these conversations about policing and discrimination aren't comfortable, but that doesn't mean they're not necessary.
he did it peacefully, quietly, off to the side, and if people still deem that an inappropriate celebration, that's really on their hypersensitivity and overcompensation for something else.
Great comments for the most part. How do folks feel about him doing this at his jobsite. Kap is employed by the 49ers and the NFL, so by doing this he is effecting their business. Do they have the right to say stand or be fired, make him stay in the locker room till the National Anthem is over? As far as whether he stands or not from a personal stand point; I just don't care, although I would prefer everyone stand. However if I employed him I have the right to tell him what to do when he is representing my company. No different than if I have a landscaping company and tell employees they must wear certain clothing, not smoke on the job or whatever. Thoughts???
Yes I've seen his volunteering and financial donation stories around the time this all started. Like you said it stirred things up whereas I felt he already had a platform to bring attention to this subject without making things more difficult for his teammates and staff.
Yes they have the right (I think), however to fire the guy based on this would risk alienating some fans as well, so there's no easy answer for them. Kap did the NFL a favor by not playing so great (though most of that was actually on the other 52 clowns on the Niners) last season and then opting out of his contract.
It should be noted that sports league players are different regular employees in offices. Players frequently use their platform to elevate issues of national and social importance, frequently health based charities but often things to do with the military, schools, and the like. Rarely could you use your platform in a professional office setting to trumpet other causes, no matter how wholesome. It's part of why sports matter in the world.
Thus sports leagues have become a platform for elevating causes (just as film and music, which were borne of the need to speak out and shed light into unknown corners).
But yea, had he stayed on the Niners, they probably could have waived him without legal recourse for wrongful termination - would be nice to see the NFLPA build in a clause during the next CBA negotiation to protect the players' right to engage in social causes of this sort.
In this situation it is up to the NFL to allow or disallow it, as he is an employee. The NFL has not disallowed it, nor has any owner that has had a player do it. The NFL controls players uniforms and brand etc. So they could absolutely do a few things if they believe this will hurt their brand. Either play the National Anthem while the players are still in the locker room, or start doling out fines/suspensions for not standing during the anthem if the players are physically able to stand.
To me them not taking a stance is the belief it is not hurting their brand and part of it is not wanting to be branded racist for doing something about it. As if you stand on one side, you get branded as a racist and if you are on the other side you are Anti-American/Anti-Military. And this is why discussions usually offer no productive discussion. People have to label/name call to try to discredit someone else's viewpoint.
It will be interesting to see what if anything gets done by the NFL should their ratings and attendance and profits to start dropping and they see it as a result of this.
I would also like to see some of these players take their protest in another form and since the NFL requires them to do interviews etc. do like Marshawn Lynch used to do, but instead of saying I am just here so I don't get fined. Start just disregarding the question and educating on facts of whatever it is that supports their cause.
To me them not taking a stance is the belief it is not hurting their brand and part of it is not wanting to be branded racist for doing something about it. As if you stand on one side, you get branded as a racist and if you are on the other side you are Anti-American/Anti-Military. And this is why discussions usually offer no productive discussion. People have to label/name call to try to discredit someone else's viewpoint.
It will be interesting to see what if anything gets done by the NFL should their ratings and attendance and profits to start dropping and they see it as a result of this.
I would also like to see some of these players take their protest in another form and since the NFL requires them to do interviews etc. do like Marshawn Lynch used to do, but instead of saying I am just here so I don't get fined. Start just disregarding the question and educating on facts of whatever it is that supports their cause.
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The controversy is stupid. People do all sorts of stupid things during the anthem and no one cares. Millions break the flag code every day by wearing shirts made to look like the flag, no one cares. One brown dude sits on the sidelines and suddenly it's treason. GMAFB. People don't like their sports players to be anything but "thankful". They're making a lot of money (forget that they're destroying their bodies for it) so they should just smile and run around for us. Act "ungrateful" and america will kick you under the bus. The graph tells the truth, and it's months out of date.
I remember on last year's Hard Knocks, Coach Fisher told the players they will stand on the sideline, helmet under your left arm, and right hand over your heart during the Nat. Anthem.
In retrospect, perhaps he should have focused on the more important aspects of football.
That is an important aspect for them to make money at the next level in football. A big part of the reason Kap isn't signed is because there are absolutely several teams who want no part of them because of what he did and claims he will continue to do. If not for his form of protest and the backlash he received, I truly believe he would have been picked up on a roster by now and probably be competing for the starting job. He is better and more accomplished than many players on other team's rosters now.
Fisher's Rams were 4-9 when he was fired last season. He also still doesn't have a job. Had he focused on the right things (you know, offense, defense...) maybe he'd still be employed
Lol. I guess I missed when Jimbo had a losing season. The other Fisher did get a 2nd chance after his stint with the Titans, whereas had he sat during the National Anthem, he probably would not have.
Do you really think Kap is not being harmed on employment opportunities in the NFL because of his protest and that it is solely based on his talent and ability? I am not asking if you think owners are right or wrong for this merely asking if you think some owners refuse and/or are hesitant to hire him because of his protest method.
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Now I'm confused! Are we talking Jeff or Jimbo? I saw Hard KNocks and thought it was the Rams' coach Jeff Fisher, who's tied for the most losses all time, and was fired last year. I'm not sure (without looking it up) if Jimbo's ever had a losing season anywhere.
Of course Kaep being unemployed is because of his protests. There are waaaaaaaaay worse QBs on NFL rosters right now. But he's not worth the PR hassle - they've got to spend that time and effort on defending (alleged) rapists, woman-beaters, drug abusers, etc. Funny enough, most NFL fans would much rather see the violent criminals on their favorite team than Kaep who did something completely legal and within his rights.
Part of what's also hurting Kaep is that he went Vegan and lost like 20 pounds. He used to be fairly muscular, but now he's apparently built more like RG3, which can cause concerns that he'll be more fragile, less mobile, etc. These concerns might be tolerable risks under other circumstances, but can provide an easy out to justify not signing him.
I remember this report and honestly this bothers me more than the National Anthem stuff. The fact that the NFL took money and that DOD paid money for all that stuff really ticks me off. Sure it is a pittance in the overall DOD budget but why spend it. If the NFL wants to show support for the military they should just do it and if the DOD wants to us the NFL for marketing it sounds like a waste of money. Reminds me of the 100 plus million the Army spent on an advertising campaign for what were terrible ads.
Look at it this way: How would you feel if you walked into the office every day and your boss made you pledge allegiance to the flag?
Ineffective?? Name one person who wasn't involved in a police shooting that has been ground zero for racial inequality conversation over the last decade.
If it was a condition of my employment, I would either do it or find another job.
Yep. You don't like it then either quit or suck it up.
Thing is, aside from perhaps the now-deposed Jeff Fisher no coach/team made standing for the anthem a requirement.
But in the event it was, I'd weigh how much the issue mattered to me vis a vis how well I was being paid. At some point you can use a large paycheck to protest or shed light on an unjust situation in other ways.
Part of what bothers me is people being so sensitive over his form of protest. Where and when should he protest that won't bother the fragile sensibilities of these folks - theoretically any place they'd see it would be too much for them.
Quit watching pro football!
College is way more fun, and exciting anyways
The name " national", tends to insinuate it's a patriotic organization, so rename it to professional football league.
That's all it is anyways
What if they stop playing the anthem, what would the protesters do then
My question would be what if this spills over to college football?
College is way more fun, and exciting anyways
The name " national", tends to insinuate it's a patriotic organization, so rename it to professional football league.
That's all it is anyways
What if they stop playing the anthem, what would the protesters do then
My question would be what if this spills over to college football?
I'm sure it will spill over eventually. I don't care a bit. It won't make me like it any less.
It might bother me if they were like, "nah, just can't be bothered, I'm playing candy crush" or something, but they're giving they're reasons for it, and I think the reasons are sincere.
Maybe I should have said inefficient? From the little I've paid attention to this, nobody is better off because of him kneeling(other than espn?). Yes it started a conversation but it was usually the wrong conversation related to (un)patriotism not racial relations. Can't fault him for trying to better the current climate but I think there were better ways to go about it.
- I believe you should stand
- I believe you have the right to not stand if that is your choice
- I believe if you are required to stand while at work, then you stand; if not, pay the consequences set forth from your employer, if that means you are fired, then that's on you.
- I believe the media outlets who report on the NFL are the true decisions makers as to whether this topic gets discussed. They have the ultimate control. Not the NFL, not the owners, not the players. It's only news worthy if it's on the news.
For me its simple: While I believe he should have stood, he didn't and thats his right. It's also the right of NFL owners not to give his ass a job, so whats the problem?
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