Bail DENIED. Trial set for September. I seriously doubt that happens, but she’s in the slammer until this is over. OUCH.
Yearly article- Tallahassee man missing (Mike Williams)
- Thread starter GwinnettNole
- Start date
Evidence must be damning.
Judges hear BS every day. They get pretty good at sniffing things out. Kind of like a parent hearing their 5th child explain why he/she missed curfew, smells like beer, whatever. They have seen and heard it all. And this woman portrays HORRIBLY.
Miss Denise finds herself in quite the pickle here. The current judge on the case is a lifetime prosecutor, so that can’t be helpful to her. The murmur in the community has long been that she is guilty as hell, but (previously) the state could not prove it. Case investigators never/ever believed her story, and are on record talking about what a cold witch Denise is. So they have some personal interest in taking her down. God only knows what other information Winchester has shared with prosecutors. Will be interesting, but yesterday had to be a wake-up call to Denise and her lawyer that maybe this is going to end very poorly for her.
Someone who knows more about criminal law than I do..... when does the defense get everything the prosecution has? Have they reached the point where they have to turn all that over yet?
From someone I asked who knows first hand:
If and when the defendant requests it in writing. It's called "Demand for Discovery" and it is a continuing obligation. As more evidence is gathered, they have to submit.
But then the defense is under "Reciprocal Discovery" and has to submit their evidence to the prosecution minus the defendant's own statements.(protection against self discrimination) .
If no Demand for Discovery is requested (rarely happens), then neither side has to submit evidence.
If the prosecution is privy to information that is helpful to the defendant, they are not required to submit that (Since they obviously wouldn't use that in court).
So I would imagine sometime soon they submit that request and the evidence sharing takes place. Let's hope it's an "oh shit" moment for the defense when they see what the prosecution has.
If there is a sex tape, they should submit it to @JohnnieHolmesNole who will then send me a copy for research purposes.
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Good snippet on what happened:
"The hearing lasted more than two hours. The lengthy hearing was due to a tape of Brian Winchester being played during court. The recording documented an interview between Brian Winchester and investigators with FDLE. Brian admitted to pulling the trigger, but says the murder was Denise’s idea. Brian details the plan, the execution and the cover up of Mike's murder.
Family members at Monday’s hearing could be seen having an emotional reaction to some parts of the recording. Those there in honor of Mike were wearing pins with his picture on them."
This trial is going to be like Tallahassee's OJ case, get your popcorn ready.
I still think it would be a tough conviction if the evidence is simply Winchester's testimony that Denise conceived of the idea of killing her husband and then Winchester followed through with it. Tough business to hang a murder conviction on the testimony of a confessed killer who shot his best friend point blank in the head while he was thrashing around in freezing water. I'm assuming there's significantly more out there given that this same DA's office has yet to charge Charlie Adelson with murder.
Maybe she will get off.. But people are convicted every day from testimony like Brian's. Plus they have a strong motive and a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Speaking in general, not bashing your two opinions:
It's very easy to believe his story. He said they killed her to be together and get his life insurance - what happened? They got his life insurance and got married. What motive would Brian have to kill him if it wasn't to be with Denise and get Mike's insurance money?
She immediately tried to get him declared dead and get the insurance money.
The story fits and I'm sure the jury will use common sense.
They have:
- A strong motive for Denise to do this
- A ton of circumstantial evidence
- Her co-conspirator testifying against her
- Probably a few pieces of evidence we don't know about yet
- Denise being an unlikable witch (holding Mike's daughter hostage to Mike's mom) will also come into play whether it should be or not. It's easy to convict someone who comes off as evil. That's human nature.
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Good question.
I just looked and saw they had live streams of the Henry Segura case (quadruple murder case in Tally) on lawandcrime.com.
Along with the Rachel Hoffman story, this Mike Williams case is the biggest local story in my over 30 years in Tally. I would think it would be available to stream online somewhere.
Just check back ITT when the trial begins and myself or @JohnnieHolmesNole or @GwinnettNole or another frequenter of this thread will know. I will definitely be trying to watch.
Both Jansen and Winchester said that Denise and Brian spoke in “code” when they communicated about the murder. I think you will see some emails and texts — from recent years — that Winchester will “de-code” for the jury. Ouch. Add testimony about the wildcat affair — or maybe a sex tape — and the Princess is fried.
If Winchester’s story turns out to be bogus, his immunity deal disappears and he has then confessed to first degree murder. I tend to believe everything he has thus far said about the matter.
Me too. It was obvious what happened, and Brian only confirmed it. His story makes total sense and it's obvious that's what happened.
It would make no sense for Brian to kill Mike if the plan wasn't to be with Denise and collect insurance money. There would be no motive.
So if Brian killed Mike to be with Denise, surely Denise would know. Like you said earlier ITT, he didn't do it and just hope he could get with Denise and that's just magically what happened. He was obviously banging Denise before Mike was killed and he killed Mike to be with her and get the insurance money. Brian sold him the policy which shows what the plan was.
Denise had everything to gain - be with her lover and get rich. Brian would have nothing to gain IF they weren't in on it together. Brian gaining from Mike's death would ONLY come if Denise was in on it. It only makes sense for Brian to kill Mike if Denise was in on it and they planned to be together once he was out of the way.
My thoughts.
She knew about it and helped plan it.
He executed it.
He panicked, being the trigger man, after she filed for divorce and ran to the police to cut a deal before she did.
He skates with a 20-yr sentence for being the trigger man in a 1st degree murder, obstruction and cover-up for 17 yrs, and kidnapping/attempted murder after he abducted the co-conspirator at gun point with bottle of bleach and a tarp in the back of his car.
She will end up spending more time in jail than he will.
...i know people in prison with multiple life terms and they didn't even kill anyone
She knew about it and helped plan it.
He executed it.
He panicked, being the trigger man, after she filed for divorce and ran to the police to cut a deal before she did.
He skates with a 20-yr sentence for being the trigger man in a 1st degree murder, obstruction and cover-up for 17 yrs, and kidnapping/attempted murder after he abducted the co-conspirator at gun point with bottle of bleach and a tarp in the back of his car.
She will end up spending more time in jail than he will.
...i know people in prison with multiple life terms and they didn't even kill anyone
Four huge mistakes:
1. The rush to have Mike declared dead
2. Marrying Brian
3. Going to the cops after the kidnapping
4. Begging the judge to sentence Brian to life in prison
Agree that it is pretty obvious what happened here. The cops always suspected this, and Brian simply corroborated it.
Yep - hell, half of Tally knew that's what happened as well. He is just corroborating it. Even if you had no background on this, the story makes total sense with Brian selling him the policy and Brian and her getting married after they killed Mike. It will be easy for the jury to buy the story Brian is giving.
RE: your list of mistakes -Technically it shouldn't come in to play as far as proving guilt, but I think her keeping MIke's mom away from her grandchild since Mike's mom wouldn't "let it go" and go along with that laughable alligator story is also going to bite her in the ass. Not evidence per se, but shows her mentality and will make the jury despise her.
Yes, the exclusion of grandma is devastating, actually, and definitely should have been on the list of mistakes. She kept the girl “hostage” because grandma launched an investigation??? Huh??? Shouldn’t the WIFE have wanted an investigation too?? Oh, that’s right.....that would implicate HER. Absolutely right that the jury is going to loathe her.
It wasn't my opinion... I was legitimately asking a question. I don't live in Tally anymore and wondered if I just missed some other piece of info.
If her lawyer is good, I'm sure a bunch of stuff we know now never see the light of day in court.
It wasn't my opinion... I was legitimately asking a question. I don't live in Tally anymore and wondered if I just missed some other piece of info.
If her lawyer is good, I'm sure a bunch of stuff we know now never see the light of day in court.
The sex tape is coming in, man. Do not start some negative karma that gums that up.
And it takes one person on the jury to conclude its "not fair" that he actually committed the murder and will get less time, and refuse to convict on the murder charge. Ethan Way will likely make one argument - Brian Winchester had two years in prison to "dream up" a story that implicates his wife while at the same time "exonerating the real people he conspired with". Doesn't matter how obviously guilty she is - One juror says "maybe..", its hung jury at best.
Nothing is ever a slam dunk, but this chick is sufficiently nasty that the jury could unanimously hate her. Hoping for same.
That's the case in every murder trial, yet people are convicted all the time.
I don't think it's a slam dunk but I think they have enough and I think it's more likely the jury convicts her then her getting off.
At this point in time, I'd bet on convictions for conspiracy and accessory after the fact and acquittal on 1DM. Then the jury gives her 20 years. I don't think some people are considering how a jury is going to look at the male killer "getting away with murder" while the female conspirator who didn't actually do the deed "gets life". The immunity deal is going to be the problem for the jury.
Agreed that jurors could get hung up on the fact that the trigger man could do less time than the female accomplice. But juries don’t establish the length of a prison sentence. That is reserved for the judge. No matter what happens here, Denise’s legal problems may not be over. She may have also committed insurance fraud, and it is possible the paying insurance companies could sue her civilly for disgorgement.
Would be interested to know how the daughter is digesting all of this. This has to be difficult for her, and she obviously did not have anything to do with the underlying mess.
You may be right.
But their concern should be Denise's guilt, she is the one that is on trial. They shouldn't let her get away with murder just because he is getting immunity.
The jury will hopefully understand that it was either arrest nobody, or give him immunity and at least get 1 arrest and closure for his loved ones. BW is still going to be in prison for the next 18 years or so. It's for a different crime, but it's not like he's going home after her trial while she sits in prison. They are (hopefully) both going to be in prison for years to come.
I am hoping for a life sentence but I'll take 20 years and the scenario you mentioned. Just don't want that witch to avoid prison time.
Spot on. This is what I've been thinking.... I think there will be enough 'reasonable doubt' about murder 1 that she gets away with that. But they will, IMO, want to convict her of SOMETHING, at least based on the evidence I've heard about so far. So yes on the conspiracy adnd accessory charges, and double yes on the 20 years (but I think the judge makes that decision, not the jury). It's going to be hard to find a jury in Leon County that doesn't know all about this, wouldn't be surprised if the trial is moved elsewhere.
Is BWs sentence even admissible?
Seems illogical that if you’re trying to determine guilt or innocence that the judge would allow the defense the “...but but he pulled the trigger and only got 20 yrs” defense.
It's not logical. Logic has very little to do with what goes on in a courtroom, the defense has a VERY wide latitude in what they can say about almost ANYTHING (at least in my experience.)
The defense will ABSOLUTLEY be allowed to impeach Winchester by pointing to his immunity deal, and arguing that he was motivated to “make up the story” because Denise pushed for a life sentence on the kidnapping mess (although he only got 20). The defense will harp on the 20 year “bargain” he is receiving, despite being an admitted murderer. That will be the entire theme of the defense, and Denise will be allowed to present it.
For anyone new to this saga hoping to catch up quickly, there is a fairly comprehensive Wiki page entitled “Jerry Michael Williams Homicide.” It is a pretty solid overview.
It seems really easy to say it was all his idea the whole time... and she had no clue... and he was there for her in a time of need and ended up falling for him after the fact as a clueless, lonely, and lost mother. Especially after the lunatic kidnapped her. It seems to me they are going to paint him as a total nut job that was infatuated with her and would do anything to be with her including killing her loved husband... and even in the long run he still kidnapped her, etc.
If you take a step back and just look at the available facts she really doesn't seem like the one that did anything. All we have here is a guy with a track record of being insane, admitting to killing his best friend, kidnapping the wife of his best friend that he later married... and once she threw him to the curb he kidnapped her, and then she publicly, in court, stood up in fear and begged to keep his ass locked up. If you truly go into this with a blank slate the dude seems 100 percent at fault.
If you take a step back and just look at the available facts she really doesn't seem like the one that did anything. All we have here is a guy with a track record of being insane, admitting to killing his best friend, kidnapping the wife of his best friend that he later married... and once she threw him to the curb he kidnapped her, and then she publicly, in court, stood up in fear and begged to keep his ass locked up. If you truly go into this with a blank slate the dude seems 100 percent at fault.
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