Yearly article- Tallahassee man missing (Mike Williams)

[GwinnettNole]

I read that Denise’s mom died in February of this year, and that her dad died in 2011-ish. She apparently has 4 siblings. Not sure what those relationships are like, but, in a sick way, her parents should be glad they do not have to deal with any of this.

From what I hear the sisters are close. I remember hearing about the mother passing away just a few months ago. Isn’t it ironic that it hits the fan now, with both the parents no longer living? Probably nothing to do with anything but given this case it makes you wonder for a second...

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

From what I hear the sisters are close. I remember hearing about the mother passing away just a few months ago. Isn’t it ironic that it hits the fan now, with both the parents no longer living? Probably nothing to do with anything but given this case it makes you wonder for a second...

Did Denise have life insurance on them? I kid......sort of.

 

[Random_John]

I only say this because this is Florida and we love to let people go in this state. Is there hard, physical evidence that puts her at the murder scene or evidence that shows a direct line for conspiracy?

 

[DanC78]

I only say this because this is Florida and we love to let people go in this state. Is there hard, physical evidence that puts her at the murder scene or evidence that shows a direct line for conspiracy?

Not that the public is aware of

 

[NoleLizards]

I only say this because this is Florida and we love to let people go in this state. Is there hard, physical evidence that puts her at the murder scene or evidence that shows a direct line for conspiracy?

But, but...Casey Anthony's HOT!

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

I only say this because this is Florida and we love to let people go in this state. Is there hard, physical evidence that puts her at the murder scene or evidence that shows a direct line for conspiracy?

Plenty of people have been executed in Florida and elsewhere based solely on circumstantial evidence. I doubt that there is much “physical evidence” in this case since the events happened 17+ years ago, and there not any criminal investigation until 3-4 years after the incident. Will be fascinating to see what Winchester provides in terms of tying Denise to the murder. Whatever it was pacified the Grand Jury, although that is always a one-way process that the defendant does not participate in. Grand Juries can be induced to do basically whatever the prosecutor wants.

 

[BoNoles]

No question. He is getting a free pass from the state, so I suspect he was required to fork over all kinds of scoop that only a husband/accomplice would know. He may have specific times of phone calls that would clearly implicate Denise, and there may be texts, emails or God-knows-what that are even more damning.

I would bet a fair chunk of change that Winchester has provided way more information than simply “she was in on it.”

Was texting a thing when this took place (2000)? I seem to remember first texting around 2002, but maybe I'm wrong.

I wonder if they could still pull phone records from back then, or maybe they pulled her phone records during their initial investigation into his disappearance? If they have records of Brian and Denise talking on the phone the day before and the day he "went missing" that would certainly be good evidence to imply they were collaborating.

 

[SeaPA]

It would be so much easier for her nowadays, she could just shoot him & claim she was standing her ground.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Was texting a thing when this took place (2000)? I seem to remember first texting around 2002, but maybe I'm wrong.

I wonder if they could still pull phone records from back then, or maybe they pulled her phone records during their initial investigation into his disappearance? If they have records of Brian and Denise talking on the phone the day before and the day he "went missing" that would certainly be good evidence to imply they were collaborating.

Probably no texting in 00. I was thinking more about stuff from 14-present perhaps referencing things. Who knows? We know the Grand Jury saw and heard something that made them issue an indictment.

 

[Random_John]

Not many people texted back then. You could but it would cost you. If I remember it was $.10 a text both sent and received.

 

[BoNoles]

This happens all of the time, as unseemly as it may be. It is more common in "cold cases" like this, where, without some kind of deal/cooperation, no one will ever be punished. Tim Jansen has made some comments that seem to indicate that a deal has been made, but I guess we will see what unfolds.

Yep - I said this earlier ITT.

18 years in and no arrest.

They were at the point where they had two options.

1- Never arrest anyone
2- Make a deal with the devil and grant him immunity to at least get her.

One arrest is better than none. Without him they were not finding the body or arresting her.

I think their decision was made even easier with the fact that at least he is in prison for the next 20 years (for another crime). Their line of thought is: "Well, sucks he won't get any time for the murder when he pulled the trigger, but at least he is already in prison for the next two decades - and now we can nail the evil witch"

 

[BoNoles]

Not many people texted back then. You could but it would cost you. If I remember it was $.10 a text both sent and received.

That's what I thought. I was in High School in 2000 and remember coordinating drinking/smoking/skipping class with friends and the girlfriend via phone calls, not text. Man it would've been so much easier to coordinate those hedonistic activities via text LOL.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Yep - I said this earlier ITT.

18 years in and no arrest.

They were at the point where they had two options.

1- Never arrest anyone
2- Make a deal with the devil and grant him immunity to at least get her.

One arrest is better than none. Without him they were not finding the body or arresting her.

I think their decision was made even easier with the fact that at least he is in prison for the next 20 years (for another crime). Their line of thought is: "Well, sucks he won't get any time for the murder when he pulled the trigger, but at least he is already in prison for the next two decades - and now we can nail the evil witch"

Nailed it. I can promise you this was exactly the rationale.

 

[BoNoles]

Probably no texting in 00. I was thinking more about stuff from 14-present perhaps referencing things. Who knows? We know the Grand Jury saw and heard something that made them issue an indictment.

BW gave them the body and the story - but they didn't indict immediately. So I would imagine over the past 6 months they have picked up some additional evidence as I think you and @Buddy Green alluded to. Like you guys said, for them to get to this point, I would imagine they have something else besides just his word and circumstantial evidence. I bet they have some pieces (even if small) of other evidence they feel was enough to convict her in conjunction with his testimony and the circumstantial evidence.

As you have said, the jury is going to hate that witch. They just need something small to push it over the top.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

That's what I thought. I was in High School in 2000 and remember coordinating drinking/smoking/skipping class with friends and the girlfriend via phone calls, not text. Man it would've been so much easier to coordinate those hedonistic activities via text LOL.

Cell phones were pretty common in 92-93. “Bag phones” as early as the late 80s. Honestly not sure when texting kicked in as commonplace.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

BW gave them the body and the story - but they didn't indict immediately. So I would imagine over the past 6 months they have picked up some additional evidence as I think you and @Buddy Green alluded to. Like you guys said, for them to get to this point, I would imagine they have something else besides just his word and circumstantial evidence. I bet they have some pieces (even if small) of other evidence they feel was enough to convict her in conjunction with his testimony and the circumstantial evidence.

As you have said, the jury is going to hate that witch. They just need something small to push it over the top.

Yep. There may also be some other accessory people who have received immunity. We would not necessarily know of them (yet). This story is pretty addicting, I am sorry to say. Maybe I am the sick bastard everyone has always said I am.

 

[Manch.]

If I Remember correctly, a shotgun went missing from her home after the murder, I think the ATF was involved in the search for it. I wonder if it appeared.

 

[dero316]

Searchers focused on the 10 acres (4.0 ha) of the lake around the cove where Williams' truck was parked. His boat was soon found roughly 225 feet (69 m) from the ramp by a helicopter pilot who initially assumed it was a boat being used in the search. In it, investigators found his shotgun, still in its case, but not Williams himself.

A possible new lead emerged in October 2007, when Michael Williams' older brother found a photograph and the serial number of a .22-caliber Ruger pistol that had once belonged to their father. Michael had inherited it after his father's death, and after Michael was declared legally dead it was the only one of his firearms that Denise Williams had not returned to her former in-laws. After the Jackson County sheriff's investigator Wester asked the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to look for it, agents visited Denise and Brian Winchester, now married, in their house (the same one she had lived in with Michael) to interview them.

Several days later, their attorney delivered the gun to the FDLE. It was sent to a state forensics laboratory for DNA testing: the results have not been reported.

 

[NoleLizards]

@DFSNOLE Is it possible that the two threads about this be combined into one??

 

[321Nole]

Searchers focused on the 10 acres (4.0 ha) of the lake around the cove where Williams' truck was parked. His boat was soon found roughly 225 feet (69 m) from the ramp by a helicopter pilot who initially assumed it was a boat being used in the search. In it, investigators found his shotgun, still in its case, but not Williams himself.

A possible new lead emerged in October 2007, when Michael Williams' older brother found a photograph and the serial number of a .22-caliber Ruger pistol that had once belonged to their father. Michael had inherited it after his father's death, and after Michael was declared legally dead it was the only one of his firearms that Denise Williams had not returned to her former in-laws. After the Jackson County sheriff's investigator Wester asked the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to look for it, agents visited Denise and Brian Winchester, now married, in their house (the same one she had lived in with Michael) to interview them.

Several days later, their attorney delivered the gun to the FDLE. It was sent to a state forensics laboratory for DNA testing: the results have not been reported.

If they found the bullet in the grave they could probably match the caliber to the gun. Probably too corroded to match it to that exact gun. Not sure what that would do besides corroborate part of the confession anyways.

At this point I'm betting the only thing that REALLY points to her involvement is the fact that she actively pushed to have him declared dead so quickly.

 

[Buddy Green]

If I Remember correctly, a shotgun went missing from her home after the murder, I think the ATF was involved in the search for it. I wonder if it appeared.

Several years after Mike went missing, Mrs. Williams remembered that Mike had a shotgun that belonged to his grandfather and she didn't get it back from Denise with Mike's belongings. She contacted Denise who feigned ignorance. She contacted law enforcement who gained a search warrant for the Winchester's home. They found nothing. A month or so later, Brian and Denise surrendered the gun to BATF through their attorney. They were not able to gain anything of value from the gun at that time.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

If they found the bullet in the grave they could probably match the caliber to the gun. Probably too corroded to match it to that exact gun. Not sure what that would do besides corroborate part of the confession anyways.

At this point I'm betting the only thing that REALLY points to her involvement is the fact that she actively pushed to have him declared dead so quickly.

Quietly filing the petiton to determine him dead — within 20 days of conveniently finding the out-of-the-box new waders, in pristine condition — is devastating. I would expect Winchester to be able to specify when and where those items were purchased, and there could be receipts that would reflect same. She is cooked.

 

[Nole Daddy]

Quietly filing the petiton to determine him dead — within 20 days of conveniently finding the out-of-the-box new waders, in pristine condition — is devastating. I would expect Winchester to be able to specify when and where those items were purchased, and there could be receipts that would reflect same. She is cooked.

It is amazing how stupid people can be.

 

[Buddy Green]

[QUOTE="321At this point I'm betting the only thing that REALLY points to her involvement is the fact that she actively pushed to have him declared dead so quickly.[/QUOTE]

That and the fact that she is the beneficiary of the insurance policies. It would make no sense for Brian to kill him for the money if he wasn't already involved with Denise and if they hadn't planned it out. What would they argue, that Brian hatched a plan where he would sell Mike lucrative insurance policies, kill him, and then hope to woo his widow one day and cash in?

Dollars to donuts this doesn't go to trial. Someone else has almost assuredly backed Brian's story and can prove Denise was aware. They can try the "everybody is lying" defense, but if there's a deal to be had that involves the possibility of parole, she better take it.

 

[BoNoles]

Yep. There may also be some other accessory people who have received immunity. We would not necessarily know of them (yet). This story is pretty addicting, I am sorry to say. Maybe I am the sick bastard everyone has always said I am.

Absolutely addicting. I'm a criminology dork so this case would be fascinating regardless. But with it being a local story and growing up right down the road from Mike's mom and seeing her walking up and down Bull Headley with the look of a broken woman every week for years, it makes it even more attention grabbing. I'm so glad she can finally have closure.

I didn't get anything done the day they found his body and the evening of her indictment.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

It is amazing how stupid people can be.

Probably assumed she, a CPA, was too smart to ever be tracked down by some Bubba cops. And, frankly, maybe she was....until she made the crucial mistake of prosecuting Winchester and seeking his lifetime incarceration. That was her huge blunder that enabled the prior ones to be framed in context. Without the body and a determination Mike was shot, the prosecutors had nothing. Brian gave the state all of that.

 

[BoNoles]

Yep. There may also be some other accessory people who have received immunity. We would not necessarily know of them (yet). This story is pretty addicting, I am sorry to say. Maybe I am the sick bastard everyone has always said I am.

That's my main question now.

Someone said Mike's mom believes others were involved. But I think it's probably just the two of them - they are the only two who would've benefited from Mike being dead (They get to spend the blood money and get married).

Maybe someone helped conceal something after the fact, but I don't see how more than those 2 were involved in the initial plot / murder. You don't need more than 2 people to shoot someone so why would they involved anyone else? One person could drive his truck / boat and abandon it. They didn't need the mafia or a large group to commit this act, so why involve more people?

 

[Squirrel J.]

She definitely has to be VERY confident or VERY crazy to stick around town and go to work every day even after the body was found and she knew Brian was spilling the beans.
I'd have been on the first boat to Bali.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Personally, I think she has to roll the dice. She is HATING jail, I can promise you, and her life is basically ruined anyway. Both of her parents died in their 70s, so does she really want to rot in a pen for 10-15 years and then get out?? I say no. But we shall see.

 

[BoNoles]

That and the fact that she is the beneficiary of the insurance policies. It would make no sense for Brian to kill him for the money if he wasn't already involved with Denise and if they hadn't planned it out. What would they argue, that Brian hatched a plan where he would sell Mike lucrative insurance policies, kill him, and then hope to woo his widow one day and cash in?

Exactly. One ounce of common sense tells us she is guilty. And I think they have plenty to convict her.

They didn't arrest her 2 days after BW spilled the beans. They arrested her six months later - they have spent that time gathering additional evidence. Knowing what happened (huge advantage) I'm sure they found something, especially since they had one of the people involved helping point them in the right direction.

 

[BoNoles]

Personally, I think she has to roll the dice. She is HATING jail, I can promise you, and her life is basically ruined anyway. Both of her parents died in their 70s, so does she really want to rot in a pen for 10-15 years and then get out?? I say no. But we shall see.

I agree. I think she is going to go all in.

She will play the "it was all the big mean man, I'm the helpless innocent woman who didn't do anything wrong - they are lying" card.

Her lawyer has already started it "She isn't responsible for what Brian did".

She is an arrogant person to execute this murder plot, she will think she can beat the rap.

 

[BoNoles]

She definitely has to be VERY confident or VERY crazy to stick around town and go to work every day even after the body was found and she knew Brian was spilling the beans.
I'd have been on the first boat to Bali.

Sociopaths think they are smarter than everyone. She was incredibly brazen to execute this movie type plot in the first place, so her behavior remaining consistent makes sense.

I'm with you though, how could you hang around and look people in the face after his body was found and knowing all the whispers were about you. But she is obviously a twisted individual who is wired differently

 

[Buddy Green]

That's my main question now.

Someone said Mike's mom believes others were involved. But I think it's probably just the two of them - they are the only two who would've benefited from Mike being dead (They get to spend the blood money and get married).

Maybe someone helped conceal something after the fact, but I don't see how more than those 2 were involved in the initial plot / murder. You don't need more than 2 people to shoot someone so why would they involved anyone else? One person could drive his truck / boat and abandon it. They didn't need the mafia or a large group to commit this act, so why involve more people?

My theory has been that they convinced friends and/or family that Mike met his demise some other way, that "nobody would believe it" and that this was what was "best" for everyone. People thought they were covering up something else until they found his body and said it was murder. Everybody was locked into their stories prior to the body being recovered. I am positive detectives went back to the same people and asked if they wanted to "edit" their statements about not knowing anything. If Brian already told investigators the entire story, then those who may have lied in the past were probably thinking "fist person to tell the truth avoids prison". Just a hunch.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

Sociopaths think they are smarter than everyone. She was incredibly brazen to execute this movie type plot in the first place, so her behavior remaining consistent makes sense.

I'm with you though, how could you hang around and look people in the face after his body was found and knowing all the whispers were about you. But she is obviously a twisted individual who is wired differently

She has those crazy eyes. I guarantee you she is a wildcat in the sheets. Would not shock me if Mike was not able to keep her satisfied, prompting her to launch other agendas. If she ups her pleasure game and gets $1.75MM to boot, that may have pushed her over the edge. But clearly a bat-**** crazy unit. They are out there.

 

[GwinnettNole]

That's my main question now.

Someone said Mike's mom believes others were involved. But I think it's probably just the two of them - they are the only two who would've benefited from Mike being dead (They get to spend the blood money and get married).

Maybe someone helped conceal something after the fact, but I don't see how more than those 2 were involved in the initial plot / murder. You don't need more than 2 people to shoot someone so why would they involved anyone else? One person could drive his truck / boat and abandon it. They didn't need the mafia or a large group to commit this act, so why involve more people?

Yeah people of FDLE and who granted the insurance benefits are her primary concern.. Remember, Denise and BW parts run real deep in Tallahassee and their families were completely in the loop on the "good ol' boy" network. Something like this doesn't happen by itself. She's convinced others were involved.

 

[ericram]

Yep - I said this earlier ITT.

18 years in and no arrest.

They were at the point where they had two options.

1- Never arrest anyone
2- Make a deal with the devil and grant him immunity to at least get her.

One arrest is better than none. Without him they were not finding the body or arresting her.

I think their decision was made even easier with the fact that at least he is in prison for the next 20 years (for another crime). Their line of thought is: "Well, sucks he won't get any time for the murder when he pulled the trigger, but at least he is already in prison for the next two decades - and now we can nail the evil witch"

Safe to say that had he not been arrested for "kidnapping" her, she would have gotten away with it.

 

[BoNoles]

She has those crazy eyes. I guarantee you she is a wildcat in the sheets. Would not shock me if Mike was not able to keep her satisfied, prompting her to launch other agendas. If she ups her pleasure game and gets $1.75MM to boot, that may have pushed her over the edge. But clearly a bat-**** crazy unit. They are out there.

Absolutely - and even prison won't stop that. Denise will just switch gears and be scissoring half the women in prison.

 

[BoNoles]

Safe to say that had he not been arrested for "kidnapping" her, she would have gotten away with it.

No doubt. She got away with it for 18 years with no end in sight. Ironically her relationship with Brian was her downfall.

 

[JohnnieHolmesNole]

You (@GwinnettNole) are cooking with gas now. The good ole boy network in Leon County is very real. But the folks who might have suppressed this particular investigation are now dead, retired or otherwise losing influence. So the next (current) wave of folks may not cater to the same forces that motivated their predecessors. If Winchester sang like a canary, Willie Meggs might not even be able to ignore that.

 

[GwinnettNole]